Trayvon Martin

gimmesometruth27

hedonist wrote:

But now you're joining in on the assumption that he was a hunter, no?

We just don't know; how can we? - and commentary isn't doing anything to shed light on what happened. Opinions and speculation mean nothing with regard to the truth; to me, they are as irrelevant as this purported irrelevancy:

"Regardless of any injuries Zimmerman received that night, the evidence is irrelevant."

(I shall now stop using all forms of "irrelevance")

if he was not a hunter then what was he???

he stalked trayvon martin. he was armed, trayvon wasn't. he confronted trayvon. the outcome of this confrontation is a result of zimmerman's actions.

hedonist

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

hedonist wrote:

But now you're joining in on the assumption that he was a hunter, no?

We just don't know; how can we? - and commentary isn't doing anything to shed light on what happened. Opinions and speculation mean nothing with regard to the truth; to me, they are as irrelevant as this purported irrelevancy:

"Regardless of any injuries Zimmerman received that night, the evidence is irrelevant."

(I shall now stop using all forms of "irrelevance")

if he was not a hunter then what was he???

he stalked trayvon martin. he was armed, trayvon wasn't. he confronted trayvon. the outcome of this confrontation is a result of zimmerman's actions.

But like I said before, how can we know? How can YOU know? Anyone?

After the shit NBC pulled (and who knows how many other news outlets), I believe there's still much to be learned about this. Everything else is conjecture.

I'm neither damning nor sainting Zimmerman or Martin. I'm just saying that the truth is out there, but anyone making claims about one or the other or both, are just making suppositions, assumptions.

F5AgainstOne

I refuse to pay attention or pass judgement until AFTER all of the evidence has been fairly presented and weighed.

Let the truth prevail.


Don't forget, everybody has their own unique window into reality.

All of the stuff that you see through your window may be honest and truthful, but Just because you can't see my house through your window - it does not prove that it isn't there (nor does me saying this prove that it IS there)

Monster Rain

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

hedonist wrote:

But now you're joining in on the assumption that he was a hunter, no?

We just don't know; how can we? - and commentary isn't doing anything to shed light on what happened. Opinions and speculation mean nothing with regard to the truth; to me, they are as irrelevant as this purported irrelevancy:

"Regardless of any injuries Zimmerman received that night, the evidence is irrelevant."

(I shall now stop using all forms of "irrelevance")

if he was not a hunter then what was he???

he stalked trayvon martin. he was armed, trayvon wasn't. he confronted trayvon. the outcome of this confrontation is a result of zimmerman's actions.

What evidence do you have that he confronted Trayvon? As far as I can tell, there is no evidence to support that claim. In fact, the evidence on his 911 call seems to indicate that he stopped following Martin when asked to do so by the dispatcher and later mentioned that he no longer knew where Martin was. That would suggest that he had stopped following Martin and, therefore, was not "stalking" him and did not initiate any confrontation. It doesn't mean he didn't change his mind after hanging up, but there's no evidence of that and no evidence that he ever saw Martin again until the confrontation began (no mention during the call of anything like, "Oh, I see him again"). Maybe you've seen a report that I haven't seen that has an eyewitness seeing Zimmerman following Martin after putting his phone away or initiating the confrontation. If so, please share it. If not, then your use of terms like "stalking" and "hunting" are unfounded.

He wasn't on any sort of neighborhood watch patrol that night. He was on his way to the store when he saw Martin and became suspicious and reported him to the police. He wasn't carrying a gun "in violation of the neighborhood watch's regulations" as some have mentioned repeatedly. He was simply going to the store and carrying his gun, which he is legally entitled to do.

CNN analyzed the audio of that 911 call and determined that the widely-reported "racial epithet" that Zimmerman supposedly made during the call was actually "f-cking cold" (it was unusually chilly that night). So now we have a non-existant racial epithet being reported, edited versions of the 911 call making it seem like Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Martin was suspicious because he was black and continued following Martin against the police dispatcher's request to stop, and reports that the video showed "no indication" of any injuries that later turned out to be seen on enhanced images of the video and had already been mentioned in the police report by 2 officers who were at the scene (and an officer in the video was clearly shown checking out the head injury that ABC said didn't seem to exist). I see a ton of evidence that the media is hyping this story up as a hate crime for their own benefit rather than basing it on any actual facts. What I don't see, however, is any evidence that the initial details they reported are true--the same details that had me questioning why Zimmerman wasn't in jail being charged with murder because he was "clearly" a cold-blooded killer.

