OCCUPY WALL STREET - Spreading

bgivens33

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

this movement is not about tyranny or the loss of liberty. i wish people on the right would stop trying to characterize it like that and i wish they would stop the default argument that we are somehow so oppressed by some tyrant in the white house who has not and can not take away your liberty. it is not about patriotism or the concept of liberty and the loss of liberty...

stop taking the focus off of the reason people are protesting.

it is about the bankers making out like robber barons at the expense of regular people and it is about the ever expanding discrepancy of wealth and how regular working people are fucked and how there are no jobs.

if you channeled your anger at the real people that are oppressing you instead of having some smoke and mirrors theory blaming obama for everything you might just begin to understand where people involved in this movement are coming from...

if i remember correctly you said in the past that you have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. these people are protesting against that and they are on your side because you deserve better than having to do that. nobody deserves to have to work 3 or 4 jobs just to make ends meet.

What specifically have the bankers done to make out like robber barons?

gimmesometruth27

bgivens33 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

this movement is not about tyranny or the loss of liberty. i wish people on the right would stop trying to characterize it like that and i wish they would stop the default argument that we are somehow so oppressed by some tyrant in the white house who has not and can not take away your liberty. it is not about patriotism or the concept of liberty and the loss of liberty...

stop taking the focus off of the reason people are protesting.

it is about the bankers making out like robber barons at the expense of regular people and it is about the ever expanding discrepancy of wealth and how regular working people are fucked and how there are no jobs.

if you channeled your anger at the real people that are oppressing you instead of having some smoke and mirrors theory blaming obama for everything you might just begin to understand where people involved in this movement are coming from...

if i remember correctly you said in the past that you have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. these people are protesting against that and they are on your side because you deserve better than having to do that. nobody deserves to have to work 3 or 4 jobs just to make ends meet.

What specifically have the bankers done to make out like robber barons?

do you really need me to answer that?

bgivens33

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

bgivens33 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

this movement is not about tyranny or the loss of liberty. i wish people on the right would stop trying to characterize it like that and i wish they would stop the default argument that we are somehow so oppressed by some tyrant in the white house who has not and can not take away your liberty. it is not about patriotism or the concept of liberty and the loss of liberty...

stop taking the focus off of the reason people are protesting.

it is about the bankers making out like robber barons at the expense of regular people and it is about the ever expanding discrepancy of wealth and how regular working people are fucked and how there are no jobs.

if you channeled your anger at the real people that are oppressing you instead of having some smoke and mirrors theory blaming obama for everything you might just begin to understand where people involved in this movement are coming from...

if i remember correctly you said in the past that you have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. these people are protesting against that and they are on your side because you deserve better than having to do that. nobody deserves to have to work 3 or 4 jobs just to make ends meet.

What specifically have the bankers done to make out like robber barons?

do you really need me to answer that?

I guess I don't really need you to do anything... just looking for some examples, that's all.

whygohome

bgivens33 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

this movement is not about tyranny or the loss of liberty. i wish people on the right would stop trying to characterize it like that and i wish they would stop the default argument that we are somehow so oppressed by some tyrant in the white house who has not and can not take away your liberty. it is not about patriotism or the concept of liberty and the loss of liberty...

stop taking the focus off of the reason people are protesting.

it is about the bankers making out like robber barons at the expense of regular people and it is about the ever expanding discrepancy of wealth and how regular working people are fucked and how there are no jobs.

if you channeled your anger at the real people that are oppressing you instead of having some smoke and mirrors theory blaming obama for everything you might just begin to understand where people involved in this movement are coming from...

if i remember correctly you said in the past that you have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. these people are protesting against that and they are on your side because you deserve better than having to do that. nobody deserves to have to work 3 or 4 jobs just to make ends meet.

What specifically have the bankers done to make out like robber barons?

Start here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/toplis ... risis.html
http://www.time.com/time/business/artic ... 1723152,00.
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/arti ... cleid=2114
http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes ... ng-market/
http://daviddegraw.org/2011/08/banana-r ... -in-taxes/
http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies ... 45634384/1
a good blog: http://www.cepr.net/index.php/beat-the-press/

bennett13

They had one of those occupy protests in my home town this weekend. It was truly hilarious. First, they picked a Saturday to protest in front of the courthouse, which is closed on Saturday.
Then, it seemed that they had no idea what they were protesting or why. They just wanted to protest something. One even had a sign that said "BRING BACK FIREFLY". Really? I never watched the show, but I heard it was pretty good, but I doubt the folks in the courthouse of my little city had anything to do with its cancellation.
The rest of the protest reminded me very much of the witch-burning scene from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."

