We all have our own opinions about what the moral status of the fetus might be. Some people believe a fertilized egg is a full human being with an absolute right to life that supercedes any right of the woman. Others believe that a fetus attains moral value only after it becomes viable, or upon birth. But that's all these beliefs are - opinions. There's no way to decide between them, because they're entirely subjective and emotional. Therefore, the only opinion that counts is that of the pregnant woman. The status of her fetus and any moral value accorded to it is entirely her call. A fetus becomes a human being when the woman carrying it decides it does.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
how about you research it and report back to us. i am not repeating myself and my positions on this topic. you have not answered any questions i have posed to you.
so i ask you again. what effect on you personally would it have if my girlfriend had an abortion?
and also. you never replied to the post that byrnzie asked for your opinion on that brought you back into this thread........
Just because it does not have an effect on me does not mean that its right. What effect on you personally would it have if I smoked with my kids in the car with the windows up??? Since it does not effect you, I am sure you think its perfectly fine, right???
I did reply to the post.
Its a sad situation, one I hopefully would never have to go through. That is one of those situational areas where Its up to the parents. Its not fair to have a child into this world who would not be able to survive on its own due to health reasons.But lets not act like thats the majority of the reasons people are getting abortions.
and no i am not basing my decision on appearance. i am basing my decision on the developmental stage of the embryo, my state of mind at the time and my ability to look after a child i gave birth to. oh sure i guess i could go to term and just give up my child :roll: ... no i couldnt.
an abortion at 6 weeks would be less traumatic for me. yes thats right.. ME. and yes i said LESS traumatic cause do not think for a second this decision is an easy one for a woman to make.
Same reason people justify their decisions on developmental stages. 9 months is still a dvelopmental stage right?
i consider a 9 month old foetus to be, not so much a developmental stage, but the endgame. it can not develop anymore than it already has. all it can do is put on weight(though not always) while waiting to be born.
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I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
I didn't know women were FORCED to get pregnant??? When did this happen?
......... :shock:
nope, couldn't think of one situation where a woman might be forced to get pregnant.
not one.
nope.
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
I didn't know women were FORCED to get pregnant??? When did this happen?
......... :shock:
nope, couldn't think of one situation where a woman might be forced to get pregnant.
not one.
nope.
thats cause no one said they were.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and no i am not basing my decision on appearance. i am basing my decision on the developmental stage of the embryo, my state of mind at the time and my ability to look after a child i gave birth to. oh sure i guess i could go to term and just give up my child :roll: ... no i couldnt.
an abortion at 6 weeks would be less traumatic for me. yes thats right.. ME. and yes i said LESS traumatic cause do not think for a second this decision is an easy one for a woman to make.
Same reason people justify their decisions on developmental stages. 9 months is still a dvelopmental stage right?
i consider a 9 month old foetus to be, not so much a developmental stage, but the endgame. it can not develop anymore than it already has. all it can do is put on weight(though not always) while waiting to be born.
It is continually developing in utero until the day it comes out.
how about you research it and report back to us. i am not repeating myself and my positions on this topic. you have not answered any questions i have posed to you.
so i ask you again. what effect on you personally would it have if my girlfriend had an abortion?
and also. you never replied to the post that byrnzie asked for your opinion on that brought you back into this thread........
Just because it does not have an effect on me does not mean that its right. What effect on you personally would it have if I smoked with my kids in the car with the windows up??? Since it does not effect you, I am sure you think its perfectly fine, right???
I did reply to the post.
Its a sad situation, one I hopefully would never have to go through. That is one of those situational areas where Its up to the parents. Its not fair to have a child into this world who would not be able to survive on its own due to health reasons.But lets not act like thats the majority of the reasons people are getting abortions.
and let's not act like the majority of abortions are performed as a convenient from of birth control that a woman can choose to utilize every other month or so....
i dont care what you do with your kids. they are your kids and i couldn't care less what you do with them. it does not effect me so i can't be bothered by it. i am not going to call you a murderer for them getting cancer due to your second hand smoke. i do not even see how your example is relevent to the topic at hand.
my example of granting women the vote and taking it away is more akin to giving them the right to choose and then taking it away.
well by your rationale, if you want to avoid the situation, nobody is forcing anybody to shag their wife now are they? people choose when and where to do that, so maybe they should choose abstinence instead? give me a break...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i consider a 9 month old foetus to be, not so much a developmental stage, but the endgame. it can not develop anymore than it already has. all it can do is put on weight(though not always) while waiting to be born.
