Maybe. But you're talking about human beings donating and lending supplies, which is what I said needed to be done. Human beings have to do this themselves. In that sense, this prayer could have easily been a request by my friend for donations to be made or supplies to be sent instead. It would have had the same effect. Actually, it might have made an even greater effect if she had simply posted a link to a charity and asked her friends to donate. Instead it makes a lot of us read her status and think of it as more religious psycho babble, becauseI was referring to a prayer in the sense that people (like my friend) believe that they are received and answered by god and "he" intervenes to save the day.
And like I said earlier, you don't need prayers to spread love and generosity. You do it by being a good person and treating others how you want to be treated and by helping others in tangible ways.
but what about the potential flip side to this? what if someone were to see her facebook status and be inspired to do something tangible like make a donation or send supplies, etc? it's not just about making oneself feeling better about oneself, but also about spreading the love, so to speak.
in that sense, god or no god, didn't the prayer "work"?
I know what you're saying. Another catholic friend (I seem to have a few) of mine recently made her status on facebook "sending thoughts and prayers to the people of Japan". I wanted to comment so bad, but I ignored it to avoid hurting her feelings or starting something. But I felt like saying Instead of sending thoughts and prayers why don't you send something tangible, like donations - something that will actually help the people of Japan. Again it's this crazy belief that prayers have some kind of magical force behind them, when they are nothing but empty gestures that do absolutely nothing to help at all. Human beings have to make these things happen. But I guess it's easier for some people to update their facebook status from their cellphones and pretend they're doing something that helps and that they are good people.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I find that most people when talking about god have a narrow view of what god means. most people humanize god, give god human characteristics like judging or creating or controlling. and that's maybe not what god is.
but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.
Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.
I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
yes: edit to the waiting trophy man
[I see you edited your post. First you said "your opinion" and left it at that. Then you added a rebuttal. So here's mine: I don't think I'm ignorant at all about your belief system. I know everything I need to know and I don't have to prove to you why your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing is complete foolishness.[/quote][/quote]
I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.
Right, it's belief in an outdated concept centered around a fictional supernatural being that controls our destiny. In other words, ignorance.
[/quote]
I hope you don't take this personally as i don't mean to offend but you have a narrow view of how people view god. you are right that some see god as their protector as such but other don't so i think calling them ignorant is not correct.[/quote]
Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.
I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.
I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.
I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.
That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.
Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world
We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.
Just curious, alot of people on the train seem to bash religion. Do this many people not believe in god, or heaven, or hell?
I was brought up catholic, and still consider myself so. As a child I was baptised and attended CCD class every weak. Although I don't attend church anymore, nor do I completely devote my life towards preaching the word of god, I still believe in god and heaven. And at times I still pray. Just wondering where other peoples views are on heaven and hell.
If it makes you a better person than fine. But I really find it quite strange that a lot of people who are smart individuals really believe in this stuff. I mean all religion is debunked. There are no facts at all.
yes: edit to the waiting trophy man
[I see you edited your post. First you said "your opinion" and left it at that. Then you added a rebuttal. So here's mine: I don't think I'm ignorant at all about your belief system. I know everything I need to know and I don't have to prove to you why your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing is complete foolishness.
[/quote]
I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.[/quote]
I think I know a little bit about your belief system.
This is what you posted a few pages back:
"I know I do believe in God, though."
and
"Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it".
And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith". So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me. But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it). Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.
btw, I edited my original post on page 21 and took at "your" in 2 places.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.
I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.
I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.
I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.
That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.
Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world
We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.
Nice post. Thumbs up!
Personally, I was born and brought up a Muslim, but it's only in the last couple of years that I've taken time out to try and understand my religion. I've always had faith, but it was more blind faith than anything else. I've found that questioning the things that I didn't completely understand, but just accepted as truth regardless, has actually made my faith stronger. I believe with more conviction now than I ever did.
I am of the view that everyone has the right to believe what they want out of their own free will and no one has the right to compel anyone else to believe. The free will we have is a God-given right, no one can take it away from us. If it was God's will that everyone of us should believe, then we would. He's left it up to us, we have to make that decision ourselves.
