legalize drugs ?????

Drowned Out

keeponrockin wrote:

Make drinking and driving/smoking and driving a mandatory minimum of 5 years with no license at which point you start over with your learners permit. I don't know why we're not doing this already.

See, the science behind impairment testing has to develop a bit before I'd support anything like that.
This is a tricky topic....but....the fact is, MJ only causes any noticeable impairment for about 30-45 minutes. After that, the 'burnout' is more a tired feeling than anything....but nobody is on a soapbox to ban tired drivers. Nobody is campaigning to ban people from driving on ativan, or percs or any script drugs, or supplements which affect your alertness.
Testing for a MJ high is sketchy at best....it's in your system for months, and levels are hard to measure with any relation to impairment. Another factor is the tolerance of the user. A daily smoker probably barely notices being high after about 15 minutes, just has a slight buzz.....while someone who has only smoked a few times will probably have a serious buzz for much longer.
Like I keep repeating, it's been shown that impairment levels are less than someone who blows a .08 blood alcohol So unless you support a 5 year ban for a glass of wine with dinner, you're way over the top with your five year ban for MJ smokers (esp if there's no way of telling if they're high or it's just in their system!).

Now....what SHOULD happen, imo, is that there should be more tech focused on the vehicle itself. Why don't all vehicles have those blower things? Spend some money on R&D to simplify the process to make it more convenient, then make it mandatory in all vehicles. I read a long time ago that car companies were working on technology for sensors that could measure your eyelids for excessive blinking and droopiness - the car could sense if you were too tired to be driving (could probably tweak that to include monitoring how alert you are, periord).....this stuff can be done, but it doesn't seem to be a priority. People are more worried about imposing their moral stance than finding solutions that don't discriminate.

catefrances

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

For those who say they prefer people to be responsible :wtf:

We would all love a world where everyone was responsible, their actions not for themselves
but for the regard of others. How many live their lives like that?

We are so far from that I'm not sure how anyone can even make a statement
like that. I guess one can keep wishing or one can get real.

So you argue that more government legislation is the answer? The wise sages of the government know how to live responsibly?

is always amuses me that people call for a smaller govt and more govt intervention. small govt. big govt... it cant be both. and i will not have the govt telling me that getting high is a criminal act.

pandora

brianlux wrote:

pandora wrote:

For those who say they prefer people to be responsible :wtf:

We would all love a world where everyone was responsible, their actions not for themselves
but for the regard of others. How many live their lives like that?

We are so far from that I'm not sure how anyone can even make a statement
like that. I guess one can keep wishing or one can get real.

Pandora, the fact is there will always be drugs. There will always be junkies and coke sniffers and glue sniffers and potheads and alcoholics. That being the case (we do agree on that, right?) doesn't it make sense to stop wasting time and money trying to eliminate drugs and spend more time teaching people to be responsible about either not doing drugs or doing them safely? That seems more real than wishful to me. Trying to eliminate drugs? That's purely make believe.

There will always be murderers too shouldn't we stop spending so much time and money
trying to eliminate those who prey on others then? That is ridiculous,
I feel the same about legalizing all drugs... ridiculous.

By legalizing all drugs society is accepting drug use .... period.
That is in direct conflict with discouraging use.

As we have seen with abortion.
Since it has been legalized the amount of abortions have sky rocketed,
even used as a birth control measure for some... having multiple abortions.
The same will happen with drug use.

Now we have the dangerous legalized gas station synthetic cocaine and pot....
bath salts.
It has killed a few kids here and also put some users in prison or mental wards.
Some experience paranoia to a psychotic point and are viciously aggressive.
When the ingredients are outlawed new ones are created with very dangerous results.
Common sense tells a person don't take that shit yet people are. :?
More readily because it is legal, convenient etc.

Getting real is keeping drugs illegal, educating the young, having help readily available
for those addicted so they can get their lives back. That is what drugs do
they take away lives.

Yes, of course there will always be drug use but with the message...
it is a very bad way to live, drugs destroy lives and they kill.
For many they get physically hooked without that ever being part of the plan
and by then it is too late.

"I want to be a drug addict when I grow up" do we think anyone has ever wanted that? :fp:

pandora

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

For those who say they prefer people to be responsible :wtf:

We would all love a world where everyone was responsible, their actions not for themselves
but for the regard of others. How many live their lives like that?

We are so far from that I'm not sure how anyone can even make a statement
like that. I guess one can keep wishing or one can get real.

So you argue that more government legislation is the answer? The wise sages of the government know how to live responsibly?

So you do not think there should be laws protecting society from dangerous things? :?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Legal or not...

Is there ONE PERSON on this board, who truly has a hard time, obtaining their pot? Seriously? I am sure each and every single one of you, just has to make 1 or 2 phone calls, and POOF there it is! Right?

You can pick up your dope at any time...
You can sit in your house and get stoned all day long...

So why does it need to be "legalized"?