MotoDC

Johnny wrote:

Treyvon was on his way home, he didnt start following Zimmerman. I keep asking myself, how could this have been avoided? How could Treyvon still be alive? If Zimmerman hadnt gone against citizen crime watch rules.

These are good questions to ask, but not with regards to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. For starters, because you could answer those questions in favor or Zimmerman OR Trayvon, so they prove nothing. How could Trayvon still be alive? Don't wear a hoodie. Don't walk through other people's yards or neighborhoods late at night. You see what I mean -- I'm not saying those are the right answers or that black youths should ACTUALLY not wear hoodies, I'm just saying the questions you're asking are ambiguous and don't move the conversation about guilt/innocence forward.

As for gimme's articles, etc, the "hunter" label is inflammatory, disingenuous, and worst of all, makes very accusational assumptions about Zimmerman's intent. The only intent of a "hunter" with a "prey" is to kill. Using the "hunter" terminology prescribes premeditation to Zimmerman which you cannot prove. By all accounts he was a bit of a paranoid (46 calls to the cops or whatever), but even still everything we've seen indicates his intent was to protect his neighborhood.

Finally, just to be clear, Zimmerman should have been detained at least and an immediate investigation should have been launched. From this outsider's point of view, the circumstances were murky enough right off the bat to warrant at least that. The cops involved were at best derelict in their duties.

Monster Rain

MotoDC wrote:

Johnny wrote:

Treyvon was on his way home, he didnt start following Zimmerman. I keep asking myself, how could this have been avoided? How could Treyvon still be alive? If Zimmerman hadnt gone against citizen crime watch rules.

These are good questions to ask, but not with regards to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. For starters, because you could answer those questions in favor or Zimmerman OR Trayvon, so they prove nothing. How could Trayvon still be alive? Don't wear a hoodie. Don't walk through other people's yards or neighborhoods late at night. You see what I mean -- I'm not saying those are the right answers or that black youths should ACTUALLY not wear hoodies, I'm just saying the questions you're asking are ambiguous and don't move the conversation about guilt/innocence forward.

As for gimme's articles, etc, the "hunter" label is inflammatory, disingenuous, and worst of all, makes very accusational assumptions about Zimmerman's intent. The only intent of a "hunter" with a "prey" is to kill. Using the "hunter" terminology prescribes premeditation to Zimmerman which you cannot prove. By all accounts he was a bit of a paranoid (46 calls to the cops or whatever), but even still everything we've seen indicates his intent was to protect his neighborhood.

Finally, just to be clear, Zimmerman should have been detained at least and an immediate investigation should have been launched. From this outsider's point of view, the circumstances were murky enough right off the bat to warrant at least that. The cops involved were at best derelict in their duties.

I agree with what you said here, but I need to point out that Zimmerman WAS detained by police that night. The video that ABC said doesn't show any indication of any injuries was from the police station that night. He was handcuffed, taken to the station, questioned, and released.

JonnyPistachio

MotoDC wrote:

Johnny wrote:

Treyvon was on his way home, he didnt start following Zimmerman. I keep asking myself, how could this have been avoided? How could Treyvon still be alive? If Zimmerman hadnt gone against citizen crime watch rules.

These are good questions to ask, but not with regards to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. For starters, because you could answer those questions in favor or Zimmerman OR Trayvon, so they prove nothing. How could Trayvon still be alive? Don't wear a hoodie. Don't walk through other people's yards or neighborhoods late at night. You see what I mean -- I'm not saying those are the right answers or that black youths should ACTUALLY not wear hoodies, I'm just saying the questions you're asking are ambiguous and don't move the conversation about guilt/innocence forward.

As for gimme's articles, etc, the "hunter" label is inflammatory, disingenuous, and worst of all, makes very accusational assumptions about Zimmerman's intent. The only intent of a "hunter" with a "prey" is to kill. Using the "hunter" terminology prescribes premeditation to Zimmerman which you cannot prove. By all accounts he was a bit of a paranoid (46 calls to the cops or whatever), but even still everything we've seen indicates his intent was to protect his neighborhood.