I find that most people when talking about god have a narrow view of what god means. most people humanize god, give god human characteristics like judging or creating or controlling. and that's maybe not what god is.
[/quote]
but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.[/quote]
So is god. Or gods.[/quote]
and i beg to differ that god is a man-made entity. but it seems that I have a different view of what god is.
"I would rather live my life believing that God does exist, then die to find out he doesn't, than to live my life not believing he exists, only to die to find out that he does".
Yes redrock I felt I understood the quote differently than you and Jon
because many believers feel their lives are far more meaningful
with the the presence of God in them.
So to live your life with God, believing you will journey on,
is far more satisfying then it would be
living your life without him
And then flip side
to live your life then to find out he existed your whole time on Earth
and you wasted that time without this fulfillment,
well you might want to kick your self in the arse
Kind of like not learning Abe Lincolns beautiful quotes til you are 55
missed time .... missed revelations.... missed enjoyment
That was my interpretation of the quote
so what you are saying is
if you die and there is nothing
it's ok that you spent your entire life believing in a myth
that, you believe, made you a better person
but in reality, it is only ourselves that have the ability for peace, love and understanding
or if you die and you find yourself at the pearly gates check-in desk
and you did not believe in a god during your life
this god will be very upset that you did not worship it
and you will then spend eternity on fire
so you might as well spend your life in fear of that fire?
huh? :eh: How in hecks name did you get that out of what I said?
You and I don't think about God in the same way...
you have a presumed opinion of me for sure and of my beliefs.
I'll be dead.... so if there is nothing thats what I get when I leave
but yes living my life believing in God is way ok with me
even if I am wrong...faith is not something you turn off and on
it is found..I found it on my journey and I'm glad of it.
I think the second half is maybe more you?? what you were taught
or is what you would presume a believer to believe
a little fire and brimstone I guess
My God is not upset with people...he doesn't need to be worshiped.
He does not punish...He doesn't judge
He does not save us from tragedy
he only provides comfort and love.
He loves us all.
I find that most people when talking about god have a narrow view of what god means. most people humanize god, give god human characteristics like judging or creating or controlling. and that's maybe not what god is.
but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.[/quote]
So is god. Or gods.[/quote]
and i beg to differ that god is a man-made entity. but it seems that I have a different view of what god is.[/quote]
Well.. maybe not 'made' per se, but from early times, what man could not understand and potentially feared, such as lightening for example - they tried to explain by a 'force' (god) which they revered and appeased (with offerings/rituals/prayers). So I would say, yes, man 'created' god in a way. An entity who could be 'responsible' for those things happening. Rituals around this entity became a religion in some sorts.
Well.. maybe not 'made' per se, but from early times, what man could not understand and potentially feared, such as lightening for example - they tried to explain by a 'force' (god) which they revered and appeased (with offerings/rituals/prayers). So I would say, yes, man 'created' god in a way. An entity who could be 'responsible' for those things happening. Rituals around this entity became a religion in some sorts.
Edit: looks like the quoting went crazy again![/quote]
I think the characteristics of god are man made. this view that god is there to listen to our problems and takes sides in wars or makes people win Grammies. I don't believe that, but i do know people who say that prayer does do something for them and it gives them the inner-power. and you know what great.
I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.
I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.
That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.
Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world
We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.
Nice post. Thumbs up!
Personally, I was born and brought up a Muslim, but it's only in the last couple of years that I've taken time out to try and understand my religion. I've always had faith, but it was more blind faith than anything else. I've found that questioning the things that I didn't completely understand, but just accepted as truth regardless, has actually made my faith stronger. I believe with more conviction now than I ever did.
I am of the view that everyone has the right to believe what they want out of their own free will and no one has the right to compel anyone else to believe. The free will we have is a God-given right, no one can take it away from us. If it was God's will that everyone of us should believe, then we would. He's left it up to us, we have to make that decision ourselves.
Yours too!
I also feel my faith grows stronger as I walk my path and I see the choices I have been given.
but I also feel this is true for the nonbelievers as well.
The strength of their convictions, the life lessons, the love grows stronger, wisdom deepens,
life choices made on their path in life too.
