Why do we need to "believe" in God?

redrock

Shimmymommy....

pandora

catefrances wrote:

pandora wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

The insecurity of some atheists is very, very apparent in this thread.... just read some of these posts.

I too have seen what appears to be insecurity.

Some here seem to need to be reassured
It also seems along with insecurity some have the need to dismiss others beliefs.
A sure sign of insecurity


I don't see this of believers, it appears they are secure in what they feel and know.

I am finding the believers to be respectful of those
who do not share their belief of God.

I haven't heard a believer ask others to prove there is no God,

nor dismiss the atheists beliefs when different than the believers.

It is unimportant to the believer. We have our truth.

Perhaps this is why some non believers are appearing insecure.

are you kidding me pandora??? ive seen the look of pity on the face of believers when ive told them i am an atheist and then they tell me theyll pray for me.. how fucking arrogant is that??

belief in a God is absurd to me and that is why i dismiss it. it lacks rational thought... but i understand belief doesnt require rational thought.. all it requires is faith. i have zero respect for religion. and i can assure you despite my dismissal of any belief in God i am the furthest thing from insecure you could possibly be exposed to.

yes you are cate
and one of the people who backed up my point of not needing God in their lives

I was told that statement showed lack of understanding although I believe it to be
a true statement.

pandora

why do some ask then when they know the answers? And 20 some odd pages worth?

If I speak my heart and say I know God that does not dismiss anyones else's beliefs,
it is what I know. To deny what I know is not possible.

I am not asking anyone to know God nor believe what I am saying,

No one needs to acknowledge me or my relationship with God.

I will not change the way I speak of my love for God, my relationship with God,
my knowing God.

I will cry it from the highest mountain because God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

My convictions are strong I will share them and I will say what I feel.

In the future perhaps this can be considered...

I cannot define God to anyone

I cannot help someone know God

I cannot bring answers to those who search

these are personal quests between God and each individual


So I think that should cover my abilities and lack of so perhaps others will not ask again
my opinion has aways been one must find God, which for me is not religion,
on one's own.

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

why do some ask then when they know the answers? And 20 some odd pages worth?

If I speak my heart and say I know God that does not dismiss anyones else's beliefs,
it is what I know. To deny what I know is not possible.

I am not asking anyone to know God nor believe what I am saying,

No one needs to acknowledge me or my relationship with God.

I will not change the way I speak of my love for God, my relationship with God,
my knowing God.

I will cry it from the highest mountain because God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

My convictions are strong I will share them and I will say what I feel.

In the future perhaps this can be considered...

I cannot define God to anyone

I cannot help someone know God

I cannot bring answers to those who search

these are personal quests between God and each individual


So I think that should cover my abilities and lack of so perhaps others will not ask again
my opinion has aways been one must find God, which for me is not religion,
on one's own.

Great. We all get it. Now can you stop trying to ram this shit down everyone's throats at every opportunity? You are not a superior being, and you do not possess superior wisdom or knowledge than the rest of us. If you did then I'm pretty sure we'd have gotten an inkling of it by now. So maybe you can continue to enjoy your own personal relationship with this 'God' of yours and cut out all the patronizing talking-down-your-nose to everybody?
How's that for a deal?

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

Great. We all get it. Now can you stop trying to ram this shit down everyone's throats at every opportunity? You are not a superior being, and you do not possess superior wisdom or knowledge than the rest of us. If you did then I'm pretty sure we'd have gotten an inkling of it by now. So maybe you can continue to enjoy your own personal relationship with this 'God' of yours and cut out all the patronizing talking-down-your-nose to everybody?
How's that for a deal?

Never said I was superior but lets make sure the atheists don't pretend like they are..
fair exchange :thumbup:

And I will repeat here


I will not change the way I speak of my love for God, my relationship with God,
my knowing God

I will cry it from the highest mountain because God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

My convictions are strong I will share them and I will say what I feel

Its a deal... I am just me and I am proud to know God

JonnyPistachio

pandora wrote:

Its a deal... I am just me and I am proud to know God

it JUST came to me! all of this confusion...You've been talking about PJ all along!
Soooo, how exactly did you get to meet Eddie?!

I kid, of course...just breaking the tension a bit...

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

I will not change the way I speak of my love for God, my relationship with God,
my knowing God

I will cry it from the highest mountain because God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

My convictions are strong I will share them and I will say what I feel

Its a deal... I am just me and I am proud to know God

Considering you have made no attempt to explain what this 'God' of yours is, and have evaded every question aimed at understanding what you mean, your continual use of the word is utterly vacuous and meaningless.

catefrances

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

Never said I was superior

God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

At the risk of making a 'personal comment' and yet another banning:

Considering your reluctance to offer any explanation as to what you mean with your use of the word 'God', coupled with your repetitive attempts to convince us that you 'know' something we don't, I can only guess that your true motivation for posting here is simply to try and persuade us all that you are superior to the rest of us.