Finally, just to be clear, Zimmerman should have been detained at least and an immediate investigation should have been launched. From this outsider's point of view, the circumstances were murky enough right off the bat to warrant at least that. The cops involved were at best derelict in their duties.

True, but my whole point was that Zimmerman's actions alone instigated the whole thing, and I feel a senseless death could've been avoided if Zimmerman didnt act like he did, which is simply too aggressive for my taste. thats just opinion of course -- Do you honestly think he would've gotten out of his car in the dark rain and followed Treyvon if he hadnt had a pistol?

And Monster Rain -- You're probably right about the citizens watch violations -- I assumed that if you're involved in citizens watch, then you're always a member and once you go into "following a suspect mode", and calling the cops -- I assumed that meant he was taking upon his role that he accepted as watch captain. Maybe if he's just off to target, it doesnt count for being on patrol or something.

And btw, I'm still most concerned about subtle things like the fact that Zimmerman wouldnt agree with the police operator to stay at the mailboxes and wait for the police. Might just be me, but that makes me think he was in pursuit because he didnt want to agree to stay put. I simply despise when people make up their own agenda in these scenarios -- especially since I'd be willing to bet he would've went right back to those mailboxes like the police said, had he not been carrying his gun. Its a senseless killing that could've easily been avoided.

If this was 2004, Zimmerman would likely be in jail.

gimmesometruth27

I am just using the words that we as a society have agreed upon....


HUNT-

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hunt


transitive verb
1 a: to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo>
b: to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>


2 a: to pursue with intent to capture <hunted the escapees>
b: to search out : seek


3: to drive or chase especially by harrying <members … were hunted from their homes — J. T. Adams>


4: to traverse in search of prey <hunts the woods>

intransitive verb
1: to take part in a hunt

2: to attempt to find something


3 : to oscillate alternately to each side (as of a neutral point) or to run alternately faster and slower —used especially of a device or machine


Examples of HUNT

The wolf was hunting its prey.
These birds have been hunted almost to extinction.
a gun used for hunting squirrels
He likes to hunt and fish.
She hunted around in the closet for a pair of shoes.
Police hunted the escaped prisoners through several states.


or we can use the word track if you would prefer...


TRACK
verb
Definition of TRACK


transitive verb
1 a: to follow the tracks or traces of : trail b: to search for by following evidence until found <track down the source>

2 a: to follow by vestiges : trace b: to observe or plot the moving path of (as a spacecraft or missile) often instrumentally

3: to travel over : traverse <track a desert>


4 a: to make tracks upon b: to carry (as mud) on the feet and deposit


5: to keep track of (as a trend) : follow

intransitive verb


1: travel <a comet tracking eastward>


2 aof a phonograph needle: to follow the groove undulations of a recording bof a pair of wheels (1): to maintain a constant distance apart on the straightaway (2): to fit a track or rails cof a rear wheel of a vehicle: to follow accurately the corresponding fore wheel on a straightaway


3: to leave tracks (as on a floor)

— track·ernoun


Examples of TRACK

He tracked the deer for a mile.
The detectives tracked the killer to Arizona.
The ship can track incoming missiles with radar.
Meteorologists are tracking the storm.
The study tracked the patients over the course of five years.
The squadron will track north by northeast for 40 miles.


or we could use FOLLOW, because he did follow him and DID NOT follow the suggestions of the dispatcher that they "do not need him to do that"...

FOLLOW

Definition of FOLLOW


transitive verb
1: to go, proceed, or come after <followed the guide>


2 a: to engage in as a calling or way of life : pursue <wheat-growing is generally followed here>
b: to walk or proceed along <follow a path>


3 a: to be or act in accordance with <follow directions>
b: to accept as authority : obey <followed his conscience>


4 a: to pursue in an effort to overtake
b: to seek to attain <follow knowledge>


5: to come into existence or take place as a result or consequence of <disaster followed the blunder>


6 a: to come or take place after in time, sequence, or order
b: to cause to be followed <followed dinner with a liqueur>


