If you want to use outrages Nazi comparisons, I can play that game. You are like a Nazi because you want to force people to have babies who maybe shouldn't. Then you will never give them any sort of healthcare or food when they need it. Forcing them to die of disease and starvation much like the internment camps.
That's almost as ridiculous as your comparison.
Who's forcing anyone to have babies? What the hell are you even talking about?
The only thing ridiculous here is your throwing out arbitrary statements.
The fact remains...Hitler labeled Jews as "non-persons" to justify butchering them. Planned Parenthood and the Pro-Choice crowd label the unborn as "a fetus" or "a tissue mass" to justify butchering them.
What's the difference?
I can't even take this seriously. I tried to show you the ridiculousness of your Nazi comparison, but you continue the embarrassment.
AKA:
* Argumentum ad Nazium
* Reductio ad Hitlerum
Forms:
Adolf Hitler accepted idea I.
Therefore, I must be wrong.
Examples:
Hitler was in favor of euthanasia.
Therefore, euthanasia is wrong.
The Nazis favored eugenics.
Therefore, eugenics is wrong.
Counter-Examples:
Hitler was a vegetarian.
Therefore, vegetarianism is wrong.
The Nazis were conservationists.
Therefore, conservationism is wrong.
*In logic and rhetoric, a fallacy is incorrect reasoning in argumentation resulting in a misconception. By accident or design, fallacies may exploit emotional triggers in the listener or interlocutor (e.g. appeal to emotion), or take advantage of social relationships between people (e.g. argument from authority). Fallacious arguments are often structured using rhetorical patterns that obscure the logical argument, making fallacies more difficult to diagnose. Also, the components of the fallacy may be spread out over separate arguments.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
To answer your question, no it does not make him a bad person. An abortion doesn't make anyone a bad person regardless of the reason. You know, that he has to put his guilt aside because it wasn't his fault. He didn't knowingly know, right ? I can imagine how difficult it is though not to take blame. Some people still go ahead with pregnancies that show signs of further complications when the chid is born for that child. Optimism plays a big role and if it is unfortunate, like in this case, I still wouldn't blame those parents.
Murderers ? Fuck NO! If it were legal, and she was suffering beyond control (surgeries, losing senses, motor skills etc.) I wouldn't hesitate to end her life because you are closer to an unbalanced life for her than a balanced life. Fuck that, I would even contemplate ending my child's life and accepting the consequences. If not, i'd have the best oxycontin dealer going and she would not feel any pain for the rest of her life.
Tell your man I feel his pain & that he is the strongest of humans.
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
To answer your question, no it does not make him a bad person. An abortion doesn't make anyone a bad person regardless of the reason. You know, that he has to put his guilt aside because it wasn't his fault. He didn't knowingly know, right ? I can imagine how difficult it is though not to take blame. Some people still go ahead with pregnancies that show signs of further complications when the chid is born for that child. Optimism plays a big role and if it is unfortunate, like in this case, I still wouldn't blame those parents.
Murderers ? Fuck NO! If it were legal, and she was suffering beyond control (surgeries, losing senses, motor skills etc.) I wouldn't hesitate to end her life because you are closer to an unbalanced life for her than a balanced life. Fuck that, I would even contemplate ending my child's life and accepting the consequences. If not, i'd have the best oxycontin dealer going and she would not feel any pain for the rest of her life.
Tell your man I feel his pain & that he is the strongest of humans.
Thank you. And I agree with your analogy & think it's a good one, though no one ever seems to understand. Sometimes "life" isn't the best option for everyone.
If I had a child - or any other loved one - whose life was consumed by pain & suffering, I would end it for them if I could. If it is a person who is capable of making his/her own decision, I think it has to be up to him/her & we have an obligation - out of love - to respect that decision, regardless of whether or not we agree. If it's a person who's not capable of making the decision or a living organism that is not yet a person, then the difficult decision of whether or not to allow his/her life to continue falls to us, the loved ones & especially the guardian, and we have to do what we feel is best for the person or potential person. (There is no such thing as what's best for the fetus - which is not a person - only what's best for the person the fetus might become.)
