Why do we need to "believe" in God?

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

My goal is to help others
not only here on the board but others who read the forum.

Help others with what? What makes you so sure that anybody needs or wants your help?

How about waiting for someone to ask for your help if that's what they choose to do, instead of presuming that everybody and anybody is looking to you for help or guidance?

Presuming that anybody here needs your help just reeks of arrogance and condescension.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

My goal is to help others
not only here on the board but others who read the forum.

Help others with what? What makes you so sure that anybody needs or wants your help?

How about waiting for someone to ask for your help if that's what they choose to do, instead of presuming that everybody and anybody is looking to you for help or guidance?

Presuming that anybody here needs your help just reeks of arrogance and condescension.

Boy are you off base...

We are all intertwined here in this life...
we touch others we do not even know in ways we do not know

can be just a smile and it can be by being unkind also ... :?

I do not presume anyone needs my help

I feel this...

that we are all a piece of the each others puzzle of life
good and bad we fit together for the picture we each will have of our life
after here as we journey on

Byrnzie

pandora wrote:

We are all intertwined here in this life...
we touch others we do not even know in ways we do not know

can be just a smile and it can be by being unkind also ... :?

I do not presume anyone needs my help

I feel this...

that we are all a piece of the each others puzzle of life
good and bad we fit together for the picture we each will have of our life
after here as we journey on

Is this supposed to be profound? Sorry, but it just sounds like mumbo jumbo to me. And don't go and interpret this to mean that I simply don't understand and that therefore I need your help.

With all due respect, The Moving Train is supposed to be a place for 'reasoned debate and discussion'.

As for anyone looking for, or needing help, why don't you just keep an eye on your pm's? I'm pretty sure that if anyone feels the need to ask for your guidance and/or help that they'll let you know about it.

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

Back to the question of needing to believe in a god, the Buddhist philosophy explains the why's in a way that I find very relevant and sums up things nicely- believe in yourself, search within to find yourself and not 'out there' to find an external source. This is what is said to explain the fact that those that follow this philosophy do not believe in a god (and yes this is about a god but also religion but not automatically together):

"There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:

"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Dp 188

Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

Great stuff!

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

You are wrong I can not and will not explain God to you because it is not between the two of us.
You will find God yourself... or not. Very plain and simple that is.
I know God. That is also plain and simple.
You can except any truth you like or not. This the very reason why I will not explain God to you.
God is not a definition to me. You will not find God in the logical.

...
It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong because there is no right or wrong. I'm not right or wrong... you are neither wrong nor right. Belief has no wrong nor right.
It boils down to, 'I don't believe you'... just as you do not believe in the doctrines or tennents of other religions. We accept those beliefs as personal convctions by the person who believes in them... we just don't happen to believe them.
Example: You say you know God. Which you really and truely believe. I accept that as your personal religion and wish you well. But, I don't believe as you and reject your doctrine as it applys to me... the same way I reject the beliefs of the David Koresh's, Usama bin Laden's and Jerry Falwell's out there. You are all telling me the same thing... that you know God. If it is so plain and simple... it would be simple to express in plain English. Which leads me to believe that either the person who tells me they know God, cannot express it because they do not know God... or they are selfish and claim God as their possession. We see this in religions and cults of all sizes.
The reason WHY no one, in the entire history of Man's existance, can describe or explain God is because God is beyond our comprehension... intellectually, spiritually and emotionally. People can convey their interpretations of God... but, that's as far as they get.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

pandora wrote:

You are wrong I can not and will not explain God to you because it is not between the two of us.
You will find God yourself... or not. Very plain and simple that is.
I know God. That is also plain and simple.
You can except any truth you like or not. This the very reason why I will not explain God to you.
God is not a definition to me. You will not find God in the logical.

