Trayvon Martin

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

shadow...i think only the vague one about a swing at a bus driver. the other stuff (weed bag, suspension from school) i'm pretty sure they got from someone in the school.

The TMZ effect.

RW81233

shadowcast wrote:

Great article by Richard Roeper

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html

even though i remain very skeptical of zimmerman and would like answers this article is a nice find

norm

yeah, i really don't understand focusing on what martin did or has done...from what we know, zimmerman instigated all of this...he bears all responsibility for this

Monster Rain

norm wrote:

yeah, i really don't understand focusing on what martin did or has done...from what we know, zimmerman instigated all of this...he bears all responsibility for this

But we dont' really know that at all. The initial reports indicated that was the case, but other reports contradict that so what makes one version of events more believable than the other besides the fact that we got one version before the other? Zimmerman called 911 and followed him, but we don't actually know if he kept following him or turned around after the 911 Operator told him he shouldn't follow him. If he was walking away and Martin decided to come up from behind and sucker-punch him and try to grab his gun, then it's a completely different story than what was initially reported. There's no reason to rush to judment until we know more.

mikepegg44

RW81233 wrote:

6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.

if you have a broken nose I don't care how big you are...unless you are trained, and even if you are, you very well may be completely debilitated. I have seen it happen to professional fighters in sparring sessions I was involved in, seen it in fights. it happens. people lose all composure and ability when that nose goes boom. Size really isn't an indicator of what will happen in a fight. Size is an inherent advantage if you can use it, show me this guy has anything but a cursory knowledge of krav maga or some shit like that and I would be shocked if he would have felt compelled to use a gun, so I think we can assume he is untrained...and that size difference is all but nullified if someone's nose is broken.
that is, if his nose was actually broken as i have heard and read...he probably wouldn't have been able to see well, and the amount of blood that comes from a broken nose is staggering...
but that is kind of off topic in a way.

I don't think it is safe to assume anything about what happened. Unfortunately irresponsible behavior by most people involved have created a monster. I just hope we can put this Frankenstein to bed before the villagers step out with pitch forks and string him up, we already are to the point now where a predominately African american organization promotes behavior that they purport to hate when their enemy does it.



sad....the whole thing is maddening and very sad

RW81233

mikepegg44 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.

if you have a broken nose I don't care how big you are...unless you are trained, and even if you are, you very well may be completely debilitated. I have seen it happen to professional fighters in sparring sessions I was involved in, seen it in fights. it happens. people lose all composure and ability when that nose goes boom. Size really isn't an indicator of what will happen in a fight. Size is an inherent advantage if you can use it, show me this guy has anything but a cursory knowledge of krav maga or some shit like that and I would be shocked if he would have felt compelled to use a gun, so I think we can assume he is untrained...and that size difference is all but nullified if someone's nose is broken.
that is, if his nose was actually broken as i have heard and read...he probably wouldn't have been able to see well, and the amount of blood that comes from a broken nose is staggering...
but that is kind of off topic in a way.

I don't think it is safe to assume anything about what happened. Unfortunately irresponsible behavior by most people involved have created a monster. I just hope we can put this Frankenstein to bed before the villagers step out with pitch forks and string him up, we already are to the point now where a predominately African american organization promotes behavior that they purport to hate when their enemy does it.



sad....the whole thing is maddening and very sad

yeah i see now...super sad, and things need to be resolved some way

JonnyPistachio

RW81233 wrote:

shadowcast wrote:

Great article by Richard Roeper

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html

even though i remain very skeptical of zimmerman and would like answers this article is a nice find

IT was a good article.

"This is what we actually do know. if Zimmerman had been armed with nothing more than, say, a flashlight, mace and communications devices, Martin is still alive today. If Zimmerman had listened to the 911 dispatcher who said Zimmerman didn’t need to pursue Martin, the teenager is still alive today.

There’s no reason to doubt the sincerity of Zimmerman’s friends when they say the man is devastated by the tragic events of Feb. 26. And there’s every reason to advocate that everyone take a deep breath and condemn the vigilante mentality that has “The New Black Panther Party” idiotically placing a $10,000 bounty for the “capture” of a man who is not a fugitive and Louis Farrakhan saying “soon, very soon, the law of retaliation may . . . be applied.”

But I’m still waiting for someone to lay out a chain of events that would justify Zimmerman killing Martin."

******

I'd like to pretend Zimmerman only had a flashlight and his cell that night. He probably would've never even gotten out of his car. He would've been too scared. And even if he did get out of his car and confront Treyvon, he would've simple got his ass kicked.

Zimmerman having a gun was the first problem. his Dirty Harry attitude was the second problem.
Now his problem is the lynch mobs. It is sad all the way around.

Blockhead

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

polaris_x

Blockhead wrote:

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

why did he pursue when he was told not to?

Monster Rain

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

why did he pursue when he was told not to?

It's an assumption that he continued to follow, not a known fact.

norm

Monster Rain wrote:

norm wrote:

yeah, i really don't understand focusing on what martin did or has done...from what we know, zimmerman instigated all of this...he bears all responsibility for this

But we dont' really know that at all. The initial reports indicated that was the case, but other reports contradict that so what makes one version of events more believable than the other besides the fact that we got one version before the other? Zimmerman called 911 and followed him, but we don't actually know if he kept following him or turned around after the 911 Operator told him he shouldn't follow him. If he was walking away and Martin decided to come up from behind and sucker-punch him and try to grab his gun, then it's a completely different story than what was initially reported. There's no reason to rush to judment until we know more.

we know he followed martin even when he was told not to...that is what i mean by instigating...my point is, from what i'm reading, there are people focusing too much on what martin did upon being followed...he would be alive today if zimmerman hadn't had followed him...unless this is completely refuted with proof, i believe zimmerman should be held responsible for at the very least, involuntary manslaughter

polaris_x

Monster Rain wrote:

It's an assumption that he continued to follow, not a known fact.

please listen to the 911 call ... the dispatcher asks him: "are you following him!?" and he answers: "yes" ... right before he says "these guys always get away" ...

