by that i mean don't you plan on making more from your worker than you pay them...
Seems logical to me, especially if you want to stay in business.
obviously...that's capitalism...how little i can pay you to do the job without you going out and occupying my financial districts.
Not everyone who runs a business is Montgomery Burns.
But I find it reasonable that my employer makes more from my efforts then I get paid. If they didn’t, I would probably be looking for work right now.
And if I had a major beef with that, then it’s up to me to go out and start my own business, even if it’s just me working as a consultant. That way, I would be getting paid the same amount that my current employer makes off of me.
Of course, I would have a lot of early expenses on equipment, insurance, traveling, paperwork, etc that my current employer handles. I wouldn't have an I.T. department, human resources, or any administration resources at my disposal. And there would be the risk of having my house and belongings taken from me if my business venture fails or I'm hit with litigation.
i agree with everything you just said, but isn't the game then rigged so that someone with more capital (oftentimes born into the situation and given free handout education by their parents) has more chances to invest and fuck up. Case in point, my uncle grew up very poor in upstate NY, now he is a partner is a business making high end AV things in rich people's houses in DC. If his business fails his family is fucked (luckily he's doing well), whereas his partner (who grew up wealthy) has three or four businesses so if this one goes under, it sucks, but it's just one less christmas present under the tree. How is that a just and equal system?
You are right. Where you start out from does make a big difference in life.
What do you want to do about that? That begin to sound like jealousy. Nobody said life is fair. However, your uncle had the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness as his partner (notice that does not say hapiness, but PURSUIT of happiness).
So, we should tax his partner because he has more wealth to begin with? Or should your Uncle make more in the business they share even if they do the same work and/or have equal investment b/c his partner has something else to make money on?
You seem to be proving the fact that folks think this OSW is all about folks worried about what the other guy has. You should be celebrating your Uncle's success. Sounds like a real American Dream Story.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
i haven't read this entire thread ... but like i've been saying ... the whole thing needs to be blown up ... the game is rigged ... not everyone knows everything but everyone's foundation that big corporations and the gov't are complicit in this fraud is spot on ...
i agree with everything you just said, but isn't the game then rigged so that someone with more capital (oftentimes born into the situation and given free handout education by their parents) has more chances to invest and fuck up. Case in point, my uncle grew up very poor in upstate NY, now he is a partner is a business making high end AV things in rich people's houses in DC. If his business fails his family is fucked (luckily he's doing well), whereas his partner (who grew up wealthy) has three or four businesses so if this one goes under, it sucks, but it's just one less christmas present under the tree. How is that a just and equal system?
why does everything have to be equal? should Steve Job's kid have to go to a public school because you think it's not fair he can start his own business and fail because his daddy was successful? i really don't get that argument at all. just seems like this generation and this movement has this notion that everyone should earn $100k+ and have no bills, no debt, and no concerns. that's not really reality. there have been many generations who have lived paycheck-to-paycheck and survived and thrived. not sure why this generation thinks they are entitled to more than that.
that's not what my point was...it was basically saying how can you get mad about kids wanting higher pay out of college when their tuitions are increasing. I was also pointing out how super freaking lucky I was to ONLY have 72k in debt after getting a PhD...most people I know are crossing the 100k barrier after 4 years of college. There's no rule that says you get a high paying job by going to school, but jesus where is this money they are paying to school going, and why isn't it reflected in someone's pay somewhere?
As someone else said
cost of education does not = salary expectation.