Funny how people always want to talk about the guilt they say people feel when they have abortions, but they never want to talk about the guilt people feel when they don't.
Anyone who thinks the decision made by my boyfriend - or anyone else having to decide whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to pull the plug on her grandma - is an EASY decision, or a SELFISH one, or one NOT made out of love, or one that should be taken away from parents (or children/grandchildren) and automatically made by the STATE, thereby stripping parents of their rights to protect their own children in the way they think is best.... anyone who thinks these things about these people has NO IDEA about the complexities & difficulties of life, or about pure, unselfish love - and clearly they don't care. Those people, the ones who would condemn others who are faced with such difficult decisions, are the real horrible, selfish, loveless people... if you ask me.
Anyone who thinks the decision made by my boyfriend - or anyone else having to decide whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to pull the plug on her grandma - is an EASY decision, or a SELFISH one, or one NOT made out of love, or one that should be taken away from parents (or children/grandchildren) and automatically made by the STATE, thereby stripping parents of their rights to protect their own children in the way they think is best.... anyone who thinks these things about these people has NO IDEA about the complexities & difficulties of life, or about pure, unselfish love - and clearly they don't care. Those people, the ones who would condemn others who are faced with such difficult decisions, are the real horrible, selfish, loveless people... if you ask me.
It's not entirely murder because some of these cases are related to incest.
huh?!? :?
+1
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
Thank you. And I agree with your analogy & think it's a good one, though no one ever seems to understand. Sometimes "life" isn't the best option for everyone.
If I had a child - or any other loved one - whose life was consumed by pain & suffering, I would end it for them if I could. If it is a person who is capable of making his/her own decision, I think it has to be up to him/her & we have an obligation - out of love - to respect that decision, regardless of whether or not we agree. If it's a person who's not capable of making the decision or a living organism that is not yet a person, then the difficult decision of whether or not to allow his/her life to continue falls to us, the loved ones & especially the guardian, and we have to do what we feel is best for the person or potential person. (There is no such thing as what's best for the fetus - which is not a person - only what's best for the person the fetus might become.)
Funny how people always want to talk about the guilt they say people feel when they have abortions, but they never want to talk about the guilt people feel when they don't.
Anyone who thinks the decision made by my boyfriend - or anyone else having to decide whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to pull the plug on her grandma - is an EASY decision, or a SELFISH one, or one NOT made out of love, or one that should be taken away from parents (or children/grandchildren) and automatically made by the STATE, thereby stripping parents of their rights to protect their own children in the way they think is best.... anyone who thinks these things about these people has NO IDEA about the complexities & difficulties of life, or about pure, unselfish love - and clearly they don't care. Those people, the ones who would condemn others who are faced with such difficult decisions, are the real horrible, selfish, loveless people... if you ask me.
We can just agree to disagree. I simply happen to believe life is always the best option. No exceptions.
Last week I had the opportunity to listen to Sister Helen Prejean (Dead Man Walking) host a discussion about the death penalty. One of the things that really stuck out for me was the fact that on the death certificate for those who have been executed, the cause of death is listed as "homicide."
Rock me Jesus, roll me Lord...
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
Thank you. And I agree with your analogy & think it's a good one, though no one ever seems to understand. Sometimes "life" isn't the best option for everyone.
If I had a child - or any other loved one - whose life was consumed by pain & suffering, I would end it for them if I could. If it is a person who is capable of making his/her own decision, I think it has to be up to him/her & we have an obligation - out of love - to respect that decision, regardless of whether or not we agree. If it's a person who's not capable of making the decision or a living organism that is not yet a person, then the difficult decision of whether or not to allow his/her life to continue falls to us, the loved ones & especially the guardian, and we have to do what we feel is best for the person or potential person. (There is no such thing as what's best for the fetus - which is not a person - only what's best for the person the fetus might become.)
Funny how people always want to talk about the guilt they say people feel when they have abortions, but they never want to talk about the guilt people feel when they don't.
