Santorum wants to ban hard-core pornography

pandora

haffajappa wrote:

pandora wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

We all know rape didn't happen until the dawn of widespread access to pornographic entertainment.

:?
of course rape has been around as long as men right ... is what you are saying :?

Through the guise of sarcasm... Yes.

ah yes sarcasm ... not to good at that ...

keeponrockin

Tritone wrote:

It's not ok to portray rape.

Would you say the same about murder? Cause if so, hollywood/TV shows are in trouble.

Look, I don't think it's a great thing either, in fact, I think it's gross, but it's not for me to decide what two consenting adults do for a living.

USARAY

Example
Speaking of murder, what would be said about legalized hunting of humans?
If they both consent? Talk about demoralizing our society and the value of human life.

It is a matter of morality and yes somethings people know are immoral
like sexual violence the rape of women and children
raping a defenseless animal the very things many here think as gross and disgusting
and know are immoral cause they are!

So how can portraying and condoning it in a society ever be right?
This in the guise of the very noble freedom of speech. Based in the fear
of losing ones personal rights, we allow heinous to continue.
Rape is never noble and should be abolished not revered.
Passing laws forbidding the depiction of the cruel ravaging of other human beings
and natures counterpart will begin the fight against rape that has been long since
due.
Just cause rape has been around since he beginning of time
doesn't mean we have to endure it until the end of time.

keeponrockin

Tritone wrote:

Example
Speaking of murder, what would be said about legalized hunting of humans?
If they both consent? Talk about demoralizing our society and the value of human life.

It is a matter of morality and yes somethings people know are immoral
like sexual violence the rape of women and children
raping a defenseless animal the very things many here think as gross and disgusting
and know are immoral cause they are!

So how can portraying and condoning it in a society ever be right?
This in the guise of the very noble freedom of speech. Based in the fear
of losing ones personal rights, we allow heinous to continue.
Rape is never noble and should be abolished not revered.
Passing laws forbidding the depiction of the cruel ravaging of other human beings
and natures counterpart will begin the fight against rape that has been long since
due.
Just cause rape has been around since he beginning of time
doesn't mean we have to endure it until the end of time.

You didn't answer my question. Why is it okay to portray murder and not rape? Two consenting adults to PORTRAY are different than it happening.

Should murder be portrayed in the media? Yes, or no. And if so, why is it different than rape?

pandora

I totally agree yes we need laws on our TV, gameplay, and movies ...

Depicting murder is not ok at all and has lead to the devaluation of life
it desensitizes and makes for a much more violent world.

It certainly could only help with the violence if we send a different message
one that we will NOT take enjoyment from seeing another person die.

mikepegg44

Tritone wrote:

Example
Speaking of murder, what would be said about legalized hunting of humans?
If they both consent? Talk about demoralizing our society and the value of human life.

It is a matter of morality and yes somethings people know are immoral
like sexual violence the rape of women and children
raping a defenseless animal the very things many here think as gross and disgusting
and know are immoral cause they are!

So how can portraying and condoning it in a society ever be right?
This in the guise of the very noble freedom of speech. Based in the fear
of losing ones personal rights, we allow heinous to continue.
Rape is never noble and should be abolished not revered.
Passing laws forbidding the depiction of the cruel ravaging of other human beings
and natures counterpart will begin the fight against rape that has been long since
due.
Just cause rape has been around since he beginning of time
doesn't mean we have to endure it until the end of time.

you just aren't getting the point.

In order to have freedoms you have to take the good with the bad and make the choice you feel is best.

you analogy with hunting humans is not the same as PORTRAYING rape. not even close. We have laws against actual rape. We have laws against child rape. We have laws against murder.

HOWEVER if you were talking about a situation like assisted suicide I would say yes, it should be allowed. But allowing someone to kill you and hunting are two different things. It isn't really hunting when the prey is trying to die. So hunting humans by definition of the process would indicate that it is always murder.

Let me see if I have this right...not being against the portrayal of rape among two consenting adults at there place of business means that you actually revere rape and celebrate it? am I understanding you correctly?

