What does God look like ?

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

...would have used good common sense...

Talking of common sense... :think:

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

I'm surprised at your questions if you could ask anything ...
you are asking questions created by religion, not God,
seeking answers from God, not religion, in my opinion.

I'm really not sure what it is you're getting at here. They are not questions created by religion. They are questions that can be more simplistically put as "Why do bad things happen to bad people?" "Why don't you put an end to all the conflict in your name and show yourself, or speak to your creation?" "Why leave your creation in the dark?" Basically, the sort of questions that only lead me to conclude that either there is no god, or god is not good. Questions that have nothing specifically to do with any religion, as I have already stated.

pandora wrote:

Well for the respect of others who were taking the question seriously...
in the nature it was created and presented one would think that those who thought it silly would have refrained from making it sillier, refrained from being insulting and cruel, and would have used good common sense and not attempted to offend other posters and their beliefs.
One would think that because that is reasonable,
but one cannot depend on that it seems, unfortunately.

And who is wrong?
for me that is the some doing the ridiculing ... the some on the defensive
the some lacking respect and the some admitting proudly to it all!

I agree that people should be insulting or cruel about other people's beliefs. And again, I'll say that - for the most part, at least - I don't believe that was people's intention here. But, you would do well to be aware that your own tone in this thread has also at times been judgmental and self-righteous. It works both ways, you know...

pandora

I was taught to be kind and respectful of others even those with opposing views,
to try to follow the golden rule

this is good common sense ... yes :?

butterflies carried on the wind,
though a wind we can not see nor feel

but for the butterfly and the journey.

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

I was taught to be kind and respectful of others even those with opposing views,
to try to follow the golden rule

Then I'd advise you not to be so presumptuous about what other people believe, and why they believe it.

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

pandora wrote:

I'm surprised at your questions if you could ask anything ...
you are asking questions created by religion, not God,
seeking answers from God, not religion, in my opinion.

I'm really not sure what it is you're getting at here. They are not questions created by religion. They are questions that can be more simplistically put as "Why do bad things happen to bad people?" "Why don't you put an end to all the conflict in your name and show yourself, or speak to your creation?" "Why leave your creation in the dark?" Basically, the sort of questions that only lead me to conclude that either there is no god, or god is not good. Questions that have nothing specifically to do with any religion, as I have already stated.

pandora wrote:

Well for the respect of others who were taking the question seriously...
in the nature it was created and presented one would think that those who thought it silly would have refrained from making it sillier, refrained from being insulting and cruel, and would have used good common sense and not attempted to offend other posters and their beliefs.
One would think that because that is reasonable,
but one cannot depend on that it seems, unfortunately.

And who is wrong?
for me that is the some doing the ridiculing ... the some on the defensive
the some lacking respect and the some admitting proudly to it all!

I agree that people should be insulting or cruel about other people's beliefs. And again, I'll say that - for the most part, at least - I don't believe that was people's intention here. But, you would do well to be aware that your own tone in this thread has also at times been judgmental and self-righteous. It works both ways, you know...

tone ... easily misinterpreted, I have found ... words not so much so and pictures speak
a thousand of those ... we see here in this thread

do people judge a convicted rapist...I believe they do

of course the claim of 'holier than thou' often bounced around
a sign of the defensiveness that exists

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

pandora wrote:

I was taught to be kind and respectful of others even those with opposing views,
to try to follow the golden rule

Then I'd advise you not to be so presumptuous about what other people believe, and why they believe it.

It matters not what they believe, to each their own,
hoping they can be good back to others about their beliefs ... this the subject matter.

This what was lacking here in this thread.


butterflies carried on the wind,
though a wind we can not see nor feel

but for the butterfly and the journey.

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

tone ... easily misinterpreted, I have found ... words not so much so and pictures speak
a thousand of those ... we see here in this thread

do people judge a convicted rapist...I believe they do

of course the claim of 'holier than thou' often bounced around
a sign of the defensiveness that exists

Ok, now you're just making feeble excuses, and pretty bizarre ones at that.

pandora wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Then I'd advise you not to be so presumptuous about what other people believe, and why they believe it.

It matters not what they believe, to each their own

...which seems not at all consistent with your earlier pronouncements and fanciful speculations on the beliefs of others.

If rational discussion has left the building, then i'm going too...

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

I'm really not sure what it is you're getting at here. They are not questions created by religion. They are questions that can be more simplistically put as "Why do bad things happen to bad people?" "Why don't you put an end to all the conflict in your name and show yourself, or speak to your creation?" "Why leave your creation in the dark?" Basically, the sort of questions that only lead me to conclude that either there is no god, or god is not good. Questions that have nothing specifically to do with any religion, as I have already stated.