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

Blockhead wrote:

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

why did he pursue when he was told not to?

Oh were you there?

Monster Rain

polaris_x wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

It's an assumption that he continued to follow, not a known fact.

please listen to the 911 call ... the dispatcher asks him: "are you following him!?" and he answers: "yes" ... right before he says "these guys always get away" ...

When he answered "yes" to that question, the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that" and he replied, "Ok." He stayed on the line with the dispatcher after that and the dispatcher asked for his address. He started to answer and then stopped because he said he didn't know where Martin was and didn't want him to know where he lives. If he was still following him, then why didn't he know where he was anymore and why did he continue trying to let the operator know where he was so the police could meet him? There was no further mention of following Martin after he said, "Ok." So how does that call prove that he kept following him after being asked to stop?

Blockhead

polaris_x wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

It's an assumption that he continued to follow, not a known fact.

please listen to the 911 call ... the dispatcher asks him: "are you following him!?" and he answers: "yes" ... right before he says "these guys always get away" ...

If you listen to the 9-11 tapes Zimmerman tells the dispatcher that Martin was coming towards him and was eyeing him. Besides, the dispatcher only suggested that he not confront Martin, it was not an order nor was it legally binding. There is no law forbidding you to follow someone you don't know

polaris_x

Monster Rain wrote:

When he answered "yes" to that question, the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that" and he replied, "Ok." He stayed on the line with the dispatcher after that and the dispatcher asked for his address. He started to answer and then stopped because he said he didn't know where Martin was and didn't want him to know where he lives. If he was still following him, then why didn't he know where he was anymore and why did he continue trying to let the operator know where he was so the police could meet him? There was no further mention of following Martin after he said, "Ok." So how does that call prove that he kept following him after being asked to stop?

i listened to another call and what you say is true - the one i listened to originally didn't have the last bit ... it also sounds like zimmerman was afraid of trayvon which would lead me to speculate that wherever he was parked trayvon came upon him ...

Godfather.

just courious....who and how many believe Zimmerman is guilty of murder ?..straight up guilty of capital murder and why," not to debate or argue anybodys opinion" just to see how many people believe Zimmerman is guilty with only the evidense given to us by the media.


Godfather.

Monster Rain

polaris_x wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

When he answered "yes" to that question, the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that" and he replied, "Ok." He stayed on the line with the dispatcher after that and the dispatcher asked for his address. He started to answer and then stopped because he said he didn't know where Martin was and didn't want him to know where he lives. If he was still following him, then why didn't he know where he was anymore and why did he continue trying to let the operator know where he was so the police could meet him? There was no further mention of following Martin after he said, "Ok." So how does that call prove that he kept following him after being asked to stop?

i listened to another call and what you say is true - the one i listened to originally didn't have the last bit ... it also sounds like zimmerman was afraid of trayvon which would lead me to speculate that wherever he was parked trayvon came upon him ...

I know, the reporting of this case is very frustrating. Edited versions of calls are being played on the news because it fits the story better to end the call with the dispatcher saying, "We don't need you to do that." When I first heard about this case I was 100% sure that Zimmerman killed Martin in cold blood. There was no mention of a struggle, there were mentions that Martin was crying out for help (and now there are reports that it was Zimmerman screaming for help, not Martin), and there was seemingly no effort made to present anything that might indicate Zimmerman was really acting in self-defense when he was shot nor was there anything said to contradict the assumption that someone named George Zimmerman was anything but 100% white. Now, there's stuff coming out that contradicts early reports or sheds new light on previously reported information and it's impossible to tell what's true and what's not. On top of that, the media is seeking out school records that are supposed to be private. I get the feeling that this story went from being about making sure justice was carried out whatever the outcome to being just another feeding frenzy for the sharks in the press that only care about getting the next scoop on everyone else even though nobody really gives a crap who got the information first anymore since it'll be all over the Internet and cable news within 5 minutes of the first report anyway. Racial tension in a news story equals ratings and when there's a death tossed into the mix then it becomes a gold mine and they'll keep it going for as long as they can without a care in the world about how their reporting will impact others. Tayvon's family has to explain why their dead son was suspended from school, as if they don't have enough to deal with right now. Zimmerman has a bounty on him from the New Black Panthers and he may not have even done anything wrong for all anyone really knows. As long as the papers keep flying off the newsstands, viewers keep tuning in for the latest new bit of leaked information, and the websites keep getting hits nothing else matters.

ComeToTX

Godfather. wrote:

just courious....who and how many believe Zimmerman is guilty of murder ?..straight up guilty of capital murder and why," not to debate or argue anybodys opinion" just to see how many people believe Zimmerman is guilty with only the evidense given to us by the media.


Godfather.

No. Not murder. I'd say manslaughter.

cowboypjfan

http://1xrun.com/runs/Stand_Our_Ground

A poster sale to benefit Trayvon Martin...