It is continually developing in utero until the day it comes out.
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and let's not act like the majority of abortions are performed as a convenient from of birth control that a woman can choose to utilize every other month or so....
i dont care what you do with your kids. they are your kids and i couldn't care less what you do with them. it does not effect me so i can't be bothered by it. i am not going to call you a murderer for them getting cancer due to your second hand smoke. i do not even see how your example is relevent to the topic at hand.
my example of granting women the vote and taking it away is more akin to giving them the right to choose and then taking it away.
well by your rationale, if you want to avoid the situation, nobody is forcing anybody to shag their wife now are they? people choose when and where to do that, so maybe they should choose abstinence instead? give me a break...
Dude seriously how old are you, I managed to have sex all the time in high school and college without getting a girl pregnant and when I was ready to have kids I did. Its called being responsible, I know, I know, liberals hate personal responsibility...
My example was completely relevent, Just because something doesn't effect me personally does not mean its right/correct thing to do.
Well by your rationale, if you want to have a 100% sucessful birth control method they only way is to have an abortion.
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
Fully developed??? how so, is a baby a fully developed human being?
I am pretty sure the brain is developing the whole time while in utero, along with other organs, not just weight. They don't just stop developing and wait to come out. Sometimes the womans body is not ready when the baby is ready.
I don't see how you can deem a in utero 9 month old human rights and not a 9 day old embryo? I can see the grey area in the situational, but I can't see it in development.
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
Fully developed??? how so, is a baby a fully developed human being?
I am pretty sure the brain is developing the whole time while in utero, along with other organs, not just weight. They don't just stop developing and wait to come out. Sometimes the womans body is not ready when the baby is ready.
I don't see how you can deem a in utero 9 month old human rights and not a 9 day old embryo? I can see the grey area in the situational, but I can't see it in development.
Is an 8 year old the same as a 35 year old? And if so, do they have all the rights the 35 year old has?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
Fully developed??? how so, is a baby a fully developed human being?
I am pretty sure the brain is developing the whole time while in utero, along with other organs, not just weight. They don't just stop developing and wait to come out. Sometimes the womans body is not ready when the baby is ready.
I don't see how you can deem a in utero 9 month old human rights and not a 9 day old embryo? I can see the grey area in the situational, but I can't see it in development.
Is an 8 year old the same as a 35 year old? And if so, do they have all the rights the 35 year old has?
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
Fully developed??? how so, is a baby a fully developed human being?
I am pretty sure the brain is developing the whole time while in utero, along with other organs, not just weight. They don't just stop developing and wait to come out. Sometimes the womans body is not ready when the baby is ready.
I don't see how you can deem a in utero 9 month old human rights and not a 9 day old embryo? I can see the grey area in the situational, but I can't see it in development.
where did i say a 9 month in utero foetus has rights?
at 9 months gestation its fully developed as an in utero foetus. in fact even at 37 weeks the foetus is considered fully developed and able to survive outside the womb and not be considered premature.
what do you mean by the womans body not being ready?
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take a good look
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also why is it deemed bad when I want to be an individual and not pay into a social system that rewards laziness, why are my personal freedoms taken away, why is my hard earned money taken away to provide for people who are unable to take care of them selves ( and continue to pay for their kids who they can't afford). You will probably answer with "for the "greater good" or whatever your liberal/socialist rhetoric is. But yet you are all for the individual in terms of abortion and seem to ingnor the "Whats best for society is best for the individual" montra, why is that? I am pretty sure the abortion is not good part of society, why the double standard? Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
also why is it deemed bad when I want to be an individual and not pay into a social system that rewards laziness, why are my personal freedoms taken away, why is my hard earned money taken away to provide for people who are unable to take care of them selves ( and continue to pay for their kids who they can't afford). You will probably answer with "for the "greater good" or whatever your liberal/socialist rhetoric is. But yet you are all for the individual in terms of abortion and seem to ingnor the "Whats best for society is best for the individual" montra, why is that? I am pretty sure the abortion is not good part of society, why the double standard? Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
If you're sick of paying for others and their kids which they can't afford, you'd think you'd lean a little more towards pro choice...