Anyone who thinks the decision made by my boyfriend - or anyone else having to decide whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to pull the plug on her grandma - is an EASY decision, or a SELFISH one, or one NOT made out of love, or one that should be taken away from parents (or children/grandchildren) and automatically made by the STATE, thereby stripping parents of their rights to protect their own children in the way they think is best.... anyone who thinks these things about these people has NO IDEA about the complexities & difficulties of life, or about pure, unselfish love - and clearly they don't care. Those people, the ones who would condemn others who are faced with such difficult decisions, are the real horrible, selfish, loveless people... if you ask me.
We can just agree to disagree. I simply happen to believe life is always the best option. No exceptions.
Cool. Are you for the death penalty?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
One of the things that really stuck out for me was the fact that on the death certificate for those who have been executed, the cause of death is listed as "homicide."
Homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being, so yeah the death penalty is in fact homicide. It's not that shocking in my opinion
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
geez my heart goes out to you
My daughter suffers from Cystic fibrosis somthing my wife and I both unknowingly gave her through our genes.
we like your partner never had any inkling that we carried the gene.
but I understand his pain , his guilt. I feel it everyday. And I know I didnt know and thus couldnt have prevented this. but still
BUt still
My heart reaches out to you both, no the three of you
The issue of abortion ?
I have had the snip, its a 1 in 4 chance that my next child could also get CF, 2 in 4 that they would carry on the disease.
if we had found out we are pregnant I would abort, but my sister reckons thats murder.
sure my child is beautiful, smart and lovely person. But the daily toll on her is awfull. the medication and care overwhelming for a 7 year old to take. I wont wish that on anyone
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
I'd like the OP to respond to this post if and when he gets back from his banning.
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
I'd like the OP to respond to this post if and when he gets back from his banning.
what can he really say? i think the points made by so many posters have been proven without a doubt. either he will grant that those of us that are pro-choice, for whatever reasons, have valid opinions and reasons for that position, or he can do like so many others and dismiss the situational factors and anecdotes and real life experiences shared here and still say that those who have had abortions are murderers. we do not exist in a vacuum and "pro-life at all costs" is the wrong position because there are no absolutes and there are shades of gray in all situations.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
We can just agree to disagree. I simply happen to believe life is always the best option. No exceptions.
So when a baby in the womb is discovered to have appalling deformities that will make it's life quality extremely low it's the best option to let it be born? Nobody should have the right to tell a woman she must have an unwanted baby.
This is an interesting development in TX.
Figures its Tx.
nothing like laying the guilt trip on before the potential mother makes one of the biggest decisions of her life.... this is manipulating the woman and stacking the deck against them in attempt to influence their decision instead of just "providing information". this should be illegal. but then again, it is texas, the same state where people held a rally in favor of seceding from the US just last week... :roll:
I was just telling an old friend about the guy I'm dating & realized it pertains to this subject.
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
I'd like the OP to respond to this post if and when he gets back from his banning.
Thats an extremely sad situation...
What are the stats on him passing that disease on again?
I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
what can he really say? i think the points made by so many posters have been proven without a doubt. either he will grant that those of us that are pro-choice, for whatever reasons, have valid opinions and reasons for that position, or he can do like so many others and dismiss the situational factors and anecdotes and real life experiences shared here and still say that those who have had abortions are murderers. we do not exist in a vacuum and "pro-life at all costs" is the wrong position because there are no absolutes and there are shades of gray in all situations.
I can acknowledge and understand the situational exceptions. I think either side that holds their position to the extreme is wrong. My point is that the embryo/fetus is a developing human being, so why is destroying it not considered murder.
what can he really say? i think the points made by so many posters have been proven without a doubt. either he will grant that those of us that are pro-choice, for whatever reasons, have valid opinions and reasons for that position, or he can do like so many others and dismiss the situational factors and anecdotes and real life experiences shared here and still say that those who have had abortions are murderers. we do not exist in a vacuum and "pro-life at all costs" is the wrong position because there are no absolutes and there are shades of gray in all situations.
I can acknowledge and understand the situational exceptions. I think either side that holds their position to the extreme is wrong. My point is that the embryo/fetus is a developing human being, so why is destroying it not considered murder.