7: to copy after : imitate


8 a: to watch steadily <followed the flight of the ball>
b: to keep the mind on <follow a speech>
c: to attend closely to : keep abreast of <followed his career with interest>
d: to understand the sense or logic of (as a line of thought)

intransitive verb

1: to go or come after a person or thing in place, time, or sequence


2: to result or occur as a consequence, effect, or inference

— as follows


: as comes next —used impersonally

— follow one's nose


1: to go in a straight or obvious course


2: to proceed without plan or reflection : obey one's instincts

— follow suit


1: to play a card of the same suit as the card led


2: to follow an example set

Examples of FOLLOW

She followed us into the kitchen.
The dog followed the children home.
The exit is right this way. Just follow me.
The children went home and the dog followed behind.
If one sheep goes through the gate, the rest will follow.
The number 15 follows 14.
Her accident was followed by a long period of recovery.
First came the student speeches, and the presentation of awards followed.
Rioting followed the unjust verdict.
If you work hard, success will surely follow.


you can not deny that zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed him, tracked him, or hunted him. if he had stayed in his truck martin would be alive today and none of this would be happening.

drinkbigredinstead

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

I am just using the words that we as a society have agreed upon....


HUNT-

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hunt


transitive verb
1 a: to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo>
b: to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>


2 a: to pursue with intent to capture <hunted the escapees>
b: to search out : seek


3: to drive or chase especially by harrying <members … were hunted from their homes — J. T. Adams>


4: to traverse in search of prey <hunts the woods>

intransitive verb
1: to take part in a hunt

2: to attempt to find something


3 : to oscillate alternately to each side (as of a neutral point) or to run alternately faster and slower —used especially of a device or machine


Examples of HUNT

The wolf was hunting its prey.
These birds have been hunted almost to extinction.
a gun used for hunting squirrels
He likes to hunt and fish.
She hunted around in the closet for a pair of shoes.
Police hunted the escaped prisoners through several states.


or we can use the word track if you would prefer...


TRACK
verb
Definition of TRACK


transitive verb
1 a: to follow the tracks or traces of : trail b: to search for by following evidence until found <track down the source>

2 a: to follow by vestiges : trace b: to observe or plot the moving path of (as a spacecraft or missile) often instrumentally

3: to travel over : traverse <track a desert>


4 a: to make tracks upon b: to carry (as mud) on the feet and deposit


5: to keep track of (as a trend) : follow

intransitive verb


1: travel <a comet tracking eastward>


2 aof a phonograph needle: to follow the groove undulations of a recording bof a pair of wheels (1): to maintain a constant distance apart on the straightaway (2): to fit a track or rails cof a rear wheel of a vehicle: to follow accurately the corresponding fore wheel on a straightaway


3: to leave tracks (as on a floor)

— track·ernoun


Examples of TRACK

He tracked the deer for a mile.
The detectives tracked the killer to Arizona.
The ship can track incoming missiles with radar.
Meteorologists are tracking the storm.
The study tracked the patients over the course of five years.
The squadron will track north by northeast for 40 miles.


or we could use FOLLOW, because he did follow him and DID NOT follow the suggestions of the dispatcher that they "do not need him to do that"...

FOLLOW

Definition of FOLLOW


transitive verb
1: to go, proceed, or come after <followed the guide>


2 a: to engage in as a calling or way of life : pursue <wheat-growing is generally followed here>
b: to walk or proceed along <follow a path>


3 a: to be or act in accordance with <follow directions>
b: to accept as authority : obey <followed his conscience>


4 a: to pursue in an effort to overtake
b: to seek to attain <follow knowledge>


5: to come into existence or take place as a result or consequence of <disaster followed the blunder>


6 a: to come or take place after in time, sequence, or order
b: to cause to be followed <followed dinner with a liqueur>


7: to copy after : imitate


8 a: to watch steadily <followed the flight of the ball>
b: to keep the mind on <follow a speech>
c: to attend closely to : keep abreast of <followed his career with interest>
d: to understand the sense or logic of (as a line of thought)

intransitive verb

1: to go or come after a person or thing in place, time, or sequence


2: to result or occur as a consequence, effect, or inference

— as follows


: as comes next —used impersonally

— follow one's nose


1: to go in a straight or obvious course


2: to proceed without plan or reflection : obey one's instincts

— follow suit


1: to play a card of the same suit as the card led


2: to follow an example set

Examples of FOLLOW

She followed us into the kitchen.
The dog followed the children home.
The exit is right this way. Just follow me.
The children went home and the dog followed behind.
If one sheep goes through the gate, the rest will follow.
The number 15 follows 14.
Her accident was followed by a long period of recovery.
First came the student speeches, and the presentation of awards followed.
Rioting followed the unjust verdict.
If you work hard, success will surely follow.


you can not deny that zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed him, tracked him, or hunted him. if he had stayed in his truck martin would be alive today and none of this would be happening.

