but it touches on what i said before on this chat. where's the accountability? why does your god have to be involved and the cause for everything? people have good in them, so why can't i be in YOUR thoughts? why drag god into everything?
oh something bad happened. it was gods will.
something good happened. praise be to god.
it's annoying to me.
I don't see how someone saying he'll pray for you could be such a big deal. It's just their way of showing that they care. Mine might be giving a big hug, but would it be right if someone pushes me away saying they don't like being hugged? It's just a statement, the person making it isn't thinking of God when he said it, he's thinking of you. I personally feel that should be enough.
Just as a believer shouldn't be annoyed by an atheist's lack of belief, an atheist shouldn't be annoyed by a believer's strength of it.
i must admit it depends on what kind of mood i'm in that day. sometimes 'i'll pray for you' doesn't bother me, sometimes it does. and i've said before it also depends on the context.
i don't care if you're a believer or not. but why is your god required in praying for me? can't you alone just send me positive thoughts? why do you need 'help'?
Post edited by blondieblue227 on
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
You call it an empty gesture when you know it is meant to be a loving gesture,
I don't believe when a human being prays for another it is the least bit selfish,
that is not the motivation in prayer. Opposite of that more like it.
For me, it's an empty gesture because it doesn't mean anything to me. If I offer something to someone knowing it's 'not for them', the gesture is empty and selfish as I am doing this for myself - what I think is a loving gesture, not what the recipient of this gesture thinks. God is behind a prayer for theists... enough said about motivation.
As far as a vegetarian... I would not expect someone to eat meat but they wouldn't expect me not to serve it either. They would graciously ignore the meat not leave the table.
.
When I have vegetarian friends over, I first find out if having meat on the table offends them if they are 'new' friends (yep... it does to a lot). If it does I would NEVER even think of serving meat (with a vegetarian option). Even if it doesn't, I am inviting people over to share food and a lovely evening, I am sensitive to their likes and dislikes. If I know someone does not eat meat, I don't serve it, even if I REALLY want a nice juicy steak. My 'love' is reflected in how I act with them, ie. they don't eat meat, I won't be rude in serving meat. Same with prayer - I don't want a prayer, don't be rude and pray for me or pray for 'god' to help me through whatever hard times I'm going through. If you 'need' to pray for a non believer, do it in privacy without broadcasting it. Just like if you feel you really need to eat meat when you have vegetarian friends over for dinner, have your steak at lunch and don't offend them by splashing it out on the table when they are there.
Mine might be giving a big hug, but would it be right if someone pushes me away saying they don't like being hugged?
If you knew this person didn't want to be hugged, you would be wrong in still doing so. If you didn't know and this person pushes you away saying he/she didn't liked to be hugged, he/she would be perfectly right in doing so. If you still insisted in hugging after that, you would be wrong. Even if you say it's your way of showing love. It's not their way of receiving it and it shouldn't be 'forced' upon them. You and that person will most probably have other common ways of showing/understanding love (handshake? Smile? A meaningful exchange of words?) Not difficult to understand, really.
You call it an empty gesture when you know it is meant to be a loving gesture,
I don't believe when a human being prays for another it is the least bit selfish,
that is not the motivation in prayer. Opposite of that more like it.
For me, it's an empty gesture because it doesn't mean anything to me. If I offer something to someone knowing it's 'not for them', the gesture is empty and selfish as I am doing this for myself - what I think is a loving gesture, not what the recipient of this gesture thinks. God is behind a prayer for theists... enough said about motivation.
As far as a vegetarian... I would not expect someone to eat meat but they wouldn't expect me not to serve it either. They would graciously ignore the meat not leave the table.
.
When I have vegetarian friends over, I first find out if having meat on the table offends them if they are 'new' friends (yep... it does to a lot). If it does I would NEVER even think of serving meat (with a vegetarian option). Even if it doesn't, I am inviting people over to share food and a lovely evening, I am sensitive to their likes and dislikes. If I know someone does not eat meat, I don't serve it, even if I REALLY want a nice juicy steak. My 'love' is reflected in how I act with them, ie. they don't eat meat, I won't be rude in serving meat. Same with prayer - I don't want a prayer, don't be rude and pray for me or pray for 'god' to help me through whatever hard times I'm going through. If you 'need' to pray for a non believer, do it in privacy without broadcasting it. Just like if you feel you really need to eat meat when you have vegetarian friends over for dinner, have your steak at lunch and don't offend them by splashing it out on the table when they are there.