...
It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong because there is no right or wrong. I'm not right or wrong... you are neither wrong nor right. Belief has no wrong nor right.
It boils down to, 'I don't believe you'... just as you do not believe in the doctrines or tennents of other religions. We accept those beliefs as personal convctions by the person who believes in them... we just don't happen to believe them.
Example: You say you know God. Which you really and truely believe. I accept that as your personal religion and wish you well. But, I don't believe as you and reject your doctrine as it applys to me... the same way I reject the beliefs of the David Koresh's, Usama bin Laden's and Jerry Falwell's out there. You are all telling me the same thing... that you know God. If it is so plain and simple... it would be simple to express in plain English. Which leads me to believe that either the person who tells me they know God, cannot express it because they do not know God... or they are selfish and claim God as their possession. We see this in religions and cults of all sizes.
The reason WHY no one, in the entire history of Man's existance, can describe or explain God is because God is beyond our comprehension... intellectually, spiritually and emotionally. People can convey their interpretations of God... but, that's as far as they get.

I meant about why I will not and can not explain to you...
you are wrong about that...
about my motives and ability and why I choose not to explain to you.

pandora

Byrnzie wrote:

pandora wrote:

We are all intertwined here in this life...
we touch others we do not even know in ways we do not know

can be just a smile and it can be by being unkind also ... :?

I do not presume anyone needs my help

I feel this...

that we are all a piece of the each others puzzle of life
good and bad we fit together for the picture we each will have of our life
after here as we journey on

Is this supposed to be profound? Sorry, but it just sounds like mumbo jumbo to me. And don't go and interpret this to mean that I simply don't understand and that therefore I need your help.

With all due respect, The Moving Train is supposed to be a place for 'reasoned debate and discussion'.

As for anyone looking for, or needing help, why don't you just keep an eye on your pm's? I'm pretty sure that if anyone feels the need to ask for your guidance and/or help that they'll let you know about it.

You miss the whole point of course ...you do not understand the connection,
that we are all intertwined.
That's ok I could have half expected that .. just mumbo jumbo to you as you said.
To you we might all be in a singular world I guess.

No you do not need my help ... help must come from a source you respect.
But if you feel you need help look into it.

And as I said my words are also directed at those people not members of the board.
Just people out and about, if they care to listen.

But with you not getting the interaction and importance of that in this life
the importance on our journey, then you can not understand my interest in sharing
and taking much from others, as well, the preciousness in that.

Do not reply to my posts if you feel they are not good enough for reasoned debate and discussion...
again you have a foe feature, but we've been through this before.

dasvidana

I think there is some thread-hijacking going on. Some of you need to take your bickering elsewhere.

Why do we need to believe in God? We don't. But if you do, all the best to you.

pandora

dasvidana wrote:

I think there is some thread-hijacking going on. Some of you need to take your bickering elsewhere.

Why do we need to believe in God? We don't. But if you do, all the best to you.

Yes, I said that pages ago no one needs to believe in God but those that do know God get
questioned at length about that

I agree it has been more about that than the topic...
I apologize to the OP for my part in that ...
sorry

iamica

Hey, I know I'm late jumping into this thread, but I have a question for the OP...are you asking why we need to believe in God from the perspective of why humans feel the need to believe in God, or are you asking why God would require/need us to believe in him? I was a little unclear and was just wondering.

Jason P

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I meant about why I will not and can not explain to you...
you are wrong about that... about my motives and ability and why I choose not to explain to you.

...
Fair enough.
But, does that mean your relationship with God is at a deeply personal relationship... that I (and others) cannot comprehend... or is it because it is so personal, it cannot be conveyed to others... or what?

brandon10

Jason P wrote:

At first glance I thought the jar said "Jews"...

blueandwhite

pandora wrote:

dasvidana wrote:

I think there is some thread-hijacking going on. Some of you need to take your bickering elsewhere.

Why do we need to believe in God? We don't. But if you do, all the best to you.

Yes, I said that pages ago no one needs to believe in God but those that do know God get
questioned at length about that

I agree it has been more about that than the topic...
I apologize to the OP for my part in that ...
sorry

Pandora, from what I've seen, the major issue of contention is your claim that you know god. Perhaps the problem is that you are intentionally misusing the word knowledge in a way that confounds and frustrates others who don't share your beliefs. The whole thing has become antagonistic so it's hardly surprising that the responses have been less than enthusiastic. When you deliberately mock people who disagree with you, it's not reasonable to expect kindness in return.