Actually I do live life to the fullest. I didn't say that MY life has or needs a purpose. I was referring to the purpose of ALL life. A purpose of the earth. Or even a purpose of the universe. This world is so vast, it's incredible. And I never said I wanted it to go on forever. I said that I don't know. And it wasn't being egotistical because I don't know what happens to other animals or life forms either.
My best guess is that it's all over after we die. But I don't know for sure. The only thing that I know for sure is that you don't know either.
Well since you're a living being too I took it to mean your life was included in ALL life. I don't know what purpose you want for the earth or for the universe?? But if you ask the religious people they'll say that god built the earth for us (even though dinosaurs were here before us) and we're all alone in the universe (highly likely that we're not). Yes, earth is vast and incredible. You never said you WANTED it to go on forever, what you said was "And to think that there is no purpose or possible afterlife would be disappointing". That's why I said "why would you even want an afterlife". But you sound confused. First you said that you "certainly" don't believe in god and then you say you don't know for sure, so I don't know what to tell you.....
But hey, if there is an afterlife you can tell me how wrong I was and we'll have a good laugh about it and then talk some Pearl Jam! (See how stupid that sounds??) lol
I'm not confused at all. But it seems that you are very confused about my position. I'm not sure how I can make it more clear for you. But I'll try.
-I do not believe in God or Religion.
-I really don't believe in anything other than living a fulfilling life.
-I don't pretend to know what happens after death. (because I have never died)
-I don't know if there is some sort of higher power in this universe.
-When I talk of purpose...I'm referring to this vast world we live in. And just how small and fragile we are, even as a planet. I marvel at the solar system and it's possibility of being unbounded and infinite.
Basically I am saying that I don't believe in any man made religion. But I don't know for sure what happens after I die or if there is something out there far more spectacular than life on earth. Pretty simple concept really.
And as to your last quote about meeting and talking about PJ in an afterlife...Of course that sounds stupid. Because that would be a stupid persons idea of what an afterlife might be like. Hence why so many religious people believe that we all go to heaven and hang out. My best guess is that we all just die and that is it. But Iv'e never died and this world seems incredible and vast. So I just don't know.
Basically I am saying that I don't believe in any man made religion. But I don't know for sure what happens after I die or if there is something out there far more spectacular than life on earth.
My best guess is that we all just die and that is it. But Iv'e never died and this world seems incredible and vast. So I just don't know.
Gotcha dude. But how do you know know you've never died before? Maybe you've been re-incarnated? Don't try and tell me that it's impossible because you can't prove otherwise. But I agree that we probably "all just die and that is it". I guess this life is better than nothing. Or is it....??? For a lot of people its not, I presume.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Basically I am saying that I don't believe in any man made religion. But I don't know for sure what happens after I die or if there is something out there far more spectacular than life on earth.
My best guess is that we all just die and that is it. But Iv'e never died and this world seems incredible and vast. So I just don't know.
Gotcha dude. But how do you know know you've never died before? Maybe you've been re-incarnated? Don't try and tell me that it's impossible because you can't prove otherwise. But I agree that we probably "all just die and that is it". I guess this life is better than nothing. Or is it....??? For a lot of people its not, I presume.
Reincarnation is an interesting subject. I think about it quite often. I had a thought about it the other day. That basically maybe it's possible that a part of us is reincarnated within our offspring?? And that's why living beings are so inherently struggling to reproduce? I understand that without reproduction life would cease to exist. But why does nature exist the way it does? I find instincts to be amazing. So is it also possible that other than our genes, some part of us lives on? No one really knows.
its a beautiful thought that I could come back as a bird....
a female rufous sided towhee... she's beautiful, chocolate brown with a pale orange breast
her mate dressed to kill in a black and white tuxedo and a dark orange vest (JB )
to fly in the sky
lay eggs and feed little baby birds
and send them on their way
then do it again
and no matter the weather
we live outside in nature..a bush our home
its a beautiful thought that I could come back as a bird....