I serve meat along with a veggie option because I am not only serving a vegetarian...
there are many people at my table and if someone decides to say grace...
I will respect them and their religion and their prayer
just a I would expect everyone at the table to do so also, graciously.
And I am sorry you will not except loving gestures from the heart because you can not and will not.
Love is love redrock .... like Eddie sings
'I used to try and kill love, it was the highest sin'
most especially because its not just exactly the way you want it....
love a 2way street and should be appreciated and not shunned.
Mine might be giving a big hug, but would it be right if someone pushes me away saying they don't like being hugged?
If you knew this person didn't want to be hugged, you would be wrong in still doing so. If you didn't know and this person pushes you away saying he/she didn't liked to be hugged, he/she would be perfectly right in doing so. If you still insisted in hugging after that, you would be wrong. Even if you say it's your way of showing love. It's not their way of receiving it and it shouldn't be 'forced' upon them. You and that person will most probably have other common ways of showing/understanding love (handshake? Smile? A meaningful exchange of words?) Not difficult to understand, really.
If I knew he didn't like being hugged, I wouldn't hug him in the first place, period. I'm assuming in this scenario that the person saying 'I'll pray for you' said it as he would for anyone else, without considering the beliefs of the other person. The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
exactly. i've had that happen to me. it's condescending and judgmental.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
And I am sorry you will not except loving gestures from the heart because you can not and will not..
:roll: Yeah.... I guess I'm a cold bitch, closed mind and closed heart.... No need to feel sorry for me (condescending?) I've got plenty of love in my life.
like Eddie sings
'I used to try and kill love, it was the highest sin'
most especially because its not just exactly the way you want it....
love a 2way street and should be appreciated and not shunned.
The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
Exactly. Not necessary to go on great discourses about not accepting love, having a closed mind/heart, feeling sorry for that person etc.
If that person does not reciprocate that kind of 'love', then no need to find negative reasons/traits to try to explain to yourself why shouldn't someone want this 'marvellous' thing that you want to give.
The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
exactly. i've had that happen to me. it's condescending and judgmental.
In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.
And I am sorry you will not except loving gestures from the heart because you can not and will not..
:roll: Yeah.... I guess I'm a cold bitch, closed mind and closed heart.... No need to feel sorry for me (condescending?) I've got plenty of love in my life.
like Eddie sings
'I used to try and kill love, it was the highest sin'
most especially because its not just exactly the way you want it....
love a 2way street and should be appreciated and not shunned.
Inside Job lyrics.. and?
I didn't know one could have enough love in their life...or too much
I thought love was always wanted and needed
if not for oneself
maybe for the one giving it?
There is always the other person to consider.
I do not feel superior to you that is what condescending means,
I feel sorry that you will not reconsider
and accept love that is given to you, in the manner the giver gives.
That is what I mean by 'I am sorry'... at the situation not sorry for you.
In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.
i try.
hard to do when so many wave their believe in my face.
don't see non-believers do that.
but that's the nature of religion. to spread it around.
you don't see non-believers prancing around asking/showing others to non-believe.
share love, not the love of your god.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
Exactly. Not necessary to go on great discourses about not accepting love, having a closed mind/heart, feeling sorry for that person etc.
If that person does not reciprocate that kind of 'love', then no need to find negative reasons/traits to try to explain to yourself why shouldn't someone want this 'marvellous' thing that you want to give.
My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.
I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.
when I am out and about... bars, restaurants, stores etc...
I say thank you and someone replies
"no problem" :? no problem that is your polite response?
it's 'you're welcome' a kind offering ...of acceptance
I see it as some strange new gesture that perhaps some feel is polite
when in fact they are expressing that I really didn't put them out, it was no problem.
Well thank you very much :( ... and I'll just take your sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.
If someone says 'my thoughts and prayers are with you'
perhaps the atheist could just shrug it off and take the sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.....
seeing that it was not meant to offend.
