the original poster asked if everyone deserves forgiveness. when you don't forgive someone, you might end up being a bitter, angry person. you can forgive them; but it does not mean you have to hang around them or talk to them.
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
atheists don't believe in a supreme being.
agnostics say they don't know if there is one, or isn't one.
I went to church every sunday until I was 12, when my parents gave me the option. I jumped back on that couch nd I've never looked back.
Seriously, though, I just felt something was "off" when I was that age, and being told all these stories, and how to live and how not to live, and that Jesus loves me no matter what, but God doesn't, and they are the same person, but God is Jesus' father yadda yadda yadda.
But beyond that, I didn't feel that, even if I was a believer, that it was appropriate for anyone to tell me that I needed to be inside this building an hour a week in order to be a true believer. To hear this jackass at the front recycle the same damn stories every year. It didn't make any sense. My parents giving a good portion of their hard-earned money to this guy in a robe who works in this gorgeous building but then preaches about non-materialism and giving to the poor.
Why do churches have to be these ridiculously rich monuments? Isn't that exactly the type of thing that Jesus would have been pissed off at?
to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)
I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.
I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
As far as an afterlife, I don't think that there is any possible way to know absolutely if it does or does not exist until one is dead. And, you may be right that anything to be 'revealed' will be reserved for believers and maybe-ers, but I don't know, nobody does, and I'm not saying that I do. I have no idea.
I edited my post to explain why I didn't believe in an afterlife. Lots of people here make a huge point about believing in god but not in religion and the majority of those will believe in an afterlife. As I said in my previous post, afterlife is a RELIGIOUS (or mythical) concept based on the 'good books/good word' or whatever it is called - this is for all religions who do have an afterlife.
So those not believing in religion will then still pick and choose the bits they like whilst discarding the other bits?
This is interesting, because I have been questioned this in the past by a few hard core christians; my beliefs are not solidified in many respects...I know I do believe in God, though. And, like I said, I think that an afterlife is more spiritual in nature than 'religious' per se. Religions seem to me to be more punitive, judgmental, and hypocritical than what fits my concept of forgiveness and acceptance. And, I guess it could be seen as 'picking and choosing', or it could be seen as not falling into an 'acceptable' interpretation.
the original poster asked if everyone deserves forgiveness. when you don't forgive someone, you might end up being a bitter, angry person. you can forgive them; but it does not mean you have to hang around them or talk to them.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)
I'm curious. When you were growing up, did your parent/guardians take you to church or teach you about God?
or was God or a higher being not mentioned? I'm not trying to start a fight, just curious. one of my friends used to be Lutheran and she told me she stopped believing in God when she was 13.
I believe in God and I believe in Jesus. You aethiests are being prayed for, I hope you know
This is a great question. and it is a question that I think reflects why organized religion is cultural/geographic, and makes me all the more critical of it.
I'd wager that the majority (by far) of people in the world that follow organized religion, do so because of how they were raised (or possibly by dominant religion by geography).
I was raised Lutheran and required to go to church for about 5-6 years until I was about 13. Did baptized, communion, bible class..
I am now like PaulDavid, 99% agnostic (possibly atheist)
And, also not trying to start an argument or be an asshole, but I really hope nobody is praying for me.
interesting, as I have been thinking about this very question recently, and I guess I could say that maybe I do believe in a god, and that would be the force of nature. that being said, it's completely random and has no power over the beings that live under its umbrella.
I have a questions. when we talk about a "god" what does that mean to everyone? Are we talking of god of Socrates, Einstein or the catholic church etc? are we talking about the unmoved mover, the big bang theory.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
paul david, I don't go every Sunday. I only went sometimes, growing up. I was mostly taught the fear of God growing up. I've learned more on my own, from electronic church. Sometimes, I've gone to church on Saturdays. I happen to find going to church (now that I'm older and it's my choice) to be relaxing. I can't explain the beautiful buildings b/c the chairs sure are not comfortable. 1 church I went to was in an elementary school.
The past 20 years, I've only gone to a Catholic church, but I'm Presbyterian. But yes churches need to watch their expenses b/c they have a mortgage payment too. But churches also have fund raising events. And churches are there, even for non believers, when they need help with a bill or a crisis.