a female rufous sided towhee... she's beautiful, chocolate brown with a pale orange breast
her mate dressed to kill in a black and white tuxedo and a dark orange vest (JB )
to fly in the sky
lay eggs and feed little baby birds
and send them on their way
then do it again
and no matter the weather
we live outside in nature..a bush our home
could be heaven
I always love how when people talk about reincarnation they always think they will come back some cool like what you said above. you never hear someone accept that they may come back as earth worm or something like that, its like when you see a commercial about the humane society you never see an ugly pet. I personally don't believe in it but i not against people thinking it might be true.
its a beautiful thought that I could come back as a bird....
a female rufous sided towhee... she's beautiful, chocolate brown with a pale orange breast
her mate dressed to kill in a black and white tuxedo and a dark orange vest (JB )
to fly in the sky
lay eggs and feed little baby birds
and send them on their way
then do it again
and no matter the weather
we live outside in nature..a bush our home
could be heaven
I always love how when people talk about reincarnation they always think they will come back some cool like what you said above. you never hear someone accept that they may come back as earth worm or something like that, its like when you see a commercial about the humane society you never see an ugly pet. I personally don't believe in it but i not against people thinking it might be true.
earthworm...lookout... I'm somebodies lunch
its a little daydream...I dream the good stuff :thumbup:
I think we're all just a big alien ant farm of a much superior race. that would make aliens our god. which makes Fox Mulder our saviour.
Even if we were, and my own beliefs are closer to this than i'll go into, wouldn't God still be God?
that's what I'd like to know from the theists. If some little green men arrived saying they were our creator, I bet 100% of them would renounce their faith.
Or burn the little buggers at the stake.
Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think I know a little bit about your belief system.
This is what you posted a few pages back:
"I know I do believe in God, though."
-My posting and my statement that I believe in God does not tell you very much about my entire belief system and you were being pretentious and condescending.
and
"Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it".
And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".
-again, pretentious and condescending. You wouldn't 'mistake me for a "true believer"'?? What does that mean?? You say that with such a sense of self-righteousness and judgment as though there is something inherently wrong with someone being a 'believer'--is it your purpose to attack and tear down someone's opinion that is different from your own??
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith".
--I defended the person who told you that you needed to prove that god doesn't exist by merely saying "Faith is not a cop out. And it's not a scientific concept". I never addressed the issue of proof in any way, shape or form--I did not directly defend anything that person said about you needing to prove that god doesn't exist. I don't think it can be proven nor disproven; to me, it is a separate entity from science, therefore, I purposely did not address the issue of proof.
So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me.
-It wasn't an argument. It was a statement of my opinion. Regardless of what I believe, it unnerves me that someone would say, or imply, to a person who believes is in some way 'copping out'. That's bs.
But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it).
--um, no I don't like being called ignorant, because I am not. You shouldn't call anyone ignorant based on your idea of someone else's beliefs. You are the one who stated that it was ignorance and "complete foolishness". Would you appreciate that?
Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.
Please heed your own advice and think about that before you label something as ignorant and foolish.
I think I know a little bit about your belief system.
This is what you posted a few pages back:
"I know I do believe in God, though."
"My posting and my statement that I believe in God does not tell you very much about my entire belief system and you were being pretentious and condescending."
***No I wasn't. You said you believed in a christian god - what do you you expect me to take from that?? That's a pretty telling statement***
And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".
"again, pretentious and condescending."
*** Again, no not at all. You say you believe in in christian god, but on the other hand you don't subscribe to the typical christian beliefs. You pick and choose the things about it you want to believe to suit your needs. That's why I said "true believer", meaning a person with typical christian values***
"and judgment as though there is something inherently wrong with someone being a 'believer'--is it your purpose to attack and tear down someone's opinion that is different from your own??"
***Yeah, I do judge religious people. I honestly think a lot of them are coo coo for cocoa puffs; however, I did not attack or tear you down. You took an opposing stance and defended the other side of the argument. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.***
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith".
"I defended the person who told you that you needed to prove that god doesn't exist by merely saying "Faith is not a cop out. And it's not a scientific concept". I never addressed the issue of proof in any way, shape or form--I did not directly defend anything that person said about you needing to prove that god doesn't exist. I don't think it can be proven nor disproven; to me, it is a separate entity from science, therefore, I purposely did not address the issue of proof."
