My husband and I saw the film on the 20th in Mississauga, ON. It was awesome. He said I had a permanent smile on my face throughout the whole movie :-) It was great that it was a full theatre and to see all the fans rocking their PJ shirts, everyone applauded at the end too. I can't wait to get my copy of the DVD with all the bonus material. I'm so proud to be a fan of the best band ever! Thanks PJ and CC
"Push me and I will resist"
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,280
In a nutshell (as I watch it for the third time on DirecTV):
1) It feels more like PJ10+postscript. Everything post-Roskilde feels rushed. I would like to see more about the guys' activism, side projects, charitable causes, solo works, etc.
2) Stooooooooonnne!!! a) "Oh, look, it's a Grammy!" b) (on "The Kids Are Alright") "That was super-genius, and what we're doing will be super... us."
3) I've not watched "60 Minutes" since Andy Rooney's hate-filled, pointless spewing abotu Kurt Cobain's death. I kind of didn't need to see that again.
4) Is "Walk With Me" from the Bridge School benefit last year available for purchase? That is such an excellent performance.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Is "Walk With Me" from the Bridge School benefit last year available for purchase? That is such an excellent performance.
Yeah, it's available as part of the PJ20 soundtrack.
1991-11-30 St. Paul, MN
1992-08-28 St. Paul, MN
1998-06-30 Minneapolis, MN
2000-10-08 East Troy, WI
2003-06-16 St. Paul, MN
2006-06-26 St. Paul, MN
2006-06-27 St. Paul, MN
2006-07-07 San Diego, CA
2007-08-05 Chicago, IL
2008-06-24 New York, NY
2009-08-23 Chicago, IL
2009-08-24 Chicago, IL
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis, MN
2011-09-03 PJ20 East Troy, WI
2011-09-04 PJ20 East Troy, WI
2013-07-19 Wrigley Chicago, IL
2014-10-19 St. Paul, MN
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,280
::slaps forehead::
Yes, of course it is. :oops:
Man, I am getting old. :(
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Well, I've gotta get my money's worth from Xfinity on demand...right?
1991-11-30 St. Paul, MN
1992-08-28 St. Paul, MN
1998-06-30 Minneapolis, MN
2000-10-08 East Troy, WI
2003-06-16 St. Paul, MN
2006-06-26 St. Paul, MN
2006-06-27 St. Paul, MN
2006-07-07 San Diego, CA
2007-08-05 Chicago, IL
2008-06-24 New York, NY
2009-08-23 Chicago, IL
2009-08-24 Chicago, IL
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis, MN
2011-09-03 PJ20 East Troy, WI
2011-09-04 PJ20 East Troy, WI
2013-07-19 Wrigley Chicago, IL
2014-10-19 St. Paul, MN
I see so many people complaining about it and I just do not get it. I mean people say "man how could they not put THAT in the movie!?!" or "focus on the famous shows, etc." The movie is less than 2 hours long, obvoisly they could not fit every little detail in the movie. Plus Cameron and PJ put the stuff THEY thought was important in the movie and did things they way they felt was best, not what they thought the fans thought they should cover
And to further that, the book covers a lot of the left-out info and elaborates and the ones covered a little in the movie.
And for those complaining about how "they wanted new info" and how they already knew everything that was said in the movie: it is not the band's fault that you researched the band and felt the need to know everything about them. They didn't put in the scenes in the movie based upon whether people knew it, but rather they based it on importance and significance of their own interpretation of their history
I am not saying you have to like the film, but c'mon the complaints that are constantly made are pretty ridiculous
On a different note, the film was really well done, it was great to get the chance to see it in theaters with other PJ fans, it gave the experience a great vibe and I can't wait for when they decide to make PJ40!
We drove down to LA to see PJ20 on the big screen with a theater full of fans and we're so glad we did!
I was riveted the entire time and never wanted it to end. There are always going to be things that one might think should have been done differently, but over all I felt Cameron Crowe struck the right note.
