Your swapping one freedom for another...
With abortion your are deny that developing human life...
you are never going to change my mind. especially with that circular argument...
maybe it is true, most of the republican politicians care more about the fetus than those of us living outside of the womb, including the mother carrying that collection of cellular material. you can not claim to be for freedom, small government and keeping government out of your daily life if you support making abortion illegal. that goes against the foundation and the definition of he word...
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Thats funny, why don't you check the stats on which party gives the most money to charities.
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Wouldn't hurt me if she off'd you either. Not a very good argument. :roll:
Well it would certainly hurt his family and his friends. Whereas with abortion it only hurts the mother and father who have to deal with their decision. So it may be a pretty damn good argument.
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Wouldn't hurt me if she off'd you either. Not a very good argument. :roll:
well you are stuck with me cincy. :wave:
care to add to the discussion or just throw insults?
what is wrong with the argument. heidijam has no vested interest in whether or not my girlfriend has a baby or not. it does not affect him or you or anyone else. it is none of his affair. or yours, or anybody else's....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Your swapping one freedom for another...
With abortion your are deny that developing human life...
you are never going to change my mind. especially with that circular argument...
maybe it is true, most of the republican politicians care more about the fetus than those of us living outside of the womb, including the mother carrying that collection of cellular material. you can not claim to be for freedom, small government and keeping government out of your daily life if you support making abortion illegal. that goes against the foundation and the definition of he word...
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Thats funny, why don't you check the stats on which party gives the most money to charities.
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
nice dodge.
answer my question.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Wouldn't hurt me if she off'd you either. Not a very good argument. :roll:
well you are stuck with me cincy. :wave:
care to add to the discussion or just throw insults?
what is wrong with the argument. heidijam has no vested interest in whether or not my girlfriend has a baby or not. it does not affect him or you or anyone else. it is none of his affair. or yours, or anybody else's....
Didn't think it was an insult at all.
My opinion is well documented. The point being is that while something may not affect us directly, it can affect the world we live in. There are lots of thing that you have no vested interest in personally, doesn't mean it is something that we as a society should accept.
is it hurting you in any way if my girlfriend were to have an abortion?
Wouldn't hurt me if she off'd you either. Not a very good argument. :roll:
Well it would certainly hurt his family and his friends. Whereas with abortion it only hurts the mother and father who have to deal with their decision. So it may be a pretty damn good argument.
Cincy, I thought you may have a reply to this? Are you not for Govt. staying out of our lives.
Cincy, I thought you may have a reply to this? Are you not for Govt. staying out of our lives.
I am. But not entirely. I want them to build roads, provide defense, etc. I also want them to help protect those that can't protect themselves.
But I sure wish they'd stop caring what people do in the personal lives when it truly effects no one else. In the case of abortion, I believe it does affect someone else.
Cincy, I thought you may have a reply to this? Are you not for Govt. staying out of our lives.
I am. But not entirely. I want them to build roads, provide defense, etc. I also want them to help protect those that can't protect themselves.
But I sure wish they'd stop caring what people do in the personal lives when it truly effects no one else. In the case of abortion, I believe it does affect someone else.
Fair enough, I think it only effects those involved. That being the mother and father.
That being said, I sure am glad that my own mother chose to give birth to me. She was quite young, unmarried, lived in a small town, and I'm sure she weighed the decision heavily. But I'm also glad she had a choice.
The fewer abortions the better. I know we can all agree on that. But there are way too many mitigating circumstances to make it illegal. And making it illegal as we all know, can be very destructive in it's own ways. (back alley abortions and such)
Are you for making abortions illegal? What should be the punishment?
Cincy, I thought you may have a reply to this? Are you not for Govt. staying out of our lives.
I am. But not entirely. I want them to build roads, provide defense, etc. I also want them to help protect those that can't protect themselves.
But I sure wish they'd stop caring what people do in the personal lives when it truly effects no one else. In the case of abortion, I believe it does affect someone else.
Fair enough, I think it only effects those involved. That being the mother and father.