And yet you wonder why people here are always losing their patience with you? Do you think anyone enjoys being spoken to in a patronizing and condescending manner by someone who refuses to engage in any sort of honest discussion, but instead continually takes refuge behind smug references to her relationship with, and understanding of, 'God'?

Sorry, but this shit is already way past it's sell-by date.

pandora

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pandora wrote:

Its a deal... I am just me and I am proud to know God

it JUST came to me! all of this confusion...You've been talking about PJ all along!
Soooo, how exactly did you get to meet Eddie?!

I kid, of course...just breaking the tension a bit...

thank you!

how I wish Jonny ... he is one god I so want to meet but I am not worthy

maybe in the afterlife if I am so privileged...

g under p

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Never said I was superior

God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

At the risk of making a 'personal comment' and yet another banning:

Considering your reluctance to offer any explanation as to what you mean with your use of the word 'God', coupled with your repetitive attempts to convince us that you 'know' something we don't, I can only guess that your true motivation for posting here is simply to try and persuade us all that you are superior to the rest of us.

And yet you wonder why people here are always losing their patience with you? Do you think anyone enjoys being spoken to in a patronizing and condescending manner by someone who refuses to engage in any sort of honest discussion, but instead continually takes refuge behind smug references to her relationship with, and understanding of, 'God'?

Sorry, but this shit is already way past it's sell-by date.

I read through this thread without posting until now.....it amazes me now how these threads and others seems to disintegrate into wide fields of dismay. I got that feeling this would be the case once this thread was started. It appears the subject of religion on here mimics the state of religion around the world....a unending battle.

Peace

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

Never said I was superior

God is the essence of me.
God makes the best in me. God walks with me on my path
that leads through this life and beyond.
God is the answer to all worries, all pain. Once I knew God my life forever changed.
Once I knew there is an afterlife new meaning to this life became clear.

At the risk of making a 'personal comment' and yet another banning:

Considering your reluctance to offer any explanation as to what you mean with your use of the word 'God', coupled with your repetitive attempts to convince us that you 'know' something we don't, I can only guess that your true motivation for posting here is simply to try and persuade us all that you are superior to the rest of us.

And yet you wonder why people here are always losing their patience with you? Do you think anyone enjoys being spoken to in a patronizing and condescending manner by someone who refuses to engage in any sort of honest discussion, but instead continually takes refuge behind smug references to her relationship with, and understanding of, 'God'?

Sorry, but this shit is already way past it's sell-by date.

actually I think that was a very civilized comment... not mean really or anything
no name calling although alluding to my words as shit is a little condescending and rude.

I will say again I speak from my heart
of what I know and feel and I have no control over how people will take
my words, as none of us do,

but that will not keep me from sharing what I know and feel
as it doesn't seem to keep anyone else from speaking either.

Again I will repeat for your benefit

I cannot define God to anyone

I cannot help someone know God

I cannot bring answers to those who search

these are personal quests between God and each individual


in case you missed that part...
I can't and will not because this is between God and each individual,
God is not a definition... God is
the search for God is not between me and another individual ...
it is between God and each individual.

JonnyPistachio

g under p wrote:

It appears the subject of religion on here mimics the state of religion around the world....a unending battle.

Peace

Scary...too true. :(

pandora

God and religion are not one in the same
any battles come from man seeking power over man
not seeking God

it is a manmade division, the worst, done in the name of our creator
and the done in the belief of God

g under p

pandora wrote:

God and religion are not one in the same
any battles come from man seeking power over man
not seeking God

it is a manmade division, the worst, done in the name of our creator
and the done in the belief of God

Peace

JonnyPistachio

A little off track, but I just read this from Anne Rice, and it made perfect sense to me about religion (Christianity):

"I think the whole idea of Christ's bloody atonement does not make sense. It's an insult to God the Father to think that he would 1-- damn the whole creation over Adam and Eve, and 2-- send his Son to atone for sin and 3-- only settle for "the way being narrow" with only a few saved. I reject the ideas out of hand. If God is all powerful, all knowing and all loving, then Atonement theory makes no sense and never did make sense. What makes sense is a loving God who wants us to live a good and ethical life. Not a vengeful bloody tyrant. And I do think as well that the whole idea of Christ's sacrifice does not make sense. If he knew he was God, of course it is not the same as human suffering those things."

All really good points IMO..