How is "legalizing" pot going to change anything for you people as individuals?

riotgrl

So I'm kinda late to this thread so if this has been said before, well, I was just too lazy to go back through all 18 or so pages to check If we legalize drugs (and really, I'm thinking stuff like marijuana not necessarily "hard" stuff like cocaine - although I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on the hard drugs) then what we are doing is decriminalizing drug use. Right now, we have alot of people in prison because they were using drugs, not selling or distributing but using. That just seems ridiculous to me that we are putting people in prison because they smoked a joint, because they are addicted, maybe they need therapy and recovery not a prison sentence. Why not focus our resources (local police, DEA, etc) on catching large scale distributors instead of continuing to wage a war on drug users? Drug users are the victims but yet we are punishing them? Reagan started this nonsense and we have never and will never be able to "win" this war. Decriminalize drug use and go after the distributors.

Here's a map about heroin production and cocaine flows:
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/drug-trafficking/index.html
Seems like a large proportion of heroin and cocaine is going to the US. War on drugs isn't working.

mikepegg44

pandora wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

For those who say they prefer people to be responsible :wtf:

We would all love a world where everyone was responsible, their actions not for themselves
but for the regard of others. How many live their lives like that?

We are so far from that I'm not sure how anyone can even make a statement
like that. I guess one can keep wishing or one can get real.

So you argue that more government legislation is the answer? The wise sages of the government know how to live responsibly?

So you do not think there should be laws protecting society from dangerous things? :?

You are right...government intervention is the only way to protect people. It has been working this long, so we should continue it. Fuck all those other people who are crippled and killed simply by the drug war, fuck them. A few kids need to be protected by the government because their parents and community are so inept that they could never possibly make the decision to not use drugs without them being illegal.

Fuck illegal drugs anyway...the legal ones are SO much better

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

By legalizing all drugs society is accepting drug use .... period.

I respectfully disagree. (btw, I'm not so sure about making all drugs legal, but definitely decriminalizing many of them.) But I think you're speaking for yourself when you say that we are accepting drug use if we make it legal. Cigarettes are legal, but there are age limits. Drinking is legal but there are limits. You can be arrested for public intoxication. I think the majority of people who smoke cigarettes are do it despite the knowledge of the dangers. Our society frowns upon cigarettes for the most part. Just because its legal, you dont see the govt telling everybody they should smoke cigs...in fact, I believe they've banned certain advertisements. Legalizing something doesn't equate with accepting the abuse of a product.

pandora wrote:

As we have seen with abortion.
Since it has been legalized the amount of abortions have sky rocketed,

...And, the amount of people dying from illegal abortions was probably reduced greatly!

peacefrompaul

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Legal or not...

Is there ONE PERSON on this board, who truly has a hard time, obtaining their pot? Seriously? I am sure each and every single one of you, just has to make 1 or 2 phone calls, and POOF there it is! Right?

You can pick up your dope at any time...
You can sit in your house and get stoned all day long...

So why does it need to be "legalized"?

How is "legalizing" pot going to change anything for you people as individuals?

We would no longer have to live in fear of the police fining us/taking us to jail for doing something that isn't harming others.

peacefrompaul

pandora wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

For those who say they prefer people to be responsible :wtf:

We would all love a world where everyone was responsible, their actions not for themselves
but for the regard of others. How many live their lives like that?

We are so far from that I'm not sure how anyone can even make a statement
like that. I guess one can keep wishing or one can get real.

So you argue that more government legislation is the answer? The wise sages of the government know how to live responsibly?

So you do not think there should be laws protecting society from dangerous things? :?

No, I just don't think people are inherently stupid.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

peacefrompaul wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Legal or not...

Is there ONE PERSON on this board, who truly has a hard time, obtaining their pot? Seriously? I am sure each and every single one of you, just has to make 1 or 2 phone calls, and POOF there it is! Right?

You can pick up your dope at any time...
You can sit in your house and get stoned all day long...

So why does it need to be "legalized"?

How is "legalizing" pot going to change anything for you people as individuals?

We would no longer have to live in fear of the police fining us/taking us to jail for doing something that isn't harming others.

When was the last time YOU or ANY of your friends were fined, our thrown in jail, for smoking dope?

hedonist

mikepegg44 wrote:

You are right...government intervention is the only way to protect people. It has been working this long, so we should continue it. Fuck all those other people who are crippled and killed simply by the drug war, fuck them. A few kids need to be protected by the government because their parents and community are so inept that they could never possibly make the decision to not use drugs without them being illegal.

Fuck illegal drugs anyway...the legal ones are SO much better

I keep getting a sense of deja vu.

Just wanted to give a :thumbup: to this!

peacefrompaul

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Legal or not...

Is there ONE PERSON on this board, who truly has a hard time, obtaining their pot? Seriously? I am sure each and every single one of you, just has to make 1 or 2 phone calls, and POOF there it is! Right?

You can pick up your dope at any time...
You can sit in your house and get stoned all day long...

So why does it need to be "legalized"?

How is "legalizing" pot going to change anything for you people as individuals?

We would no longer have to live in fear of the police fining us/taking us to jail for doing something that isn't harming others.

When was the last time YOU or ANY of your friends were fined, our thrown in jail, for smoking dope?

Last year... my buddy was pulled over, searched, taken to jail, and fined.