I've had my own little miracles. You guys would say they are coincidences; but I call them "angelic intervention."
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
to those saying they are agnostic or aethiest (I really don't know the difference.)
Save your prayers for those who believe in them - might work better
Sorry, but regardless of the subject matter, is THIS comment not patronizing??
Most probably, but this holier than though 'we pray for you' bit is out of line for a lot of atheists. Very condescending - as if we needed praying for.
Obviously it seems to have 'hit a nerve' with someone else as well. He was just a bit more gentle with his retort
b] faith is not taught it is found and not all people need to find it.
[/b]
Our paths take us to the things we need in this life, it is there we find fulfillment,
different for everyone
we FINALLY understand each other.
this has always been my feelings,
always has been about individual needs and freedoms.
I would like to focus on love and compassion more than religious beliefs
to love each other no matter of our differences..to respect and to be kind
But which god? A christian type of god? Or a supernatural being in which one takes 'refuge'? Is religion not god's relevation?
Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it. :thumbup: Oh, and I tee-totally believe in Pearl Jam.
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
No, not to me. Same as if somebody told me that when my mom was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, or when my cat died. Context...
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.
yes, also agreed. Somebody may think it, but don't share it. Please and thank you .
I saw the title and didn't even open this thread(till now) cause I know where these topics end up but I saw this line in an E mail and thought it might fit here,if not please accept my apologies.
"If Muslims can pray on Madison Avenue, why are Christians banned from praying in public schools ?"
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.
Really :? is that not sort of a slap in the face to someone showing compassion and love for another
got to get it while you can anyway you can when its love
condescending
showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others
sending love and prayers for a healthy outcome is not patronizing or superior
is a supportive loving gesture to another human being
seems like love gets lost in this mess and it is all that really matters in the end
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
no. saying it in that context is meaning "I hope you and your family get better". saying it in the other context, the one being thrown around in this thread and previously in other religion threads is "I am praying for your un-pure soul".
THAT is condescending. it's like saying to someone "man, my life is better than yours, I really hope you learn how to turn it around and make it better", when in reality, your life is no better than mine at all. Just different.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
so, if a person is on the All Encompassing Trip....and they post that their ________(insert relationship/spouse/teacher, etc.) has cancer and x months to live. And so if someone replies that they are praying for them, is that condescending?
If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.
Really :? is that not sort of a slap in the face to someone showing compassion and love for another
got to get it while you can anyway you can when its love
condescending
showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others
sending love and prayers for a healthy outcome is not patronizing or superior
is a supportive loving gesture to another human being
seems like love gets lost in this mess and it is all that really matters in the end
You don't have to pray for someone to show them love and compassion. Just tell them you love them and are thinking about them and hope they get better.
There are some good lessons from the bible. Like treat others how you want to be treated. It's a good philosophy to have. But you don't need to do it because the bible says you should. You should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's just being a decent human being.
You shouldn't pray for them if they are not religious (I suppose you could do it without telling them - what they don't know can't hurt them).
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I saw the title and didn't even open this thread(till now) cause I know where these topics end up but I saw this line in an E mail and thought it might fit here,if not please accept my apologies.
"If Muslims can pray on Madison Avenue, why are Christians banned from praying in public schools ?"
Godfather.
christians aren't banned from praying in public schools. teachers are banned from INSTRUCTING the kids to pray in schools. you don't see Muslims forcing passers-by to get down on their knees on madison avenue praying to their god, do you?
Religion is a PRIVATE practice done by those who choose to do so.
Schools are PUBLIC free of all secular teachings.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
agnostics say they don't know if there is one, or isn't one.
I went to church every sunday until I was 12, when my parents gave me the option. I jumped back on that couch nd I've never looked back.
Seriously, though, I just felt something was "off" when I was that age, and being told all these stories, and how to live and how not to live, and that Jesus loves me no matter what, but God doesn't, and they are the same person, but God is Jesus' father yadda yadda yadda.
But beyond that, I didn't feel that, even if I was a believer, that it was appropriate for anyone to tell me that I needed to be inside this building an hour a week in order to be a true believer. To hear this jackass at the front recycle the same damn stories every year. It didn't make any sense. My parents giving a good portion of their hard-earned money to this guy in a robe who works in this gorgeous building but then preaches about non-materialism and giving to the poor.