And there are regulations on abortions... Is that what you are arguing? Because your OP is asking why it isn't considered murder... are there regulations on murders? (I mean in the same sense you think there should be regulations on abortions)
Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
You have a problem with your tax money being used to help people live, yet you have no problem with your taxes being spent on killing millions of people abroad. Interesting.
Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
You have a problem with your tax money being used to help people live, yet you have no problem with your taxes being spent on killing millions of people abroad. Interesting.
also why is it deemed bad when I want to be an individual and not pay into a social system that rewards laziness, why are my personal freedoms taken away, why is my hard earned money taken away to provide for people who are unable to take care of them selves ( and continue to pay for their kids who they can't afford). You will probably answer with "for the "greater good" or whatever your liberal/socialist rhetoric is. But yet you are all for the individual in terms of abortion and seem to ingnor the "Whats best for society is best for the individual" montra, why is that? I am pretty sure the abortion is not good part of society, why the double standard? Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
there are regulations on abortion. for fucks sakes man, again with your hatred of social programs, and why are you calling liberals socialists? not all of us are. that is like me calling all conservatives teabaggers, it is not the case....the bottom line is your posts and your words tell me that you are selfish, and i believe that you are misogyynistic based on your desire to take reproductive rights away from women and you look down on them for accidently getting pregnant.... you want it all, even when if has no impact on your daily life. you want to avoid paying into the system designed to help people, yet you are against them having the option of aborting the potential children that they can not afford. your position makes absolutely no sense. abortion has no affect on society as a whole. if your wife has an abortion it has absolutely zero affect on the rest of us on this board. it doesn't, so stop pretending that these women that have an abortion are aborting the next jesus christ. you want all women to carry these fetuses to term, yet you are against helping contribute to taking care of these kids once they are born...nope, no hypocracy in that logic :roll: ...
i pose this question to you. why isn't abortion considered murder legally, and why is it only considered murder by people who do not consider capital punishment murder? why is it considered murder when using drones that kill civillians is not considered murder?
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Dude seriously how old are you, I managed to have sex all the time in high school and college without getting a girl pregnant and when I was ready to have kids I did. Its called being responsible, I know, I know, liberals hate personal responsibility...
My example was completely relevent, Just because something doesn't effect me personally does not mean its right/correct thing to do.
Well by your rationale, if you want to have a 100% sucessful birth control method they only way is to have an abortion.
i'm 35, what does that matter???
well congratulations mr. personal responsibility. i had a lot of sex in high school and college and didn't knock anybody up either. i've been in bands for the last decade with the same outcome, no pregnancy....what do you want, a pat on the back or something? you are not the only one who managed to have sex without making a baby...neither did the majority of people. the ones that got pregnant in high school and college did so BY ACCIDENT, not by choice. the ones i knew used condoms and some of the women were on the pill. i know you are gonna say "they should have done more", but really, what are they supposed to do? pregnancy happens sometimes.
and again why are you accusing liberals of "hating personal responsibility"? with statements like that you question MY age? come on man, you know better than that. at least i would hope you did...
by whose standards are you basing right and wrong in this case? abortion remains legal, so you have no legal grounds or precedent to stand on.....
and no i am not saying that the only way to have "100% successful birth control is to have an abortion." where did i ever say that??? i would never say something so asenine, so maybe you should stop putting words in people's mouths...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
also why is it deemed bad when I want to be an individual and not pay into a social system that rewards laziness, why are my personal freedoms taken away, why is my hard earned money taken away to provide for people who are unable to take care of them selves ( and continue to pay for their kids who they can't afford). You will probably answer with "for the "greater good" or whatever your liberal/socialist rhetoric is. But yet you are all for the individual in terms of abortion and seem to ingnor the "Whats best for society is best for the individual" montra, why is that? I am pretty sure the abortion is not good part of society, why the double standard? Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
If you're sick of paying for others and their kids which they can't afford, you'd think you'd lean a little more towards pro choice...