In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.
i try.
hard to do when so many wave their believe in my face.
don't see non-believers do that.
but that's the nature of religion. to spread it around.
you don't see non-believers prancing around asking/showing others to non-believe.
share love, not the love of your god.
On the contrary, I see many non-believers shoving their lack of faith in believers' faces and explaining to them how illogical it is to believe in a God. It works both ways.
Most religions encourage their followers to invite others to their faith through their knowledge, strength of character and personal example. A believer, unless he happens to be really dense, would be able to sense if the person he is talking to is actually interested in what he has to say. Otherwise, he's just wasting his own time and energy. I've met atheists who were open to having discussions about religion, they didn't make me feel as if religion was off-limits as a topic of discussion. We may not have budged from our original positions, but we engaged in a civilized discussion all the same. If I see that someone is inquisitive about what I have to say, I will gradually open up. If not, I'll go back to minding my business.
My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.
I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.
It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg
As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.
My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.
I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.
It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg
As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.
No disagreements here, I don't see anything unreasonable about respecting another person's wishes. Also, I don't see anything unreasonable about someone accepting another person's well-meaning gesture, even if there was an element in it not exactly to his liking. Nothing wrong in telling the other person about it either, so he knows.
My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.
I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.
It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg
As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.
I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....
I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....
Yes, I choose to dislike the fact that it is suggested I am 'lacking' because I am not accepting 'all the love I can get' (a whole post + your responses about it). That one feels sorry for me because I won't reconsider (reconsider what?). I do not dislike prayer or religion or believers (contrary to what you may want to suggest).
I REALLY don't care what theists do or not, if one wants to pray - do it - no need to justify why by turning things onto the atheist. Do it, but not on my behalf or for me.
I am not judging belief or non belief, I am commenting on actions. You are as judgmental in your comments as you think I may be.
You believe all should accept prayers whether one believes in them or not. I say I have the perfect right not to accept them (example of the hugs was a 'physical' representation of this 'love') a. You can also just turn around and say that you don't care and that you will continue to pray.
I'll leave it at this Pandora. Your posts are a good example of what I'm trying to say when it comes to 'not shoving things down one's throat'. I don't need/believe in your prayers (or anyone else's), I don't need a whole dissertation on how I'm missing out on something, not accepting love, closed hearted, need to reconsider.
You believe you should pray and we should graciously accept, even if you know we don't believe and you feel hurt if we don't. I believe that I don't have to accept your prayers and I won't be missing out on anything.
I'm not responding to such posts anymore andI will let you have the last word, if you need to.
I'm either a victim to you or I am condescending..
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....
Yes, I choose to dislike the fact that it is suggested I am 'lacking' because I am not accepting 'all the love I can get' (a whole post + your responses about it). That one feels sorry for me because I won't reconsider (reconsider what?). I do not dislike prayer or religion or believers (contrary to what you may want to suggest).
I REALLY don't care what theists do or not, if one wants to pray - do it - no need to justify why by turning things onto the atheist. Do it, but not on my behalf or for me.
I am not judging belief or non belief, I am commenting on actions. You are as judgmental in your comments as you think I may be.
You believe all should accept prayers whether one believes in them or not. I say I have the perfect right not to accept them (example of the hugs was a 'physical' representation of this 'love') and the perfect right to tell you I do not wish to accept them. You can also just turn around and say that you don't care and that you will continue to pray.
I'll leave it at this Pandora. Your posts are a good example of what I'm trying to say when it comes to 'not shoving things down one's throat'. I don't need/believe in your prayers (or anyone else's), I don't need a whole dissertation on how I'm missing out on something, not accepting love, closed hearted, need to reconsider.
You believe you should pray and we should graciously accept, even if you know we don't believe and you feel hurt if we don't. I believe that I don't have to accept your prayers and I won't be missing out on anything.
I'm not responding to such posts anymore andI will let you have the last word, if you need to.
Thank you ...
If you read my original post
I asked the questions to try grasp the why because I have seen it many times...
'don't pray for me'
and I don't understand it when someones motives are loving.
They are not forcing anything on the atheist just showing love the way they know how.