I know I chose my career based on my (realistic) likes (as in I don't get to be Derek Jeter), aptitude and future potential salary. I didn't go get a degree in English which cost just as much as the degree I got and expect to make the salary I made coming out of school. All 4 year degrees pretty much cost the same (at the same school). But, you also know what your realistic options are leaving school are based on the chosen degree.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
i agree with everything you just said, but isn't the game then rigged so that someone with more capital (oftentimes born into the situation and given free handout education by their parents) has more chances to invest and fuck up. Case in point, my uncle grew up very poor in upstate NY, now he is a partner is a business making high end AV things in rich people's houses in DC. If his business fails his family is fucked (luckily he's doing well), whereas his partner (who grew up wealthy) has three or four businesses so if this one goes under, it sucks, but it's just one less christmas present under the tree. How is that a just and equal system?
why does everything have to be equal? should Steve Job's kid have to go to a public school because you think it's not fair he can start his own business and fail because his daddy was successful? i really don't get that argument at all. just seems like this generation and this movement has this notion that everyone should earn $100k+ and have no bills, no debt, and no concerns. that's not really reality. there have been many generations who have lived paycheck-to-paycheck and survived and thrived. not sure why this generation thinks they are entitled to more than that.
If everything doesn't need to be equal, then the majority should force their hand and tax the stuffing out of the wealthy minority.
Why is it okay for somebody to be born into a bad situation, or to be extremely educated yet unable to find meaningful work because they lack connections, but it's not okay to tax one group that has enjoyed a massive advantage over the rest of the population?
And lets be honest, this generation doesn't earn anything close to $100k. I have three degrees and I barely hit the $50k mark. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is wealthy individuals telling me that I need to earn even less, give up on any basic social security and be prepared to be laid off so that governments can continue to pump large corporate turkeys full of taxpayer money they don't need; money which will inevitably be paid in bonuses to individuals who didn't earn them.
If you keep kicking down the middle class they might start to kick back.
i agree that there are jobs out there, but if salaries are stagnating and schooling prices rise then somethings going to break. take me for example finished a PhD (2-years of community college (where only 23% of students graduate with a 4-years degree) and no debt, 3-years of private college (where mommy's and daddy's make rich kids dreams come true) $15k b/c of major scholarship help, and work on the side, 6-years of graduate school at UMD (lived for 3 years in my uncle's basement until I couldn't do it anymore) $57k more debt. So I come out with a PhD and get offered $55k to teach at a Research IA institution with $72k in school loans, plus looking to buy a home with my wife who luckily had rich parents put her through 6 years of private school for a Master's Degree. Additionally, I've earned Base+Merit increases each of my first 3 years at this University because of my hard work and the school hasn't granted those increases once. In fact, they've asked me to take furloughs each year instead. Even though professors aren't seeing the money, tuition is increasing so people coming through this behind me are getting FUCKED, and are expected to keep taking starting salaries like I have with tons more debt?
since when was it mandated that IF you graduate college you are supposed to get a high paying job and should be able to immediately afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood. seems like you are aiming to be the same people you are supposedly protesting against.
and hey i understand being in debt sucks balls but living in your parents house/or uncle's basement in this country is still a lot better off than a hell of a lot of people in the world. let's not make it out to be 3rd world living that these graduates are living in.
that's not what my point was...it was basically saying how can you get mad about kids wanting higher pay out of college when their tuitions are increasing. I was also pointing out how super freaking lucky I was to ONLY have 72k in debt after getting a PhD...most people I know are crossing the 100k barrier after 4 years of college. There's no rule that says you get a high paying job by going to school, but jesus where is this money they are paying to school going, and why isn't it reflected in someone's pay somewhere?
Seriously, I really recommend you take an economics class. Just cause something is high in demand (which raises prices) does not mean that product (in this case - higher education) has a great value as an investment. Particularly, when lots of people have that product (higher education) already. It's simple supply and demand. Seriously, digest that for a moment. What you are saying here is very much, ridiculous.
Since you keep going to the PhD thing, I'll respond. I have a PhD and have ZERO loan debt. I decided to get my PhD because I weighed the cost vs benefit. I realized it would cost me a lot, but I was offered a grant and stipend, which helped "slightly" as an immediate benefit. If I hadn't gotten that, I may not have gone through with it (because I understood it's an investment and never thought the government would or should "bail me out"). Even with that though, I would be very poor in the immediate term for 5 to 6 years. Basically, I lost a lot of the "fun" I could have had in my 20s studying and living with my parents, while my friends went out and spent the money they made while working. Yet, I sacrificed and worked while I went to school to do the best I could to end school with limited debt.