And there are regulations on abortions... Is that what you are arguing? Because your OP is asking why it isn't considered murder... are there regulations on murders? (I mean in the same sense you think there should be regulations on abortions)
Its sick that its accepted around here to have children when you can't afford to feed/shelter/cloth, yourself.
There are many people out there who would gladly adopt/foster. Even programs can be set up to do so.
I'd much rather pay for the guy down the street that's down on his luck than for a bomb that makes some guy in Iraq or Afghanistan down on HIS luck. Wouldn't you?
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
also why is it deemed bad when I want to be an individual and not pay into a social system that rewards laziness, why are my personal freedoms taken away, why is my hard earned money taken away to provide for people who are unable to take care of them selves ( and continue to pay for their kids who they can't afford). You will probably answer with "for the "greater good" or whatever your liberal/socialist rhetoric is. But yet you are all for the individual in terms of abortion and seem to ingnor the "Whats best for society is best for the individual" montra, why is that? I am pretty sure the abortion is not good part of society, why the double standard? Your trying to force me to pay for other peoples health care, yet jump up in arms when people think there should be regulations on abortions???
If you're sick of paying for others and their kids which they can't afford, you'd think you'd lean a little more towards pro choice...
And there are regulations on abortions... Is that what you are arguing? Because your OP is asking why it isn't considered murder... are there regulations on murders? (I mean in the same sense you think there should be regulations on abortions)
Its sick that its accepted around here to have children when you can't afford to feed/shelter/cloth, yourself.
There are many people out there who would gladly adopt/foster. Even programs can be set up to do so.
I'm having trouble understanding why this person's opinions & views are still being entertained
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i highly disagree with charging people who have abortions with murder. in that case there are a few people in this thread, good, upstanding members of society and good members of this forum, people that you know from reading their posts, people whose character you are familiar with, that in your opinion should be charged with murder.
Don't get all overly dramatic on me. I never said that. What I said was I would like to get to a place where we can make it illegal. This means having the education and other services available to #1 reduce unwanted pregnancies dramatically and then #2 have viable options rather than termination. Certainly #2 means a woman needs to carry the baby, and I understand that is quite contentious, but since I believe it is a baby I believe it deserves the right to life. I think men have to be held accountable for their actions far more than they are currently as well.
I know you would still disgree with my beliefs in the end, but I think we'd agree on all the stuff up to abortion becoming illegal. And abortion is currently considered legal, therefore no way would I say that someone having an abortion at this time should be charged with murder.
I'd much rather pay for the guy down the street that's down on his luck than for a bomb that makes some guy in Iraq or Afghanistan down on HIS luck. Wouldn't you?
Very much so.
Just to add so that it isnt a completely lopsided right/left or rep/dem argument..
I have been on the fence about abortion in the past. I dont like abortion, and i dont think i could ever be a part of making that decision. But I think it should always be the decision of the woman who is carrying the fetus.
The last time there was a thread in here about abortion, I learned a lot about trimesters and fetal development. (I know this is kinda grey area) But I like to think that the fetus is an extention of the womans body until it is able to live outside on its own. I think that was decided to be possible after like 4 months or something.. And I assume that is partly why there are regulations as to how late an abortion procedure can take place -- because it is still an extension of the womans body until a certain point. if it cannot live without her, it is up to her to decide what she does with her body.
Just to add so that it isnt a completely lopsided right/left or rep/dem argument..
I have been on the fence about abortion in the past. I dont like abortion, and i dont think i could ever be a part of making that decision. But I think it should always be the decision of the woman who is carrying the fetus.