I respect everybody's right to believe what they choose (the whole freedom of religion thing). Once people start claiming that their beliefs are not in fact beliefs but actual knowledge, that's when things start to get nasty. You believe in God because you know it makes you feel positive. There's nothing wrong with that. Knowledge and belief are not the same thing.

pandora

blueandwhite wrote:

pandora wrote:

dasvidana wrote:

I think there is some thread-hijacking going on. Some of you need to take your bickering elsewhere.

Why do we need to believe in God? We don't. But if you do, all the best to you.

Yes, I said that pages ago no one needs to believe in God but those that do know God get
questioned at length about that

I agree it has been more about that than the topic...
I apologize to the OP for my part in that ...
sorry

Pandora, from what I've seen, the major issue of contention is your claim that you know god. Perhaps the problem is that you are intentionally misusing the word knowledge in a way that confounds and frustrates others who don't share your beliefs. The whole thing has become antagonistic so it's hardly surprising that the responses have been less than enthusiastic. When you deliberately mock people who disagree with you, it's not reasonable to expect kindness in return.

I respect everybody's right to believe what they choose (the whole freedom of religion thing). Once people start claiming that their beliefs are not in fact beliefs but actual knowledge, that's when things start to get nasty. You believe in God because you know it makes you feel positive. There's nothing wrong with that. Knowledge and belief are not the same thing.

I beg to differ... I know God.

This not to antagonize/mock nor debate nor make others understand. It just is.
I can not say it is anything but know, to do so would deny God and my miracle.

Something some may understand some may not

biggest point here is I have not asked anyone too understand,
nor said I would explain. One would think that would be the end. To each their own.

I know God others do not, some believe some do not.
There are many who know God, I have found though, I am not alone.

Again... God is not religion.

pandora

Jason P wrote:

I like the 'BIRDS' box

Cosmo

blueandwhite wrote:

Pandora, from what I've seen, the major issue of contention is your claim that you know god. Perhaps the problem is that you are intentionally misusing the word knowledge in a way that confounds and frustrates others who don't share your beliefs. The whole thing has become antagonistic so it's hardly surprising that the responses have been less than enthusiastic. When you deliberately mock people who disagree with you, it's not reasonable to expect kindness in return.

I respect everybody's right to believe what they choose (the whole freedom of religion thing). Once people start claiming that their beliefs are not in fact beliefs but actual knowledge, that's when things start to get nasty. You believe in God because you know it makes you feel positive. There's nothing wrong with that. Knowledge and belief are not the same thing.

...
Thank you, BlueAndWhite. You say it so simply, yet, so eloquently.
My problem is my scatter brain... which explains the dot dot dot thing as my mind shifts focus and tries to get back on track. The other problem I have is finding the right words to convey my scattered thoughts and arrange them in some sort of order. Plus, I've never been a big fan of those smiley face things... which, I suppose, makes people think I am more serious than I am in real life... my odd sense of humor doesn't help, either.
Anyway, YES... that's basically what I'm saying. If David Koresh claimed to know God and Pandora claims to know God... and I don't know either person... but, want to know the truth... I have to believe both are telling me the truth... or both of them are not... right?

Cosmo

pandora wrote:

I beg to differ... I know God.
This not to antagonize/mock nor debate nor make others understand. It just is. I can not say it is anything but know, to do so would deny God and my miracle. Something some may understand some may not biggest point here is I have not asked anyone too understand, nor said I would explain. One would think that would be the end. To each their own.
I know God others do not, some believe some do not.
There are many who know God, I have found though, I am not alone.
Again... God is not religion.

...
I don't think anyone one is asking you to deny what you believe... leastwise, I'm not.
But, you raise a question... in finding that others have found God... in your discussions with them, are you able to explain God to them?

pandora

blueandwhite wrote:

it's not reasonable to expect kindness in return.

I think it is reasonable to always expect kindness in return

we may not get it but we can all strive for that whether we agree or not

and those who give kindness in return remain a beautiful example for all

dasvidana

It fascinates me following the last few posts by all of you. The simple definition of spirituality is the meaning of existence. So, for some, that means religion. For others, that means God. For others, it means nature, and so on. But when you are saying that you are in search of truth, that is something different. Truth is based in what has evidence, whereas faith may have evidence but does not require it. Not trying to change anyone's opinion on anything, just pointing out that terms are getting tangled up here.