guns and bullets

Cosmo

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Unfortunatly you are probably right, however the debate here was around the morality of guns being so readily available. That people don't see fit to challange such an outdated ideology may speak volumes as to how America is percieved in the world today.

Good point. This made me wonder (I had not heard), did the shooter in the AZ incident obtain his gun legally?[/quote]
...
The answer is, Yes. He purchased it retail in late November of 2010.

pjhawks

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Yes, of course responsible gun owners are good people.
And there is NO way to tell if there were tougher laws/bans on guns whether or not the nutjob in AZ would have gone through the trouble to get one.

It is so sad that this happened to this little 9 yr old girl -- and I only wish that guns werent so easy to obtain here in the US.

Just my opinion, but i've had 3 personal encounters with guns that all almost turned our horribly bad. If I were the owner a gun, nothing would have changed in these scanarios.

(hypothetically) If guns were banned in the US I feel that it would take dozens of years to eliminate them enough to where it would make a difference on the street, but it would make me feel better. I live in a huge gang area where tons of thugs can get their hands on guns very easily. Gas station clerks are being killed non-stop over a handful of cash here. If there were no guns, many of these needless murderes would not be happening at the rate they do.

most if not all of those thugs though are rarely if ever buying guns legally. they are buying them on the street. eliminating the right to own a handgun would just make that market even larger. what needs to happen is eliminating the more powerful guns along with making the gun manufacturers come up with a way to trace guns in some form so they are accountable for all guns produced. not saying make gun manufacturers criminally or economically responsible for guns used in crimes but if we can allow law enforcement to trace gun ownership we can make it more difficult and more dangerous to sell guns illegally. if you buy a gun and sell it to a criminal we should be able to trace it back to the original owner and hold that person somewhat responsible for crimes commited with a gun they purchased. but that's just my 2 cents = and oh i would never consider owning a gun myself.

MotoDC

CROJAM95 wrote:

How come we rarely hear about chicks shooting up crowds??? Anyone???

Testosterone is a motherfucker.

JonnyPistachio

pjhawks wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Yes, of course responsible gun owners are good people.
And there is NO way to tell if there were tougher laws/bans on guns whether or not the nutjob in AZ would have gone through the trouble to get one.

It is so sad that this happened to this little 9 yr old girl -- and I only wish that guns werent so easy to obtain here in the US.

Just my opinion, but i've had 3 personal encounters with guns that all almost turned our horribly bad. If I were the owner a gun, nothing would have changed in these scanarios.

(hypothetically) If guns were banned in the US I feel that it would take dozens of years to eliminate them enough to where it would make a difference on the street, but it would make me feel better. I live in a huge gang area where tons of thugs can get their hands on guns very easily. Gas station clerks are being killed non-stop over a handful of cash here. If there were no guns, many of these needless murderes would not be happening at the rate they do.

most if not all of those thugs though are rarely if ever buying guns legally. they are buying them on the street. eliminating the right to own a handgun would just make that market even larger. what needs to happen is eliminating the more powerful guns along with making the gun manufacturers come up with a way to trace guns in some form so they are accountable for all guns produced. not saying make gun manufacturers criminally or economically responsible for guns used in crimes but if we can allow law enforcement to trace gun ownership we can make it more difficult and more dangerous to sell guns illegally. if you buy a gun and sell it to a criminal we should be able to trace it back to the original owner and hold that person somewhat responsible for crimes commited with a gun they purchased. but that's just my 2 cents = and oh i would never consider owning a gun myself.

Good point Pjhawks..
this might be crazy, but maybe they can install some kind of chip in new guns that is like OnStar. That way a gun could be tracked if it is ever stolen (or like you said, make it easier to track back to original owner).

pjhawks

JonnyPistachio wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Yes, of course responsible gun owners are good people.
And there is NO way to tell if there were tougher laws/bans on guns whether or not the nutjob in AZ would have gone through the trouble to get one.

It is so sad that this happened to this little 9 yr old girl -- and I only wish that guns werent so easy to obtain here in the US.

Just my opinion, but i've had 3 personal encounters with guns that all almost turned our horribly bad. If I were the owner a gun, nothing would have changed in these scanarios.

(hypothetically) If guns were banned in the US I feel that it would take dozens of years to eliminate them enough to where it would make a difference on the street, but it would make me feel better. I live in a huge gang area where tons of thugs can get their hands on guns very easily. Gas station clerks are being killed non-stop over a handful of cash here. If there were no guns, many of these needless murderes would not be happening at the rate they do.

most if not all of those thugs though are rarely if ever buying guns legally. they are buying them on the street. eliminating the right to own a handgun would just make that market even larger. what needs to happen is eliminating the more powerful guns along with making the gun manufacturers come up with a way to trace guns in some form so they are accountable for all guns produced. not saying make gun manufacturers criminally or economically responsible for guns used in crimes but if we can allow law enforcement to trace gun ownership we can make it more difficult and more dangerous to sell guns illegally. if you buy a gun and sell it to a criminal we should be able to trace it back to the original owner and hold that person somewhat responsible for crimes commited with a gun they purchased. but that's just my 2 cents = and oh i would never consider owning a gun myself.