The last time there was a thread in here about abortion, I learned a lot about trimesters and fetal development. (I know this is kinda grey area) But I like to think that the fetus is an extention of the womans body until it is able to live outside on its own. I think that was decided to be possible after like 4 months or something.. And I assume that is partly why there are regulations as to how late an abortion procedure can take place -- because it is still an extension of the womans body until a certain point. if it cannot live without her, it is up to her to decide what she does with her body.
So if we could develop an incubation system that allows the fetus/embryo to grow detached from the mother from the day she found out she was pregnant, would you be for or against abortion?
Just to add so that it isnt a completely lopsided right/left or rep/dem argument..
I have been on the fence about abortion in the past. I dont like abortion, and i dont think i could ever be a part of making that decision. But I think it should always be the decision of the woman who is carrying the fetus.
The last time there was a thread in here about abortion, I learned a lot about trimesters and fetal development. (I know this is kinda grey area) But I like to think that the fetus is an extention of the womans body until it is able to live outside on its own. I think that was decided to be possible after like 4 months or something.. And I assume that is partly why there are regulations as to how late an abortion procedure can take place -- because it is still an extension of the womans body until a certain point. if it cannot live without her, it is up to her to decide what she does with her body.
So if we could develop an incubation system that allows the fetus/embryo to grow detached from the mother from the day she found out she was pregnant, would you be for or against abortion?
Good question, but that would all depend on what would happen to the baby once it came to term. thats all speculation, as I havent heard of anything like that. If there are waiting lists for adoptive parents, I guess it would be good and i'd be happy to see it take place of abortion. The future of science is scary if you think about it that way.
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Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I did reply to the post.
Its a sad situation, one I hopefully would never have to go through. That is one of those situational areas where Its up to the parents. Its not fair to have a child into this world who would not be able to survive on its own due to health reasons.But lets not act like thats the majority of the reasons people are getting abortions.
i consider a 9 month old foetus to be, not so much a developmental stage, but the endgame. it can not develop anymore than it already has. all it can do is put on weight(though not always) while waiting to be born.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
nope, couldn't think of one situation where a woman might be forced to get pregnant.
not one.
nope.
thats cause no one said they were.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i dont care what you do with your kids. they are your kids and i couldn't care less what you do with them. it does not effect me so i can't be bothered by it. i am not going to call you a murderer for them getting cancer due to your second hand smoke. i do not even see how your example is relevent to the topic at hand.
my example of granting women the vote and taking it away is more akin to giving them the right to choose and then taking it away.
well by your rationale, if you want to avoid the situation, nobody is forcing anybody to shag their wife now are they? people choose when and where to do that, so maybe they should choose abstinence instead? give me a break...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
disagree. in regards to an in utero foetus i dont see just adding weight as developing. i see it as.. adding weight. for what they are at birth ... newborn babies.. they are fully developed.
at 9 months youre not waiting for it to develop anymore cause what comes next in the developmental stage comes ater birth.. youre just waiting til it decides its ready. its kinda like a roast i guess. there comes a point where that bird is cooked.. it just depends on when you take it out of the oven. with a 9 month in utero foetus/baby/ whatever you want to call it... it decides when its time.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
My example was completely relevent, Just because something doesn't effect me personally does not mean its right/correct thing to do.
Well by your rationale, if you want to have a 100% sucessful birth control method they only way is to have an abortion.
There are situations, when you think about it. A four letter word that starts with R...
I am pretty sure the brain is developing the whole time while in utero, along with other organs, not just weight. They don't just stop developing and wait to come out. Sometimes the womans body is not ready when the baby is ready.
I don't see how you can deem a in utero 9 month old human rights and not a 9 day old embryo? I can see the grey area in the situational, but I can't see it in development.
where did i say a 9 month in utero foetus has rights?
at 9 months gestation its fully developed as an in utero foetus. in fact even at 37 weeks the foetus is considered fully developed and able to survive outside the womb and not be considered premature.
what do you mean by the womans body not being ready?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And there are regulations on abortions... Is that what you are arguing? Because your OP is asking why it isn't considered murder... are there regulations on murders? (I mean in the same sense you think there should be regulations on abortions)
I dunno, maybe this:
You have a problem with your tax money being used to help people live, yet you have no problem with your taxes being spent on killing millions of people abroad. Interesting.