If were talking legalese and technicalities, maybe it could be considered homicide, however justifiable in some cases, such as when the fetus/baby/embryo/developing human may be detrimental to the mother's health. I think there would be a self defense argument there.
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
what can he really say? i think the points made by so many posters have been proven without a doubt. either he will grant that those of us that are pro-choice, for whatever reasons, have valid opinions and reasons for that position, or he can do like so many others and dismiss the situational factors and anecdotes and real life experiences shared here and still say that those who have had abortions are murderers. we do not exist in a vacuum and "pro-life at all costs" is the wrong position because there are no absolutes and there are shades of gray in all situations.
I can acknowledge and understand the situational exceptions. I think either side that holds their position to the extreme is wrong. My point is that the embryo/fetus is a developing human being, so why is destroying it not considered murder.
it is because of these gray areas that you can not strip the freedom to choose from women. your question has been answered to the extent that i am going to answer it. you like freedom right? why would you want your government denying the freedom of choice to women??? isn't that the definition of "big government" that you conservatives go on and on and on about?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
what can he really say? i think the points made by so many posters have been proven without a doubt. either he will grant that those of us that are pro-choice, for whatever reasons, have valid opinions and reasons for that position, or he can do like so many others and dismiss the situational factors and anecdotes and real life experiences shared here and still say that those who have had abortions are murderers. we do not exist in a vacuum and "pro-life at all costs" is the wrong position because there are no absolutes and there are shades of gray in all situations.
I can acknowledge and understand the situational exceptions. I think either side that holds their position to the extreme is wrong. My point is that the embryo/fetus is a developing human being, so why is destroying it not considered murder.
it is because of these gray areas that you can not strip the freedom to choose from women. your question has been answered to the extent that i am going to answer it. you like freedom right? why would you want your government denying the freedom of choice to women??? isn't that the definition of "big government" that you conservatives go on and on and on about?
Your swapping one freedom for another...
With abortion your are deny that developing human life...
Your swapping one freedom for another...
With abortion your are deny that developing human life...
you are never going to change my mind. especially with that circular argument...
maybe it is true, most of the republican politicians care more about the fetus than those of us living outside of the womb, including the mother carrying that collection of cellular material. you can not claim to be for freedom, small government and keeping government out of your daily life if you support making abortion illegal. that goes against the foundation and the definition of he word...
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
I can't even take this seriously. I tried to show you the ridiculousness of your Nazi comparison, but you continue the embarrassment.
Sorry to repeat myself :oops:
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
This guy has a 6-year-old daughter from his previous marriage, and he loves her more than anything in the world. When she was three, she started having severe neurological problems & was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease that has caused her to have multiple "brain tumors," which grow, multiply, and bleed. She has spent many, many months in the hospital & had multiple brain surgeries. Due to the tumors & surgeries, she is now wheelchair bound, cross-eyed, & tube fed. She has uncontrollable seizures, which have gotten so bad that the docs recently said they think it's best to operate again - but the surgery will severely affect her speech. He & his ex-wife now have to decide whether to take away the ability to speak from a little girl who has already lost her ability to walk, see (well), and eat, or leave her with increasingly frequent, out-of-control siezures & the knowledge that a severe brain hemorrhage is likely on the horizon.
And here's the thing: She got this condition from him. Until she became symptomatic & they started running tests, he had no idea he had this illness & had never even heard of it. Now he watches the person he loves most in the world suffer every day with the knowledge that it's his "fault". He can't do anything to take it back & make his little girl better. All he can do is ensure that he never passes this on to another innocent child.
We use multiple forms of birth control, and he plans to get a vasectomy some day when he can afford it. (His job doesn't offer health insurance & all his money goes to his daughter.) Of course, even vasectomies aren't 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So he's told me that, in the unlikely event that I got pregnant, he would want me to have an abortion - so no other child of his will (possibly) have to suffer like his daughter does.
Does that make him a horrible person? A person whose decision is a selfish one, not based on love? Would that make us murderers?