He is a movie maker and this is a great movie. Unlike the Foo's documentary, which I love, this movie isn't meant to be a doc. Watching the guys reflect on their past was a treat with many sad and funny moments; it was heart warming. I can't wait to watch it over and over again and see all the extras.
It was cool walking out of the theater and seeing the huge line for the next showing.
I watched it on Time Warner On Demand, then watched it again. I thought it was very well done and worth the $8 I paid (I'd grade it an A-). Looking forward to the Blu-ray and having real audio (Plain old, tinny Dolby Digital 5.1 doesn't sound so great to my ears these days).
Some of my observations:
** I really enjoyed the stuff with Andy Wood and Mike's comment about him playing to a room of one like he was in a full arena. I also loved Ed's appreciation of what he did and was touched by the recollections of him shared by Jeff and Chris Cornell.
** Great comment from Mike about wondering whether that was a real person he was hearing while listening to the tape Ed sent up.
** Ed's comments about Cameron Crowe telling the younger Ed to "be careful" and "hold on" when he calls him was typically deep, funny and lyrical.
** I hated seeing the footage of Ed on the video screen again from Roskilde. It had to be shown because it revealed so much, but it's still tough to see.
** I would have liked to have heard about the breakfast meeting where Dave was fired. But it's also likely that the band doesn't want to talk about it for various reasons, possibly in part out of respect to Dave.
** Stellar cameos by both Stone's dog and Mike's daughter. Solid work by both in not playing to the camera.
** I know Cameron Crowe said the big clip was of Ed and Kurt dancing. But I think the best moment was having the birth of Intense Eddie singing Breath to the security guard. Pretty amazing and revealing shot.
** I do wish they had shown the SNL clip of the band after Kurt's death in which Ed touches his heart in salute to him. They had another clip from the show so you would think they had that one.
** Stone mentioned Kurt's impact on how the band went forward because of his negative comments. But in the book Jeff says he basically couldn't care less what Kurt had to say. It would have been nice to have his thoughts on that topic in the movie.
** I was also oddly comforted to see the pole in Ed's house. It seems much more cushiony and safe than I imagined it. Also cool to see the poster of Nusrat down at the bottom of it.
** This was the first time I heard Ed talk about the woman who crashed into his house. Scary stuff and helps people understand why he backed away from the spotlight, though thankfully he did so in a way that allowed him to continue to do what he loves.
Overall a great job, though it's hard to get everything into a two-hour movie.
Saw it back to back at Franklin Institute, Philly , on Sunday evening . Third time in total. IMAX was definitely worth the 12 dollar ticket price and then some. Absolutely incredible !!! Will definitely go once more before engagement ends. Ordered DVD version. MUCHAS GRACIAS PJ and 10C .
"Buy the ticket,take the ride"
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"If I wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better"
Johan Cruijff
Saw it on Friday with Crash (aka the hoodie guy Crashious) unlostdogs and dissidentman, had a great time
dinner, beers, the movie, MORE beers...awesome time!! Freaking Killer movie!!
Need to see it again..and again, and AGAIN..
"...And I fight back in my mind. Never lets me be right.
I got memories. I got shit so much it don't show."
I see so many people complaining about it and I just do not get it. I mean people say "man how could they not put THAT in the movie!?!" or "focus on the famous shows, etc." The movie is less than 2 hours long, obvoisly they could not fit every little detail in the movie. Plus Cameron and PJ put the stuff THEY thought was important in the movie and did things they way they felt was best, not what they thought the fans thought they should cover
And to further that, the book covers a lot of the left-out info and elaborates and the ones covered a little in the movie.
And for those complaining about how "they wanted new info" and how they already knew everything that was said in the movie: it is not the band's fault that you researched the band and felt the need to know everything about them. They didn't put in the scenes in the movie based upon whether people knew it, but rather they based it on importance and significance of their own interpretation of their history
I am not saying you have to like the film, but c'mon the complaints that are constantly made are pretty ridiculous
On a different note, the film was really well done, it was great to get the chance to see it in theaters with other PJ fans, it gave the experience a great vibe and I can't wait for when they decide to make PJ40!
Word!
