Why isn't abortion considered murder?

g under p

Digital Twilight wrote:

arq wrote:

Digital Twilight wrote:

Leave the disbaled turtles alone, they have rights too!

That is a really sad image :(

Don't worry, she found love in the end

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -love.html

Some more turtles.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8473968.stm

Wow I'm worn out trying to keep up with this thread. Nice story ad ending to the disabled turtles. We have quite a few here in the lake and canal and they are beautiful to watch lined up bathing in the sun.

Peace

Electric_Delta

HeidiJam wrote:

Why isn't abortion considered murder? for those of you that are pro-choice I would like you to define your logic...

So irresponsible people can live a consequence-free lifestyle.

JonnyPistachio

Electric_Delta wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Why isn't abortion considered murder? for those of you that are pro-choice I would like you to define your logic...

So irresponsible people can live a consequence-free lifestyle.

So narrow minded.. its just not work the time to explain to people who live their lives so perfectly.

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

Either you think human embryo is human or not. Same with the turtle you either think the turtle embryo is a turtle or not, if you are of the opinion that the we need to save the turtle embryo then you are admitting that the embryo is alive and you are in support of ending a humans life. I am not religious nor conservative quit generalizing... and quit being a hypocrite...

dude, i really have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. a human EMBRYO is not a fucking human. it is a POTENTIAL human that requires nourishment from the mother's body for it to even possibly become a human being. i have explained to you why. and i am not going to explain it again. how many embryos are miscarried? is a miscarriage murder? NO, and you can not murder something that is not human yet. is is manslaughter?? NO. is there such a crime as embryoslaughter?? NO. killing a potential human is not the same as killing a human being. an embryo can not survive without the mother. the embryo is basically a parasite existing off of the nourishment from the woman's body. it can do nothing apart from being fed and nourised and incubated by the mother. an embryo is not a sentient being. an embryo is incapable of thought, processing, or feeling pain. it is not a human. i don't know what else i have to do to explain it to you, but it is obvious you are thriving on the attention you are getting in this thread.

who the fuck even brought up the turtle? you did and it has been explained to you countless times that you are comparing APPLES to fucking LETTUCE.

lastly, i am not generalizing and based on your arguments in the many hundreds of posts you made you are a conservative. there is no way for you to argue differently. you have the mindset of a conservative. there is nothing wrong with it, just admit it. and remember tea partiers are still conservatives....
and how am i or anyone else on here being a hypocrite?????

arq

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Electric_Delta wrote:

So irresponsible people can live a consequence-free lifestyle.

So narrow minded.. its just not work the time to explain to people who live their lives so perfectly.

gimmesometruth27

HeidiJam wrote:

_ wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

So it's MY job to birth someone else's kids???

Did you not partake in the act??? Maybe take some fucking responsibility for your actions.

and who are you to judge anyone on here for things that have happened in their life???? your self righteousness would be laughable if it were not so sad.....

pandora

Women abort their fetus because they know it will grow into a human life that they do not want for whatever reason.

So the argument about when the fetus is a human being is kind of ridiculous because the women is taking action against it knowing full well what it is....
what it will be in a few short months, this why she is having an abortion.

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with "malice aforethought"

which could be abortion but it is legal so we are talking morally, in the eyes of God or by moral standards.

This a very personal subject, individually one finds the answer in their heart,
in the fiber of their basic beliefs.

Morals are something that can not be reasonably debated it is the basis of who we are individually.

Abortion is legal and will remain so and should remain so in my opinion.

Morally each women will find what she believes to be the right thing to do in her situation.

Digital Twilight

pandora wrote:

Women abort their fetus because they know it will grow into a human life that they do not want for whatever reason.

So the argument about when the fetus is a human being is kind of ridiculous because the women is taking action against it knowing full well what it is....

I think for most posters here it's the stance/argument of it what it COULD be not what it is now. A lump of clay could become a cup if I moulded it to be that way. If you throw it away instead it is still just a lump of clay.

pandora wrote:

This a very personal subject, individually one finds the answer in their heart,
in the fiber of their basic beliefs.

Morals are something that can not be reasonably debated it is the basis of who we are individually.

Abortion is legal and will remain so and should remain so in my opinion.

Morally each women will find what she believes to be the right thing to do in her situation.

Agreed :thumbup:

pandora

Digital Twilight wrote:

pandora wrote:

Women abort their fetus because they know it will grow into a human life that they do not want for whatever reason.

So the argument about when the fetus is a human being is kind of ridiculous because the women is taking action against it knowing full well what it is....

I think for most posters here it's the stance/argument of it what it COULD be not what it is now. A lump of clay could become a cup if I moulded it to be that way. If you throw it away instead it is still just a lump of clay.

pandora wrote:

This a very personal subject, individually one finds the answer in their heart,
in the fiber of their basic beliefs.

Morals are something that can not be reasonably debated it is the basis of who we are individually.

Abortion is legal and will remain so and should remain so in my opinion.

Morally each women will find what she believes to be the right thing to do in her situation.

Agreed :thumbup:

I get it but they do know its a cup ...well if they allow themselves to know...
it's a painful road for most.
In my case I didn't want to know it was a cup and wouldn't allow myself to realize that...
well til after then it hit me ...
I was lost in a black lonely empty place with no way out for a long time.

Eventually, we try to make peace with what we do.

_

HeidiJam wrote:

he still stands wrote:

Scientifically... life begins when cells begin dividing... just a few hours (maybe a day or two?) after conception.