Good point Pjhawks..
this might be crazy, but maybe they can install some kind of chip in new guns that is like OnStar. That way a gun could be tracked if it is ever stolen (or like you said, make it easier to track back to original owner).

i am pretty sure they can do this as i vaguely remember the governor of Pennsylvania (or maybe when he was mayor of philadelphia) trying to get a law passed forcing the gun manufacturers to do this. in 2011 you would think there has to be a way to do this better than putting a serial number that can be scraped off.

Godfather.

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Gun ownership in the United States of America will never go away.
End of story.

Godfather.

...
That is pretty black and white. No one wants to abolish the Second Amendment, except for the few on the extreme end... same goes for the ones who think everyone should own a gun.
How about some reasonable gun ownership responsibilities... including the selling of firearms. I am certain that even you believe that certain people should not be allowed to own guns, right?

absolutely ! some like that kid in AZ who got kicked out of community collage because he was unstable, that kind of thing should be reported and his name on list, then when a person registers to buy a gun that should pop up and stop the sale of weapons and amo to people like that, it wouldn't stop crimes by these people all together but is a good move.

Godfather.

Godfather.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Gun ownership in the United States of America will never go away.
End of story.

Godfather.

Unfortunatly you are probably right, however the debate here was around the morality of guns being so readily available. That people don't see fit to challange such an outdated ideology may speak volumes as to how America is percieved in the world today.

Good point. This made me wonder (I had not heard), did the shooter in the AZ incident obtain his gun legally?

yes he did.

Godfather.

Blockhead

Godfather. wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

Gun ownership in the United States of America will never go away.
End of story.

Godfather.

...
That is pretty black and white. No one wants to abolish the Second Amendment, except for the few on the extreme end... same goes for the ones who think everyone should own a gun.
How about some reasonable gun ownership responsibilities... including the selling of firearms. I am certain that even you believe that certain people should not be allowed to own guns, right?

absolutely ! some like that kid in AZ who got kicked out of community collage because he was unstable, that kind of thing should be reported and his name on list, then when a person registers to buy a gun that should pop up and stop the sale of weapons and amo to people like that, it wouldn't stop crimes by these people all together but is a good move.

Godfather.

I am glad someone here is using common sense instead of knee jerk reactions.

ed243421

common sense?
i think the 2 of you are onto something
oh, wait
there already is a process in place to check backgrounds
any other ideas?

unsung

JonnyPistachio wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

Great post.
Also, we are discussing this topic every time there is a mass shooting by some crazy whackjob. In the several biggest cases in recent history -- Az, Virginia, columbine, and many others, were the crazed gunmen EVER stopped by someone carrying their concealed weapon?

Aren't schools gun free zones? Not a very good example.

The parking lot in AZ where last weeks shooting took place wasnt a gun-free zone.
There are dozens of other MASS shooting cases (not in schools) in the last few years in the US that commonly end with the shooter killing himself, or sometimes the shooter being shot by police. I hardly ever hear of a good samaritan saving the day with their concealed weapon in these cases.[/quote]


There was a recent church shooting that was stopped by a citizen that carried.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

so then who decides who and who doesn't get to own a gun? isn't that against their constitutional rights? how is that common sense?

HeidiJam wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

absolutely ! some like that kid in AZ who got kicked out of community collage because he was unstable, that kind of thing should be reported and his name on list, then when a person registers to buy a gun that should pop up and stop the sale of weapons and amo to people like that, it wouldn't stop crimes by these people all together but is a good move.

Godfather.

I am glad someone here is using common sense instead of knee jerk reactions.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

unsung wrote:

There was a recent church shooting that was stopped by a citizen that carried.

that would be an anomaly, and not the norm.

Godfather.

ed243421 wrote:

common sense?
i think the 2 of you are onto something
oh, wait
there already is a process in place to check backgrounds
any other ideas?

g don't you have illegal immigrant to save or something like that to do instead of following my posts around and throwing in some stupid ass comment.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Paul David wrote:

so then who decides who and who doesn't get to own a gun? isn't that against their constitutional rights? how is that common sense?

HeidiJam wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

absolutely ! some like that kid in AZ who got kicked out of community collage because he was unstable, that kind of thing should be reported and his name on list, then when a person registers to buy a gun that should pop up and stop the sale of weapons and amo to people like that, it wouldn't stop crimes by these people all together but is a good move.

Godfather.

I am glad someone here is using common sense instead of knee jerk reactions.

