Trayvon Martin

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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    vduboise wrote:

    I think the police bungled it in that they closed the case very quickly without looking at the shooters background and doing a drug/alcohol test on him. They did it for Martin, but not for the guy who killed him?

    Do they give those tests to the police after a shooting incident?

    Looking at his background, could give an indication if he was a prone to violence and losing his temper. The police told him to say away from Martin, and he took matters into his own hands.They should have charged him and let a jury decide.

    And I'm not saying racism is involved- between Zimmerman and Martin- I don't think there was.

    The police office recommended a manslaughter charge. What more do you want? It was the state's attorney that decided not to file charges based on a lack of evidence.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,840
    RW81233 wrote:
    6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.

    This is getting crazy, but I'll participate. Pretty sure Martin's reach was a bit longer, one unsuspecting punch and a guy goes down, there goes any advantage he had to start.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,315
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    obviously, there are a lot of factors beyond weight and height that goes into who wins a fight ... all i'm saying is nothing points to zimmerman being some passive guy ...

    on another note ... aren't you only supposed to call 911 in life threatening situations ... i know it's not what is the heart of the story but seriously, you should get in trouble for consistently calling 911 in non-life threatening situations ... obviously, it became a life threatening situation because he chose to follow trayvon but that's another point ...
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,029
    polaris_x wrote:

    on another note ... aren't you only supposed to call 911 in life threatening situations ... i know it's not what is the heart of the story but seriously, you should get in trouble for consistently calling 911 in non-life threatening situations ... obviously, it became a life threatening situation because he chose to follow trayvon but that's another point ...

    I don't think that's true. There was a massive car fire by my apartment last weekend and I called 911 to report it. It's for any emergency. Was this an emergency? Probably not, unless he was really doing something wrong which signs point to he wasn't.
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    i think that a lot of people have a lot to lose here and this is why we are getting such a muddled picture right now. most of the info on trayvon has been collected illegally and is highly irrelevant. Why has it come out? Who has the money and power to protect themselves from trouble?

    On top of this let me get this straight a kid with no history of violence is going to be followed and scared and then take the fight to a guy unprovoked? The hunter became the hunted? Seems a little far-fetched unless you're looking for an alternative.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    RW81233 wrote:
    6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.
    Are serious?? Have you ever gotten into a fight before? If Zimmerman had a broken nose then Martin got a money shot on him and dropped him. Having the higher ground (being taller) is very key. I have seen plenty of bigger dudes get dropped but someone 50-70 pound lighter. It can happen and does happen.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    I don't think that's true. There was a massive car fire by my apartment last weekend and I called 911 to report it. It's for any emergency. Was this an emergency? Probably not, unless he was really doing something wrong which signs point to he wasn't.

    a car fire can most definitely lead to a life threatening situation ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    this from Vancouver Police department ...

    Emergency?
    Call 911

    911 is to be used only for emergencies (police, fire or medical) where an immediate response is required – when there is an emergency and lives are in danger, immediate action is required or there is a crime in progress.

    Most calls to 911 ARE NOT of an emergency nature and an immediate response IS NOT required.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    edited March 2012
    polaris_x wrote:
    obviously, there are a lot of factors beyond weight and height that goes into who wins a fight ... all i'm saying is nothing points to zimmerman being some passive guy ...
    I never really heard any follow up to this story but did Martin swing on a bus driver? If so was it a male or female bus driver? Reason I mention this is because that doesn't paint Maritn to be a passive guy.
    Post edited by shadowcast on
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    RW81233 wrote:
    i think that a lot of people have a lot to lose here and this is why we are getting such a muddled picture right now. most of the info on trayvon has been collected illegally and is highly irrelevant. Why has it come out? Who has the money and power to protect themselves from trouble?

    On top of this let me get this straight a kid with no history of violence is going to be followed and scared and then take the fight to a guy unprovoked? The hunter became the hunted? Seems a little far-fetched unless you're looking for an alternative.

    We don't know that Martin has no history of violence. We just know that he has no history of violence that resulted in his arrest or suspension from school (as far as we know). Wasn't there a tweet from Martin's cousin that referenced him taking a swing at a bus driver? Don't take this a me saying Zimmerman's account of the events is the truth, I'm just saying that we really have no idea one way or the other.
  • Indifference
    Indifference Posts: 2,761
    polaris_x wrote:
    on another note ... aren't you only supposed to call 911 in life threatening situations ... i know it's not what is the heart of the story but seriously, you should get in trouble for consistently calling 911 in non-life threatening situations ... obviously, it became a life threatening situation because he chose to follow trayvon but that's another point ...

    I believe Zimmerman called the non-emergency line to report a suspicious person not 911.

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  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    I think the major thing here Monster is that there's really no reason for us to know anything about Martin b/c these records are both irrelevant and supposed to be protected because he's a minor. So the question needs to be raised why do we know this stuff about him?
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    polaris_x wrote:
    this from Vancouver Police department ...

    Emergency?
    Call 911

    911 is to be used only for emergencies (police, fire or medical) where an immediate response is required – when there is an emergency and lives are in danger, immediate action is required or there is a crime in progress.

    Most calls to 911 ARE NOT of an emergency nature and an immediate response IS NOT required.

    There are penalties for calling 911 in non-emergency situations and if Zimmerman had called 40+ times for something the police considered non-emergency situations he surely would have had to at least pay a fine long before he got to the 40th call.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    RW81233 wrote:
    I think the major thing here Monster is that there's really no reason for us to know anything about Martin b/c these records are both irrelevant and supposed to be protected because he's a minor. So the question needs to be raised why do we know this stuff about him?
    Did he post it on social media?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Monster Rain wrote:
    There are penalties for calling 911 in non-emergency situations and if Zimmerman had called 40+ times for something the police considered non-emergency situations he surely would have had to at least pay a fine long before he got to the 40th call.

    yeah ... that's what i thought ... sorry for derailing ... back to topic ... :)
  • RW81233
    RW81233 Posts: 2,393
    shadow...i think only the vague one about a swing at a bus driver. the other stuff (weed bag, suspension from school) i'm pretty sure they got from someone in the school.
  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    RW81233 wrote:
    I think the major thing here Monster is that there's really no reason for us to know anything about Martin b/c these records are both irrelevant and supposed to be protected because he's a minor. So the question needs to be raised why do we know this stuff about him?

    I agree that his school records never should have been leaked and nothing I've read about them indicates that they were relevent at all. Twitter, however, is not protected that way. Anything you tweet is out there for the world to see and I do think that allegedly swinging at a bus driver is relevent when people say things like they don't believe Zimmerman's version because Martin has no history of violence. There are too many assumptions in statements like that. I just think it's best to withhold judgment of both parties until the full details are known (any eyewitnesses, what the angle of the bullet wound says about the position of the 2 people, etc.). Some people want to assume Martin's guilty based on the leak of Zimmerman's account and that's no better than people jumping to the conclusion that Zimmerman's guilty based on the initial news reports.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    Great article by Richard Roeper

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,029
    I haven't read all of this since I dropped out of the conversation a while ago, but even if Martin did take a swing at Zimmerman after he was followed and, I am sure, aggressively approached by a person who is not the authorities, he has every fucking right to and that doesn't mean you have the right to shoot him. Shit, you are damn fucking right if I were being followed randomly while on my way home from the store and someone in street clothes gets out of the car and comes at me, that I would take a swing in about 2 seconds.

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