Why isn't abortion considered murder?
Comments
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Heidi...please, calm down. You seem to have so much anger within you. Here's a song to make you relax.
My favorite part starts at 2.35. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYg5VrIlmn0How I choose to feel is how I am0 -
Glasgow, Scotland. It's cold outside. I'm thinking about a problem. One group of people trying to force their beliefs on others, based on religion. And it seems as though we're regressing.
Above, a helicopter flies by. If it continues on its course, it will shortly be over Ireland, where as of this writing, the powers that be are deciding if a 14-year-old girl who was raped by the father of one of her friends should be allowed to leave for Britain to obtain an abortion. She's been ordered not to leave the country for nine months. Fourteen years old. Raped. The issue of an unborn fetus takes on more importance than the fact that the rapist walks free.
Extreme, but this is a place where the church influences the government. And when I think of the movements concerning abortion in the United States, it definitely seems as though we're regressing.
"My body's nobody's body but mine...
You run your own body, let me run mine."
At the University of San Diego a few years ago, pro-lifers gathered, while pro-choicers chanted the above. Sides clashed and tension ran high. A banner equating pro-choice ideology with Nazism and Hitler was displayed. "Baby Killers," a little red stop sign said -- a sign held by a well-dressed 3-year-old who sat atop the shoulders of his upper-middle class father. The kid looked confused and frightened. The ominous presence of armed police on horseback would be enough to upset anyone.
And I wondered how this child got pulled into this? I wondered how any of us got pulled into this. The fact is that those people handing down decisions on the abortion issue are not the ones who will have to live or die by it.
Ten years old. That's the age my child would have been. And I would not be here in Glasgow. I wouldn't be in this band or traveling. And I wouldn't have seen the liberal ways in which other countries we have visited deal with this issue. I wouldn't have been asked to write this piece. The fact that I've been through it on all levels is the only reason I accepted.
Perhaps I'll have a child in the future, when I can provide properly. Who knows. But as individuals in this "free" country, we must have the right to choose when that time is right. A couple -- perhaps 15 or 16 years old, maybe 10 years older -- is faced with an unwanted pregnancy; it makes no difference if there is no means of support. They're questioning whether they can provide a proper climate in which to raise a child. A healthy question for both them and society itself. Yeah, there are programs to assist. Welfare and health programs that are constant victims of cutbacks. The child can sit in severely overcrowded classrooms and be taught by underpaid teachers.
A right to a healthy future should be the consideration.
Operation Rescue? The point being the rescue of a nonentity, a zygote. Perhaps the rescue of a young woman in crisis would be more in order. Instead, combat lines are drawn at clinics, and women must be escorted through trenches, which only adds to their trauma. This is not a game. This is not a religious pep rally. This is a woman's future. Roe vs. Wade was decided 19 years ago and the fact that a well-organized group has come close to overturning it is raw proof that we do live in a democracy. But also the reason that any opposition must be equally as vocal. You go to school in Normal, Illinois? Collegetown, U.S.A.? Shout it out. There are people wary of the strength that young voters possess. Prove them right. Decide on the issues and vote -- male or female -- for this is not just a women's issue. It's human rights. If it were a man's body and it was his destiny we were deciding there would be no issue. Not in today's male dominated society.
-ev
http://www.freewebs.com/pearljamstudy/9 ... lamati.htm0 -
_ wrote:Glasgow, Scotland. It's cold outside. I'm thinking about a problem. One group of people trying to force their beliefs on others, based on religion. And it seems as though we're regressing.
Above, a helicopter flies by. If it continues on its course, it will shortly be over Ireland, where as of this writing, the powers that be are deciding if a 14-year-old girl who was raped by the father of one of her friends should be allowed to leave for Britain to obtain an abortion. She's been ordered not to leave the country for nine months. Fourteen years old. Raped. The issue of an unborn fetus takes on more importance than the fact that the rapist walks free.
Extreme, but this is a place where the church influences the government. And when I think of the movements concerning abortion in the United States, it definitely seems as though we're regressing.
"My body's nobody's body but mine...
You run your own body, let me run mine."
At the University of San Diego a few years ago, pro-lifers gathered, while pro-choicers chanted the above. Sides clashed and tension ran high. A banner equating pro-choice ideology with Nazism and Hitler was displayed. "Baby Killers," a little red stop sign said -- a sign held by a well-dressed 3-year-old who sat atop the shoulders of his upper-middle class father. The kid looked confused and frightened. The ominous presence of armed police on horseback would be enough to upset anyone.
And I wondered how this child got pulled into this? I wondered how any of us got pulled into this. The fact is that those people handing down decisions on the abortion issue are not the ones who will have to live or die by it.
Ten years old. That's the age my child would have been. And I would not be here in Glasgow. I wouldn't be in this band or traveling. And I wouldn't have seen the liberal ways in which other countries we have visited deal with this issue. I wouldn't have been asked to write this piece. The fact that I've been through it on all levels is the only reason I accepted.
Perhaps I'll have a child in the future, when I can provide properly. Who knows. But as individuals in this "free" country, we must have the right to choose when that time is right. A couple -- perhaps 15 or 16 years old, maybe 10 years older -- is faced with an unwanted pregnancy; it makes no difference if there is no means of support. They're questioning whether they can provide a proper climate in which to raise a child. A healthy question for both them and society itself. Yeah, there are programs to assist. Welfare and health programs that are constant victims of cutbacks. The child can sit in severely overcrowded classrooms and be taught by underpaid teachers.