I wonder if you would also make these equivalencies:

being pro-choice means you are for baby killing.

being against social security as a government program means you are for the killing of the elderly and the most vulnerable.

Being against welfare means you hate children eating.

Being for the separation of church and state means you aren't a true christian

being for marriage equality means you are for the destruction of the family...

this kind of demagoguery has no place in a discussion.

... will begin the fight against rape that has been long since due.

what?!

you think places like the Sexual Violence Center in Minneapolis haven't been fighting against sexual violence already? You think John Ashcroft as attorney general didn't already attempt this fight? That statement is not based in reality.

If you want to fight against portrayals of rape being shown to others, go nuts...but don't be surprised when the next free speech issue is shutting you up in some way...Your morality isn't the end all be all, and fortunately we have rights and freedoms that cannot be infringed upon by people with the idea that their morality should be the only one allowed.

redrock

mikepegg44 wrote:

you just aren't getting the point.

In order to have freedoms you have to take the good with the bad and make the choice you feel is best.........

..Your morality isn't the end all be all, and fortunately we have rights and freedoms that cannot be infringed upon by people with the idea that their morality should be the only one allowed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Some here are very quick to defend to the hilt freedom of speech, even when propos held are racist, homophobic, etc. claiming that one has the right to their beliefs. But, as soon as it's something they don't agree with, this claim seems to be reneged upon.

Porn (whether hard, soft, etc.) is filmed between consenting adults - whatever it may depict. Those that work in the industry have a right to their livelyhood, those that enjoy watching porn have the right to do just that. Freedom of expression.

Furthermore, I understand there are no credible studies liking more sex crimes to availability of porn. Naturally one can always google and find loads of 'studies' to suit their case....

mikepegg44

pandora wrote:

I totally agree yes we need laws on our TV, gameplay, and movies ...

Depicting murder is not ok at all and has lead to the devaluation of life
it desensitizes and makes for a much more violent world.

It certainly could only help with the violence if we send a different message
one that we will NOT take enjoyment from seeing another person die.

movies are more violent now than in 1970, 80, 90, but the violent crime rate continues to drop. we are at a 50 year low if I am not mistaken. There is no foundation in reality to back up this claim. It is logical to make that leap, but if you do not take into account the stats, a logical argument isn't any different than any other argument not based in fact...you just get to be wrong with conviction.

from a washington post article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01829.html
The national decrease in murder began about two decades ago. In 1991, the national homicide rate hit 9.8 per 100,000 inhabitants, prompting forecasts of permanently rising street violence -- then fell to 5.7 in 1999. Many wondered whether this "Great Crime Decline" could be sustained for another 10 years. The answer would appear to be yes: By 2008, the murder rate had drifted down to 5.4 per 100,000, the lowest level since 1965. And given the preliminary figures, the rate for 2009 should be lower still. Indeed, if present trends continue, America will experience a degree of public safety not known since the 1950s.

so what is it? are we becoming more violent because our movies and games are, or are overall violent crime rates dropping as games and movies become more violent? It cannot be both ways...
I do know that clearance rates of crimes about 25-26% in an area deter crimes. That leads me to believe that the perception of being caught helps deter crime. It would then lead me to believe that tv shows that depict murderers being caught has helped curb violent crime more than it has caused it. Potential murderers see those shows and assume that their local police are able to catch them no matter what they try to do...And since I know that actual clearance rates make a difference in crime, I should be able to say that something that helps with increase perceived clearance rates should also help in lowering crime. I mean, I have no real facts to back up my argument, but it seems logical doesn't it?
here is a nice chart depicting incidents of crimes by year

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

another theory I have is that humans are naturally aggressive...part of our animal make up...and as such if we have no virtual release of that aggression we may be more likely to physically manifest our aggression.
who knows...

PJ_Soul

redrock wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

you just aren't getting the point.

In order to have freedoms you have to take the good with the bad and make the choice you feel is best.........