As in the 1 and 2 Paul David explains which I agree with, we are speaking of genuine #1
You have projected on me what you think my motives are, my tone and manner
judging where I am coming from in a negative way
And now I am more confused because you say you do not dislike prayer etc...
'but just don't do it for me I do not want it or need it.'
But if this is how some one shows love should we not accept that?
Out of respect for another human being.
Not much different then my "no problem" encounters
I accept the "no problem" reply to my thank you although
I find it rather offensive...not loving like 'you're welcome'
an atheist could accept "you are in my thoughts and prayers"?
as a kind gesture given...because that is the way it was intended.
But if an atheist does not see it as kind then they are bound to be offended,
so perhaps it is how we perceive the gesture....
and the words we write here
I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.
2000: Manchester
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes 2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.
If people really knew God and understood religion, their would be less wars, if they really knew what religion teaches, their would be probably no wars, Citing that religion is the cause of most wars is just silly. Rather we should blame peoples own lack of understanding as being the cause of most wars.
Also you can't take the concept away, without examining many other factors of human evolution and conscience thought.
I think the world would be alot simpler if there was no religion. There'd certainly be less wars for a start.
not all wars are started because of the belief in a religion...the current war in iraq is not based on religious belief.
if there was less greed and jealousy in the world there would be a lot fewer wars...
i know i was born and i know that i'll die
the inbetween is mine
----------------------------------------------------
FEB 11, 13, 14 Sydney 2003
NOV 7, 8, 18, 2006 Sydney
NOV 20, 2009 Melbourne
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MAR 18 & 19 2012 Sydney EV Solo
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FEB 12 & 14 2014 Sydney EV Solo
I was baptised methodist, but raised Catholic by my Catholic mother (was only baptised that way cos both my parents were in the Army stationed in West Germany where I was born and he was the only priest on base..)
I know not everyone believes in this kind of thing..I've had my fair share of being called a witch or a nutter from the religious and non-religious alike..but I know what I see is real. I have seen heaven and hell (part of it, anyways). I've also been shown that our final judgement is based on how we treated others. Did we intentionally hurt others, do we truely regret it..Trust me, the terrorists who flew planes into the towers did not make it into heaven. No way, no how..
Curiously, I haven't seen a 'God' of sorts. Actually heaven is more like just a continuance of life. We don't change. If you are a human here, you will be there as well..No dying and coming back as a cougar..unless you mean the middle-aged female human kind LoL..OMG the peaceful feeling is so undescribable! It just embraces every inch of your being..it's just so absolutely beautiful..
It's kinda hard for me not to believe in heaven, and the afterlife, after seeing these things..I don't expect to be believed..I'm used to that.
Comments
I don't see how someone saying he'll pray for you could be such a big deal. It's just their way of showing that they care. Mine might be giving a big hug, but would it be right if someone pushes me away saying they don't like being hugged? It's just a statement, the person making it isn't thinking of God when he said it, he's thinking of you. I personally feel that should be enough.
Just as a believer shouldn't be annoyed by an atheist's lack of belief, an atheist shouldn't be annoyed by a believer's strength of it.
i don't care if you're a believer or not. but why is your god required in praying for me? can't you alone just send me positive thoughts? why do you need 'help'?
For me, it's an empty gesture because it doesn't mean anything to me. If I offer something to someone knowing it's 'not for them', the gesture is empty and selfish as I am doing this for myself - what I think is a loving gesture, not what the recipient of this gesture thinks. God is behind a prayer for theists... enough said about motivation.
When I have vegetarian friends over, I first find out if having meat on the table offends them if they are 'new' friends (yep... it does to a lot). If it does I would NEVER even think of serving meat (with a vegetarian option). Even if it doesn't, I am inviting people over to share food and a lovely evening, I am sensitive to their likes and dislikes. If I know someone does not eat meat, I don't serve it, even if I REALLY want a nice juicy steak. My 'love' is reflected in how I act with them, ie. they don't eat meat, I won't be rude in serving meat. Same with prayer - I don't want a prayer, don't be rude and pray for me or pray for 'god' to help me through whatever hard times I'm going through. If you 'need' to pray for a non believer, do it in privacy without broadcasting it. Just like if you feel you really need to eat meat when you have vegetarian friends over for dinner, have your steak at lunch and don't offend them by splashing it out on the table when they are there.
there are many people at my table and if someone decides to say grace...