2006 Washington D.C. 2008 Washington D.C. 2010 Cleveland 2012 Philadelphia 2013 Brooklyn 1, Baltimore 2016 NYC 1 2021 Ohana Encore 1
In Perth Australia, the cinima was small and there was no clapping at the end,
people remained IN AWE, in the cinema until the last credit rolled and it finaly finished.
The down side for me was I was too slow at pinching the PJ20 poster on the way INTO the cinima as it was gone before I had a chance to get it.
Loved the Film.
Seeing PJ on the big screen is a first for me, therefore I'm a little bit shell shocked.
( for want of a better term )
Other than the Troc being an incredibly bad venue choice it was great. The picture and sound were horrible and to have to pay $10 more per ticket because we had to buy them off of ticketmaster made it worse. I honestly wished I would have just waited to watch in on DirecTv to be honest.
Other than the Troc being an incredibly bad venue choice it was great. The picture and sound were horrible and to have to pay $10 more per ticket because we had to buy them off of ticketmaster made it worse. I honestly wished I would have just waited to watch in on DirecTv to be honest.
Other than the Troc being an incredibly bad venue choice it was great. The picture and sound were horrible and to have to pay $10 more per ticket because we had to buy them off of ticketmaster made it worse. I honestly wished I would have just waited to watch in on DirecTv to be honest.
BOOooooooooo..........
You obviously weren't there I take it. It was almost like they had my grandparents projector from 1964 and threw up a white sheet to play it on. Horrible. couple that with hooking it up to a $400 PA for the audio was terrible.
It should have been in a state of the art movie theater if you are going to charge $20 to see it.
By the way, I did love the actual movie. It's just the projector and sound quality were worse than watching on a 1985 TV and VCR playing it through TV speakers.
Loved the movie beginning to end. Almost passed on seeing it in the theater but am so glad I did. Sound at the Brattle made it a little hard to pick up all the dialogue but the music sounded great.
I was surprised at how often I laughed. Loved Eddie playing Release on the acoustic. Loved seeing all the Andy Wood footage and came away with a new found respect for Chris Cornell. Stone's bit with the Grammy was gold.
Critics can charge Cameron Crowe withe being a fanboy all they want. As a fanboy I think it is awesome that someone with as much rock cred as Crowe loves this band as much as I do. Fuck the critics.
Other than the Troc being an incredibly bad venue choice it was great. The picture and sound were horrible and to have to pay $10 more per ticket because we had to buy them off of ticketmaster made it worse. I honestly wished I would have just waited to watch in on DirecTv to be honest.
I saw it at the Franklin Institute last night, I'm very happy I didn't go to the Troc.
***
The interesting thing for me about PJ20 is that I'm 20 years old, so I could kind of correspond in my head their entire progression through time with my life by year. I grew up on Pearl Jam and I've been somewhere close to obsessed with them for most of the music-aware portion of my life, which dates back to probably '96 or so. It was well worth the wait, and I can't wait for the DVD to come out. I don't think the movie revealed to me anything that I wasn't already aware of, so the real treat here was seeing the newly released footage that goes with everything. The movie was pretty heavily focused on the Mother Love Bone-through-Vitalogy era. It only touched on No Code briefly, it skipped Yield (although a segment involving Eddie talking about stalking problems looked like it might have been unreleased footage from Single Video Theory), it briefly touched on Binaural, it skipped Riot Act aside from a humorous segment about Bu$hleaguer, and really didn't even make too much of a mention of Avocado or Backspacer. It seemed like they kind of chronicled the progression through Vitalogy, and then Ticketmaster, and then went through the individual band members and the sequence of drummers.
I'm cool with that though. The Yield/Binaural/Riot Act/Avocado era is my favorite particularly since that's the era I remember most, but PJ20 was never advertised as a straight career retrospective, which I'm happy about since there are plenty of books out there that do that well if you care enough to read them. The movie covered everything important, did a great job with Mother Love Bone and Roskilde, and has something for everyone to enjoy, whether a hardcore fan or a casual fan. Cameron Crowe did a great job as usual.
