legalize drugs ?????

g under p

ALL I know is IF one CHOOSES to use drugs like Meth, Herione and crack etc...YOU become the
Puppet to the Master....here it is with music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z-hEyVQDRA

.....Obey your MASTER...

End of passion play, crumbling away
I'm your source of self-destruction
Veins that pump with fear, sucking dark is clear
Leading on your deaths construction

Taste me you will see
More is all you need
Dedicated to
How I'm killing you

Come crawling faster
Obey your Master
Your life burns faster
Obey your Master
Master

Master of Puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master

Needlework the way, never you betray
Life or death becoming clearer
Pain monopoly, ritual misery
Chop your breakfast on a mirror

Taste me you will see
More is all you need
Dedicated to
How I'm killing you

Come crawling faster
Obey your Master
Your life burns faster
Obey your Master
Master

Master of Puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master

Master, Master, where's the dreams that I've been after?
Master, Master, you promised only lies
Laughter, Laughter, all I hear or see is laughter
Laughter, Laughter, laughing at my cries

Hell is worth all that, natural habitat
Just a rhyme without a reason
Neverending maze, drift on numbered days
now your life is out of season

I will occupy
I will help you die
I will run through you
Now I rule you too

Come crawling faster
Obey your Master
Your life burns faster
Obey your Master
Master

Master of Puppets I'm pulling your strings
Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams
Blinded by me, you can't see a thing
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master
Just call my name, 'cause I'll hear you scream
Master
Master


Peace

Eilian

I thought an intelligent, reasoned and objective argument for legalisation might be of interest - at least to the intelligent and reasoned here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

Ps,..."Hard Drugs" include Crystal Meth.

redrock

In that clip Friedman elaborates on a number of points made on this thread though he is a bit more eloquent!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

This is becoming comical. I'm not a prude:

Marijuana (and hashish for that matter) have some harmful (mostly long term) effects associated with smoking it; however, most things in society do as well (the sun is bad for you). Given what I deem to be acceptable levels of risk using the product, I cannot think of a legitimate reason why marijuana is not legalized. I second the notion.

Meth, cocaine, heroin, and other 'hard' drugs bear significant short and long term risk to users. They are dangerous. I'm not prepared to listen to any argument that attempts to diminish their potential impact by comparing these drugs with cigarettes. Legalization of drugs such as these would be catastrophic. Motion denied.

This whole freedom of choice thing is goofy as well. For most things, yes; for some things, no. Remember, people in society are irresponsible and make bad choices. Most people need regulation. The people that don't need regulation... need the people that do need regulation to be regulated- or they suffer indirect consequences for their poor decisions. What's next? Legalize owning cougars or grizzly bears? Dogs can be dangerous and they are legal. If you raise them right... they'll be fine. No thanks.

pandora

Losing a loved one hurts ... something everyone here can agree upon
because it has happened to them ... it hurts

pretty much makes a statement like killer drug use ..."doesn't hurt anybody else"
absolutely ridiculous

the pain other's carry because a child died a horrible death ...
it is REAL! it is happening EVERYDAY! it is UNBEARABLE HURT!

Milton Friedman - Why Drugs Should Be Legalized
That man seemed a bit creepy to me ...

Crystal Meth = Zombies ... let's not condone a society of Zombies

CRYSTAL METH is illegal and must remain illegal with new laws to protect it's victims
and tougher laws to get those who profit from it put away for life.

redrock

Have you actually read the reasoning behind decriminalisation? How in has worked? The pros and cons? As said before, it doesn't mean a free for all - drugs are still very regulated. No one says there would no longer be abuse or anything.... And yes - it is a choice. Hopefully, one will make the right one, or, as you say, they suffer the consequences. Again,as you said - if you raise them right, they will be fine (though you were talking about dogs, it applies to humans too!). I would say that there are more responsible people in our societythan otherwise. Plenty make the right choices.

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This whole freedom of choice thing is goofy as well. For most things, yes; for some things, no. Remember, people in society are irresponsible and make bad choices. Most people need regulation.

What about taking responsibility for your choices, good or poor? This said in addition to the concepts of education / rehabilitation.

pandora

What about the children?

