Religious Beliefs

fife

Paul David wrote:

it's hard to un-learn all those years of brainwa......um, church-going.

fife wrote:

I find that most people when talking about god have a narrow view of what god means. most people humanize god, give god human characteristics like judging or creating or controlling. and that's maybe not what god is.

but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.

JonnyPistachio

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

Paul David wrote:

part of me thinks this:

why is it that we have tossed aside every other antiquated notion that has come up pre-modern era, except the concept of God? to me, it's because we NEED him. human nature needs hope to cling to, that this isn't all there is.

honestly, and the most important reason we keep god amongst us, and I say this with extreme caution, a godless world would be hopeless world. if 75% of the human race had no consequences to fear, they'd run fucking wild.

we need most of the human population to fear SOMETHING.

BRAVO! They need to add a clapping, smiley guy icon!!

there's also this guy: :thumbup:

yikes! and this guy: :angel:

Godfather.

Paul David wrote:

part of me thinks this:

why is it that we have tossed aside every other antiquated notion that has come up pre-modern era, except the concept of God? to me, it's because we NEED him. human nature needs hope to cling to, that this isn't all there is.

honestly, and the most important reason we keep god amongst us, and I say this with extreme caution, a godless world would be hopeless world. if 75% of the human race had no consequences to fear, they'd run fucking wild.

we need most of the human population to fear SOMETHING.

so you think God is a 2000 + year old fad ? and people have worshiped God in one fashion or an other all this time or even longer and you think it's just a golden rule to keep man in line ?


Godfather.

The Waiting Trophy Man

JonnyPistachio wrote:

there's also this guy: :thumbup:

yikes! and this guy: :angel:

Lol! I bet I know who suggested the latter one to the mods.

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

Paul David wrote:

part of me thinks this:

why is it that we have tossed aside every other antiquated notion that has come up pre-modern era, except the concept of God? to me, it's because we NEED him. human nature needs hope to cling to, that this isn't all there is.

honestly, and the most important reason we keep god amongst us, and I say this with extreme caution, a godless world would be hopeless world. if 75% of the human race had no consequences to fear, they'd run fucking wild.

we need most of the human population to fear SOMETHING.

so you think God is a 2000 + year old fad ? and people have worshiped God in one fashion or an other all this time or even longer and you think it's just a golden rule to keep man in line ?


Godfather.

I know this wasnt directed at me, but yes, to some degree. I woulndt call it a fad though. Its hope and fear and it perpetuates because it cant be proven or disproven.
People have worshiped thousands of different gods for thousands of years -- not just ONE.

The Waiting Trophy Man

JonnyPistachio wrote:

I know this wasnt directed at me, but yes, to some degree. I woulndt call it a fad though. Its hope and fear and it perpetuates because it cant be proven or disproven.
People have worshiped thousands of different gods for thousands of years -- not just ONE.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

And most of them thought the earth was flat and that when there was thunder and lightning it meant that god was angry. So in my opinion they are totally discredited!

Hugh Freaking Dillon

in a word.........yes.

in many words......I think God was invented by man initially because Man couldn't explain why they were there, how to explain all the atrocities and also all the good in the world, so "hey, maybe someone else is pulling the strings".

I think god still has a place because humankind needs one. politicians know it. is it just coincidence that almost all major superpower politicians are god-fearing? nope, it's because

a) they know it leads to the popular vote, and
b) they know that perpetuating that myth is an easy way of controlling the populace and maintaining order in a low-budget way.

I'm with you on this, GF, I'd rather most of the nasty population out there fear god. Keeps me and my godesses safe.

Godfather. wrote:

Paul David wrote:

part of me thinks this:

why is it that we have tossed aside every other antiquated notion that has come up pre-modern era, except the concept of God? to me, it's because we NEED him. human nature needs hope to cling to, that this isn't all there is.

honestly, and the most important reason we keep god amongst us, and I say this with extreme caution, a godless world would be hopeless world. if 75% of the human race had no consequences to fear, they'd run fucking wild.

we need most of the human population to fear SOMETHING.

so you think God is a 2000 + year old fad ? and people have worshiped God in one fashion or an other all this time or even longer and you think it's just a golden rule to keep man in line ?


Godfather.

pandora

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

redrock wrote:

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

BRAVO! They need to add a clapping, smiley guy icon!!

Like him?

Yes!! Lol, I didn't know you could do that. I didn't see it amongst the icons on the right of the screen.