To answer your question, no it does not make him a bad person. An abortion doesn't make anyone a bad person regardless of the reason. You know, that he has to put his guilt aside because it wasn't his fault. He didn't knowingly know, right ? I can imagine how difficult it is though not to take blame. Some people still go ahead with pregnancies that show signs of further complications when the chid is born for that child. Optimism plays a big role and if it is unfortunate, like in this case, I still wouldn't blame those parents.
Murderers ? Fuck NO! If it were legal, and she was suffering beyond control (surgeries, losing senses, motor skills etc.) I wouldn't hesitate to end her life because you are closer to an unbalanced life for her than a balanced life. Fuck that, I would even contemplate ending my child's life and accepting the consequences. If not, i'd have the best oxycontin dealer going and she would not feel any pain for the rest of her life.
Tell your man I feel his pain & that he is the strongest of humans.
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Thank you. And I agree with your analogy & think it's a good one, though no one ever seems to understand. Sometimes "life" isn't the best option for everyone.
If I had a child - or any other loved one - whose life was consumed by pain & suffering, I would end it for them if I could. If it is a person who is capable of making his/her own decision, I think it has to be up to him/her & we have an obligation - out of love - to respect that decision, regardless of whether or not we agree. If it's a person who's not capable of making the decision or a living organism that is not yet a person, then the difficult decision of whether or not to allow his/her life to continue falls to us, the loved ones & especially the guardian, and we have to do what we feel is best for the person or potential person. (There is no such thing as what's best for the fetus - which is not a person - only what's best for the person the fetus might become.)
Funny how people always want to talk about the guilt they say people feel when they have abortions, but they never want to talk about the guilt people feel when they don't.
Anyone who thinks the decision made by my boyfriend - or anyone else having to decide whether or not to have an abortion, or whether or not to pull the plug on her grandma - is an EASY decision, or a SELFISH one, or one NOT made out of love, or one that should be taken away from parents (or children/grandchildren) and automatically made by the STATE, thereby stripping parents of their rights to protect their own children in the way they think is best.... anyone who thinks these things about these people has NO IDEA about the complexities & difficulties of life, or about pure, unselfish love - and clearly they don't care. Those people, the ones who would condemn others who are faced with such difficult decisions, are the real horrible, selfish, loveless people... if you ask me.
huh?!? :?
+1
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
....but its clearer logic than some people have posted.
We can just agree to disagree. I simply happen to believe life is always the best option. No exceptions.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
Cool. Are you for the death penalty?
"With our thoughts we make the world"
I totally agree. It is okay to kill babies so long as their dad is an asshole OR their parents are freaks.
Homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being, so yeah the death penalty is in fact homicide. It's not that shocking in my opinion
My daughter suffers from Cystic fibrosis somthing my wife and I both unknowingly gave her through our genes.
we like your partner never had any inkling that we carried the gene.
but I understand his pain , his guilt. I feel it everyday. And I know I didnt know and thus couldnt have prevented this. but still
BUt still
My heart reaches out to you both, no the three of you
The issue of abortion ?
I have had the snip, its a 1 in 4 chance that my next child could also get CF, 2 in 4 that they would carry on the disease.
if we had found out we are pregnant I would abort, but my sister reckons thats murder.
sure my child is beautiful, smart and lovely person. But the daily toll on her is awfull. the medication and care overwhelming for a 7 year old to take. I wont wish that on anyone
Best of luck
I'd like the OP to respond to this post if and when he gets back from his banning.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
This is an interesting development in TX.
Figures its Tx.
Why do you feel the need to lie on a message board???
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/pol ... 58701.html
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
What are the stats on him passing that disease on again?
I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
If were talking legalese and technicalities, maybe it could be considered homicide, however justifiable in some cases, such as when the fetus/baby/embryo/developing human may be detrimental to the mother's health. I think there would be a self defense argument there.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
With abortion your are deny that developing human life...
maybe it is true, most of the republican politicians care more about the fetus than those of us living outside of the womb, including the mother carrying that collection of cellular material. you can not claim to be for freedom, small government and keeping government out of your daily life if you support making abortion illegal. that goes against the foundation and the definition of he word...
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."