That being said, I sure am glad that my own mother chose to give birth to me. She was quite young, unmarried, lived in a small town, and I'm sure she weighed the decision heavily. But I'm also glad she had a choice.
The fewer abortions the better. I know we can all agree on that. But there are way too many mitigating circumstances to make it illegal. And making it illegal as we all know, can be very destructive in it's own ways. (back alley abortions and such)
Are you for making abortions illegal? What should be the punishment?
Not overnight. It's too much a part of our society to just make it illegal and think everything will be ok. But I think we should work towards making it illegal and charging people with murder. Would be an expensive and long plan to get there (maybe never get to that point) but I think we'd benefit greatly as a society.
Well Cincy, I'll just have to disagree with you and hope things never move in your direction regarding abortion.
I think there are much greater problems in this world effecting our society than wether or not people are having abortions. I'll leave it at that. This discussion could go on forever. And we both know that we can't change anyones minds. But it's still nice to have a civil discussion concerning such a passionate issue sometimes.
Well Cincy, I'll just have to disagree with you and hope things never move in your direction regarding abortion.
I think there are much greater problems in this world effecting our society than wether or not people are having abortions. I'll leave it at that. This discussion could go on forever. And we both know that we can't change anyones minds. But it's still nice to have a civil discussion concerning such a passionate issue sometimes.
Yep, I don't expect to change people's minds on this issue anymore. And I certainly have come a long way in respecting the alternate opinion. It can go on forever.
Although I will say, I think you'd like the majority of what I think needs to happen (it's all about limiting the need for abortions). You probably just don't like the end. And to be honest, I'd be happy just to get further down the road.
Not overnight. It's too much a part of our society to just make it illegal and think everything will be ok. But I think we should work towards making it illegal and charging people with murder. Would be an expensive and long plan to get there (maybe never get to that point) but I think we'd benefit greatly as a society.
am i missing something? i do not get your assertion that making mothers bear unplanned, or unwanted, or severely handicapped babies benefits society. we can not even feed the people we have already. and when kids are born with deformities and handicaps and severe mental retardation it is your tax dollars that pays for them in the form of medicare.
i highly disagree with charging people who have abortions with murder. in that case there are a few people in this thread, good, upstanding members of society and good members of this forum, people that you know from reading their posts, people whose character you are familiar with, that in your opinion should be charged with murder. i can not go for that. those people made decisions that they have to live with the rest of their lives. it is nobody's responsiblilty to sit in judgement of what they have done or the choice that they made. i do not feel that charging them with a crime over a medical procedure is the way we need to be going in this country. what is next, a pregnant woman falls down and the fetus dies are you going to charge the mom with gross negligence or manslaughter?
the precedent has been established. women have the right to choose. it is settled law. i don't like abortion any more than you do, but i love the fact that women are free enough to decide for themselves and that nobody can stand in their way or force them to do something that they do not want to do. not to mention the health issues associated with high risk pregnancies. what you are suggesting is like giving women the right to vote then taking it away. once you grant a right, you can not take it away.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Thats funny, why don't you check the stats on which party gives the most money to charities.
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
the embryo has no choice because it cant make one. it doesnt have the capacity to make a choice. i as the person carrying the developing cells can make that choice and so i will. its MY choice, no one elses. in utero beings have no rights and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted, they shouldnt. the law protects me... which is as it should be.
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I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
I didn't know women were FORCED to get pregnant??? When did this happen?
Thats funny, why don't you check the stats on which party gives the most money to charities.
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
the embryo has no choice because it cant make one. it doesnt have the capacity to make a choice. i as the person carrying the developing cells can make that choice and so i will. its MY choice, no one elses. in utero beings have no rights and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted, they shouldnt. the law protects me... which is as it should be.
Quick question, why do they not have rights, is it because they are dependant on someone else to live???
Your first sentence also described a day old baby. An in utero being is still a developing human being, where do you draw the line when its given rights as a human? So your perfectly fine with 9 month abortions then???
Because its still an in utero being right?
I do unsterstand that there are grey areas. But lets not act as if this example is the reason that ALL people are getting abortions.