:wave: awesome to just discover new smiles...exciting! :thumbup:

careful though I am addicted

Hugh Freaking Dillon

but what about the potential flip side to this? what if someone were to see her facebook status and be inspired to do something tangible like make a donation or send supplies, etc? it's not just about making oneself feeling better about oneself, but also about spreading the love, so to speak.

in that sense, god or no god, didn't the prayer "work"?

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

I know what you're saying. Another catholic friend (I seem to have a few) of mine recently made her status on facebook "sending thoughts and prayers to the people of Japan". I wanted to comment so bad, but I ignored it to avoid hurting her feelings or starting something. But I felt like saying Instead of sending thoughts and prayers why don't you send something tangible, like donations - something that will actually help the people of Japan. Again it's this crazy belief that prayers have some kind of magical force behind them, when they are nothing but empty gestures that do absolutely nothing to help at all. Human beings have to make these things happen. But I guess it's easier for some people to update their facebook status from their cellphones and pretend they're doing something that helps and that they are good people.

pandora

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

pandora wrote:

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.

Really :? is that not sort of a slap in the face to someone showing compassion and love for another


got to get it while you can anyway you can when its love

condescending
showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others


sending love and prayers for a healthy outcome is not patronizing or superior
is a supportive loving gesture to another human being

seems like love gets lost in this mess and it is all that really matters in the end

You don't have to pray for someone to show them love and compassion. Just tell them you love them and are thinking about them and hope they get better.

There are some good lessons from the bible. Like treat others how you want to be treated. It's a good philosophy to have. But you don't need to do it because the bible says you should. You should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's just being a decent human being.

You shouldn't pray for them if they are not religious (I suppose you could do it without telling them - what they don't know can't hurt them).

I have always felt it is the 'motive behind the madness' ...
if ones heart is in the right place, that is in kindness it should be ok ...

but that is my belief. I try not to judge others and find fault,
often people don't mean to offend.

The Golden Rule ....yes what we should all live by.

Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.

The Waiting Trophy Man

Maybe. But you're talking about human beings donating and lending supplies, which is what I said needed to be done. Human beings have to do this themselves. In that sense, this prayer could have easily been a request by my friend for donations to be made or supplies to be sent instead. It would have had the same effect. Actually, it might have made an even greater effect if she had simply posted a link to a charity and asked her friends to donate. Instead it makes a lot of us read her status and think of it as more religious psycho babble, becauseI was referring to a prayer in the sense that people (like my friend) believe that they are received and answered by god and "he" intervenes to save the day.

And like I said earlier, you don't need prayers to spread love and generosity. You do it by being a good person and treating others how you want to be treated and by helping others in tangible ways.

Paul David wrote:

but what about the potential flip side to this? what if someone were to see her facebook status and be inspired to do something tangible like make a donation or send supplies, etc? it's not just about making oneself feeling better about oneself, but also about spreading the love, so to speak.

in that sense, god or no god, didn't the prayer "work"?

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

I know what you're saying. Another catholic friend (I seem to have a few) of mine recently made her status on facebook "sending thoughts and prayers to the people of Japan". I wanted to comment so bad, but I ignored it to avoid hurting her feelings or starting something. But I felt like saying Instead of sending thoughts and prayers why don't you send something tangible, like donations - something that will actually help the people of Japan. Again it's this crazy belief that prayers have some kind of magical force behind them, when they are nothing but empty gestures that do absolutely nothing to help at all. Human beings have to make these things happen. But I guess it's easier for some people to update their facebook status from their cellphones and pretend they're doing something that helps and that they are good people.

redrock

fife wrote:

Paul David wrote:

it's hard to un-learn all those years of brainwa......um, church-going.

fife wrote:

I find that most people when talking about god have a narrow view of what god means. most people humanize god, give god human characteristics like judging or creating or controlling. and that's maybe not what god is.

but church is different than god. the church (whatever church you want) is a man made entity.

So is god. Or gods.

The Waiting Trophy Man

pandora wrote:

Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.

I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.

EmBleve

yes: edit to the waiting trophy man
[I see you edited your post. First you said "your opinion" and left it at that. Then you added a rebuttal. So here's mine: I don't think I'm ignorant at all about your belief system. I know everything I need to know and I don't have to prove to you why your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing is complete foolishness.[/quote][/quote]

I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.