Once I got my PhD, I only had so much debt, that I immediately paid off within a year. My point in mentioning this is not to brag, it's to say if this wasn't the case, I most likely wouldn't have gone back for a PhD. I'm not a moron, I thought it through. I looked at school as an investment. Sure, this investment could have gone sour. Who knows, maybe down the line it still will. But, to act as though the government.... the fucking government.... should be there to bail out my bad decisions is laughable. I hate that thought. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out my poor decisions? should I count on that? Fuck no. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out corporations bad decisions? That's why I hate the bailouts, it's the same story. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out anyone's dumb decisions?... including yours.
When I got out of school for good and wasn't making quite as much as I wanted.... guess what I did? I realized that the job I had was "cake" compared to my friends. The reason it was cake: I had a PhD. And the truth: PhDs typically do very little real "hard" labor-intensive work. So, guess what I did.... I got ANOTHER job. OMG. Yes, two. So, I'm teaching college and working in research. I'm making money.... why?.... because I worked on it and didn't bitch at a protest in center city. Right now, I have two jobs and my wife is home with our child. That was important to me, and I worked on making it a reality.... with no help.
I'll end on this... When are we going to be responsible for our own fucking decisions? I'm so sick of this "woah is me"... I got a PhD and I can't find a job that pays enough... bullshit. Go to Africa and cry to them. Go to China and cry to them. They want what you have. And guess what, they won't stop until they get it. Go fucking work for it and stop bitching.
I'm understand this system isn't fair, and never was, but I'm not down with making that unfairness even more unfair. I don't think that in a country of innovators, dreamers, and whatever else we are told we are that we should live in a country that would not want to house, feed, educate, nurture, and raise our/my child/ren should something go wrong. Why don't we care and respect each other in a way that speaks to all of us in ways that all of us can understand?
inlet are you saying that if you are poor you shouldn't go get a PhD? If it's financially feasible only for the wealthy where is the equity in that? I've worked so many jobs I can't tell you, but I also got a second job to help us prepare for a child, and have chosen to teach winter and summer (when @ my institution I should either be on vacation or doing research) so that my child can grow up a lot more comfortably. I have worked really hard to get here, but when I look back at where I came from so did a lot of people who didn't get as lucky as me. Maybe it was luck and I should be happy, but I know I was not the smartest, best, or brightest kid in the school and I think it sucks that I get this and others couldn't fathom it.
I'm understand this system isn't fair, and never was, but I'm not down with making that unfairness even more unfair. I don't think that in a country of innovators, dreamers, and whatever else we are told we are that we should live in a country that would not want to house, feed, educate, nurture, and raise our/my child/ren should something go wrong. Why don't we care and respect each other in a way that speaks to all of us in ways that all of us can understand?
inlet are you saying that if you are poor you shouldn't go get a PhD? If it's financially feasible only for the wealthy where is the equity in that? I've worked so many jobs I can't tell you, but I also got a second job to help us prepare for a child, and have chosen to teach winter and summer (when @ my institution I should either be on vacation or doing research) so that my child can grow up a lot more comfortably. I have worked really hard to get here, but when I look back at where I came from so did a lot of people who didn't get as lucky as me. Maybe it was luck and I should be happy, but I know I was not the smartest, best, or brightest kid in the school and I think it sucks that I get this and others couldn't fathom it.
No, I'm not saying "if you are poor you shouldn't get a PhD"! Where the fuck, pardon my language, did you get that from? I was fucking poor! I said that or should have. Yet, I got one! I also know plenty of "really, really poor" people.... PLENTY... who got their PhD.... guess where most of them where from? Give you a hint.... NOT THE U.S. Yet, they figured it out.... through DETERMINATION.
