OCCUPY WALL STREET - Spreading

blueandwhite

cincybearcat wrote:

Great, this place is awesome.

Now we are advocating getting "ultraviolent" and burning down wall street and then heading to Washington....to do the same?

I thought violence was never the answer?

Short of violence, I very much doubt that anybody on Wall Street will pay the slightest attention to these protesters. Of course when things get heated, the elite will have the necessary excuses to basically sweep in and quash the protests completely. Mass arrests and summary judgments will be acceptable to protect the public good.

No matter what happens, this protest will be silenced and business will continue as usual. Give it enough time and the middle class will disappear completely. I expect that we'll see working conditions similar to those found in the third world emerge in developed nations like the US within our lifetimes.

EdsonNascimento

blueandwhite wrote:

No matter what happens, this protest will be silenced and business will continue as usual. Give it enough time and the middle class will disappear completely. I expect that we'll see working conditions similar to those found in the third world emerge in developed nations like the US within our lifetimes.

Wow! That is funny. That last sentence is hysterical.

Let me ask you - do Middle Class home generally have air conditioning these days?

Do middle class homes have at least 1 car in the driveway?

Do middle class homes have multiple tv's, iPods, computers, etc?

If you answered yes or for the most part to all 3 of those, you've just proven the middle class is better off today than it was 30 years ago. If you said no, you are lying to achieve your desired result. Thank you.

Can we please stop worrying about what other people have and be thankful for what we have? (and can we please get off the streets and start using that time to do a national search (if that's what it takes) to find a job? My company is hiring and we can't find qualified people. Where are you?)

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

am I the only one who wants this shit to get ultraviolent? Seriously we, the people, have done big protests before ('68 comes to mind), but nothing big will happen. What would happen if Phil Knight, Donald Trump, and the benevolent slaveowner Warren Buffett were being held over the Empire State Building with their lives in the hands of a sweatshop employee and an unemployed college grad? Maybe I'm wrong, and I really could be, but sometimes I think that making the powerful feel the fear, despair, and sadness we feel would get something done.

Are you willing to be the first one to burn innocent people alive with a petrol bombs? Will that solve the issue?

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20100505-268325/Deadly-fire-bomb-hits-bank-during-Greek-riots

Or kill peaceful protesters who want to prevent violent protesters from causing chaos?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097360,00.html

Or is it just that easy to grab Trump, beat him, shoot him, parade him through town on the hood of a truck and then stick him in a meatlocker?

ajedigecko

RW81233 wrote:

am I the only one who wants this shit to get ultraviolent? Seriously we, the people, have done big protests before ('68 comes to mind), but nothing big will happen. What would happen if Phil Knight, Donald Trump, and the benevolent slaveowner Warren Buffett were being held over the Empire State Building with their lives in the hands of a sweatshop employee and an unemployed college grad? Maybe I'm wrong, and I really could be, but sometimes I think that making the powerful feel the fear, despair, and sadness we feel would get something done.

wooooo hoooooo..........now we are getting somewhere.

RW81233

cincybearcat wrote:

Great, this place is awesome.

Now we are advocating getting "ultraviolent" and burning down wall street and then heading to Washington....to do the same?

I thought violence was never the answer?

I have have never argued that violence is never the answer...violence is sometimes necessary (not in Iraq or Afghanistan where poor kids are fighting rich men's wars). Personally, I think that if we want change staying peaceful isn't going to get those billionaires drinking champaign and waving at them to do anything. There needs to be something to instigate radical change to turn back the clocks on a system that has increasingly benefitted the rich. If it's by violence then so be it, if we really think sitting in tent cities around the country is going to get it done then so be it (I just see the former being far more effective in exacting change than the latter).

RW81233

EdsonNascimento wrote:

blueandwhite wrote:

No matter what happens, this protest will be silenced and business will continue as usual. Give it enough time and the middle class will disappear completely. I expect that we'll see working conditions similar to those found in the third world emerge in developed nations like the US within our lifetimes.

Wow! That is funny. That last sentence is hysterical.

Let me ask you - do Middle Class home generally have air conditioning these days?

Do middle class homes have at least 1 car in the driveway?

Do middle class homes have multiple tv's, iPods, computers, etc?