***That post had nothing to do with faith being a cop out. It had to do with proving the existence of god. And in regards to faith, you gave me your opinion of it and I gave you mine. Done.***
So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me.
"It wasn't an argument. It was a statement of my opinion. Regardless of what I believe, it unnerves me that someone would say, or imply, to a person who believes is in some way 'copping out'. That's bs. "
***Go back and see who said 'cop out', because it wasn't me. And while you're there, re-read the original post and see what he was referring to as a cop out. You're way off. Pay attention and get your facts straight.***
But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it).
"um, no I don't like being called ignorant, because I am not. You shouldn't call anyone ignorant based on your idea of someone else's beliefs. You are the one who stated that it was ignorance and "complete foolishness". Would you appreciate that?
***Umm, I didn't call you or anyone else for that matter, ignorant - I called faith ignorance, and yes I said believing in a superior being that controls our destiny is complete foolishness. That's my opinion. You called me ignorant and to be honest I really don't care what you think. You have twisted facts around, gotten quotes wrong and taken other statements out of context. You stuck your nose in arguments you didn't seem to support, so I don't know why you bother? You just seem to have a bone to pick with me and cry foul every time you get your feelings hurt and then you lash out. Give it a rest. ***
Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.
Please heed your own advice and think about that before you label something as ignorant and foolish.
***Lastly, I said faith was ignorance and that believing in an outdated concept and in a superior being that controls our destiny was foolishness. I did think about it before I said it and after I said it I didn't regret having said it - and I still don't. ***
Post edited by The Waiting Trophy Man on
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
What seems to come through the theists' posts is that, though the god they believe in is a form of the christian god, they reject relgion. What are their thoughts on the 'good book'? Can one dismiss this as well (seeing this is where this god and it's power is revealed).
Also, it seems that each will have their own 'version' of this god, projecting the characteristics they want on their deity, depending on what they seek and what their needs are, taking what they like and dismissing what they don't of this form of christian god.
Maybe a bit of a silly comparison, but I've got this thing for vampires :oops: (yeah, I know - mythical creatures as well...). But really, I like the 'interview with the vampire' style of vampire, not the Nosferatu type. Even with the sexy vampires in Interview, I don't like Lestas, but give me Louis or Armand anytime - wouldn't mind either being my 'maker' and having an eternal life with them! I am projecting my characteristics onto a mythical creature to suit my 'tastes' (for lack of a better word as I really don't want to use 'fantasies' or 'needs'!).
If one has their own idea of what god is, disregarding the 'word', is this 'individual' god not just a projection of the person's desires/needs at the time they seek? God is then just an external aid/entity, moulded to suit, to help focus/channel energy or thoughts or to fulfill some requirement, even some void. A help with a quest? Similar to a mantra when practising yoga - helping to channel or 'clear' the subconcious?
God is personal no wonder we don't all have the same version!
That would only make sense.
As I see it...
He 'shows' himself to believers in the personal way we feel about him
and yes need him. Nothing wrong with needs, we all have them
and the end result is fulfillment.
He is there in every moment of every day
in our sleep.
He guides
challenges
helps people to be aware of others feelings,
for me that has been an important part of having God with me.
People talk the Golden Rule but to live it is damn hard.
We think we are but do not realize how much we hurt others,
judging, generalizing, putting people in categories by their personal beliefs,
color, gender, etc. etc.
The Golden Rule would be pure empathy something we are far from.
Even the division here shows that keenly. The subtle put downs back and forth.
The lack of love and acceptance you see on both sides.
For me I feel this is another way to dislike each other....
"Oh I don't like her she believes in God and she thinks she is superior.
Oh, I don't like him because he doesn't believe in God, I will never be able to trust him"
But the truth is neither of those statements are true.
Our fears lead us to that place.
They cloud the truth and keep us from loving and accepting each other
which one would hope everyone would want to do.
Fear the number one killer of love. Lets put them away and learn to love each other
and try to understand we are not really different at all.
Comments
And like I said earlier, you don't need prayers to spread love and generosity. You do it by being a good person and treating others how you want to be treated and by helping others in tangible ways.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
So is god. Or gods.