We get it, you want Zimmerman to go to jail.

I will wait until the all the facts are out.

gimmesometruth27

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

We get it, you want Zimmerman to go to jail.

I will wait until the all the facts are out.

no, i want him arrested and tried. that way the evidence will be presented. as of now shit is being altered and edited, or outright kept under wraps, and is being presented in a less than forthright manner. if he is found not guilty by a jury of his peers so be it. if he is convicted then so be it. but the process has broken down in this case. let him defend himself in a court of law. do not leave the families of both parties hanging.

Monster Rain

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not deny that zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed him, tracked him, or hunted him. if he had stayed in his truck martin would be alive today and none of this would be happening.

I'm just asking for one thing (police report, eyewitness account, etc.) that says someone saw Zimmerman following Martin after he got off the phone with the police. You're so sure it happened, I'd just like to see what it is that makes you and others so sure that it happened. Yes, he did get out of the truck and start following him when he called the police but he also agreed to stop following him and later said that he didn't want to say where he lived because he didn't see where Martin went and didnt' want him to overhear his address. So at that point, he was no longer following Martin and was no longer a threat unless he spotted him again and followed or confronted him at that point. If it turns out to be the case that he did start the fight, then he's guilty and I hope he's tried and convicted. I just can't be sure that it happened that way, though, because there has literally been nothing reported that could even remotely be considered evidence of it.

norm

we will probably never know what happened because of the main witnesses is dead

JonnyPistachio

Monster Rain wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not deny that zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed him, tracked him, or hunted him. if he had stayed in his truck martin would be alive today and none of this would be happening.

I'm just asking for one thing (police report, eyewitness account, etc.) that says someone saw Zimmerman following Martin after he got off the phone with the police. You're so sure it happened, I'd just like to see what it is that makes you and others so sure that it happened. Yes, he did get out of the truck and start following him when he called the police but he also agreed to stop following him and later said that he didn't want to say where he lived because he didn't see where Martin went and didnt' want him to overhear his address. So at that point, he was no longer following Martin and was no longer a threat unless he spotted him again and followed or confronted him at that point. If it turns out to be the case that he did start the fight, then he's guilty and I hope he's tried and convicted. I just can't be sure that it happened that way, though, because there has literally been nothing reported that could even remotely be considered evidence of it.

Yes, nobody seems to know if he continued to pursue after that.
You definitely seem to have a well balanced outlook on most of this Monster. Im trying my best to remain neutral. its tough though, because I know that if it was 2004 he would've been arrested.

I know we've been through this before, but what would you have done if at the end of the call to police and they told you to go back to your car by the mailboxes and wait for police to arrive?

Remember Zimmerman said, "that's fine..." oh wait!, nevermind, "have them call me when they arrive." So he had no plans to go back to his car. I know this is conjecture, but it angers me that Zimmerman could follow directions. Then he killed someone.

JonnyPistachio

im also really surprised nobody has released Zimmerman's injury photos. If its as bad as he says, it might save him from some vigilante shit.

Monster Rain

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

We get it, you want Zimmerman to go to jail.

I will wait until the all the facts are out.

no, i want him arrested and tried. that way the evidence will be presented. as of now shit is being altered and edited, or outright kept under wraps, and is being presented in a less than forthright manner. if he is found not guilty by a jury of his peers so be it. if he is convicted then so be it. but the process has broken down in this case. let him defend himself in a court of law. do not leave the families of both parties hanging.