Difference between you and me:
I look at people who want something, and I see the world like they are "capable of attaining it if they stay focused".... your kind (from what I've read), at least in my opinion, look at the world and think "they are only capable if the government helps them". I say BULLSHIT to that.
that's a fair way to look at things, and I don't discount it. Hell, given our back histories, I should look at things the way you do, but I don't. The reason I don't look at things that way is because I truly believe that if everyone is treated equally we can get the best out of our best. I admit that I could be wrong, but I also believe that I am right.
that's a fair way to look at things, and I don't discount it. Hell, given our back histories, I should look at things the way you do, but I don't. The reason I don't look at things that way is because I truly believe that if everyone is treated equally we can get the best out of our best. I admit that I could be wrong, but I also believe that I am right.
My response:
In truth, deep down...
No one will EVER be treated equally. EVER. We're too inherently different in our origin and our origins environment (an to me... that's just fine). So, it's really impossible to "even the playing field". And the issue with doing that (even if you do think there's merit to trying to even it, which I don't)... is there's a cost: Economic Growth. There's a trade-off between economic growth and equality.
The reason I think capitalism is so good is this:
Although the richest have certainly gotten richer (when there's a ten percent rise in EVERYONE's incomes this always happens)... and yes, the gap between the rich and the poor has grown (same rationale as the previous parenthesis).... Since the advent of capitalism a few other things have happened, including: the mean income has risen substantially (worldwide), living standards jumped significantly, and for the poorest of the poor (living standards have improved and incomes have risen).
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
You and I both posted about this, and no one responded . . .
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
You and I both posted about this, and no one responded . . .
this is bad. this sort of behavior from the cops is going to anger a lot of people. it is going to radicalize people because now for the victims of violence it has become personal. when you get beat in the head with a billy club, teargassed, or shot with rubber bullets for doing nothing other than exercising your right to peaceably assemble, how would you feel?
this is going to embolden the protesters and it is going to draw more people to the location being occupied. people who were neutral are going to now be swayed one way or the other.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
You and I both posted about this, and no one responded . . .
It's a very bad deal.
Unfortunately, this seems to becoming standard operating procedures for the Oakland law enforcement. Seems like they kill or main a civilian at least once a year when it wasn't justifiable.
There is no reason they need to shoot propelled canisters. They could have easily hand-tossed the tear gas, if they felt it was warranted.
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
You and I both posted about this, and no one responded . . .
It's a very bad deal.
Unfortunately, this seems to becoming standard operating procedures for the Oakland law enforcement. Seems like they kill or main a civilian at least once a year when it wasn't justifiable.
There is no reason they need to shoot propelled canisters. They could have easily hand-tossed the tear gas, if they felt it was warranted.
they reported on the news this morning he was shot with a "non-lethal projectile" and a witness who helped treat the injured soldier was on the radio saying that he kept "rubber bullets from the scene of the incident, some as large as a ping-pong ball, as evidence."
so if they used projectiles from close range, that is even more bullshit than shooting teargas cannisters into the crowd.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
Unbelievable. This is just so bad, but when power is threatened, it seems they'll do anything to remain in control. It makes police look so bad, and they're not doing much to redeem their sinking image in Oakland. Did people see my link for the police in Albany, NY (my area)? They are like heroes, here. http://www.timesunion.com/local/article ... z1bhYjL6xj
I'm understand this system isn't fair, and never was, but I'm not down with making that unfairness even more unfair. I don't think that in a country of innovators, dreamers, and whatever else we are told we are that we should live in a country that would not want to house, feed, educate, nurture, and raise our/my child/ren should something go wrong. Why don't we care and respect each other in a way that speaks to all of us in ways that all of us can understand?
inlet are you saying that if you are poor you shouldn't go get a PhD? If it's financially feasible only for the wealthy where is the equity in that? I've worked so many jobs I can't tell you, but I also got a second job to help us prepare for a child, and have chosen to teach winter and summer (when @ my institution I should either be on vacation or doing research) so that my child can grow up a lot more comfortably. I have worked really hard to get here, but when I look back at where I came from so did a lot of people who didn't get as lucky as me. Maybe it was luck and I should be happy, but I know I was not the smartest, best, or brightest kid in the school and I think it sucks that I get this and others couldn't fathom it.