I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
[I see you edited your post. First you said "your opinion" and left it at that. Then you added a rebuttal. So here's mine: I don't think I'm ignorant at all about your belief system. I know everything I need to know and I don't have to prove to you why your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing is complete foolishness.[/quote][/quote]
I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.
I hope you don't take this personally as i don't mean to offend but you have a narrow view of how people view god. you are right that some see god as their protector as such but other don't so i think calling them ignorant is not correct.[/quote]
ya got that right!!!
I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.
That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.
Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world
We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.
I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.[/quote]
I think I know a little bit about your belief system.
This is what you posted a few pages back:
"I know I do believe in God, though."
and
"Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it".
And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith". So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me. But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it). Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.
btw, I edited my original post on page 21 and took at "your" in 2 places.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Nice post. Thumbs up!
Personally, I was born and brought up a Muslim, but it's only in the last couple of years that I've taken time out to try and understand my religion. I've always had faith, but it was more blind faith than anything else. I've found that questioning the things that I didn't completely understand, but just accepted as truth regardless, has actually made my faith stronger. I believe with more conviction now than I ever did.
I am of the view that everyone has the right to believe what they want out of their own free will and no one has the right to compel anyone else to believe. The free will we have is a God-given right, no one can take it away from us. If it was God's will that everyone of us should believe, then we would. He's left it up to us, we have to make that decision ourselves.
I hope you do and can too.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.[/quote]
So is god. Or gods.[/quote]
and i beg to differ that god is a man-made entity. but it seems that I have a different view of what god is.
You and I don't think about God in the same way...
you have a presumed opinion of me for sure and of my beliefs.
I'll be dead.... so if there is nothing thats what I get when I leave
but yes living my life believing in God is way ok with me
even if I am wrong...faith is not something you turn off and on
it is found..I found it on my journey and I'm glad of it.
I think the second half is maybe more you?? what you were taught
or is what you would presume a believer to believe
a little fire and brimstone I guess
My God is not upset with people...he doesn't need to be worshiped.
He does not punish...He doesn't judge
He does not save us from tragedy
he only provides comfort and love.
He loves us all.
but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.[/quote]
So is god. Or gods.[/quote]
and i beg to differ that god is a man-made entity. but it seems that I have a different view of what god is.[/quote]
Well.. maybe not 'made' per se, but from early times, what man could not understand and potentially feared, such as lightening for example - they tried to explain by a 'force' (god) which they revered and appeased (with offerings/rituals/prayers). So I would say, yes, man 'created' god in a way. An entity who could be 'responsible' for those things happening. Rituals around this entity became a religion in some sorts.
Edit: looks like the quoting went crazy again!
Edit: looks like the quoting went crazy again![/quote]
I think the characteristics of god are man made. this view that god is there to listen to our problems and takes sides in wars or makes people win Grammies. I don't believe that, but i do know people who say that prayer does do something for them and it gives them the inner-power. and you know what great.
I also feel my faith grows stronger as I walk my path and I see the choices I have been given.
but I also feel this is true for the nonbelievers as well.
The strength of their convictions, the life lessons, the love grows stronger, wisdom deepens,
life choices made on their path in life too.
We are really not different.
Gotcha dude. But how do you know know you've never died before? Maybe you've been re-incarnated? Don't try and tell me that it's impossible because you can't prove otherwise.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Reincarnation is an interesting subject. I think about it quite often. I had a thought about it the other day. That basically maybe it's possible that a part of us is reincarnated within our offspring?? And that's why living beings are so inherently struggling to reproduce? I understand that without reproduction life would cease to exist. But why does nature exist the way it does? I find instincts to be amazing. So is it also possible that other than our genes, some part of us lives on? No one really knows.
its a beautiful thought that I could come back as a bird....
a female rufous sided towhee... she's beautiful, chocolate brown with a pale orange breast
her mate dressed to kill in a black and white tuxedo and a dark orange vest (JB
to fly in the sky
lay eggs and feed little baby birds
and send them on their way
then do it again
and no matter the weather
we live outside in nature..a bush our home
could be heaven
Even if we were, and my own beliefs are closer to this than i'll go into, wouldn't God still be God?