Interesting??
More like disgusting.
there are regulations on abortion. for fucks sakes man, again with your hatred of social programs, and why are you calling liberals socialists? not all of us are. that is like me calling all conservatives teabaggers, it is not the case....the bottom line is your posts and your words tell me that you are selfish, and i believe that you are misogyynistic based on your desire to take reproductive rights away from women and you look down on them for accidently getting pregnant.... you want it all, even when if has no impact on your daily life. you want to avoid paying into the system designed to help people, yet you are against them having the option of aborting the potential children that they can not afford. your position makes absolutely no sense. abortion has no affect on society as a whole. if your wife has an abortion it has absolutely zero affect on the rest of us on this board. it doesn't, so stop pretending that these women that have an abortion are aborting the next jesus christ. you want all women to carry these fetuses to term, yet you are against helping contribute to taking care of these kids once they are born...nope, no hypocracy in that logic :roll: ...
i pose this question to you. why isn't abortion considered murder legally, and why is it only considered murder by people who do not consider capital punishment murder? why is it considered murder when using drones that kill civillians is not considered murder?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
well congratulations mr. personal responsibility. i had a lot of sex in high school and college and didn't knock anybody up either. i've been in bands for the last decade with the same outcome, no pregnancy....what do you want, a pat on the back or something? you are not the only one who managed to have sex without making a baby...neither did the majority of people. the ones that got pregnant in high school and college did so BY ACCIDENT, not by choice. the ones i knew used condoms and some of the women were on the pill. i know you are gonna say "they should have done more", but really, what are they supposed to do? pregnancy happens sometimes.
and again why are you accusing liberals of "hating personal responsibility"? with statements like that you question MY age? come on man, you know better than that. at least i would hope you did...
by whose standards are you basing right and wrong in this case? abortion remains legal, so you have no legal grounds or precedent to stand on.....
and no i am not saying that the only way to have "100% successful birth control is to have an abortion." where did i ever say that??? i would never say something so asenine, so maybe you should stop putting words in people's mouths...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
again, why do you feel the need to lie on a message board?
There are many people out there who would gladly adopt/foster. Even programs can be set up to do so.
I'm having trouble understanding why this person's opinions & views are still being entertained
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Don't get all overly dramatic on me. I never said that. What I said was I would like to get to a place where we can make it illegal. This means having the education and other services available to #1 reduce unwanted pregnancies dramatically and then #2 have viable options rather than termination. Certainly #2 means a woman needs to carry the baby, and I understand that is quite contentious, but since I believe it is a baby I believe it deserves the right to life. I think men have to be held accountable for their actions far more than they are currently as well.
I know you would still disgree with my beliefs in the end, but I think we'd agree on all the stuff up to abortion becoming illegal. And abortion is currently considered legal, therefore no way would I say that someone having an abortion at this time should be charged with murder.
Very much so.
Just to add so that it isnt a completely lopsided right/left or rep/dem argument..
I have been on the fence about abortion in the past. I dont like abortion, and i dont think i could ever be a part of making that decision. But I think it should always be the decision of the woman who is carrying the fetus.
The last time there was a thread in here about abortion, I learned a lot about trimesters and fetal development. (I know this is kinda grey area) But I like to think that the fetus is an extention of the womans body until it is able to live outside on its own. I think that was decided to be possible after like 4 months or something.. And I assume that is partly why there are regulations as to how late an abortion procedure can take place -- because it is still an extension of the womans body until a certain point. if it cannot live without her, it is up to her to decide what she does with her body.
Good question, but that would all depend on what would happen to the baby once it came to term. thats all speculation, as I havent heard of anything like that. If there are waiting lists for adoptive parents, I guess it would be good and i'd be happy to see it take place of abortion. The future of science is scary if you think about it that way.