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

Enkidu

Godfather. wrote:

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

I agree. Shouldn't it be as hard to buy a gun as it is to get a driver's license? (Full disclosure - I have a shotgun.)

And someone just sent this to me, I thought I'd pass it along.

From Slate:

Arizona Citizens Defense League Wants Firearms Training for Members of Congress, Staff
Posted Monday, January 10, 2011 1:36 PM | By David Weigel
Charles Heller, one of the co-founders of the pro gun-rights Arizona Citizens Defense League, tells me that the group has put together model legislation that would require the state to help train members of Congress and their staff in the use of firearms.
"Our model legislation is called the Giffords-Zimmerman Act," said Heller. (Giffords staffer Gabriel Zimmerman, 30, was killed on Saturday.) "It would require the Arizona Department of Public Safety to provide firearms training, using firearms confiscated by the state, to members of Congress and people who work for them. Facilities would be made available to them in a way that wouldn't interfere with the training of police and other safety employees."
Heller speculated that a response like this could prevent future attacks on members of Congress. "I don't think having a firearm on her would do Congresswoman Giffords any good," said Heller. "However, if it was known that members of her staff were well armed, that very well could have dissuaded [the shooter]."
The AzCDL, founded in 2005, has successfully lobbied for more lax gun laws in the state.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Godfather. wrote:

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

yes of course that would make sense, GF, but up until now we were talking about people with mental issues, not intellectual disabilities. there is a grey area with regards to diagnosing and then taking away rights of someone who has dangerous tendencies who has yet to actually commit a crime. isn't that going down a pretty steep slope?

what if someone found out who you were, and monitored your posts on here? surely they wouldn't allow you to bath yourself, much less own a gun. (just kidding GF,it's all good, I couldn't resist)

Godfather.

Paul David wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

yes of course that would make sense, GF, but up until now we were talking about people with mental issues, not intellectual disabilities. there is a grey area with regards to diagnosing and then taking away rights of someone who has dangerous tendencies who has yet to actually commit a crime. isn't that going down a pretty steep slope?

what if someone found out who you were, and monitored your posts on here? surely they wouldn't allow you to bath yourself, much less own a gun. (just kidding GF,it's all good, I couldn't resist)

ha ha ha funny guy I agree it is a little gray, if you and the others would rather no restrictions were placed on gun purchases I would be good with that also

Godfather.

Godfather.

Enkidu wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

I agree. Shouldn't it be as hard to buy a gun as it is to get a driver's license? (Full disclosure - I have a shotgun.)

And someone just sent this to me, I thought I'd pass it along.

From Slate:

Arizona Citizens Defense League Wants Firearms Training for Members of Congress, Staff
Posted Monday, January 10, 2011 1:36 PM | By David Weigel
Charles Heller, one of the co-founders of the pro gun-rights Arizona Citizens Defense League, tells me that the group has put together model legislation that would require the state to help train members of Congress and their staff in the use of firearms.
"Our model legislation is called the Giffords-Zimmerman Act," said Heller. (Giffords staffer Gabriel Zimmerman, 30, was killed on Saturday.) "It would require the Arizona Department of Public Safety to provide firearms training, using firearms confiscated by the state, to members of Congress and people who work for them. Facilities would be made available to them in a way that wouldn't interfere with the training of police and other safety employees."
Heller speculated that a response like this could prevent future attacks on members of Congress. "I don't think having a firearm on her would do Congresswoman Giffords any good," said Heller. "However, if it was known that members of her staff were well armed, that very well could have dissuaded [the shooter]."
The AzCDL, founded in 2005, has successfully lobbied for more lax gun laws in the state.

I'm all for it.

Godfather.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

no, not at all. I'm all FOR more gun restrictions. I'm just saying with the idea of keeping them away from people who have emotional/mental issues, there would be a MASSIVE backlash on that. especially when the illness isn't visible or tangible in some way. it would never fly.

Godfather. wrote:

Paul David wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

do mentally challenged people get to drive ? wouldn't it make sense to not allow the same to buy a gun ?
by mentally challenged I also mean people with aggressive and dangerous tendencies, if that guy in AZ had been reported when he was first known to have those tendencies he may not have been able to buy a gun,who knows ?

Godfather.

yes of course that would make sense, GF, but up until now we were talking about people with mental issues, not intellectual disabilities. there is a grey area with regards to diagnosing and then taking away rights of someone who has dangerous tendencies who has yet to actually commit a crime. isn't that going down a pretty steep slope?

what if someone found out who you were, and monitored your posts on here? surely they wouldn't allow you to bath yourself, much less own a gun. (just kidding GF,it's all good, I couldn't resist)

ha ha ha funny guy I agree it is a little gray, if you and the others would rather no restrictions were placed on gun purchases I would be good with that also

Godfather.

Godfather.

well it's an idea.

Godfather.