Why do we need to "believe" in God?

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

I think the bottom line here is that if someone is incapable of explaining what they mean by their use of a particular word, then they should stop using that word.
Simply saying 'I know 'God' and then failing, or deliberately refusing, to qualify that statement, implies one of two things: either that you are simply delusional, or that you are incapable of rational thought.

I have been pretty clear people must find God themselves and will perhaps one day.

I can see from all your words you are closed to that thought of finding God
because you will not believe there is a possibility ...

you already have concluded just what you said here

You say....God comes from delusion and not of rational thought...
very much like I thought 20 years ago.

A person has new thought when they know God, when they know without a doubt
there is God and afterlife.

I said I know God in response to the ridiculous statement no one can know God,
pages back. And will always respond as such, because the statement is untrue
and based in some people's opinions not one I share.
This just as people believe God is based in my opinion ... not in truth.
It is a simple case of different core beliefs and should be left as such

To each their own.

I am not trying to explain nor make anyone believe.
But what are others doing?
Attempting to dismiss others beliefs? Why? Why? Why?

You may find God one day as I have and maybe not,
why does it matter to atheists that others believe?

To stop speaking of God is something I will never do,
it would be like turning my back on my very best friend,
to put that in a way you may or may not understand.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

The idea of 'God' is crutch for people too weak to accept the World as it is.

now byrnzie, I know what you are saying, but you know that isn't true. that would mean you are claiming that 98% of the world is weaker than us. that's tough to swallow since you chastise pandora for thinking she is something special for knowing god, don't you think?

I think it's a crutch for SOME people, just like music in dark times can be. I enjoy music in good and bad, it can make a good mood even better, and make a bad mood not so bad, but I wouldn't say that means I'm weaker than those who don't use music to bring themselves up.

everyone has a crutch. but that doesn't make them weak.

some might say that man's need to explain everything with science is no different than man's need to explain everything through god.

Maybe 98% of humans are weak. Maybe 99%. I don't know. But substituting reality with an anthropomorphic deity doesn't constitute strength.
As for Pandora 'knowing God', I find that to be a stretch considering she's not even capable of explaining to anybody what 'God' is.
If people choose to take refuge behind deities or ideals rather than accepting the fundamental absurdity of the World then they are exhibiting weakness.

As for this notion of 'God' that everyone seems so quick to keep bandying around, I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the word means. All I've gotten from this thread so far is the odd reference to 'Him', and 'He', 'He answered me', 'my relationship with God', e.t.c, which, quite frankly, I find to be completely ridiculous.

Though if people want to talk about some kind of cosmic energy, life-force, or latent aspect of human consciousness/awareness, then I'm all ears. But they can keep their bearded man in the sky to themselves.

Don't you just love it when people talk about you like you aren't here

Bearded man :? ... funny but also very belittling to those who follow religions.
Very superior sounding and disrespectful.

It is not possible to explain God to someone who does not want to know God,
they already have their core belief. It is only God who can change their core belief.
I think people get what I am saying, I hope cause I've said it in response to each post.

Go find God for yourself, unless of course you are just driven by actions you are already displaying.
Actions, words that are less than positive, loving or respecting of others beliefs.

Byrnzie

Still all this inane chatter about 'God' and yet I'm still waiting for someone to explain what this word means.

Looks like I shouldn't hold my breath.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

You say....God comes from delusion and not of rational thought...

No, that's not what I said.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

You say....God comes from delusion and not of rational thought...

No, that's not what I said.

well yes ..
you said ...because someone knows God and can not or will not explain it to you
that that means the person is irrational and delusional ...
far from the truth.
And again rude, disrespectful and belittling to others beliefs,
to those who know God
Also very superior of you .. I guess we owe you an explanation. :?
If we don't give it we are wrong.

Go ask God who God is or do you not believe in God?
If this the case why must you know what others believe so badly ... seems very strange to me
perhaps your words and actions show your intentions.

JonnyPistachio

Byrnzie wrote:

Page 17 of this thread and still nobody has explained what 'God' is.

I have no clue. I don't know if there is one (or eleven, or any).
But, I like to think God is synonymous with Nature...& maybe Science.
...the things that allowed us/the Earth/the galaxy/space to happen.

But they have no immediate control. God is not omnipotent.

I don't think we all need to know God, believe in God, or have faith though.
Just my humble opinion.

I'd also love to know what heaven and hell are. :?

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

Go ask God who God is or do you not believe in God?

I have no idea what you mean by this word 'God' that you insist on repeatedly shoving down everyone's throats.