I will respect them and their religion and their prayer
just a I would expect everyone at the table to do so also, graciously.
And I am sorry you will not except loving gestures from the heart because you can not and will not.
Love is love redrock .... like Eddie sings
'I used to try and kill love, it was the highest sin'
most especially because its not just exactly the way you want it....
love a 2way street and should be appreciated and not shunned.
If I knew he didn't like being hugged, I wouldn't hug him in the first place, period. I'm assuming in this scenario that the person saying 'I'll pray for you' said it as he would for anyone else, without considering the beliefs of the other person. The other person should appreciate the sentiment and politely tell him that he would prefer if he didn't use the word prayer, if it really bugs him that much. After that, if the person keeps saying 'I'll pray for for you' despite knowing that it irks the other person, then he isn't saying it with any degree of honesty, he just wants to annoy him. Pretty simple.
exactly. i've had that happen to me. it's condescending and judgmental.
I find common ground amongst all my guests and go with that.
:roll: Yeah.... I guess I'm a cold bitch, closed mind and closed heart.... No need to feel sorry for me (condescending?) I've got plenty of love in my life.
Inside Job lyrics.. and?
Exactly. Not necessary to go on great discourses about not accepting love, having a closed mind/heart, feeling sorry for that person etc.
If that person does not reciprocate that kind of 'love', then no need to find negative reasons/traits to try to explain to yourself why shouldn't someone want this 'marvellous' thing that you want to give.
In that case, I suggest you not waste your time with such people because they're just trying to get under your skin.
I thought love was always wanted and needed
if not for oneself
maybe for the one giving it?
There is always the other person to consider.
I do not feel superior to you that is what condescending means,
I feel sorry that you will not reconsider
and accept love that is given to you, in the manner the giver gives.
That is what I mean by 'I am sorry'... at the situation not sorry for you.
i try.
hard to do when so many wave their believe in my face.
don't see non-believers do that.
but that's the nature of religion. to spread it around.
you don't see non-believers prancing around asking/showing others to non-believe.
share love, not the love of your god.
My impression throughout was of an atheist taking offense at the mere fact that someone told him he would pray for him. That's just silly. When you're talking about someone deliberately shoving something down the other's throat, that's quite a different thing.
I have a friend who used to be an atheist and we got along fine, even while discussing religion quite a lot. That's why I'm finding it hard to grasp what could be so offensive at the mere mention of anything that happens to touch on God or belief, when it wasn't even the subject of the conversation.
when I am out and about... bars, restaurants, stores etc...
I say thank you and someone replies
"no problem" :? no problem that is your polite response?
it's 'you're welcome' a kind offering ...of acceptance
I see it as some strange new gesture that perhaps some feel is polite
when in fact they are expressing that I really didn't put them out, it was no problem.
Well thank you very much :( ... and I'll just take your sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.
If someone says 'my thoughts and prayers are with you'
perhaps the atheist could just shrug it off and take the sentiment for what it is worth,
as nerve wracking as that is.....
seeing that it was not meant to offend.
On the contrary, I see many non-believers shoving their lack of faith in believers' faces and explaining to them how illogical it is to believe in a God. It works both ways.
Most religions encourage their followers to invite others to their faith through their knowledge, strength of character and personal example. A believer, unless he happens to be really dense, would be able to sense if the person he is talking to is actually interested in what he has to say. Otherwise, he's just wasting his own time and energy. I've met atheists who were open to having discussions about religion, they didn't make me feel as if religion was off-limits as a topic of discussion. We may not have budged from our original positions, but we engaged in a civilized discussion all the same. If I see that someone is inquisitive about what I have to say, I will gradually open up. If not, I'll go back to minding my business.
It's not 'taking offense at the mere fact'. If someone doesn't know - fair enough, once you know - not right. Arguments on this thread, insisting that the atheist is somewhat 'lacking' and should maybe 'reform' eg is plain condescending.