Many thanks to the band, the whole PJ organization and Cameron Crowe for putting out this movie, it is great that the fans were able to get this gift from the band.
I thought the movie was good, not great. Not sure what I was expecting, but when it was over I wasn't saying to myself, wow, what a great movie.
I am not going to rehash the whole movie, but some things stick out to me:
* The Singles party
* How young and "goofy" the young Eddie Vedder looked back then compared to how he looks and acts also
* All the climbing and diving EV did, it is a miracle he never killed himself or got seriously hurt.
* I would have liked to see more recent stuff, especially some more back stage stuff, on the road stuff, etc with the whole current band interacting, there was very little of that or none at all.
went and saw it last night in Cambridge. Cool little theatre. would like to go back for other films in the future. Loved the film of course. It was heavy on the early years for sure. It sprinkled from no code to present. But it was to give the foundation. It was enjoyable. It was a great night out with friends. It was walking by a cementary from 1635. With cobblestones under your feet. friend is having a viewing party when the dvd comes out. I will probably get it on demand within the next 24 hours regardless. and also pick up the dvd. So much footage from shows I went to. It was awesome. Can wait to see the additional footage. if you are on this site. reading these chats. posting your comments. you are already hooked line and sinker. Go and see it. if its not too late.
Watching this movie put me right back into the 1992-1994 era. It's crazy thinking back on just how HUGE all of this was back then. PJ was on every magazine, on the news, just everywhere. And though I lived through it, I had forgotten just how truly saturated the media was with *gasp* 'grunge' music back then. By the time the movie was done I felt like I was 12 years old again. Looking back on all that, it really is a miracle that PJ was able to make it through and finally get to the point where they are now. I think we're incredibly lucky that we still get to see them live and hear new music from these guys. Can't wait to see it again in the theatre
I absolutely loved all the Andy Wood footage, the Singles party footage, and the early interviews (Ed wearing a bra?! )
Cameron Crowe is a genius.
WI '98, WI '99 (EV), WI '00, Chgo '00, MO '00, Champaign '03, Chgo '03, WI '03, IN '03, MI '04, Chgo '06:N1 & 2, WI '06, Chgo '07, Chgo '08 (EV:N1), Chgo '09:N1 & 2, Chgo '11 (EV:N1), WI '11:N1 & 2, Philly '12, Wrigley '13, Pitt '13, Buff '13, Detroit '14, MKE '14, Wrigley '16: N1 & N2, Seattle '18 N2, Wrigley '18: N1 & N2, Fenway '18 N1, STL '22, St Paul '23 N2, Chgo '23: N1 & N2
No, haven't seen the movie (cause i live in Norway..) but i've heard the soundtrack and "Not for U" is the best version ever; they change the tempo in the slow part in the middle and then speed it up or something and it's fucking great...i's just great:) !! blue ray on the way to Norway...!!
went and saw it last night in Cambridge. Cool little theatre. would like to go back for other films in the future. Loved the film of course. It was heavy on the early years for sure. It sprinkled from no code to present. But it was to give the foundation. It was enjoyable. It was a great night out with friends. It was walking by a cementary from 1635. With cobblestones under your feet.
You mean the Brattle?? It's legendary. PJ should dedicate "Rats" to it.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
watched it on pay per view, thought it was about as good as it could be only being 2 hours long, can't wait for the bonus footage, great job guys! :thumbup:
A whole week has gone since I watched it from 6th row on a big cinema screen in Queensland, Australia. I wish I was going to see it again tonight. We can't get it on pay per view TV here so I'll have to wait for my Deluxe DVD set to arrive which could take months.
A whole week has gone since I watched it from 6th row on a big cinema screen in Queensland, Australia. I wish I was going to see it again tonight. We can't get it on pay per view TV here so I'll have to wait for my Deluxe DVD set to arrive which could take months.
Same here - do you reckon we'll get it by Xmas (2011) ? :?
Comments
you could tell eddie wanted to punch him
1) It feels more like PJ10+postscript. Everything post-Roskilde feels rushed. I would like to see more about the guys' activism, side projects, charitable causes, solo works, etc.