If you answered yes or for the most part to all 3 of those, you've just proven the middle class is better off today than it was 30 years ago. If you said no, you are lying to achieve your desired result. Thank you.

Can we please stop worrying about what other people have and be thankful for what we have? (and can we please get off the streets and start using that time to do a national search (if that's what it takes) to find a job? My company is hiring and we can't find qualified people. Where are you?)

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/d ... e-student/

inlet13

Wow, another Pro-Occupy thread advocating violence. How shocking.

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/d ... e-student/

It would be interesting if the author did the same cost analysis at Washington's other fine public university, Washington State, located in Pullman, WA. You would avoid the high cost of living that Seattle experiences (which I know first hand) and still get a 1st class education.

I know Pullman is not as exciting as Seattle is, but from a cost / education perspective, it's a viable option. And if I was paying my way through school, it would be the only option.

gimmesometruth27

inlet13 wrote:

Wow, another Pro-Occupy thread advocating violence. How shocking.

:roll:

are you really going to let 2 posters taint your views and the contents of the entire thread?

have you been to an occupy protest?

i have been to 2 and they have been completely peaceful.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Wow, another Pro-Occupy thread advocating violence. How shocking.

:roll:

are you really going to let 2 posters taint your views and the contents of the entire thread?

have you been to an occupy protest?

i have been to 2 and they have been completely peaceful.

It really is amazing how the majority of Occupy events have been relatively peaceful. One gathering in (I believe it was) Austin was described by one person as "spiritual". I think people generally want this to be a useful movement. My greatest hope is that the events remain generally peaceful acts of civil disobedience rather that violent protests. I mentioned Edward Abbey in another post. People often forget that Abbey and his friends (Dave Foreman, etc.) never used violence. They may have been involved in acts of sabotage but never terrorism or violence.

RW81233

To be clear I haven't actually heard of any violence at these protests outside of tony bologna pepper spraying the protesters, and a few other incidents that were similar. What I am wondering is what 'peaceful' protest is going to get done? What would violent protest get done? I'm, admittedly, not sure, but I think that the latter would be more successful in exacting the changes we need.

inlet13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Wow, another Pro-Occupy thread advocating violence. How shocking.

:roll:

are you really going to let 2 posters taint your views and the contents of the entire thread?

have you been to an occupy protest?

i have been to 2 and they have been completely peaceful.

:roll:

Are you really NOT going to condemn those who advocate violence in this thread then? Seems a bit strange that none of the pro-occupy board members condemn those who come in these threads and advocate violence. It's almost as if.... nah, no way.... yeh... it's almost as if... you're fine with these movements becoming violent. Otherwise, I'd think you'd condemn those who want these protests to turn violent.

Jeanwah

Let's try and not get this thread closed guys, ok?

Quit advocating violence!

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

To be clear I haven't actually heard of any violence at these protests outside of tony bologna pepper spraying the protesters, and a few other incidents that were similar. What I am wondering is what 'peaceful' protest is going to get done? What would violent protest get done? I'm, admittedly, not sure, but I think that the latter would be more successful in exacting the changes we need.

Ok... but you also said...

RW81233 wrote:

am I the only one who wants this shit to get ultraviolent?

Call me crazy, but that appears to be advocating violence. Whoops.... pardon me, that appears to be advocating ultraviolence.

pandora

Our Mayor here in Atlanta, who granted a three week stay revoked it after a hip hop concert
without permits, this past weekend

Police present markedly increased with the Mayor saying he will clear the park at
his choosing.

RW81233

inlet13 wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

To be clear I haven't actually heard of any violence at these protests outside of tony bologna pepper spraying the protesters, and a few other incidents that were similar. What I am wondering is what 'peaceful' protest is going to get done? What would violent protest get done? I'm, admittedly, not sure, but I think that the latter would be more successful in exacting the changes we need.

Ok... but you also said...

RW81233 wrote:

am I the only one who wants this shit to get ultraviolent?

Call me crazy, but that appears to be advocating violence. Whoops.... pardon me, that appears to be advocating ultraviolence.