As I said, I have a number of friends which are theist (whichever god, however they may practice religion or not), even a couple of priests. No problems, great discussions, no topic off limits. It's the MANNER in which things are said. That's all.
Of course, me too. No offense taken at all, or intended
No disagreements here, I don't see anything unreasonable about respecting another person's wishes. Also, I don't see anything unreasonable about someone accepting another person's well-meaning gesture, even if there was an element in it not exactly to his liking. Nothing wrong in telling the other person about it either, so he knows.
good.
now, i can't speak for others here.........
this you have spoken to me many times
you choose to hear the tone.... you choose the manner ...you choose to judge
and you choose to dislike ....
Yes, I choose to dislike the fact that it is suggested I am 'lacking' because I am not accepting 'all the love I can get' (a whole post + your responses about it). That one feels sorry for me because I won't reconsider (reconsider what?). I do not dislike prayer or religion or believers (contrary to what you may want to suggest).
I REALLY don't care what theists do or not, if one wants to pray - do it - no need to justify why by turning things onto the atheist. Do it, but not on my behalf or for me.
I am not judging belief or non belief, I am commenting on actions. You are as judgmental in your comments as you think I may be.
You believe all should accept prayers whether one believes in them or not. I say I have the perfect right not to accept them (example of the hugs was a 'physical' representation of this 'love') a. You can also just turn around and say that you don't care and that you will continue to pray.
I'll leave it at this Pandora. Your posts are a good example of what I'm trying to say when it comes to 'not shoving things down one's throat'. I don't need/believe in your prayers (or anyone else's), I don't need a whole dissertation on how I'm missing out on something, not accepting love, closed hearted, need to reconsider.
You believe you should pray and we should graciously accept, even if you know we don't believe and you feel hurt if we don't. I believe that I don't have to accept your prayers and I won't be missing out on anything.
I'm not responding to such posts anymore andI will let you have the last word, if you need to.
If you read my original post
I asked the questions to try grasp the why because I have seen it many times...
'don't pray for me'
and I don't understand it when someones motives are loving.
They are not forcing anything on the atheist just showing love the way they know how.
As in the 1 and 2 Paul David explains which I agree with, we are speaking of genuine #1
You have projected on me what you think my motives are, my tone and manner
judging where I am coming from in a negative way
And now I am more confused because you say you do not dislike prayer etc...
'but just don't do it for me I do not want it or need it.'
But if this is how some one shows love should we not accept that?
Out of respect for another human being.
Not much different then my "no problem" encounters
I accept the "no problem" reply to my thank you although
I find it rather offensive...not loving like 'you're welcome'
an atheist could accept "you are in my thoughts and prayers"?
as a kind gesture given...because that is the way it was intended.
But if an atheist does not see it as kind then they are bound to be offended,
so perhaps it is how we perceive the gesture....
and the words we write here
moving on...
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Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
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If people really knew God and understood religion, their would be less wars, if they really knew what religion teaches, their would be probably no wars, Citing that religion is the cause of most wars is just silly. Rather we should blame peoples own lack of understanding as being the cause of most wars.
Also you can't take the concept away, without examining many other factors of human evolution and conscience thought.
not all wars are started because of the belief in a religion...the current war in iraq is not based on religious belief.
if there was less greed and jealousy in the world there would be a lot fewer wars...
or an alternative to oil.
...oh wait. there is but nobody cares because there's no money to be made off it.
I know not everyone believes in this kind of thing..I've had my fair share of being called a witch or a nutter from the religious and non-religious alike..but I know what I see is real. I have seen heaven and hell (part of it, anyways). I've also been shown that our final judgement is based on how we treated others. Did we intentionally hurt others, do we truely regret it..Trust me, the terrorists who flew planes into the towers did not make it into heaven. No way, no how..
Curiously, I haven't seen a 'God' of sorts. Actually heaven is more like just a continuance of life. We don't change. If you are a human here, you will be there as well..No dying and coming back as a cougar..unless you mean the middle-aged female human kind LoL..OMG the peaceful feeling is so undescribable! It just embraces every inch of your being..it's just so absolutely beautiful..
It's kinda hard for me not to believe in heaven, and the afterlife, after seeing these things..I don't expect to be believed..I'm used to that.