You say I should ask God who God is? I take it from this that you regard 'God' as a person? Maybe you can elaborate...or not?

satansbed

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Go ask God who God is or do you not believe in God?

I have no idea what you mean by this word 'God' that you insist on repeatedly shoving down everyone's throats.

You say I should ask God who God is? I take it from this that you regard 'God' as a person? Maybe you can elaborate...or not?

the supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions

or

deity: any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force


this is what most people when when they refer to god

i don't think a god like this is possible though

Jeanwah

Byrnzie wrote:

Page 20 of this thread and still nobody has explained what 'God' is.

I'll tell you what it is, how about this... God is an intangible object that exists in some people's minds.The key word being "some".

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Go ask God who God is or do you not believe in God?

I have no idea what you mean by this word 'God' that you insist on repeatedly shoving down everyone's throats.

You say I should ask God who God is? I take it from this that you regard 'God' as a person? Maybe you can elaborate...or not?

I will repeat what I have already said that you failed to address ...

Go ask God who God is or do you not believe in God?
If this the case why must you know what others believe so badly ...
seems very strange to me
perhaps your words and actions show your true intentions.

I think you can find your definition of God easier than
I could ever make you understand God.

God is not a definition to me, something you perhaps can not grasp,
well until you experience God, if you do.

Until then, God will remain a word ... just a word for you.

inlet13

The insecurity of some atheists is very, very apparent in this thread.... just read some of these posts.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

Are we all not enlightened when we learn something new?
Did anyone here think anyone was speaking for someone else or just speaking of their own beliefs and experiences?
We are speaking of our own experiences with God or the lack of which has formed our core belief.

...
Enlightened from all learning? You mean, like when I learned how to wire a switched outlet in my garage and didn't get electrocuted or start a structure fire? I should feel enlightened? That is something I learned. But, no... I was not elightened.
Enlightenment is not some mundane knowledge that comes with everyday life. It comes from knowledge of the great unknowns of life. And YES... knowing God... yeah, I believe that classifies under the category of 'enlightenment'.
And again... you hit the nail right on the head... "We are speaking of our own experiences with God or the lack of which has formed our core belief".
That has been the central point of this discussion... belief versus knowledge.

redrock

The term 'god' is so vague and used in many different ways, with many different gods. If one wants to debate 'god', it's existence, it's force, whether it's omniscient or not, an energy or something else, a theist (the 'believer') should be able to explain/define their 'god' is. Just saying 'god is' or 'god exists' or 'god knows' or ' you need to experience god' is just not good enough. I can talk about 'custard fondants' all I want but if I don't define what this is, it's like pissing in the wind. Also, I say the onus is on the theist because the atheist cannot define something that doesn't exist. And agreeing on some kind of definition of god is not just between theists and atheists but also between theists as one theist doesn't automatically see god the same way as the other.

Also, what is 'knowing' god? I know god, I know many gods but I guess I don't 'know' them the same way as some theists. Eg. a man 'knowing' a woman in biblical terms is not the same thing as a man 'knowing' a woman in our days - I know Byrnzie but I don't 'know' him, if you get my drift.

One doesn't need to want to 'know' god in order for someone to explain where they're coming from. If a blind person can 'grasp' the colour red (or whatever other colour), I'm sure an atheist/other theist can 'grasp' god if one is clear about what they are talking about. Unless a lack of relevant vocabulary is the reason one can't explain what they mean by a term they use.

Cosmo

inlet13 wrote:

The insecurity of some atheists is very, very apparent in this thread.... just read some of these posts.

...
Read other posts and you come away with believers as being irrational and delusional.
What is your point?

redrock

inlet13 wrote:

The insecurity of some atheists is very, very apparent in this thread.... just read some of these posts.

Don't see where you see insecurity of 'some' atheists in this thread. I see some theists that are very clear in their beliefs and explanations and some that are very 'wishy washy'. I see some that 'believe' because, without a belief in a superior being, they cannot see their purpose in life and others that believe because it's a 'safer bet'. These I could say they are insecure. I see some atheists that would like to understand a bit more as well. Of course there are those that are on the fence... fair enough.

What do you see as insecurity?

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

The term 'god' is so vague and used in many different ways, with many different gods. If one wants to debate 'god', it's existence, it's force, whether it's omniscient or not, an energy or something else, a theist (the 'believer') should be able to explain/define their 'god' is. Just saying 'god is' or 'god exists' or 'god knows' or ' you need to experience god' is just not good enough. I can talk about 'custard fondants' all I want but if I don't define what this is, it's like pissing in the wind. Also, I say the onus is on the theist because the atheist cannot define something that doesn't exist. And agreeing on some kind of definition of god is not just between theists and atheists but also between theists as one theist doesn't automatically see god the same way as the other.