A right to a healthy future should be the consideration.
Operation Rescue? The point being the rescue of a nonentity, a zygote. Perhaps the rescue of a young woman in crisis would be more in order. Instead, combat lines are drawn at clinics, and women must be escorted through trenches, which only adds to their trauma. This is not a game. This is not a religious pep rally. This is a woman's future. Roe vs. Wade was decided 19 years ago and the fact that a well-organized group has come close to overturning it is raw proof that we do live in a democracy. But also the reason that any opposition must be equally as vocal. You go to school in Normal, Illinois? Collegetown, U.S.A.? Shout it out. There are people wary of the strength that young voters possess. Prove them right. Decide on the issues and vote -- male or female -- for this is not just a women's issue. It's human rights. If it were a man's body and it was his destiny we were deciding there would be no issue. Not in today's male dominated society.
-ev
http://www.freewebs.com/pearljamstudy/9 ... lamati.htm
Nice find :thumbup:0 -
AWESOME... I am addressing my comment to the TWO posts above me... well done, ladies.
ps- oh... well yeah... now I see another post... Nice job to you too, Byrnzie!
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You know, I have to give Heidi a lot of credit. I think he's the first poster in the history of the train who has been able to more or less bring us all together on the issue of abortion. I'm impressed!
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Suzi78 wrote:Heidi...please, calm down. You seem to have so much anger within you. Here's a song to make you relax.
My favorite part starts at 2.35. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYg5VrIlmn0
Nice. I've not seen that before...to my shame :oops:0 -
Byrnzie wrote:Suzi78 wrote:Heidi...please, calm down. You seem to have so much anger within you. Here's a song to make you relax.
My favorite part starts at 2.35. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYg5VrIlmn0
Nice. I've not seen that before...to my shame :oops:
Byrnzie! How can you not have seen this before?! :shock: This is the best Porch ever.
Hmm...maybe you were just too busy hi jacking that plane and running from the FBI.How I choose to feel is how I am0 -
There's at least 5 billion too many people in this world as it is.
Abortion sucks and I'm not sure if it was mine, I'd approve, but we all die. Might as well kill me before I get my first glimpse of the world rather than in a war or something.
That said, consider ourselves lucky we've made it this far..0 -
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I wonder if there is a place for all the aborted souls?
Maybe a waiting room that the souls go back to until they are wanted ...waiting for love
Waiting ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K04On2PkdaI
i'll dream a dream of you tonight
i'll see a picture of you in my head tonight
if i can't hear you, oh in real life
i'll make it up all my life
tonight i'll dream only of you
i got an old photograph
oh how they seem to last
these moments slip away
all the days so grey, grey...
seven years gone by now...(38 years gone by now)
oh still it's in my eyes
i'll walk away, walk away...
you're just about to miss the
best part of it all, of it all...
of it all, of it all...
for you my child that never was...I am sorry for your soul0 -
pandora wrote:I wonder if there is a place for all the aborted souls?
Do you count those fertilised eggs that have aborted naturally (ie approx 70% of potential pregnancies)?
When is one supposed to get a soul? At conception? At 40 days? Or 80 days? (Depending if you are male or female) At quickening?
Should one believe in the concept of 'soul' there are many 'theories' as to when acquiring soul happens.0 -
redrock wrote:pandora wrote:I wonder if there is a place for all the aborted souls?
Do you count those fertilised eggs that have aborted naturally (ie approx 70% of potential pregnancies)?
When is one supposed to get a soul? At conception? At 40 days? Or 80 days? (Depending if you are male or female) At quickening?
Should one believe in the concept of 'soul' there are many 'theories' as to when acquiring soul happens.
those who believe in souls at conception,
those who don't believe at all.... there is a human soul
and those in the middle who somehow logically pick a time the soul enters the fetus.
Do I count fertilized eggs? yes.... I do...I count all souls ... as though they walk the earth.
I believe the soul is chosen at conception.
My baby had a soul... my point ... my belief....my tribute... to our shared loss.0 -
I'm still trying to figure out this whole "soul" thing. Is that your consciousness? Or is it like the christian Holy Spirit thing a ma jigger?Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.0
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he still stands wrote:I'm still trying to figure out this whole "soul" thing. Is that your consciousness? Or is it like the christian Holy Spirit thing a ma jigger?
Is this the only choices
it has nothing to do with religion or consciousness if anything more with the subconscious
Your path will lead you to your answers and your beliefs may just be a bump in the road0 -
As you say - your belief. For you any fertilised egg that has not come to a full term pregnancy with a live birth is a lost soul. Maybe that's the way you deal with something that, at the time seemed right but now you regret. Belief doesn't really have a place in science. Morals - perhaps/yes, religious beliefs - no. For the scientific/medical world decisions cannot be made on the basis of a religious concept.
he still stands... christian holy spirit thing a ma jigger. Consciousness is very different - it's your 'definition'. I think that the christians are the only one with an 'eternal soul' (a gift of god of some kind). Certainly Buddhism doesn't have that concept. It's more the concept of consciousness - just a continuation of awareness.0
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