2) Stooooooooonnne!!! a) "Oh, look, it's a Grammy!" b) (on "The Kids Are Alright") "That was super-genius, and what we're doing will be super... us."
3) I've not watched "60 Minutes" since Andy Rooney's hate-filled, pointless spewing abotu Kurt Cobain's death. I kind of didn't need to see that again.
4) Is "Walk With Me" from the Bridge School benefit last year available for purchase? That is such an excellent performance.
Yeah, it's available as part of the PJ20 soundtrack.
Yes, of course it is. :oops:
Man, I am getting old. :(
PJ FAMILY REACHING OUT TO ONE OF NOLA'S FINEST. THANK YOU MIKE.
Well, I've gotta get my money's worth from Xfinity on demand...right?
I see so many people complaining about it and I just do not get it. I mean people say "man how could they not put THAT in the movie!?!" or "focus on the famous shows, etc." The movie is less than 2 hours long, obvoisly they could not fit every little detail in the movie. Plus Cameron and PJ put the stuff THEY thought was important in the movie and did things they way they felt was best, not what they thought the fans thought they should cover
And to further that, the book covers a lot of the left-out info and elaborates and the ones covered a little in the movie.
And for those complaining about how "they wanted new info" and how they already knew everything that was said in the movie: it is not the band's fault that you researched the band and felt the need to know everything about them. They didn't put in the scenes in the movie based upon whether people knew it, but rather they based it on importance and significance of their own interpretation of their history
I am not saying you have to like the film, but c'mon the complaints that are constantly made are pretty ridiculous
On a different note, the film was really well done, it was great to get the chance to see it in theaters with other PJ fans, it gave the experience a great vibe and I can't wait for when they decide to make PJ40!
I was riveted the entire time and never wanted it to end. There are always going to be things that one might think should have been done differently, but over all I felt Cameron Crowe struck the right note.
He is a movie maker and this is a great movie. Unlike the Foo's documentary, which I love, this movie isn't meant to be a doc. Watching the guys reflect on their past was a treat with many sad and funny moments; it was heart warming. I can't wait to watch it over and over again and see all the extras.
It was cool walking out of the theater and seeing the huge line for the next showing.
Some of my observations:
** I really enjoyed the stuff with Andy Wood and Mike's comment about him playing to a room of one like he was in a full arena. I also loved Ed's appreciation of what he did and was touched by the recollections of him shared by Jeff and Chris Cornell.
** Great comment from Mike about wondering whether that was a real person he was hearing while listening to the tape Ed sent up.
** Ed's comments about Cameron Crowe telling the younger Ed to "be careful" and "hold on" when he calls him was typically deep, funny and lyrical.
** I hated seeing the footage of Ed on the video screen again from Roskilde. It had to be shown because it revealed so much, but it's still tough to see.
** I would have liked to have heard about the breakfast meeting where Dave was fired. But it's also likely that the band doesn't want to talk about it for various reasons, possibly in part out of respect to Dave.
** Stellar cameos by both Stone's dog and Mike's daughter. Solid work by both in not playing to the camera.
** I know Cameron Crowe said the big clip was of Ed and Kurt dancing. But I think the best moment was having the birth of Intense Eddie singing Breath to the security guard. Pretty amazing and revealing shot.
** I do wish they had shown the SNL clip of the band after Kurt's death in which Ed touches his heart in salute to him. They had another clip from the show so you would think they had that one.
** Stone mentioned Kurt's impact on how the band went forward because of his negative comments. But in the book Jeff says he basically couldn't care less what Kurt had to say. It would have been nice to have his thoughts on that topic in the movie.
** I was also oddly comforted to see the pole in Ed's house. It seems much more cushiony and safe than I imagined it. Also cool to see the poster of Nusrat down at the bottom of it.
** This was the first time I heard Ed talk about the woman who crashed into his house. Scary stuff and helps people understand why he backed away from the spotlight, though thankfully he did so in a way that allowed him to continue to do what he loves.
Overall a great job, though it's hard to get everything into a two-hour movie.