All those questions should be asked of Man not God ... in my opinion.

Why does Man not see beyond this life, see the enormous big picture
of the eternal life of the human soul?

Why is Man in the dark? When faith is within reach.

Why does Man thrive on conflict and can not give and forgive his fellow Man?

Why is Man not listening? Not feeling God? When God is there for the taking.

We all have choices and you have chosen not to believe ...
that your conclusion but it is Man that brings you there not God.

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

pandora wrote:

tone ... easily misinterpreted, I have found ... words not so much so and pictures speak
a thousand of those ... we see here in this thread

do people judge a convicted rapist...I believe they do

of course the claim of 'holier than thou' often bounced around
a sign of the defensiveness that exists

Ok, now you're just making feeble excuses, and pretty bizarre ones at that.

pandora wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Then I'd advise you not to be so presumptuous about what other people believe, and why they believe it.

It matters not what they believe, to each their own

...which seems not at all consistent with your earlier pronouncements and fanciful speculations on the beliefs of others.

If rational discussion has left the building, then i'm going too...

what excuse did I make?

what was fanciful?
I do like that word though but I think my opinion has been far from that
fanciful is based in hopes and dreams ...
this is all cold hard fact

you know me ... I respect the beliefs of others but will not tolerate
the insults and rudeness towards others most especially when unprovoked.

If you can't say something nice then....

and don't spoil it for others

I think that is rational ... I am surprised you find that not to be.

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

I'm really not sure what it is you're getting at here. They are not questions created by religion. They are questions that can be more simplistically put as "Why do bad things happen to bad people?" "Why don't you put an end to all the conflict in your name and show yourself, or speak to your creation?" "Why leave your creation in the dark?" Basically, the sort of questions that only lead me to conclude that either there is no god, or god is not good. Questions that have nothing specifically to do with any religion, as I have already stated.

All those questions should be asked of Man not God ... in my opinion.

Exactly.
But the reason is this: The fact that they can be asked at all is to me indicative of the absence of God. The reason why these would be the key questions that I would ask God if he/she/it did exist is because they are explicitly contrary to what we commonly conceive of God to be - within or without religion. So I agree with you on that point, but I disagree entirely with the conclusions you draw from that point.

pandora wrote:

Why does Man not see beyond this life, see the enormous big picture
of the eternal life of the human soul?

I would rather say, "Why should humans (let's use that word instead of Man) look beyond this life? Why can we not be happy with our lot? Is this life, this world not magnificent enough for you? Why do we need to believe in the "eternal life of the human soul", when there is no reason to believe in it?

pandora wrote:

Why is Man in the dark? When faith is within reach.

What I was getting at here was something different. This is by no means a corolloary of what I said. And if this is not about God but humanity, what's the "faith" you are talking about? Faith in what?

pandora wrote:

Why does Man thrive on conflict and can not give and forgive his fellow Man?

Ok, this one, I'll go with you on.

pandora wrote:

Why is Man not listening? Not feeling God? When God is there for the taking.

What does this mean? How do you "feel" God? How do you "take" God? I'm sorry, but to me, this is vacuous platitude. I don't belive this has any rational maeaning

pandora wrote:

We all have choices and you have chosen not to believe ...
that your conclusion but it is Man that brings you there not God.

And this is what i disagree with you on most strongly. I have not "chosen" what I believe. Belief is a passive response to the information your senses and your reason and intelligence provide you with. You either believe it, or you don't There is no choice. What you choose is whether or not to accept what you naturally and passively believe. I chose to accept that the information my senses and my reason provided me with was not compatible with the belief in the existence of God. That is a very different thing from choosing not to believe, and a very important distinction that those who judge and criticise and condemn non-believers really need to understand.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

No one answered my question...

why come and ridicule and criticize? what is the purpose and truly there is nothing more condescending then just that!

...
I'll answer this...
Personally... I don't come here to ridicule and criticize. People mistake my questioning or disbelief of their beliefs as ridicule and criticism. That in NOT on me... it is on the person that misreads me. I have stated many times that I accept and respect everyone's beliefs... for themselves, but not for me.
From my perspective, I wish they would just respect my beliefs... that happens to be counter to theirs, instead of slapping a mean and disrespectful label on me, simply because I don't believe them. That is the basic premise of 'To each, their own'.

Cosmo

Lizard wrote:

Come on Godfather. You wanted to provoke by asking a question that cannot be answered.
except by me...................
Here is God:

...
I thought about this one last night...
Isn't this a 'Graven Image of God'?

wolfamongwolves

pandora wrote:

quote]
what excuse did I make?

