Religious Beliefs

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  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited March 2011
    EmBleve wrote:
    And, no, it's not patronizing at all...I think that anybody with an open mind--whether they do or don't believe in an afterlife---could make that statement because everybody is going to die, and then it will be revealed. If there isn't an afterlife, then there will be no 'knowing', so it won't matter.

    Anybody with an open mind? So those that have already made up their mind, are deemed 'small/closed minded'? One can't assume that one needs to wait until the end to find out anything. I don't have to jump into a black hole (if I could) to know it would be oblivion for me - even if science hasn't quite figured out what these are. I still believe anything that needs to be 'revealed' will be for believers and maybe-ers.

    Afterlife is a religious or mythical concept. As I do not believe in religion and a myth is exactly what it says - for me there is no afterlife.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    fife wrote:
    I don't believe its a cop out to say we don't know.

    neither do I. that's exactly my stance as an agnostic. I took what you said incorrectly I guess.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    edited March 2011
    redrock wrote:
    EmBleve wrote:
    And, no, it's not patronizing at all...I think that anybody with an open mind--whether they do or don't believe in an afterlife---could make that statement because everybody is going to die, and then it will be revealed. If there isn't an afterlife, then there will be no 'knowing', so it won't matter.

    Anybody with an open mind? So those that have already made up their mind, are deemed 'small/closed minded'? One can't assume that one needs to wait until the end to find out anything. I don't have to jump into a black hole (if I could) to know it would be oblivion for me - even if science hasn't quite figured out what these are. I still believe anything that needs to be 'revealed' will be for believers and maybe-ers.

    Some people who have made up their mind are closed minded, yes. And I am not referring to you, btw. Have you not ever had a conversation with somebody who is decided on something and cannot/will not consider any other alternative?? And why can't one assume that one needs to wait until the 'end' to find out anything? As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.
    ..I just saw your edition, and personally, I believe that an afterlife is more of a 'spiritual' concept than a religious one...perhaps mythical on some levels, yes, and I respect and appreciate your views. You totally have a right to be sure about something, of course. :) Me, I'm not too sure about anything frankly.
    Post edited by EmBleve on
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    pandora wrote:
    b] faith is not taught it is found and not all people need to find it.
    [/b]
    Our paths take us to the things we need in this life, it is there we find fulfillment,
    different for everyone

    we FINALLY understand each other.
    :D
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    actually, I think I'd go so far as to say that anyone who claims to know either way IS close minded. I sometimes make fun of those who do believe, however, I always acknowledge that I don't know, nobody knows, no living being will ever know.

    I teeter on the side of atheism, however, I can't say 100% sure that god does no exist. 99% sure is still agnostic. :)
    EmBleve wrote:
    Some people who have made up their mind are closed minded, yes. And I am not referring to you, btw. Have you not ever had a conversation with somebody who is decided on something and cannot/will not consider any other alternative?? And why can't one assume that one needs to wait until the 'end' to find out anything? As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • iluvcats
    iluvcats Posts: 5,153
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
    or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.

    I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know ;)
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    Paul David wrote:
    actually, I think I'd go so far as to say that anyone who claims to know either way IS close minded. I sometimes make fun of those who do believe, however, I always acknowledge that I don't know, nobody knows, no living being will ever know.

    Exactly, that's all I'm saying. :D
    EmBleve wrote:
    Some people who have made up their mind are closed minded, yes. And I am not referring to you, btw. Have you not ever had a conversation with somebody who is decided on something and cannot/will not consider any other alternative?? And why can't one assume that one needs to wait until the 'end' to find out anything? As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited March 2011
    EmBleve wrote:
    As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.

    I edited my post to explain why I didn't believe in an afterlife. Lots of people here make a huge point about believing in god but not in religion and the majority of those will believe in an afterlife. As I said in my previous post, afterlife is a RELIGIOUS (or mythical) concept based on the 'good books/good word' or whatever it is called - this is for all religions who do have an afterlife. So those not believing in religion will then still pick and choose the bits they like whilst discarding the other bits?

    Edit: saw your edit. Spiritual, based on religion. Again, one can't really completely dissociate god and religion.
    Post edited by redrock on
  • iluvcats
    iluvcats Posts: 5,153
    Paul David wrote:
    actually, I think I'd go so far as to say that anyone who claims to know either way IS close minded. I sometimes make fun of those who do believe, however, I always acknowledge that I don't know, nobody knows, no living being will ever know.

    I teeter on the side of atheism, however, I can't say 100% sure that god does no exist. 99% sure is still agnostic. :)
    EmBleve wrote:
    Some people who have made up their mind are closed minded, yes. And I am not referring to you, btw. Have you not ever had a conversation with somebody who is decided on something and cannot/will not consider any other alternative?? And why can't one assume that one needs to wait until the 'end' to find out anything? As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.

    I'm close minded.
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited March 2011
    iluvcats wrote:
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
    or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.

    I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know ;)

    Atheist - does not believe in a god
    Agnostic - not sure if a god exists or not.