EmBleve

fife wrote:

Right, it's belief in an outdated concept centered around a fictional supernatural being that controls our destiny. In other words, ignorance.

[/quote]

I hope you don't take this personally as i don't mean to offend but you have a narrow view of how people view god. you are right that some see god as their protector as such but other don't so i think calling them ignorant is not correct.[/quote]

ya got that right!!!

pandora

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

pandora wrote:

Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.

I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.

I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.

I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.

That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.

Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world

We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.

shadowcast

OnTheEdge wrote:

Just curious, alot of people on the train seem to bash religion. Do this many people not believe in god, or heaven, or hell?

I was brought up catholic, and still consider myself so. As a child I was baptised and attended CCD class every weak. Although I don't attend church anymore, nor do I completely devote my life towards preaching the word of god, I still believe in god and heaven. And at times I still pray. Just wondering where other peoples views are on heaven and hell.

If it makes you a better person than fine. But I really find it quite strange that a lot of people who are smart individuals really believe in this stuff. I mean all religion is debunked. There are no facts at all.

The Waiting Trophy Man

EmBleve wrote:

yes: edit to the waiting trophy man
[I see you edited your post. First you said "your opinion" and left it at that. Then you added a rebuttal. So here's mine: I don't think I'm ignorant at all about your belief system. I know everything I need to know and I don't have to prove to you why your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing is complete foolishness.

[/quote]

I edited it because the word 'ignorant' bothered me. Your definition of faith is your opinion. I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME AND YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM!!! Just the fact that you don't know shit about me but you can say 'your blind faith and allegiance to an invisible, man-made thing' is ignorant within itself, so stop judging me and get the hell over yourself.[/quote]



I think I know a little bit about your belief system.

This is what you posted a few pages back:

"I know I do believe in God, though."

and

"Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it".

And maybe if you didn't seem to defend against every argument I make I wouldn't mistake you for a "true believer".

"I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO PROVE ANYTHING TO ME!!!" Not directly, but you did defend the person who told me I needed to prove that god doesn't exist, so WTF? You also defended "faith". So please don't act innocent like you weren't arguing against me. But I will take out "your" from my previous comment and just say "they're" belief system in general. I didn't mean to offend you.But now you're the one saying "you don't know shit about me" and calling me ignorant (even though you apparently don't like it). Maybe we can try to avoid slinging mud and try not to personalize it and debate the topic at hand.

btw, I edited my original post on page 21 and took at "your" in 2 places.

Release_Me

pandora wrote:

The Waiting Trophy Man wrote:

pandora wrote:

Perhaps if someone mistaking says they will pray for you out of love and kindness
you could be lenient with their hearts,
seeing as you may someday say something unintentionally
that a believer may find incredibly cruel and thoughtless
and totally without focus on The Golden Rule.

I am very careful not to offend my catholic friends. Otherwise I wouldn't be friends with them, would I. And I am very respectful of them. For example, I gave my catholic friend a Xmas card. And that's usually how I spell it - Xmas. But knowing her religion and beliefs, I got her a traditional kind of Christmas card and I wrote "Merry Christmas" (I capitalized it and everything). That is being a good friend, I think. Now on the other hand, do you think she repects my beliefs? I didn't get a card that said Merry Xmas. So it's a little one-sided, but I try not to lose too much sleep over it. I feel good as long as I treat my friends how I want to be treated.

I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.

I would hope that the people here are not separated because
one group of people believe in God and one does not.

That doesn't say much for our compassion, nor even our intelligence.

Loving each other and respecting each others choices is the answer
to the division plaguing our world

We came together here in PJ ville because of the common bond...
a love for their music...
this bond can hopefully transcend personal beliefs to bring us together in harmony and love.

Nice post. Thumbs up!
Personally, I was born and brought up a Muslim, but it's only in the last couple of years that I've taken time out to try and understand my religion. I've always had faith, but it was more blind faith than anything else. I've found that questioning the things that I didn't completely understand, but just accepted as truth regardless, has actually made my faith stronger. I believe with more conviction now than I ever did.
I am of the view that everyone has the right to believe what they want out of their own free will and no one has the right to compel anyone else to believe. The free will we have is a God-given right, no one can take it away from us. If it was God's will that everyone of us should believe, then we would. He's left it up to us, we have to make that decision ourselves.

The Waiting Trophy Man

pandora wrote:

I hope you consider us your friends and can treat the believers here with the same respect, religious or otherwise.

I hope you do and can too.