That your tone was misinterpreted. Yet, you don't apply that same standard to those you accuse of ridiculing.
That it's ok to be judgmental, because hey, don't we judge convicted rapists?

pandora wrote:

what was fanciful?

Your false presumption that anyone who makes a satirical response does so because they are afraid, or feel threatened.

pandora wrote:

you know me ... I respect the beliefs of others but will not tolerate
the insults and rudeness towards others most especially when unprovoked.

Personally, I find your presumption above to be quite rude. All I'm saying is practice what you preach.
EDIT: in other words, what Cosmo said better above

pandora

satirical - exposing human folly to ridicule; "a persistent campaign of mockery

nice word for being insulting ... pretty much what I have said yes... ridicule

And again why come to ridicule others beliefs? :?
Why mockery when this thread was created with
a positive intention for those who wanted to share their ideas about God.

pandora

wolfamongwolves wrote:

I chose to accept that the information my senses and my reason provided me with was not compatible with the belief in the existence of God.

and when your senses tell you otherwise you will then believe?

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

And again why come to ridicule others beliefs? :?
Why mockery when this thread was created with a positive intention for those who wanted to share their ideas about God.

...
It is ridicule and mockery when it is percieved as ridicule and mockery.
This thread aks the question, 'What Does God Look Like?' in an Open Forum... it is not about, "Only Come Here To Share Your Positive Views And Ideas Of God... Otherwise, Stay The Fuck Out.". This is why you are reading messages you don't like... because the topic is the former, not the latter.

JonnyPistachio

wolfamongwolves wrote:

I have not "chosen" what I believe. Belief is a passive response to the information your senses and your reason and intelligence provide you with. You either believe it, or you don't There is no choice. What you choose is whether or not to accept what you naturally and passively believe. I chose to accept that the information my senses and my reason provided me with was not compatible with the belief in the existence of God. That is a very different thing from choosing not to believe, and a very important distinction that those who judge and criticise and condemn non-believers really need to understand.

Very well said.

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

And again why come to ridicule others beliefs? :?
Why mockery when this thread was created with a positive intention for those who wanted to share their ideas about God.

...
It is ridicule and mockery when it is percieved as ridicule and mockery.
This thread aks the question, 'What Does God Look Like?' in an Open Forum... it is not about, "Only Come Here To Share Your Positive Views And Ideas Of God... Otherwise, Stay The Fuck Out.". This is why you are reading messages you don't like... because the topic is the former, not the latter.

This is what I've been thinking all along Cosmo. And it was ignored when I suggested that if I disagree with two Bible quotes that Ifind ludicrous, why should I not ask question, which could be taken as criticism. Furthermore, I'd call it constructive criticism. Even if someone suggests God is a crutch, why get upset about what that person believes enough to call them a person who acts out of fear? If someone told me PJ was a crutch for me, it wouldnt bother me if it were true or not -- just someone pointing out how they perceive my obsession.

mickeyrat

Cosmo wrote:

Lizard wrote:

Come on Godfather. You wanted to provoke by asking a question that cannot be answered.
except by me...................
Here is God:

...
I thought about this one last night...
Isn't this a 'Graven Image of God'?

nope, not for christians. With the new testament there is but one commandment. That is" love thy neighbor as thyself." Or as Ed put it in Columbus last year for the PJ as a religion "dont be an asshole"

pandora

satircal wasn't my word ... 'wolves' nailed that perfectly
the definition proving my point

wolfamongwolves wrote:
Your false presumption that anyone who makes a satirical response does so because they are afraid, or feel threatened.

I read back through ... yes a lot of mockery and ridicule

but that's what some do... its not knew
at the expense of others ... their fun
I knew kids like that too once upon a time, I think most of us did.



this I 'know'
we can agree to disagree on their true colors or is that motives

Cosmo

JonnyPistachio wrote:

This is what I've been thinking all along Cosmo. And it was ignored when I suggested that if I disagree with two Bible quotes that Ifind ludicrous, why should I not ask question, which could be taken as criticism. Furthermore, I'd call it constructive criticism. Even if someone suggests God is a crutch, why get upset about what that person believes enough to call them a person who acts out of fear? If someone told me PJ was a crutch for me, it wouldnt bother me if it were true or not -- just someone pointing out how they perceive my obsession.

...
Exactly. We question those things we find questionable.
And maybe some people need God as a crutch... their reliance on God to get them through tough times works for them. Nothing wrong with that. If it gets them to better days, it's good.