A trial would be a waste of money at this point. Without more evidence, there is no chance of a conviction. The only evidnece right now points to Zimmerman getting beaten up and firing his gun in self-defense. How can they file charges when the only evidence available at the moment points to his innocence? Why spend money and time on a case you know will be lost? What good will that do? People who think he's guilty will still think he's guilty and will be angry when he's not convicted. It won't quiet the calls of racial inequity in the justice system that the media, Sharpton, and Jackson are preaching right now. People who think he's innocent will be angry that time and money were wasted on a trial that was held solely for PR puroses (and would be a failure even on that front). Federal and state agencies are investigating the case and if they find anything that suggests a trial is warranted then there will be a trial. Until then, we shouldn't assume anyone is guilty without more evidence.

JonnyPistachio

Monster Rain wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

We get it, you want Zimmerman to go to jail.

I will wait until the all the facts are out.

no, i want him arrested and tried. that way the evidence will be presented. as of now shit is being altered and edited, or outright kept under wraps, and is being presented in a less than forthright manner. if he is found not guilty by a jury of his peers so be it. if he is convicted then so be it. but the process has broken down in this case. let him defend himself in a court of law. do not leave the families of both parties hanging.

A trial would be a waste of money at this point. Without more evidence, there is no chance of a conviction. The only evidnece right now points to Zimmerman getting beaten up and firing his gun in self-defense. How can they file charges when the only evidence available at the moment points to his innocence? Why spend money and time on a case you know will be lost? What good will that do? People who think he's guilty will still think he's guilty and will be angry when he's not convicted. It won't quiet the calls of racial inequity in the justice system that the media, Sharpton, and Jackson are preaching right now. People who think he's innocent will be angry that time and money were wasted on a trial that was held solely for PR puroses (and would be a failure even on that front). Federal and state agencies are investigating the case and if they find anything that suggests a trial is warranted then there will be a trial. Until then, we shouldn't assume anyone is guilty without more evidence.

I agree with this. Unless he has zero substantial physical injuries.
Otherwise it would be a waste.

However, its time to re-think the Stand your ground laws.

Monster Rain

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not deny that zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed him, tracked him, or hunted him. if he had stayed in his truck martin would be alive today and none of this would be happening.

I'm just asking for one thing (police report, eyewitness account, etc.) that says someone saw Zimmerman following Martin after he got off the phone with the police. You're so sure it happened, I'd just like to see what it is that makes you and others so sure that it happened. Yes, he did get out of the truck and start following him when he called the police but he also agreed to stop following him and later said that he didn't want to say where he lived because he didn't see where Martin went and didnt' want him to overhear his address. So at that point, he was no longer following Martin and was no longer a threat unless he spotted him again and followed or confronted him at that point. If it turns out to be the case that he did start the fight, then he's guilty and I hope he's tried and convicted. I just can't be sure that it happened that way, though, because there has literally been nothing reported that could even remotely be considered evidence of it.

Yes, nobody seems to know if he continued to pursue after that.
You definitely seem to have a well balanced outlook on most of this Monster. Im trying my best to remain neutral. its tough though, because I know that if it was 2004 he would've been arrested.

I know we've been through this before, but what would you have done if at the end of the call to police and they told you to go back to your car by the mailboxes and wait for police to arrive?
Remember Zimmerman said, "that's fine..." oh wait!, nevermind, "have them call me when they arrive." So he had no plans to go back to his car. I know this is conjecture, but it angers me that Zimmerman could follow directions. Then he killed someone.

I'm not really sure how clos ehis truck was to the mailboxes. If it wasn't that close, I would have told the dispatcher that I'll be in my truck and asked how close the police were to arriving so I could try to judge if I would actually be back at my car when they arrived or if I'd still be on my way to it (I'm not really sure how long of a walk it was to his truck from where he was standing during the call). Unfortunately, we may never know if he was heading back to his truck at the time of the altercation or if he was still standing around outside or if he was walking back to where he last saw Martin. It seems like the only chance we have of knowing that at this point is if someone in the neighborhood has home surveilance cameras on their porperty that captured Zimmerman, Martin or both with a time stamp.

unsung

JonnyPistachio wrote:

However, its time to re-think the Stand your ground laws.

No it isn't.

drinkbigredinstead

unsung wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

However, its time to re-think the Stand your ground laws.

No it isn't.

maj4e

Right so everytime someone steps on your toe you can just kill them. That's what this stupid law is turning in to.