..Your morality isn't the end all be all, and fortunately we have rights and freedoms that cannot be infringed upon by people with the idea that their morality should be the only one allowed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Some here are very quick to defend to the hilt freedom of speech, even when propos held are racist, homophobic, etc. claiming that one has the right to their beliefs. But, as soon as it's something they don't agree with, this claim seems to be reneged upon.

Porn (whether hard, soft, etc.) is filmed between consenting adults - whatever it may depict. Those that work in the industry have a right to their livelyhood, those that enjoy watching porn have the right to do just that. Freedom of expression.

Furthermore, I understand there are no credible studies liking more sex crimes to availability of porn. Naturally one can always google and find loads of 'studies' to suit their case....

Would just like to point you all back to my post about the porn industry - there are things to consider besides the "morality" of porn. Things that I think are more important... There are terrible things going on the porn industry that are harming human beings... until those things are fixed, porn should be considered carefully by those who choose to watch. For me it has nothing to do at with what is portrayed in porn (couldn't care less about that). It's what's actually happening to the real people who are working in the porn industry.

mikepegg44

PJ_Soul wrote:

redrock wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

you just aren't getting the point.

In order to have freedoms you have to take the good with the bad and make the choice you feel is best.........

..Your morality isn't the end all be all, and fortunately we have rights and freedoms that cannot be infringed upon by people with the idea that their morality should be the only one allowed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Some here are very quick to defend to the hilt freedom of speech, even when propos held are racist, homophobic, etc. claiming that one has the right to their beliefs. But, as soon as it's something they don't agree with, this claim seems to be reneged upon.

Porn (whether hard, soft, etc.) is filmed between consenting adults - whatever it may depict. Those that work in the industry have a right to their livelyhood, those that enjoy watching porn have the right to do just that. Freedom of expression.

Furthermore, I understand there are no credible studies liking more sex crimes to availability of porn. Naturally one can always google and find loads of 'studies' to suit their case....

Would just like to point you all back to my post about the porn industry - there are things to consider besides the "morality" of porn. Things that I think are more important... There are terrible things going on the porn industry that are harming human beings... until those things are fixed, porn should be considered carefully by those who choose to watch. For me it has nothing to do at with what is portrayed in porn (couldn't care less about that). It's what's actually happening to the real people who are working in the porn industry.

People still by nikes...people still buy diamonds...people still buy computers and ipads...
industries have problems... Awful things happen to human beings in all sorts of industries...This really isn't about that though...this is about the content produced and whether it should be censored for the public good or not...

pandora

keeponrockin wrote:

Why is it okay to portray murder and not rape? Two consenting adults to PORTRAY are different than it happening.

Should murder be portrayed in the media? Yes, or no. And if so, why is it different than rape?

No... I think we can do without murder and rape as entertainment don't you?

USARAY

Industries have problems there's a compassionate statement

I've said my piece I know what is immoral and heinous and I think
many here do too. It is not art nor freedom of speech to condone raping
women, children and animals. That was not the intent in the Constitution.
I for one am glad Santorum has attacked this issue and hope he and the like
have some success with banning the gross of the gross.
I think it can only improve the porn industry to have the very hard core element
removed both for viewers and those working in the industry.
It can only help America to rid itself of this kind of stuff that is bringing our country down
that is not soft porn but the porn that is sexually violent or directed at children
one child abducted raped and murdered is one too many whatever the crime statistics

in loving memory of Danielle Van Dam

keeponrockin

Tritone wrote:

Industries have problems there's a compassionate statement

I've said my piece I know what is immoral and heinous and I think
many here do too. It is not art nor freedom of speech to condone raping
women, children and animals. That was not the intent in the Constitution.
I for one am glad Santorum has attacked this issue and hope he and the like
have some success with banning the gross of the gross.
I think it can only improve the porn industry to have the very hard core element
removed both for viewers and those working in the industry.
It can only help America to rid itself of this kind of stuff that is bringing our country down
that is not soft porn but the porn that is sexually violent or directed at children
one child abducted raped and murdered is one too many whatever the crime statistics

in loving memory of Danielle Van Dam

Is displaying it condoning it?