No, I'm not saying "if you are poor you shouldn't get a PhD"! Where the fuck, pardon my language, did you get that from? I was fucking poor! I said that or should have. Yet, I got one! I also know plenty of "really, really poor" people.... PLENTY... who got their PhD.... guess where most of them where from? Give you a hint.... NOT THE U.S. Yet, they figured it out.... through DETERMINATION.
Difference between you and me:
I look at people who want something, and I see the world like they are "capable of attaining it if they stay focused".... your kind (from what I've read), at least in my opinion, look at the world and think "they are only capable if the government helps them". I say BULLSHIT to that.
Sorry, to be frank, but that's how I feel.
Inlet seems like you and I are on the same page here and I don't have a PhD and i make enough to live modestly and i'm ok with that because it's my choices that have lead me here.
I feel a good portion of this generation's entitlement comes from the notion that every child should play/participate and every child gets a trophy sentiment that started oh about 20 years or so ago.
The video to Oakland. When other protestors try and help the wounded man, a cop throws another tear gas into the crowd. I'm starting to think that some cops are not human.
Inlet seems like you and I are on the same page here and I don't have a PhD and i make enough to live modestly and i'm ok with that because it's my choices that have lead me here.
I feel a good portion of this generation's entitlement comes from the notion that every child should play/participate and every child gets a trophy sentiment that started oh about 20 years or so ago.
Spot on.
Here's the funny thing - my kids stopped wanting the participation trophies very early. They actually earned some "real ones," and said - I don't want the one they give everyone. Maybe, that's a small microcosm of the world. The only ones that want the generic participation trophy are the ones that can't earn them otherwise. Hmmm. Sounds familiar.
Perhaps the OWS crowd would like my kids to give up some of the trophies they've earned because they don't have one of those. It's not fair. They are hoarding the 1st and 2nd place trophies. Everyone should get 1st place trophies. Why should only certian kids get those?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
The video to Oakland. When other protestors try and help the wounded man, a cop throws another tear gas into the crowd. I'm starting to think that some cops are not human.
Yep. Terrible. We get it. I don't think anyone thinks some of that stuff is right, and I'm confident there will be an investigation.
We could equally find just as many and (probably) more isolated incidents where folks that tagged along to this protest have done. That shouldn't shade them, and it shouldn't shade the police overall who have done a wonderful job. Especially NYC. NY's Finest.
So, can we get off that? I don't want it hidden. It should be reported. It has been reported. It doesn't make the protestors anymore correct. Or the vast majority of police officers incorrect.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
i can play 2 chords.....mike can play 200 chords.
do not worry.....mike will give me 101 chords.
i love equal playing fields.
Actually, you got that wrong. It's mike can play 200 chords, so he earns millions of $'s. You don't need to learn the 101 to catch up. OWS will just give you some of his millions.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
it's sad ... some people on here will give the tea party folk credit for standing up to the gov't yet dismiss this movement ...
this movement has been a long time coming ... it has support from all aspects of society ... there are rich people, poor people, young, old, christians, atheists, black, white, etc ...
it shouldn't take much to recognize the game is rigged but some folks here are apologists till the end ... :(
i can play 2 chords.....mike can play 200 chords.
do not worry.....mike will give me 101 chords.
i love equal playing fields.
Actually, you got that wrong. It's mike can play 200 chords, so he earns millions of $'s. You don't need to learn the 101 to catch up. OWS will just give you some of his millions.
The reasons behind these protests have been laid out here in this thread and others.... over and over again. You still dont get it, you just keep parroting Fox news quotes. :roll:
i can play 2 chords.....mike can play 200 chords.
do not worry.....mike will give me 101 chords.
i love equal playing fields.
Actually, you got that wrong. It's mike can play 200 chords, so he earns millions of $'s. You don't need to learn the 101 to catch up. OWS will just give you some of his millions.