JonnyPistachio

redrock wrote:

Decriminalisation of drugs doesn't mean that you will be able to buy them with your weekly supermarket shop or just pop in the corner shop and get your crack. It doesn't mean no one will be punished for trafficking, etc. It means that resources will be used to tackle the root of the problem for users (mental issues, environmental ones, peer pressure, etc.), help those that need to be helped and, hopefully, reduce 'petty' (not so petty really but just to differentiate) crimes associated with drugs enabling the focus on serious crimes (eg trafficking, etc.).

I'm glad you said this. I think its easy to get caught up thinking about legalizing some drugs, and panicking about the effects as opposed to decriminalizing. (good LONG post/article by Lukin2006 on page 8 too)

I'm on the fence on this stuff. It scares me to think of how kids are getting their hands on the really bad drugs (meth, coke, etc) But I have to wonder if the asshole pushers who give roxys to every 15 year old they can find, will die off if its decriminalized. Kids are dying from overdoses, the main question is - wold it get worse or better if decriminalized? I think its hard to say.

I have dealt with several people dying of drugs. I found my neighbor after his heart exploded (coke overdose I think) and he fell face first on the tile floor, smashing his face in. He died in the biggest pool of blood i've ever seen. But I remember the two thugs I saw in his yard a few days prior (likely his dealers). Would they still be dealing these drugs if they were decriminalized?

I've also known several people who have died from cigarettes, and a a few from alcohol. These are all very bad things depending on how they're used. Its just too hard to compare alcohol, cigs, pot, meth, etc...they are all so different.

Basically it comes down to - how easy would it be for kids to get them, and without the stigma, would it be a big deal anymore?

pandora

redrock wrote:

Have you actually read the reasoning behind decriminalisation? How in has worked? The pros and cons? As said before, it doesn't mean a free for all - drugs are still very regulated. No one says there would no longer be abuse or anything.... And yes - it is a choice. Hopefully, one will make the right one, or, as you say, they suffer the consequences. Again,as you said - if you raise them right, they will be fine (though you were talking about dogs, it applies to humans too!). I would say that there are more responsible people in our societythan otherwise. Plenty make the right choices.

And plenty do not but that's ok with you as long as your kids do? :?
there the wash my hands again syndrome hurts no one but the one using
crap

always ... not my kid
no gotta be some other parent less than me or some other child less then mine

ALL CHILDREN MATTER!

Really raise them right? many children who tried it once twice
got caught in the pleasure trap
they were raised perfectly 'right' with loving supportive good example adults
they are now DEAD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21w8GCJ ... re=related

you obviously do not understand this drug

get victims out of prison into treatment ...
lock up the parasites of our society and throw away the key
they are murderers selling, making this killer drug

redrock

Jonny - in countries where drugs are 'legal',they are actually decriminalised and this is what 'legalisation' is. It would seem that the activites/role of the pusher/dealer is greatly diminished as well as related crime. Naturally, these will never be erradicated and there will always be associated crime (theft,prostitution,etc) as drugs will still not be affordable to the masses. Also, this decriminalisation comes with a whole educational programme,etc.

I fully understand the 'scary' part of this - I have a teen. Thankfully she is making the right choices and, as it stands, I'm pretty confident she will continue to do so, though this does not mean I can 'rest on my laurels' when it comes to guiding her through these future choices she will be making. This is where education, parenting and nuturing comes into play. For all. Needs to be looked at as a whole.

hedonist

pandora wrote:

What about the children?

"I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone"

I'm not sure if Neil meant we've all been touched in some way by addiction, or that we all have the propensity to go down that road...kinda like we all have the potential to violently let loose, but use the tools we've hopefully been given to apply self-restraint, and consideration of potential consequences.

Children need to be taught to use common sense, to understand that there are repercussions, good and bad, for their actions. They'll always - despite (il)legality - get what they want, and experiment.

I really don't mean to come off as harsh on this.

Still trying to figure it out myself....those grey areas.

dignin

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

Have you actually read the reasoning behind decriminalisation? How in has worked? The pros and cons? As said before, it doesn't mean a free for all - drugs are still very regulated. No one says there would no longer be abuse or anything.... And yes - it is a choice. Hopefully, one will make the right one, or, as you say, they suffer the consequences. Again,as you said - if you raise them right, they will be fine (though you were talking about dogs, it applies to humans too!). I would say that there are more responsible people in our societythan otherwise. Plenty make the right choices.