I always love how when people talk about reincarnation they always think they will come back some cool like what you said above. you never hear someone accept that they may come back as earth worm or something like that, its like when you see a commercial about the humane society you never see an ugly pet.
its a little daydream...I dream the good stuff :thumbup:
that's what I'd like to know from the theists. If some little green men arrived saying they were our creator, I bet 100% of them would renounce their faith.
Or burn the little buggers at the stake.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I seriously want to know what you mean. I'm interested.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think I know a little bit about your belief system.
This is what you posted a few pages back:
"I know I do believe in God, though."
-My posting and my statement that I believe in God does not tell you very much about my entire belief system and you were being pretentious and condescending.
and
"Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it".
And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".
-again, pretentious and condescending. You wouldn't 'mistake me for a "true believer"'?? What does that mean?? You say that with such a sense of self-righteousness and judgment as though there is something inherently wrong with someone being a 'believer'--is it your purpose to attack and tear down someone's opinion that is different from your own??
"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith".
--I defended the person who told you that you needed to prove that god doesn't exist by merely saying "Faith is not a cop out. And it's not a scientific concept". I never addressed the issue of proof in any way, shape or form--I did not directly defend anything that person said about you needing to prove that god doesn't exist. I don't think it can be proven nor disproven; to me, it is a separate entity from science, therefore, I purposely did not address the issue of proof.
So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me.
-It wasn't an argument. It was a statement of my opinion. Regardless of what I believe, it unnerves me that someone would say, or imply, to a person who believes is in some way 'copping out'. That's bs.
But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it).
--um, no I don't like being called ignorant, because I am not. You shouldn't call anyone ignorant based on your idea of someone else's beliefs. You are the one who stated that it was ignorance and "complete foolishness". Would you appreciate that?
Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.
Please heed your own advice and think about that before you label something as ignorant and foolish.
***Lastly, I said faith was ignorance and that believing in an outdated concept and in a superior being that controls our destiny was foolishness. I did think about it before I said it and after I said it I didn't regret having said it - and I still don't. ***
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Also, it seems that each will have their own 'version' of this god, projecting the characteristics they want on their deity, depending on what they seek and what their needs are, taking what they like and dismissing what they don't of this form of christian god.
Maybe a bit of a silly comparison, but I've got this thing for vampires :oops: (yeah, I know - mythical creatures as well...). But really, I like the 'interview with the vampire' style of vampire, not the Nosferatu type. Even with the sexy vampires in Interview, I don't like Lestas, but give me Louis or Armand anytime - wouldn't mind either being my 'maker' and having an eternal life with them! I am projecting my characteristics onto a mythical creature to suit my 'tastes' (for lack of a better word as I really don't want to use 'fantasies' or 'needs'!).
If one has their own idea of what god is, disregarding the 'word', is this 'individual' god not just a projection of the person's desires/needs at the time they seek? God is then just an external aid/entity, moulded to suit, to help focus/channel energy or thoughts or to fulfill some requirement, even some void. A help with a quest? Similar to a mantra when practising yoga - helping to channel or 'clear' the subconcious?
That would only make sense.
As I see it...
He 'shows' himself to believers in the personal way we feel about him
and yes need him. Nothing wrong with needs, we all have them
and the end result is fulfillment.
He is there in every moment of every day
in our sleep.
He guides
challenges
helps people to be aware of others feelings,
for me that has been an important part of having God with me.
People talk the Golden Rule but to live it is damn hard.
We think we are but do not realize how much we hurt others,
judging, generalizing, putting people in categories by their personal beliefs,
color, gender, etc. etc.
The Golden Rule would be pure empathy something we are far from.
Even the division here shows that keenly. The subtle put downs back and forth.
The lack of love and acceptance you see on both sides.
For me I feel this is another way to dislike each other....
"Oh I don't like her she believes in God and she thinks she is superior.
Oh, I don't like him because he doesn't believe in God, I will never be able to trust him"
But the truth is neither of those statements are true.
Our fears lead us to that place.
They cloud the truth and keep us from loving and accepting each other
which one would hope everyone would want to do.
Fear the number one killer of love. Lets put them away and learn to love each other
and try to understand we are not really different at all.