ShimmyMommy

JonnyPistachio wrote:

A little off track, but I just read this from Anne Rice, and it made perfect sense to me about religion (Christianity):

"I think the whole idea of Christ's bloody atonement does not make sense. It's an insult to God the Father to think that he would 1-- damn the whole creation over Adam and Eve, and 2-- send his Son to atone for sin and 3-- only settle for "the way being narrow" with only a few saved. I reject the ideas out of hand. If God is all powerful, all knowing and all loving, then Atonement theory makes no sense and never did make sense. What makes sense is a loving God who wants us to live a good and ethical life. Not a vengeful bloody tyrant. And I do think as well that the whole idea of Christ's sacrifice does not make sense. If he knew he was God, of course it is not the same as human suffering those things."

All really good points IMO..

One of my favourite authors :thumbup:

inlet13

I still don't understand the atheist mentality here in this thread. It just seems to me that you continue to prick and prod one person in particular here and, to me, it shows an inherent insecurity. If you were secure in your faith in no God, I would think you would feel no need to keep picking and prodding. You'd let that person be in their faith in God and see no reason to continue to engage and torment their faith when it's obvious they believe in something you don't. In other words, let it be.

So, to deflect, I'll engage a bit...

A lot of you say who is God?

I say, to most people, God is the origin.

For me, it's more complex...

God is the origin of time and life, God is both time, non-time, life and death... he is everything. We, as humans, only understand time and life. Yet, we are all part of God outside of time and only separate or not directly part of God in our current life because of time, which God created to allow free will and individual life.

The reason I fear for atheists is simple: If you reject God in your life (in time), you may be rejecting God outside of time. To me, rejection of God "may be" hell, both on earth and in the afterlife. Like I said this is a fear... and I don't know. So, whether acceptance of God involves "belief" in God before death... I don't know. Who knows, maybe you can change right as you die. And who knows... It could be just your actions to other people that show your acceptance of God (afterall according to this, we're all pieces of God). But, regardless of those "could be" scenarios, like I've said before, I don't see it worth the risk for atheists. To me, a lot of atheists basically believe "they are God".... not "we all together form God"... or God is everything... instead, it's only themselves. That, to me, is the definition of hell.

So, in other words, I don't see God being a mighty judge, who gets upset if you don't believe or disbelieve. I kinda see it the opposite way. God wanted life and created and environment for us to enjoy and choose. If anyone chooses our fate here, it's most likely us as individuals. And it's not bad that he allows us to choose, in fact, that's the great part. So, therefore, if there even is a hell... it would be our choice to not be with God outside of time. We may be making that choice now.

Complicated,... I know. But, that's why I didn't want to get into my own personal beliefs. Please... let the attacks begin...

g under p

inlet13 wrote:

I still don't understand the atheist mentality here in this thread. It just seems to me that you continue to prick and prod one person in particular here and, to me, it shows an inherent insecurity. If you were secure in your faith in no God, I would think you would feel no need to keep picking and prodding. You'd let that person be in their faith in God and see no reason to continue to engage and torment their faith when it's obvious they believe in something you don't. In other words, let it be.

So, to deflect, I'll engage a bit...

A lot of you say who is God?

I say, to most people, God is the origin.

For me, it's more complex...

God is the origin of time and life, God is both time, non-time, life and death... he is everything. We, as humans, only understand time and life. Yet, we are all part of God outside of time and only separate or not directly part of God in our current life because of time, which God created to allow free will and individual life.

The reason I fear for atheists is simple: If you reject God in your life (in time), you may be rejecting God outside of time. To me, rejection of God "may be" hell, both on earth and in the afterlife. Like I said this is a fear... and I don't know. So, whether acceptance of God involves "belief" in God before death... I don't know. Who knows, maybe you can change right as you die. And who knows... It could be just your actions to other people that show your acceptance of God (afterall according to this, we're all pieces of God). But, regardless of those "could be" scenarios, like I've said before, I don't see it worth the risk for atheists. To me, a lot of atheists basically believe "they are God".... not "we all together form God"... or God is everything... instead, it's only themselves. That, to me, is the definition of hell.

So, in other words, I don't see God being a mighty judge, who gets upset if you don't believe or disbelieve. I kinda see it the opposite way. God wanted life and created and environment for us to enjoy and choose. If anyone chooses our fate here, it's most likely us as individuals. And it's not bad that he allows us to choose, in fact, that's the great part. So, therefore, if there even is a hell... it would be our choice to not be with God outside of time. We may be making that choice now.

Complicated,... I know. But, that's why I didn't want to get into my own personal beliefs. Please... let the attacks begin...

I understand your point....not complicated at all it's all on a personal level of his or her beliefs or non beliefs. That's why for the most part I tried to stay out of this.

Peace

BinauralJam

I Believe