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
I didn't know women were FORCED to get pregnant??? When did this happen?
who said they were?
im talking about forcing then to continue with an unwanted pregnancy... where the result is either motherhood or a full term pregnancy... which is what you do when you take away abortion as a choice.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Thats funny, why don't you check the stats on which party gives the most money to charities.
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
the embryo has no choice because it cant make one. it doesnt have the capacity to make a choice. i as the person carrying the developing cells can make that choice and so i will. its MY choice, no one elses. in utero beings have no rights and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted, they shouldnt. the law protects me... which is as it should be.
Quick question, why do they not have rights, is it because they are dependant on someone else to live???
Your first sentence also described a day old baby. An in utero being is still a developing human being, where do you draw the line when its given rights as a human? So your perfectly fine with 9 month abortions then???
Because its still an in utero being right?
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
I'd base it on a pragmatic standpoint. Be kind of like quitting a marathon 25.5 miles in instead of at the 3 mile mark.
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why would anyone abort at 9 months?
and no i am not basing my decision on appearance. i am basing my decision on the developmental stage of the embryo, my state of mind at the time and my ability to look after a child i gave birth to. oh sure i guess i could go to term and just give up my child :roll: ... no i couldnt.
an abortion at 6 weeks would be less traumatic for me. yes thats right.. ME. and yes i said LESS traumatic cause do not think for a second this decision is an easy one for a woman to make.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
Haha, I do see the "situations" as gray areas.
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
Haha, I do see the "situations" as gray areas.
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why would anyone abort at 9 months?
and no i am not basing my decision on appearance. i am basing my decision on the developmental stage of the embryo, my state of mind at the time and my ability to look after a child i gave birth to. oh sure i guess i could go to term and just give up my child :roll: ... no i couldnt.
an abortion at 6 weeks would be less traumatic for me. yes thats right.. ME. and yes i said LESS traumatic cause do not think for a second this decision is an easy one for a woman to make.
Same reason people justify their decisions on developmental stages. 9 months is still a dvelopmental stage right?
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
Haha, I do see the "situations" as gray areas.
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
Why would you abort at 6 weeks yet not at 9 months? Are you basing this decision on physical apperance?
How very primal of you.
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
Haha, I do see the "situations" as gray areas.
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
how about you research it and report back to us. i am not repeating myself and my positions on this topic. you have not answered any questions i have posed to you.
so i ask you again. what effect on you personally would it have if my girlfriend had an abortion?
and also. you never replied to the post that byrnzie asked for your opinion on that brought you back into this thread........
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
why do you think pregnancy is divided into trimesters? because a 6 week old embryo is very very different from a 9 month old fetus....
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
Haha, I do see the "situations" as gray areas.
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
Comments
You can not claim to be for choice if you are denying the baby the right to live...
Wouldn't hurt me if she off'd you either. Not a very good argument. :roll:
Well it would certainly hurt his family and his friends. Whereas with abortion it only hurts the mother and father who have to deal with their decision. So it may be a pretty damn good argument.
care to add to the discussion or just throw insults?
what is wrong with the argument. heidijam has no vested interest in whether or not my girlfriend has a baby or not. it does not affect him or you or anyone else. it is none of his affair. or yours, or anybody else's....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
answer my question.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Didn't think it was an insult at all.
My opinion is well documented. The point being is that while something may not affect us directly, it can affect the world we live in. There are lots of thing that you have no vested interest in personally, doesn't mean it is something that we as a society should accept.
Cincy, I thought you may have a reply to this? Are you not for Govt. staying out of our lives.
I am. But not entirely. I want them to build roads, provide defense, etc. I also want them to help protect those that can't protect themselves.
But I sure wish they'd stop caring what people do in the personal lives when it truly effects no one else. In the case of abortion, I believe it does affect someone else.
Fair enough, I think it only effects those involved. That being the mother and father.
That being said, I sure am glad that my own mother chose to give birth to me. She was quite young, unmarried, lived in a small town, and I'm sure she weighed the decision heavily. But I'm also glad she had a choice.