    Save your prayers for those who believe in them - might work better ;)
  • iluvcats
    iluvcats Posts: 5,153
    the original poster asked if everyone deserves forgiveness. when you don't forgive someone, you might end up being a bitter, angry person. you can forgive them; but it does not mean you have to hang around them or talk to them.
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    atheists don't believe in a supreme being.
    agnostics say they don't know if there is one, or isn't one.

    I went to church every sunday until I was 12, when my parents gave me the option. I jumped back on that couch nd I've never looked back. ;)

    Seriously, though, I just felt something was "off" when I was that age, and being told all these stories, and how to live and how not to live, and that Jesus loves me no matter what, but God doesn't, and they are the same person, but God is Jesus' father yadda yadda yadda.

    But beyond that, I didn't feel that, even if I was a believer, that it was appropriate for anyone to tell me that I needed to be inside this building an hour a week in order to be a true believer. To hear this jackass at the front recycle the same damn stories every year. It didn't make any sense. My parents giving a good portion of their hard-earned money to this guy in a robe who works in this gorgeous building but then preaches about non-materialism and giving to the poor.

    Why do churches have to be these ridiculously rich monuments? Isn't that exactly the type of thing that Jesus would have been pissed off at?
    iluvcats wrote:
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
    or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.

    I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know ;)
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    redrock wrote:
    EmBleve wrote:
    As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.

    I edited my post to explain why I didn't believe in an afterlife. Lots of people here make a huge point about believing in god but not in religion and the majority of those will believe in an afterlife. As I said in my previous post, afterlife is a RELIGIOUS (or mythical) concept based on the 'good books/good word' or whatever it is called - this is for all religions who do have an afterlife.

    So those not believing in religion will then still pick and choose the bits they like whilst discarding the other bits?
    This is interesting, because I have been questioned this in the past by a few hard core christians; my beliefs are not solidified in many respects...I know I do believe in God, though. And, like I said, I think that an afterlife is more spiritual in nature than 'religious' per se. Religions seem to me to be more punitive, judgmental, and hypocritical than what fits my concept of forgiveness and acceptance. And, I guess it could be seen as 'picking and choosing', or it could be seen as not falling into an 'acceptable' interpretation.
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    I'll be the first to admit I have a HUGE problem forgiving those that have wronged me. And yeah, at least today, I'm pretty fucking bitter. 8-)
    iluvcats wrote:
    the original poster asked if everyone deserves forgiveness. when you don't forgive someone, you might end up being a bitter, angry person. you can forgive them; but it does not mean you have to hang around them or talk to them.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    iluvcats wrote:
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
    or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.

    I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know ;)

    This is a great question. and it is a question that I think reflects why organized religion is cultural/geographic, and makes me all the more critical of it.

    I'd wager that the majority (by far) of people in the world that follow organized religion, do so because of how they were raised (or possibly by dominant religion by geography).

    I was raised Lutheran and required to go to church for about 5-6 years until I was about 13. Did baptized, communion, bible class..
    I am now like PaulDavid, 99% agnostic (possibly atheist)

    And, also not trying to start an argument or be an asshole, but I really hope nobody is praying for me. ;)
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    interesting, as I have been thinking about this very question recently, and I guess I could say that maybe I do believe in a god, and that would be the force of nature. that being said, it's completely random and has no power over the beings that live under its umbrella.
    fife wrote:
    I have a questions. when we talk about a "god" what does that mean to everyone? Are we talking of god of Socrates, Einstein or the catholic church etc? are we talking about the unmoved mover, the big bang theory.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • EmBleve
    EmBleve Posts: 3,019
    redrock wrote:
    iluvcats wrote:
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    Save your prayers for those who believe in them - might work better ;)

    Sorry, but regardless of the subject matter, is THIS comment not patronizing??
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    EmBleve wrote:
    .I know I do believe in God, though. .

    But which god? A christian type of god? Or a supernatural being in which one takes 'refuge'? Is religion not god's relevation?
  • iluvcats
    iluvcats Posts: 5,153
    paul david, I don't go every Sunday. I only went sometimes, growing up. I was mostly taught the fear of God growing up. I've learned more on my own, from electronic church. Sometimes, I've gone to church on Saturdays. I happen to find going to church (now that I'm older and it's my choice) to be relaxing. I can't explain the beautiful buildings b/c the chairs sure are not comfortable. 1 church I went to was in an elementary school.
    The past 20 years, I've only gone to a Catholic church, but I'm Presbyterian. But yes churches need to watch their expenses b/c they have a mortgage payment too. But churches also have fund raising events. And churches are there, even for non believers, when they need help with a bill or a crisis.

    I've had my own little miracles. You guys would say they are coincidences; but I call them "angelic intervention."
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    edited March 2011
    EmBleve wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    iluvcats wrote:
    to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)

    Save your prayers for those who believe in them - might work better ;)

    Sorry, but regardless of the subject matter, is THIS comment not patronizing??

    Most probably, but this holier than though 'we pray for you' bit is out of line for a lot of atheists. Very condescending - as if we needed praying for.

    Obviously it seems to have 'hit a nerve' with someone else as well. He was just a bit more gentle with his retort
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    And, also not trying to start an argument or be an asshole, but I really hope nobody is praying for me. ;)
    Post edited by redrock on

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