The following link may contain the most succinct explanation of the protests that I have heard so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW56Z-0xwIQ

Johnny Abruzzo

Haven't really been following this discussion, but here's a really good article about student loans:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-debt-crisis-at-american-colleges/243777/

and a quote:

Still, there's a difference. With mortgage defaults, banks seize and resell the home. But if a degree can't be sold, that doesn't deter the banks. They essentially wrote the student loan law, in which the fine-print says they aren't "dischargable." So even if you file for bankruptcy, the payments continue due. Hence these stern word from Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers. "You will be hounded for life," he warns. "They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. You become ineligible for federal employment." He adds that any professional license can be revoked and Social Security checks docked when you retire. We can't think of any other statute with such sadistic provisions.

I was smart enough as a 17-year old to know I didn't want to owe money after finishing college, so I sensibly got a state-school education and commuted to school (and got some scholarships to reduce the $6,000 tuition; honestly this wasn't all that long ago). Of course, I didn't get that "college experience" that many get, which is definitely something I regret. But I sure don't regret the "college experience" of paying back loans for 30 years either.

I guess a lot of these kids were raised by parents who are irresponsible with money themselves and didn't teach proper money management, and they get suckered into taking these huge loans that they can't possibly pay back. I really don't know what the answer is to this. It's definitely a fucked up system.

cincybearcat

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Haven't really been following this discussion, but here's a really good article about student loans:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-debt-crisis-at-american-colleges/243777/

and a quote:

Still, there's a difference. With mortgage defaults, banks seize and resell the home. But if a degree can't be sold, that doesn't deter the banks. They essentially wrote the student loan law, in which the fine-print says they aren't "dischargable." So even if you file for bankruptcy, the payments continue due. Hence these stern word from Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers. "You will be hounded for life," he warns. "They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. You become ineligible for federal employment." He adds that any professional license can be revoked and Social Security checks docked when you retire. We can't think of any other statute with such sadistic provisions.

I was smart enough as a 17-year old to know I didn't want to owe money after finishing college, so I sensibly got a state-school education and commuted to school (and got some scholarships to reduce the $6,000 tuition; honestly this wasn't all that long ago). Of course, I didn't get that "college experience" that many get, which is definitely something I regret. But I sure don't regret the "college experience" of paying back loans for 30 years either.

I guess a lot of these kids were raised by parents who are irresponsible with money themselves and didn't teach proper money management, and they get suckered into taking these huge loans that they can't possibly pay back. I really don't know what the answer is to this. It's definitely a fucked up system.

I love the words used... "hounded for life" "intercept your tax refunds"...

And then you say "they get suckered".

How do they get suckered actually? Because if this OWS is all about Students not wanting to pay their loans back, I'm 100% against the OWS. It's crazy talk.

whygohome

cincybearcat wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Haven't really been following this discussion, but here's a really good article about student loans:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-debt-crisis-at-american-colleges/243777/

and a quote:

Still, there's a difference. With mortgage defaults, banks seize and resell the home. But if a degree can't be sold, that doesn't deter the banks. They essentially wrote the student loan law, in which the fine-print says they aren't "dischargable." So even if you file for bankruptcy, the payments continue due. Hence these stern word from Barmak Nassirian of the American Association of College Registrars and Admissions Officers. "You will be hounded for life," he warns. "They will garnish your wages. They will intercept your tax refunds. You become ineligible for federal employment." He adds that any professional license can be revoked and Social Security checks docked when you retire. We can't think of any other statute with such sadistic provisions.

I was smart enough as a 17-year old to know I didn't want to owe money after finishing college, so I sensibly got a state-school education and commuted to school (and got some scholarships to reduce the $6,000 tuition; honestly this wasn't all that long ago). Of course, I didn't get that "college experience" that many get, which is definitely something I regret. But I sure don't regret the "college experience" of paying back loans for 30 years either.

I guess a lot of these kids were raised by parents who are irresponsible with money themselves and didn't teach proper money management, and they get suckered into taking these huge loans that they can't possibly pay back. I really don't know what the answer is to this. It's definitely a fucked up system.

I love the words used... "hounded for life" "intercept your tax refunds"...

And then you say "they get suckered".

How do they get suckered actually? Because if this OWS is all about Students not wanting to pay their loans back, I'm 100% against the OWS. It's crazy talk.

It's not at all what we are about. it's about getting a return on the investment you made in your education. People are disillusioned; they feel that the system that they bought into--the loans--has crumbled and now they feel that they don't even have a chance to use the education that they payed for. When institutions become for-profit instead of for people, e.g. healthcare, education, then you have problems

dignin

for people wondering what OWS is about...for me anyways, listen to one of our greatest Canadians. He explains things perfectly and his passion is unreal. This isnt about kids trying to get someone else to pay their loans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTDxUicSmo

whygohome

dignin wrote:

for people wondering what OWS is about...for me anyways, listen to one of our greatest Canadians. He explains things perfectly and his passion is unreal. This isnt about kids trying to get someone else to pay their loans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTDxUicSmo

fucking beautiful

Juju Mtl

dignin wrote:

I wish I could attend one of these protests but I live in Canada. Kick ass my fellow brave Americans and stay safe.