I wrote the first one last night under the influence of alcohol...shouldn't have presented it in that way for sure. Just got fired up by watching some of the media reax to the protests. I guess what I am asking is what are we trying to accomplish through OWS and what will enable that change? For those who are against violence (that's a valid way to move forward) how will non-violence get the change to happen? For those of us who think maybe violence is an answer where would it need to be directed? Who would need to be held responsible? Would violence actually be better than non-violence?

inlet13

RW81233 wrote:

I wrote the first one last night under the influence of alcohol...shouldn't have presented it in that way for sure. Just got fired up by watching some of the media reax to the protests. I guess what I am asking is what are we trying to accomplish through OWS and what will enable that change? For those who are against violence (that's a valid way to move forward) how will non-violence get the change to happen? For those of us who think maybe violence is an answer where would it need to be directed? Who would need to be held responsible? Would violence actually be better than non-violence?

First, I'd say, the movement would need to know what it wants and be able to push for that in non-violent means. The messages coming out of this movement are all over the place. Sure, people have reason to be upset, but to direct all the anger in the direction the White House wants you too, is naive, atleast in my opinion. If OWS people don't see that they are doing exactly what the Obama administration wants, they are misguided. Mr. Obama is our President, yet I see no (to very very little) blame coming his way at these protests. Which is interesting considering the multitudes of issues put forth at these protests.

RW81233

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/d ... e-student/

It would be interesting if the author did the same cost analysis at Washington's other fine public university, Washington State, located in Pullman, WA. You would avoid the high cost of living that Seattle experiences (which I know first hand) and still get a 1st class education.

I know Pullman is not as exciting as Seattle is, but from a cost / education perspective, it's a viable option. And if I was paying my way through school, it would be the only option.

seriously? this is what your take away is? go live in pullman? you saw that she found the cheapest possible places to live outside of seattle right? that she didn't go out to eat ever and lived off $200 month for food? just a quick look at pullman's craigslist shows that she is likely to save $100/month for housing so $1200 less/year or $4800 over 4 years. Tuition cost looks to be about the same. The story is still bullshit.

gimmesometruth27

inlet13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Wow, another Pro-Occupy thread advocating violence. How shocking.

:roll:

are you really going to let 2 posters taint your views and the contents of the entire thread?

have you been to an occupy protest?

i have been to 2 and they have been completely peaceful.

:roll:

Are you really NOT going to condemn those who advocate violence in this thread then? Seems a bit strange that none of the pro-occupy board members condemn those who come in these threads and advocate violence. It's almost as if.... nah, no way.... yeh... it's almost as if... you're fine with these movements becoming violent. Otherwise, I'd think you'd condemn those who want these protests to turn violent.

it is not my responsibility to condemn them for what they have said in this thread. i respect both of those posters and agree with them on most things so i am not going to jump all over them for their views here. we all have our differences of opinion. i am for peaceful protest because most regular people who do not have a dog in the fight can not relate to, let alone advocate violence. if violence is used as a tactic, they are automatically alienating people who might otherwise agree with the movement and it will turn people against the movement. so in my opinion violent action would be shooting the movement in the foot. the people at occupy wall street and the people in this thread are good people and they want what they think is best for the country. just as most of us do. we just disagree on the means to the end.

Jason P

RW81233 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

RW81233 wrote:

http://persephonemagazine.com/2011/10/d ... e-student/

It would be interesting if the author did the same cost analysis at Washington's other fine public university, Washington State, located in Pullman, WA. You would avoid the high cost of living that Seattle experiences (which I know first hand) and still get a 1st class education.

I know Pullman is not as exciting as Seattle is, but from a cost / education perspective, it's a viable option. And if I was paying my way through school, it would be the only option.

seriously? this is what your take away is? go live in pullman? you saw that she found the cheapest possible places to live outside of seattle right? that she didn't go out to eat ever and lived off $200 month for food? just a quick look at pullman's craigslist shows that she is likely to save $100/month for housing so $1200 less/year or $4800 over 4 years. Tuition cost looks to be about the same. The story is still bullshit.

Housing is only one part of it. I moved from Seattle to the midwest, stayed at the same salary, and it was the equivalent of a 23% raise.

As for the story the author went off on, it is B.S., that I'll agree with. Tuition has increased 100% at the state university I attended in just over a decade ago. I was able to meet ends meet working part time, but tuition was around $5K. I can't understand how every university has doubled their price. I think kids today would be better off going to college online or getting experience as a welder.