Conception, to me, is the first moment of that entity's life. That is when the process of a human begins. It's at the bottom of that stairwell, the very first step. That cluster of cells is the most minuscule organization of human construct. Whether or not you agree that cluster should go on to be a human life is an issue of morality, not an issue of science, not a debate of facts, it is morality. Hour 22 or Week 22, those cells will inevitably form a complete human (if void of complications). The issue in abortion is whether or not you will accept that inevitability.

So what does your morality tell you about embryo banks? Let's say you and your wife are having trouble getting pregnant, so you go to one of those fertility clinics where they take some of your wife's eggs & put them together with some of your sperm and make a whole bunch of little embryos. My understanding is that they never implant ALL of them into the woman at the same time, so there are always some that are saved in case they need a second or third try at it. If you & your wife did this and got pregnant on the first try, do you believe you & your wife have a moral obligation to accept the inevitability that these embryos were meant to become people and have your wife incubate each of them into babies - even if it means, say, 15 pregnancies & 15 kids?

arq

_ wrote:

even if it means, say, 15 pregnancies & 15 kids?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/89/24927 ... 6841fa.jpg

Hugh Freaking Dillon

My child was a human the moment my wife told me we were going to have a baby. I can't ever fathom intentionally aborting her or her younger sister.

However, it is no more my right to tell a woman/couple she can't have an abortion any more than it's my right to tell someone they have to quit smoking, or can't get a tattoo, or anything else that is hers, and HERS ALONE.

I don't agree with abortion. But I agree with it being their own choice.

Heidi, you'd do a lot better if you'd stop calling people stupid and using that ridiculous turtle story.

haffajappa

HeidiJam wrote:

So then why do we have signs up around beaches that say "don't disturb the sea turle nest" same goes for animals going extinct?

Next you're going to say Bob Barker advocates murder :(

ForceofNature101

I consider abortion to be a tool that should be used if the woman finds it necessary

A woman should be able to choose for herself instead of a law choosing for her

Byrnzie

_ wrote:

I think it's the double-standards that are the problem. For instance, you go on and on about personal responsibility, yet at the same time want to limit people's options for taking responsibility.

Once a pregnancy has occurred, whether or not it is the result of a lack of personal responsibility to begin with, often times the most RESPONSIBLE thing to do at this point is to have an abortion - especially by your definition of responsibility being all about not bringing children into the world without a certain amount of money. And yet you want to FORCE pregnant women to have children.

Byrnzie

HeidiJam wrote:

Maybe take some fucking responsibility for your actions.

Heidijam, do you regard yourself as a good role model, and as someone who's thoughts and conduct deserve respect?

_

_ wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Conception, to me, is the first moment of that entity's life. That is when the process of a human begins. It's at the bottom of that stairwell, the very first step. That cluster of cells is the most minuscule organization of human construct. Whether or not you agree that cluster should go on to be a human life is an issue of morality, not an issue of science, not a debate of facts, it is morality. Hour 22 or Week 22, those cells will inevitably form a complete human (if void of complications). The issue in abortion is whether or not you will accept that inevitability.

So what does your morality tell you about embryo banks? Let's say you and your wife are having trouble getting pregnant, so you go to one of those fertility clinics where they take some of your wife's eggs & put them together with some of your sperm and make a whole bunch of little embryos. My understanding is that they never implant ALL of them into the woman at the same time, so there are always some that are saved in case they need a second or third try at it. If you & your wife did this and got pregnant on the first try, do you believe you & your wife have a moral obligation to accept the inevitability that these embryos were meant to become people and have your wife incubate each of them into babies - even if it means, say, 15 pregnancies & 15 kids?

Or, more importantly, do you believe your wife should be FORCED to incubate 15 pregnancies to create 15 babies because of SOMEONE ELSE'S morality?

Byrnzie

HeidiJam wrote:

Conception, to me, is the first moment of that entity's life. That is when the process of a human begins. It's at the bottom of that stairwell, the very first step. That cluster of cells is the most minuscule organization of human construct. Whether or not you agree that cluster should go on to be a human life is an issue of morality, not an issue of science, not a debate of facts, it is morality. Hour 22 or Week 22, those cells will inevitably form a complete human (if void of complications). The issue in abortion is whether or not you will accept that inevitability.

The very first step is a sperm fertilizing an egg. But not all fertilized eggs become embryo's, so your desperate attempt to win this debate fails yet again.


And for the record, I don't believe that you genuinely care about this issue. I think you actually couldn't give a shit about what some woman next door does with her body, and that you're really only interested in abusing and bellitling people from your imaginary golden throne of perfection in internet land. And whatever your motivation is, it certainly isn't any love of humanity.

But that's just my take on it.

Go ahead and continue heaping criticism and abuse on everyone less priveleged than yourself...

_

HeidiJam wrote:

_ wrote:

Also, since we're sharing abortion experiences... I had an abortion. It wasn't "used for contraception". It wasn't traumatic. It wasn't an irresponsible choice. It was not a selfish choice. It wasn't the easy solution. It wasn't a decision I made lightly. It was a loving decision, made with my heart. It was a good decision, the right decision, the decision that was best for everyone involved - especially my potential child. I do not feel guilty. And I do not regret my abortion. In fact, research shows that MOST women feel relief, not regret, when they have an abortion.

Who are you to say that ending your childs life was the best decision for them. Any life no matter how bad, is much much better than never existing.

I just realized I read the first part of your post wrong before. WHO am I to say what was best for my potential child? I'm his/her potential mother, that's who! Who are YOU to say what's best for MY potential child??

Smellyman

Why is George Bush not considered a murderer?

I can think of about a million cases against him......