Edit: and taken to court, too

brianlux

I want to know this: Why was it legal (several years ago) for doctors to push me to increase my prescriptions for Xanax and Prozac to the point where I became addicted to Xanax and the result of taking too much Prozac was for me to almost completely stop eating and sleeping and getting out of bed for over a month and yet if I smoke a joint (a much better way to treat depression) I'm breaking the law?

And I want to know this: Why is it legal for my town to hold an annual Brew Fest where, by the end of the evening, Main Street is full of 20-something people staggering around drunk while the local sheriff's department and CHP wait on hand to take in people for public drunkenness and driving and make money for the county and yet medical marijuana dispensaries are still shut down from time to time?

Drug laws are a joke. A bad joke.

peacefrompaul

brianlux wrote:

I want to know this: Why was it legal (several years ago) for doctors to push me to increase my prescriptions for Xanax and Prozac to the point where I became addicted to Xanax and the result of taking too much Prozac was for me to almost completely stop eating and sleeping and getting out of bed for over a month and yet if I smoke a joint (a much better way to treat depression) I'm breaking the law?

And I want to know this: Why is it legal for my town to hold an annual Brew Fest where, by the end of the evening, Main Street is full of 20-something people staggering around drunk while the local sheriff's department and CHP wait on hand to take in people for public drunkenness and driving and make money for the county and yet medical marijuana dispensaries are still shut down from time to time?

Drug laws are a joke. A bad joke.

It's messed up, Brian, to say the least. As long as we have big pharma pumping funds to our politicians, little will change. They keep making pills that turn us into zombies... I'm sorry you had those problems... You are not alone, Sir.

pandora

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

So you do not think there should be laws protecting society from dangerous things? :?

No, I just don't think people are inherently stupid.

So you do believe there should be laws protecting people from dangerous things ...
me too.

And no it is not stupidity that gets a kid hooked on meth
although some might say lack of good common sense.
But some kids hardly stand a chance.
Then add the fact that the human brain doesn't understand consequence until 25 years of age
and many kids think they are bulletproof until after the fact ...
we have a recipe for a lost life.

I was all for decriminalizing pot until the all drugs legal thing started.
I have found I am not alone. Time to rethink.

Pot isn't the gateway drug but it is the gateway to legalizing all drugs unfortunately.
All drugs legal = a crazy bad idea. :fp:

Cosmo

Is it just me... or do the people who argue against legalizing pot always sound like the people who really should smoke pot?
You know, to loosen up their tight asses.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

By legalizing all drugs society is accepting drug use .... period.

I respectfully disagree. (btw, I'm not so sure about making all drugs legal, but definitely decriminalizing many of them.) But I think you're speaking for yourself when you say that we are accepting drug use if we make it legal. Cigarettes are legal, but there are age limits. Drinking is legal but there are limits. You can be arrested for public intoxication. I think the majority of people who smoke cigarettes are do it despite the knowledge of the dangers. Our society frowns upon cigarettes for the most part. Just because its legal, you dont see the govt telling everybody they should smoke cigs...in fact, I believe they've banned certain advertisements. Legalizing something doesn't equate with accepting the abuse of a product.

pandora wrote:

As we have seen with abortion.
Since it has been legalized the amount of abortions have sky rocketed,

...And, the amount of people dying from illegal abortions was probably reduced greatly!

So is there abuse of cigarettes? Are people dying?

This is why we are passing laws to limit
smokers and keep areas safe for non smokers. More laws.

When something is legal it sends the message it is ok to do.
How do kids learn right from wrong?
They are punished when they do something that endangers themselves
or another. It is very basic.
Like the young man stopped for pot... bet he learned to keep it at home.
Is that so bad? Pot doesn't belong out on the streets. In cars etc. just what we need
more DUI.

And yes that is the reason abortion was legalized to allow a safe procedure.
I am pro choice for this reason
but the point is when it was legalized it become common practice to the point
of where we are now 40 years later. If it had stayed illegal to protect the unborn life
we would not have the numbers of babies killed as we do now, no where near.

Something that is illegal is discouraged .... period ... and rightfully so with hard drugs.
Too dangerous, too many hurt, too many dying, too many lives ruined.

Just heard of another case on the news, minutes ago ...
it took 4 big cops with tasers to subdue one small guy on bath salts.
The taser did not even effect him. He was crazy violent...
do we think maybe eat somebody's face :shock: good lord and that's legal!

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

Is it just me... or do the people who argue against legalizing pot always sound like the people who really should smoke pot?
You know, to loosen up their tight asses.

my arse is wide open and then some

pandora

mikepegg44 wrote:

pandora wrote:

So you do not think there should be laws protecting society from dangerous things? :?

You are right...government intervention is the only way to protect people. It has been working this long, so we should continue it. Fuck all those other people who are crippled and killed simply by the drug war, fuck them. A few kids need to be protected by the government because their parents and community are so inept that they could never possibly make the decision to not use drugs without them being illegal.

Fuck illegal drugs anyway...the legal ones are SO much better

A few kids ... um :?

don't get me started on big pharm and the abuse of the american people in the name of greed

news flash.... put that prescription down ya don't need it!