The fewer abortions the better. I know we can all agree on that. But there are way too many mitigating circumstances to make it illegal. And making it illegal as we all know, can be very destructive in it's own ways. (back alley abortions and such)
Are you for making abortions illegal? What should be the punishment?
Not overnight. It's too much a part of our society to just make it illegal and think everything will be ok. But I think we should work towards making it illegal and charging people with murder. Would be an expensive and long plan to get there (maybe never get to that point) but I think we'd benefit greatly as a society.
I think there are much greater problems in this world effecting our society than wether or not people are having abortions. I'll leave it at that. This discussion could go on forever. And we both know that we can't change anyones minds. But it's still nice to have a civil discussion concerning such a passionate issue sometimes.
Yep, I don't expect to change people's minds on this issue anymore. And I certainly have come a long way in respecting the alternate opinion. It can go on forever.
Although I will say, I think you'd like the majority of what I think needs to happen (it's all about limiting the need for abortions). You probably just don't like the end. And to be honest, I'd be happy just to get further down the road.
i highly disagree with charging people who have abortions with murder. in that case there are a few people in this thread, good, upstanding members of society and good members of this forum, people that you know from reading their posts, people whose character you are familiar with, that in your opinion should be charged with murder. i can not go for that. those people made decisions that they have to live with the rest of their lives. it is nobody's responsiblilty to sit in judgement of what they have done or the choice that they made. i do not feel that charging them with a crime over a medical procedure is the way we need to be going in this country. what is next, a pregnant woman falls down and the fetus dies are you going to charge the mom with gross negligence or manslaughter?
the precedent has been established. women have the right to choose. it is settled law. i don't like abortion any more than you do, but i love the fact that women are free enough to decide for themselves and that nobody can stand in their way or force them to do something that they do not want to do. not to mention the health issues associated with high risk pregnancies. what you are suggesting is like giving women the right to vote then taking it away. once you grant a right, you can not take it away.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
the embryo has no choice because it cant make one. it doesnt have the capacity to make a choice. i as the person carrying the developing cells can make that choice and so i will. its MY choice, no one elses. in utero beings have no rights and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted, they shouldnt. the law protects me... which is as it should be.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
people? PEOPLE dont get abortions.. WOMEN get abortions. lets be very clear on that point.
what does it matter what the reason is for getting an abortion? whose business is it? do i like that abortion not be used as a form of birth control? sure... maybe... but its not my place to force motherhood or full term preganancies on any woman.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Your first sentence also described a day old baby. An in utero being is still a developing human being, where do you draw the line when its given rights as a human? So your perfectly fine with 9 month abortions then???
Because its still an in utero being right?
who said they were?
im talking about forcing then to continue with an unwanted pregnancy... where the result is either motherhood or a full term pregnancy... which is what you do when you take away abortion as a choice.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
they have no rights cause thats the law. my sovereignty over my own body can not be trepassed against.
and where did i say im fine with 9 month gestation abortions?
i see you chose to address the part where i said in utero beings have no rights and dismissed the part following where i said and at the stage of development most embryos are aborted they shouldnt.
would i abort a 9 month old foetus? no i wouldnt. would i abort a 6 week old embryo??? maybe.. maybe not.. but at least id have that choice.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
+2
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How very primal of you.
i think the unwillingness to see any gray in any of these situations suggests very poor, primative reasoning skills, which in actuality is very primal.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
why would anyone abort at 9 months?
and no i am not basing my decision on appearance. i am basing my decision on the developmental stage of the embryo, my state of mind at the time and my ability to look after a child i gave birth to. oh sure i guess i could go to term and just give up my child :roll: ... no i couldnt.
an abortion at 6 weeks would be less traumatic for me. yes thats right.. ME. and yes i said LESS traumatic cause do not think for a second this decision is an easy one for a woman to make.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
But I am not sure I see the gray areas in terms of a developing human beings... You are either killing a human being or your not... Which is it?
not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
so i ask you again. what effect on you personally would it have if my girlfriend had an abortion?
and also. you never replied to the post that byrnzie asked for your opinion on that brought you back into this thread........
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."