Why do churches have to be these ridiculously rich monuments? Isn't that exactly the type of thing that Jesus would have been pissed off at?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
This is a great question. and it is a question that I think reflects why organized religion is cultural/geographic, and makes me all the more critical of it.
I'd wager that the majority (by far) of people in the world that follow organized religion, do so because of how they were raised (or possibly by dominant religion by geography).
I was raised Lutheran and required to go to church for about 5-6 years until I was about 13. Did baptized, communion, bible class..
I am now like PaulDavid, 99% agnostic (possibly atheist)
And, also not trying to start an argument or be an asshole, but I really hope nobody is praying for me.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Sorry, but regardless of the subject matter, is THIS comment not patronizing??
But which god? A christian type of god? Or a supernatural being in which one takes 'refuge'? Is religion not god's relevation?
The past 20 years, I've only gone to a Catholic church, but I'm Presbyterian. But yes churches need to watch their expenses b/c they have a mortgage payment too. But churches also have fund raising events. And churches are there, even for non believers, when they need help with a bill or a crisis.
I've had my own little miracles. You guys would say they are coincidences; but I call them "angelic intervention."
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Most probably, but this holier than though 'we pray for you' bit is out of line for a lot of atheists. Very condescending - as if we needed praying for.
Obviously it seems to have 'hit a nerve' with someone else as well. He was just a bit more gentle with his retort
are you talking to redrock, who said to save your prayers? I didn't care that he said it to me.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
always has been about individual needs and freedoms.
I would like to focus on love and compassion more than religious beliefs
to love each other no matter of our differences..to respect and to be kind
then I will know people have understanding
[/quote]
Yes, I noticed that.
are you talking to redrock, who said to save your prayers? I didn't care that he said it to me.[/quote]
Yes, I was.
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Yes, for all intents and purposes, a christian type of god. But now, to really blow your mind, I also find validity in aspects of belief in nature worship, and buddhism. I also believe that Bigfoot might exist, in ghosts, and in some psychic phenomenon. I'm a straight-up space cadet. Proud of it.
are you talking to redrock, who said to save your prayers? I didn't care that he said it to me.[/quote]
Yes, I was.[/quote]
it's hard to clean up the quotes on here, I noticed! you can only have so many embedded....
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
If they've told you they are non-believers, then yes it is.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Yes, I was.[/quote]
it's hard to clean up the quotes on here, I noticed! you can only have so many embedded....[/quote]
Yes, I have trouble with it!!
No, not to me. Same as if somebody told me that when my mom was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago, or when my cat died. Context...
Right, it's belief in an outdated concept centered around a fictional supernatural being that controls our destiny. In other words, ignorance.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
yes, also agreed. Somebody may think it, but don't share it. Please and thank you .
your opinion....and it's befitting that you use the word 'ignorance' in your 'definition' of faith.
Amen, lol
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
"If Muslims can pray on Madison Avenue, why are Christians banned from praying in public schools ?"
Godfather.
got to get it while you can anyway you can when its love
condescending
showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others
sending love and prayers for a healthy outcome is not patronizing or superior
is a supportive loving gesture to another human being
seems like love gets lost in this mess and it is all that really matters in the end
no. saying it in that context is meaning "I hope you and your family get better". saying it in the other context, the one being thrown around in this thread and previously in other religion threads is "I am praying for your un-pure soul".
THAT is condescending. it's like saying to someone "man, my life is better than yours, I really hope you learn how to turn it around and make it better", when in reality, your life is no better than mine at all. Just different.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You don't have to pray for someone to show them love and compassion. Just tell them you love them and are thinking about them and hope they get better.
There are some good lessons from the bible. Like treat others how you want to be treated. It's a good philosophy to have. But you don't need to do it because the bible says you should. You should do it because it's the right thing to do. It's just being a decent human being.
You shouldn't pray for them if they are not religious (I suppose you could do it without telling them - what they don't know can't hurt them).
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
christians aren't banned from praying in public schools. teachers are banned from INSTRUCTING the kids to pray in schools. you don't see Muslims forcing passers-by to get down on their knees on madison avenue praying to their god, do you?
Religion is a PRIVATE practice done by those who choose to do so.
Schools are PUBLIC free of all secular teachings.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014