The reasons behind these protests have been laid out here in this thread and others.... over and over again. You still dont get it, you just keep parroting Fox news quotes. :roll:
Since I don't watch or read Fox news, and you seem to, can you please tell me the exact quote I am taking?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Actually, you got that wrong. It's mike can play 200 chords, so he earns millions of $'s. You don't need to learn the 101 to catch up. OWS will just give you some of his millions.[/quote]
The reasons behind these protests have been laid out here in this thread and others.... over and over again. You still dont get it, you just keep parroting Fox news quotes. :roll:[/quote]
Since I don't watch or read Fox news, and you seem to, can you please tell me the exact quote I am taking?[/quote]
same here....help me out fox news watcher.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
The video to Oakland. When other protestors try and help the wounded man, a cop throws another tear gas into the crowd. I'm starting to think that some cops are not human.
I don't think anyone thinks some of that stuff is right, and I'm confident there will be an investigation.
.
If they investigate, its already a foregone conclusion what the findings will be....the police protect their own above all else. If you dont believe that I have some wonderful reclaimed tar sands property up here in beautiful northern Alberta I would love to sell you.
Comments
But I find it reasonable that my employer makes more from my efforts then I get paid. If they didn’t, I would probably be looking for work right now.
And if I had a major beef with that, then it’s up to me to go out and start my own business, even if it’s just me working as a consultant. That way, I would be getting paid the same amount that my current employer makes off of me.
Of course, I would have a lot of early expenses on equipment, insurance, traveling, paperwork, etc that my current employer handles. I wouldn't have an I.T. department, human resources, or any administration resources at my disposal. And there would be the risk of having my house and belongings taken from me if my business venture fails or I'm hit with litigation.
But with risk comes reward.
I could do it. It’s up to me and only me.
You are right. Where you start out from does make a big difference in life.
What do you want to do about that? That begin to sound like jealousy. Nobody said life is fair. However, your uncle had the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness as his partner (notice that does not say hapiness, but PURSUIT of happiness).
So, we should tax his partner because he has more wealth to begin with? Or should your Uncle make more in the business they share even if they do the same work and/or have equal investment b/c his partner has something else to make money on?
You seem to be proving the fact that folks think this OSW is all about folks worried about what the other guy has. You should be celebrating your Uncle's success. Sounds like a real American Dream Story.
why does everything have to be equal? should Steve Job's kid have to go to a public school because you think it's not fair he can start his own business and fail because his daddy was successful? i really don't get that argument at all. just seems like this generation and this movement has this notion that everyone should earn $100k+ and have no bills, no debt, and no concerns. that's not really reality. there have been many generations who have lived paycheck-to-paycheck and survived and thrived. not sure why this generation thinks they are entitled to more than that.
As someone else said
cost of education does not = salary expectation.
I know I chose my career based on my (realistic) likes (as in I don't get to be Derek Jeter), aptitude and future potential salary. I didn't go get a degree in English which cost just as much as the degree I got and expect to make the salary I made coming out of school. All 4 year degrees pretty much cost the same (at the same school). But, you also know what your realistic options are leaving school are based on the chosen degree.
If everything doesn't need to be equal, then the majority should force their hand and tax the stuffing out of the wealthy minority.
Why is it okay for somebody to be born into a bad situation, or to be extremely educated yet unable to find meaningful work because they lack connections, but it's not okay to tax one group that has enjoyed a massive advantage over the rest of the population?
And lets be honest, this generation doesn't earn anything close to $100k. I have three degrees and I barely hit the $50k mark. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is wealthy individuals telling me that I need to earn even less, give up on any basic social security and be prepared to be laid off so that governments can continue to pump large corporate turkeys full of taxpayer money they don't need; money which will inevitably be paid in bonuses to individuals who didn't earn them.
If you keep kicking down the middle class they might start to kick back.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oc ... -condition
the optics are not going to look good for the police.....I'm sure they would have rather hit anyone else but this guy (being an Iraq veteran).