Also, what is 'knowing' god? I know god, I know many gods but I guess I don't 'know' them the same way as some theists. Eg. a man 'knowing' a woman in biblical terms is not the same thing as a man 'knowing' a woman in our days - I know Byrnzie but I don't 'know' him, if you get my drift.

One doesn't need to want to 'know' god in order for someone to explain where they're coming from. If a blind person can 'grasp' the colour red (or whatever other colour), I'm sure an atheist/other theist can 'grasp' god if one is clear about what they are talking about. Unless a lack of relevant vocabulary is the reason one can't explain what they mean by a term they use.

This pretty much sums up the whole thread. Like someone else mentioned that those who believe in God feel pressured when asked in plain terms what God is, and they stumble for the right words. Why is this? Why can't believers provide a "truth" to why they believe God is real? Is it so mysterious that words can't articulate? Why can't believers just acknowledge that they don't have all the answers then?

Cosmo

Jeanwah wrote:

This pretty much sums up the whole thread. Like someone else mentioned that those who believe in God feel pressured when asked in plain terms what God is, and they stumble for the right words. Why is this? Why can't believers provide a "truth" to why they believe God is real? Is it so mysterious that words can't articulate? Why can't believers just acknowledge that they don't have all the answers then?

...
I don't speak for anyone, but yes... along my way I have asked many people and pretty much hear the same thing, that I need to have faith.
Faith in what? That what they are telling me the truth? If what they are telling me is the truth, it would nullify all those other who do not believe the same as they believe. That is basically what it boils down to.
...
So, i have come to accept this. That the faith in them, works for them. If it makes them feel secure... who am I to tell them otherwise? It doesn't mean i believe them. But, lack of my belief in their faith, should not shake them of their belief.
All I know is that no one knows. Theists don't know of God and Atheists don't know if God truely does not exist. All we can rely on is our beliefs.
To me, the quest to find God is the journey it takes you. In searching for God, we are searching for truth... that sets us on a path of knowledge and enlightenment. In our search for God and truth, we learn more about ourselves, than we do of God. Maybe, that's what God wants us to do.
Who knows?

pandora

inlet13 wrote:

The insecurity of some atheists is very, very apparent in this thread.... just read some of these posts.

I too have seen what appears to be insecurity.

Some here seem to need to be reassured
It also seems along with insecurity some have the need to dismiss others beliefs.
A sure sign of insecurity


I don't see this of believers, it appears they are secure in what they feel and know.

I am finding the believers to be respectful of those
who do not share their belief of God.

I haven't heard a believer ask others to prove there is no God,

nor dismiss the atheists beliefs when different than the believers.

It is unimportant to the believer. We have our truth.

Perhaps this is why some non believers are appearing insecure.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

Are we all not enlightened when we learn something new?
Did anyone here think anyone was speaking for someone else or just speaking of their own beliefs and experiences?
We are speaking of our own experiences with God or the lack of which has formed our core belief.

...
Enlightened from all learning? You mean, like when I learned how to wire a switched outlet in my garage and didn't get electrocuted or start a structure fire? I should feel enlightened? That is something I learned. But, no... I was not elightened.
Enlightenment is not some mundane knowledge that comes with everyday life. It comes from knowledge of the great unknowns of life. And YES... knowing God... yeah, I believe that classifies under the category of 'enlightenment'.
And again... you hit the nail right on the head... "We are speaking of our own experiences with God or the lack of which has formed our core belief".
That has been the central point of this discussion... belief versus knowledge.

You will feel enlightened when you wire it right next time. :?
this not the spiritual definition enlightment... I spoke of learning knowledge.
Definition of ENLIGHTENED

1
: freed from ignorance and misinformation <an enlightened people> <an enlightened time>
2
: based on full comprehension of the problems involved

I have learned knowledge from my interaction with God, by knowing God
and enjoying God in my life.

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I too have seen what appears to be insecurity.
Some here seem to need to be reassured It also seems along with insecurity some have the need to dismiss others beliefs. A sure sign of insecurity
I don't see this of believers, it appears they are secure in what they feel and know.
I am finding the believers to be respectful of those who do not share their belief of God.
I haven't heard a believer ask others to prove there is no God, nor dismiss the atheists beliefs when different than the believers. It is unimportant to the believer. We have our truth.
Perhaps this is why some non believers are appearing insecure.

...
Question: If you know God... then, wouldn't you have a better understanding of other people?