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"If I wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better"
Johan Cruijff
dinner, beers, the movie, MORE beers...awesome time!! Freaking Killer movie!!
Need to see it again..and again, and AGAIN..
I got memories. I got shit so much it don't show."
Word!
2008 Washington D.C.
2010 Cleveland
2012 Philadelphia
2013 Brooklyn 1, Baltimore
2016 NYC 1
2021 Ohana Encore 1
people remained IN AWE, in the cinema until the last credit rolled and it finaly finished.
The down side for me was I was too slow at pinching the PJ20 poster on the way INTO the cinima as it was gone before I had a chance to get it.
Loved the Film.
Seeing PJ on the big screen is a first for me, therefore I'm a little bit shell shocked.
( for want of a better term )
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
BOOooooooooo..........
You obviously weren't there I take it. It was almost like they had my grandparents projector from 1964 and threw up a white sheet to play it on. Horrible. couple that with hooking it up to a $400 PA for the audio was terrible.
It should have been in a state of the art movie theater if you are going to charge $20 to see it.
By the way, I did love the actual movie. It's just the projector and sound quality were worse than watching on a 1985 TV and VCR playing it through TV speakers.
8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13
More to Come....
I was surprised at how often I laughed. Loved Eddie playing Release on the acoustic. Loved seeing all the Andy Wood footage and came away with a new found respect for Chris Cornell. Stone's bit with the Grammy was gold.
Critics can charge Cameron Crowe withe being a fanboy all they want. As a fanboy I think it is awesome that someone with as much rock cred as Crowe loves this band as much as I do. Fuck the critics.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
***
The interesting thing for me about PJ20 is that I'm 20 years old, so I could kind of correspond in my head their entire progression through time with my life by year. I grew up on Pearl Jam and I've been somewhere close to obsessed with them for most of the music-aware portion of my life, which dates back to probably '96 or so. It was well worth the wait, and I can't wait for the DVD to come out. I don't think the movie revealed to me anything that I wasn't already aware of, so the real treat here was seeing the newly released footage that goes with everything. The movie was pretty heavily focused on the Mother Love Bone-through-Vitalogy era. It only touched on No Code briefly, it skipped Yield (although a segment involving Eddie talking about stalking problems looked like it might have been unreleased footage from Single Video Theory), it briefly touched on Binaural, it skipped Riot Act aside from a humorous segment about Bu$hleaguer, and really didn't even make too much of a mention of Avocado or Backspacer. It seemed like they kind of chronicled the progression through Vitalogy, and then Ticketmaster, and then went through the individual band members and the sequence of drummers.
I'm cool with that though. The Yield/Binaural/Riot Act/Avocado era is my favorite particularly since that's the era I remember most, but PJ20 was never advertised as a straight career retrospective, which I'm happy about since there are plenty of books out there that do that well if you care enough to read them. The movie covered everything important, did a great job with Mother Love Bone and Roskilde, and has something for everyone to enjoy, whether a hardcore fan or a casual fan. Cameron Crowe did a great job as usual.
I thought the movie was good, not great. Not sure what I was expecting, but when it was over I wasn't saying to myself, wow, what a great movie.
I am not going to rehash the whole movie, but some things stick out to me:
* The Singles party
* How young and "goofy" the young Eddie Vedder looked back then compared to how he looks and acts also
* All the climbing and diving EV did, it is a miracle he never killed himself or got seriously hurt.
* I would have liked to see more recent stuff, especially some more back stage stuff, on the road stuff, etc with the whole current band interacting, there was very little of that or none at all.
I can't wait for the DVD!
I absolutely loved all the Andy Wood footage, the Singles party footage, and the early interviews (Ed wearing a bra?!
Cameron Crowe is a genius.
You mean the Brattle?? It's legendary. PJ should dedicate "Rats" to it.
The whole world will be different soon the whole world will be RELIEVED
#resistgezi #resistturkey #resisttaksim #direnturkiye #direngezi
#standingman #duranadam
Same here - do you reckon we'll get it by Xmas (2011) ? :?