Seriously, I really recommend you take an economics class. Just cause something is high in demand (which raises prices) does not mean that product (in this case - higher education) has a great value as an investment. Particularly, when lots of people have that product (higher education) already. It's simple supply and demand. Seriously, digest that for a moment. What you are saying here is very much, ridiculous.
Since you keep going to the PhD thing, I'll respond. I have a PhD and have ZERO loan debt. I decided to get my PhD because I weighed the cost vs benefit. I realized it would cost me a lot, but I was offered a grant and stipend, which helped "slightly" as an immediate benefit. If I hadn't gotten that, I may not have gone through with it (because I understood it's an investment and never thought the government would or should "bail me out"). Even with that though, I would be very poor in the immediate term for 5 to 6 years. Basically, I lost a lot of the "fun" I could have had in my 20s studying and living with my parents, while my friends went out and spent the money they made while working. Yet, I sacrificed and worked while I went to school to do the best I could to end school with limited debt.
Once I got my PhD, I only had so much debt, that I immediately paid off within a year. My point in mentioning this is not to brag, it's to say if this wasn't the case, I most likely wouldn't have gone back for a PhD. I'm not a moron, I thought it through. I looked at school as an investment. Sure, this investment could have gone sour. Who knows, maybe down the line it still will. But, to act as though the government.... the fucking government.... should be there to bail out my bad decisions is laughable. I hate that thought. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out my poor decisions? should I count on that? Fuck no. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out corporations bad decisions? That's why I hate the bailouts, it's the same story. Who the fuck is the government to be bailing out anyone's dumb decisions?... including yours.
When I got out of school for good and wasn't making quite as much as I wanted.... guess what I did? I realized that the job I had was "cake" compared to my friends. The reason it was cake: I had a PhD. And the truth: PhDs typically do very little real "hard" labor-intensive work. So, guess what I did.... I got ANOTHER job. OMG. Yes, two. So, I'm teaching college and working in research. I'm making money.... why?.... because I worked on it and didn't bitch at a protest in center city. Right now, I have two jobs and my wife is home with our child. That was important to me, and I worked on making it a reality.... with no help.
I'll end on this... When are we going to be responsible for our own fucking decisions? I'm so sick of this "woah is me"... I got a PhD and I can't find a job that pays enough... bullshit. Go to Africa and cry to them. Go to China and cry to them. They want what you have. And guess what, they won't stop until they get it. Go fucking work for it and stop bitching.
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inlet are you saying that if you are poor you shouldn't go get a PhD? If it's financially feasible only for the wealthy where is the equity in that? I've worked so many jobs I can't tell you, but I also got a second job to help us prepare for a child, and have chosen to teach winter and summer (when @ my institution I should either be on vacation or doing research) so that my child can grow up a lot more comfortably. I have worked really hard to get here, but when I look back at where I came from so did a lot of people who didn't get as lucky as me. Maybe it was luck and I should be happy, but I know I was not the smartest, best, or brightest kid in the school and I think it sucks that I get this and others couldn't fathom it.
No, I'm not saying "if you are poor you shouldn't get a PhD"! Where the fuck, pardon my language, did you get that from? I was fucking poor! I said that or should have. Yet, I got one! I also know plenty of "really, really poor" people.... PLENTY... who got their PhD.... guess where most of them where from? Give you a hint.... NOT THE U.S. Yet, they figured it out.... through DETERMINATION.
Difference between you and me:
I look at people who want something, and I see the world like they are "capable of attaining it if they stay focused".... your kind (from what I've read), at least in my opinion, look at the world and think "they are only capable if the government helps them". I say BULLSHIT to that.
Sorry, to be frank, but that's how I feel.
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My response:
In truth, deep down...
No one will EVER be treated equally. EVER. We're too inherently different in our origin and our origins environment (an to me... that's just fine). So, it's really impossible to "even the playing field". And the issue with doing that (even if you do think there's merit to trying to even it, which I don't)... is there's a cost: Economic Growth. There's a trade-off between economic growth and equality.