Do the producers of Criminal Minds condone murder every time it's on TV? What about Scarface? Godfather (and no, not our right wing friend!)?

USARAY

keeponrockin wrote:

Is displaying it condoning it?

yep it is ... I am requiring a change in mindset one from enjoying viewing cruelty,
slaughter, degradation, humiliation, brutality, and inhumanity.

Let's be humane, novel thought.

haffajappa

redrock wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

you just aren't getting the point.

In order to have freedoms you have to take the good with the bad and make the choice you feel is best.........

..Your morality isn't the end all be all, and fortunately we have rights and freedoms that cannot be infringed upon by people with the idea that their morality should be the only one allowed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Some here are very quick to defend to the hilt freedom of speech, even when propos held are racist, homophobic, etc. claiming that one has the right to their beliefs. But, as soon as it's something they don't agree with, this claim seems to be reneged upon..

Yep its just like the WBC and the decision to not stop them from protesting.
Do the leaders deserve to be run over by a freight train? In my opinion, yes.
But if you stop them from protesting then you set the precedent that you can stop anyone from protesting

catefrances

pandora wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Why is it okay to portray murder and not rape? Two consenting adults to PORTRAY are different than it happening.

Should murder be portrayed in the media? Yes, or no. And if so, why is it different than rape?

No... I think we can do without murder and rape as entertainment don't you?

there goes a good percentage of hollywoods output. add violence tot hat and hollywood may have to start paying attention to the actual story lines.

catefrances

keeponrockin wrote:

Tritone wrote:

Industries have problems there's a compassionate statement

I've said my piece I know what is immoral and heinous and I think
many here do too. It is not art nor freedom of speech to condone raping
women, children and animals. That was not the intent in the Constitution.
I for one am glad Santorum has attacked this issue and hope he and the like
have some success with banning the gross of the gross.
I think it can only improve the porn industry to have the very hard core element
removed both for viewers and those working in the industry.
It can only help America to rid itself of this kind of stuff that is bringing our country down
that is not soft porn but the porn that is sexually violent or directed at children
one child abducted raped and murdered is one too many whatever the crime statistics

in loving memory of Danielle Van Dam

Is displaying it condoning it?

Do the producers of Criminal Minds condone murder every time it's on TV? What about Scarface? Godfather (and no, not our right wing friend!)?

no no no dont be bringing the godfather into it... those movies were about family. the violence was incidental.

peacefrompaul

Tritone wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Is displaying it condoning it?

yep it is ... I am requiring a change in mindset one from enjoying viewing cruelty,
slaughter, degradation, humiliation, brutality, and inhumanity.

Let's be humane, novel thought.

I guess I had better throw away a lot of good movies. My favorite, Saving Private Ryan is done, it's brutal, and shows slaughter. Better throw away my Pearl Jam records... Some of the songs degrade the Iraq War, politicians, etc. I had better kiss that movie The Patriot goodbye. It's pretty brutal, I mean, a head gets blown off.

Or maybe I just missed the sarcasm.

catefrances

peacefrompaul wrote:

Tritone wrote:

keeponrockin wrote:

Is displaying it condoning it?

yep it is ... I am requiring a change in mindset one from enjoying viewing cruelty,
slaughter, degradation, humiliation, brutality, and inhumanity.

Let's be humane, novel thought.

I guess I had better throw away a lot of good movies. My favorite, Saving Private Ryan is done, it's brutal, and shows slaughter. Better throw away my Pearl Jam records... Some of the songs degrade the Iraq War, politicians, etc. I had better kiss that movie The Patriot goodbye. It's pretty brutal, I mean, a head gets blown off.

Or maybe I just missed the sarcasm.

was it a character we cared about or just some random soldier? ... and was he a confederate or a yankee??... that can make all the difference.

peacefrompaul

catefrances wrote:

was it a character we cared about or just some random soldier? ... and was he a confederate or a yankee??... that can make all the difference.

Ha it's about the American Revolution. A Continental Army soldier got his head ripped off by a cannon ball and another soldier gets his legs taken out in the same scene.