For those in Canada, we are occupying Toronto, Montreal... Please be there!!!

Jeanwah

dignin wrote:

for people wondering what OWS is about...for me anyways, listen to one of our greatest Canadians. He explains things perfectly and his passion is unreal. This isnt about kids trying to get someone else to pay their loans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTDxUicSmo

David Suzuki is the man!

whygohome

“There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!”

- UC Berkeley Free Speech Movement leader Mario Savio, 1964

gimmesometruth27

whygohome wrote:

“There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!”

- UC Berkeley Free Speech Movement leader Mario Savio, 1964

i love that speech. there is a lot of video of it on youtube.

gimmesometruth27

you have to look past his striking resemblance to Kramer and listen to what he has to say...

Mario Savio Dec 2, 1964

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhFvZRT7Ds0

whygohome

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you have to look past his striking resemblance to Kramer and listen to what he has to say...

Mario Savio Dec 2, 1964

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhFvZRT7Ds0

I love it; and this is why I love the Occupy protests: people showing a sincere desire to fight injustice.
What happened to us? We became lazy and arrogant; we were brainwashed into thinking that life is just a race to see who has the most expensive car or the biggest TV. We became more interested in the lives of celebrities than in the lives of our friends and neighbors; we've been distracted by the latest sale at the mall and the latest TV "talent" show. We, as a nation, were on top for so long, and we forgot what we did to get there.
In middle school, I remember that there were kids who were taller than everyone, who already had mustaches. These kids were looked up to--literally and figuratively--and seemed to be well ahead of the pack. But then, as junior year of high school came around, everyone else caught up to these kids: they stopped growing and everyone else finally hit a growth spurt. And then, in senior year, everyone was pretty much on the same playing field. The United States was that tall kid; the United States was the 7th grader with the mustache. But that was a long time ago, and now we are all seniors.
It was bound to happen, and it obviously all started on January 20, 2009....


(but yeah, I couldn't stop imagining Mario busting through the door and asking Jerry to borrow his spatula)

Jason P

whygohome wrote:

It was bound to happen, and it obviously all started on January 20, 2009....

It took a special man to disgruntle the majority of America to the point that no one trusts the government anymore.

EdsonNascimento

[quote="whygohome"I love it; and this is why I love the Occupy protests: people showing a sincere desire to fight injustice.
What happened to us? We became lazy and arrogant; we were brainwashed into thinking that life is everyone gets what their neighbor gets and if they don't earn it, we'll give it to them. We became more interested in the lives of celebrities than in our own lives; we've been distracted by the latest sale at the mall and the latest TV "talent" show. We, as a nation, decided to baby our kids and tell them it's alright, nobody's really a loser, and we forgot what we did to get there.
In middle school, I remember that there were kids who were taller than everyone, who already had mustaches. These kids were looked up to--literally and figuratively--and seemed to be well ahead of the pack. But instead of admiting that, our parents told us, don't worry - you are just as tall and mustachioed as them, don't believe your eyes. But then, as junior year of high school came around, everyone else caught up to these kids: they stopped growing and everyone else finally hit a growth spurt. Then our parents told us - see? They suck - you are better than them and deserve more accolades than them, screw equality for everyone. And then, in senior year, everyone was NOT on the same playing field, and our parents told the "lesser" kids that they deserved whatever the smart kids got even if they weren't really smarter, but were just more dedicated and working harder (or maybe, it was simply that they were smarter - that happens). My enemy was that tall kid and was the 7th grader with the mustache. But that was a long time ago, and now we are all seniors and our parents were wrong - we can't just demand we get what someone else has. We may have a tougher row than someone else, but all that means is we have to work harder to get our share of the American Dream. But, goddamn it!!! We're going to do just that rather than blaming someone else for our "misfortune."
It was bound to happen, and it obviously all started when we were in grade school....
[/quote]

Johnny Abruzzo

Jason P wrote:

whygohome wrote:

It was bound to happen, and it obviously all started on January 20, 2009....

It took a special man to disgruntle the majority of America to the point that no one trusts the government anymore.

I have this strange memory of the stock market crashing, 2 wars (one of them surely needless) raging, and bailouts galore, long before 1/20/09. I must have been dreaming.

Jason P

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Jason P wrote:

whygohome wrote:

It was bound to happen, and it obviously all started on January 20, 2009....

It took a special man to disgruntle the majority of America to the point that no one trusts the government anymore.

I have this strange memory of the stock market crashing, 2 wars (one of them surely needless) raging, and bailouts galore, long before 1/20/09. I must have been dreaming.

true dat. i guess the system has finally reached a boiling point.