The reason I think capitalism is so good is this:
Although the richest have certainly gotten richer (when there's a ten percent rise in EVERYONE's incomes this always happens)... and yes, the gap between the rich and the poor has grown (same rationale as the previous parenthesis).... Since the advent of capitalism a few other things have happened, including: the mean income has risen substantially (worldwide), living standards jumped significantly, and for the poorest of the poor (living standards have improved and incomes have risen).
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
this is going to embolden the protesters and it is going to draw more people to the location being occupied. people who were neutral are going to now be swayed one way or the other.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Unfortunately, this seems to becoming standard operating procedures for the Oakland law enforcement. Seems like they kill or main a civilian at least once a year when it wasn't justifiable.
There is no reason they need to shoot propelled canisters. They could have easily hand-tossed the tear gas, if they felt it was warranted.
so if they used projectiles from close range, that is even more bullshit than shooting teargas cannisters into the crowd.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Unbelievable. This is just so bad, but when power is threatened, it seems they'll do anything to remain in control. It makes police look so bad, and they're not doing much to redeem their sinking image in Oakland. Did people see my link for the police in Albany, NY (my area)? They are like heroes, here.
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article ... z1bhYjL6xj
Inlet seems like you and I are on the same page here and I don't have a PhD and i make enough to live modestly and i'm ok with that because it's my choices that have lead me here.
I feel a good portion of this generation's entitlement comes from the notion that every child should play/participate and every child gets a trophy sentiment that started oh about 20 years or so ago.
The video to Oakland. When other protestors try and help the wounded man, a cop throws another tear gas into the crowd. I'm starting to think that some cops are not human.
Spot on.
Here's the funny thing - my kids stopped wanting the participation trophies very early. They actually earned some "real ones," and said - I don't want the one they give everyone. Maybe, that's a small microcosm of the world. The only ones that want the generic participation trophy are the ones that can't earn them otherwise. Hmmm. Sounds familiar.
Perhaps the OWS crowd would like my kids to give up some of the trophies they've earned because they don't have one of those. It's not fair. They are hoarding the 1st and 2nd place trophies. Everyone should get 1st place trophies. Why should only certian kids get those?
Yep. Terrible. We get it. I don't think anyone thinks some of that stuff is right, and I'm confident there will be an investigation.
We could equally find just as many and (probably) more isolated incidents where folks that tagged along to this protest have done. That shouldn't shade them, and it shouldn't shade the police overall who have done a wonderful job. Especially NYC. NY's Finest.
So, can we get off that? I don't want it hidden. It should be reported. It has been reported. It doesn't make the protestors anymore correct. Or the vast majority of police officers incorrect.
do not worry....we will give you 5 of our points.
i can play 2 chords.....mike can play 200 chords.
do not worry.....mike will give me 101 chords.
i love equal playing fields.
Actually, you got that wrong. It's mike can play 200 chords, so he earns millions of $'s. You don't need to learn the 101 to catch up. OWS will just give you some of his millions.
this movement has been a long time coming ... it has support from all aspects of society ... there are rich people, poor people, young, old, christians, atheists, black, white, etc ...
it shouldn't take much to recognize the game is rigged but some folks here are apologists till the end ... :(
more proof ... people don't really have a clue what this is all about ... lemme guess - you think socialism is a bad word ... :roll:
The reasons behind these protests have been laid out here in this thread and others.... over and over again. You still dont get it, you just keep parroting Fox news quotes. :roll:
Since I don't watch or read Fox news, and you seem to, can you please tell me the exact quote I am taking?
internet roll eyes....that is interesting.
The reasons behind these protests have been laid out here in this thread and others.... over and over again. You still dont get it, you just keep parroting Fox news quotes. :roll:[/quote]
Since I don't watch or read Fox news, and you seem to, can you please tell me the exact quote I am taking?[/quote]
same here....help me out fox news watcher.
If they investigate, its already a foregone conclusion what the findings will be....the police protect their own above all else. If you dont believe that I have some wonderful reclaimed tar sands property up here in beautiful northern Alberta I would love to sell you.