And plenty do not but that's ok with you as long as your kids do? :?
there the wash my hands again syndrome hurts no one but the one using
crap

always ... not my kid
no gotta be some other parent less than me or some other child less then mine

ALL CHILDREN MATTER!

Really raise them right? many children who tried it once twice
got caught in the pleasure trap
they were raised perfectly 'right' with loving supportive good example adults
they are now DEAD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21w8GCJ ... re=related

you obviously do not understand this drug

get victims out of prison into treatment ...
lock up the parasites of our society and throw away the key
they are murderers selling, making this killer drug

Please, tone down the drama. It makes your posts hard to read

pandora

hedonist wrote:

pandora wrote:

What about the children?

"I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone"

I'm not sure if Neil meant we've all been touched in some way by addiction, or that we all have the propensity to go down that road...kinda like we all have the potential to violently let loose, but use the tools we've hopefully been given to apply self-restraint, and consideration of potential consequences.

Children need to be taught to use common sense, to understand that there are repercussions, good and bad, for their actions. They'll always - despite (il)legality - get what they want, and experiment.

I really don't mean to come off as harsh on this.

Still trying to figure it out myself....those grey areas.

Children are taught this ... but good common sense even some adults don't possess

a brain of a child does not fully understand consequences until age 25
with many factors working against good common sense during youth

the pleasure trap of CRYSTAL METH is like no other drug

if you don't want to come off as harsh on the subject visualize holding a dying child
search your heart for one you love dearly then visualize what that would be like
to be there as they left this world

and realize it matters not whether they had a choice or not because they were a
pawn for this drug and they are DEAD

pandora

dignin wrote:

pandora wrote:

redrock wrote:

Have you actually read the reasoning behind decriminalisation? How in has worked? The pros and cons? As said before, it doesn't mean a free for all - drugs are still very regulated. No one says there would no longer be abuse or anything.... And yes - it is a choice. Hopefully, one will make the right one, or, as you say, they suffer the consequences. Again,as you said - if you raise them right, they will be fine (though you were talking about dogs, it applies to humans too!). I would say that there are more responsible people in our societythan otherwise. Plenty make the right choices.

And plenty do not but that's ok with you as long as your kids do? :?
there the wash my hands again syndrome hurts no one but the one using
crap

always ... not my kid
no gotta be some other parent less than me or some other child less then mine

ALL CHILDREN MATTER!

Really raise them right? many children who tried it once twice
got caught in the pleasure trap
they were raised perfectly 'right' with loving supportive good example adults
they are now DEAD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y21w8GCJ ... re=related

you obviously do not understand this drug

get victims out of prison into treatment ...
lock up the parasites of our society and throw away the key
they are murderers selling, making this killer drug

Please, tone down the drama. It makes your posts hard to read

if you can't handle the fire

hedonist

All due respect to you, Pandora, my intent of not wanting to come off harsh has nothing to do with the visualization you've mentioned (which I have, each time you've mentioned it).

pandora

hedonist wrote:

All due respect to you, Pandora, my intent of not wanting to come off harsh has nothing to do with the visualization you've mentioned (which I have, each time you've mentioned it).

how could you be harsh on the subject if you can feel what this drug is doing to our children?
to society

Either you think it should be legalized or you do not
or don't know I guess

hedonist

I said "come off as".

Perhaps you didn't intend to appear patronizing (as I didn't intend appear harsh), but like I said above, a grey area.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

I said "come off as".

Perhaps you didn't intend to appear patronizing (as I didn't intend appear harsh), but like I said above, a grey area.

it is through feeling that we understand

I do not see how asking someone to understand that that is patronizing

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This whole freedom of choice thing is goofy as well. For most things, yes; for some things, no. Remember, people in society are irresponsible and make bad choices. Most people need regulation.

What about taking responsibility for your choices, good or poor? This said in addition to the concepts of education / rehabilitation.

Absolutely. One should take responsibility for their actions and choices. The problem is the 'spillover' (problems responsible society did not bring upon themselves and are forced to deal with such as crime, reckless behaviours, rehabilitation costs, etc.).

These hard drugs do not just affect the user. There is a major impact on the fabric of society through their usage and this impact would intensify with easier access and a lenient attitude towards them.