bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.
peace.
Sounds good Paul. I agree with you too… we’re not going to all agree, but I just feel something needs to be done. There are more and more mass shootings lately by crazy folks.
Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.
But its attitudes like this ^^^ that make me wonder who is fit to own a weapon. Seriously dude, this is a passionate subject, and many people are voicing opinions, but you bring this to an all-time-low with your condescending shittalk. You seriously sound like you need anger management classes. I don’t even know Haffa, but we are all PJ fans here. Show a little respect.
Why don't you quit cherry picking quotes and show what haffa said... Some of you people are truly clowns here and it is extremely frustraiting... Johnny If you are going to post that post then post what haffa said and my entire response post, and address what you don't agree with. If you can't stand up for yourself that you are a pussy bitch, is that wrong???
Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.
And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.
Well, I think it's quite clear I want handguns banned. That's what happened in Scotland after the Dunblane massacre, and guess what? No more massacres. Yes, criminals will always have guns - they even have them here too, in a city where there is a lot of gangland violence, but where no law-abiding citizen is packing heat. Where not even the beat police are armed. Result: your gun homicide rate is fifteen times ours. There's your enabling environment.
As to "allowing sane law abiding people town and carry guns", you have still completely failed to answer the questions on that point I asked you earlier.
I don't remember it? Thought I covered my opinion and the questions.
You want to ban guns...I thought that was the case.
No middle of the road, no tougher laws, total banishment to our basic right. A ban that would not allow those who wish to own a gun safely to do so. Rational, careful, peaceful people.
To me that is craziness.
Here are the questions again: How do you define who is responsible? How do you guarantee that only those people can have them? And how do you guarantee those people stay responsible?
Until you can guarantee that only responsible people can legally carry guns, I think it is not worth the risk of playing with people's lives. And I don't believe that such a guarantee is possible.
The fact of the matter is, it is not a "basic" right. It is not even close to having any meaningful equivalence with the fundamental human rights. It is a privilege and a completely unnecessary one at that, and I think innocent people's lives are far more important, far more precious than that unnecessary privilege.
But I've repeated this point ad nauseum at this point and I'm done with it. I've said what I need to say. You can accept it or not, but if not we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
A small light shines between us though we are both against capital punishment
That much I am happy to acknowledge.
Post edited by wolfamongwolves on
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.
And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.
Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.
Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.
And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.
Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.
So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.
I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.
This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.
I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.
These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.
What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.
oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...
Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.
And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.
Who did I call a name??? I said that you you can't stand up for your self then you are a pussy bitch. I did not call anybody that. And please expalin why you qoted that as it had nothing to do with the subject matter. If you are going to post anything please post the whole thing from both parties.
bottom line, Heidi, is that you feel you are safer with a gun in your house as you feel the risk of an intruder exceeds that of an accident. I feel the opposite. there are no stats or facts that will turn either of us the other way.
peace.
You know you're talking to the guy who thinks bullying is a good character builder, right?
Thumbs up for violence, everybody! :thumbup:
haha, I said bullying is unavoidable as children aren't mature enough to handle emitions/differences, etc... In which it is a good character builder Ie standing up for your self, I see no issues with that. You are the one who classified setting someone on fire, assult, murder, as acts of bully. You streached the term bully into something that was a catch all to all crime done to someone. You also blames suicide on bullying... It seems our definitions on bullying differ and you see it as murder and i see it as calling names/making fun of. Thats fine, I am not for violence but at least I am not afraid to stand up for my self and teach my kids the same. Its the parents responsibility to stop bullying if it escalades into physical abuse. Your just mad that you can't stand up for yourself becase you afraid it might turn into something physical. I think the definition of that is a Pussy Bitch.
oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...
Please show me when and why I was banned and please ask KAT to comment on that, as I have never been banned from here. WHy lie???
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.
So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.
Here are the questions again: How do you define who is responsible? How do you guarantee that only those people can have them? And how do you guarantee those people stay responsible?
Until you can guarantee that only responsible people can legally carry guns, I think it is not worth the risk of playing with people's lives. And I don't believe that such a guarantee is possible.
The fact of the matter is, it is not a "basic" right. It is not even close to having any meaningful equivalence with the fundamental human rights. It is a privilege and a completely unnecessary one at that, and I think innocent people's lives are far more important, far more precious than that unnecessary privilege.
But I've repeated this point ad nauseum at this point and I'm done with it. I've said what I need to say. You can accept it or not, but if not we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
oh, I forgot, you've probably been banned before, so you know not to directly call someone a CLOWN or a PUSSY BITCH. If you just say that person falls under that definition, is not a direct insult.. ah okay, you got me, you're off the hook. Continue on...
Please show me when and why I was banned and please ask KAT to comment on that, as I have never been banned from here. WHy lie???
its a joke dude, I am just flabberghasted that you are in denial that you are condescending and use immature insults. nevermind. We dont need to talk anymore, I have no time for your attitude.
I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.
so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.
Sorry, that argument holds no water.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.
I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.
This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.
I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.
These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.
What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.
Amazing, how do you know no law would have stopped him?? You believe the backround checks to have been sufficient - really? Well I say they weren't, 6 people are dead because of existing laws. And rather than say, perhaps the law needs reviewing, you just wipe the tragedy away with a "These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them." statement and then have the gall to talk about empathy.
Anything to ensure you keep that sacred gun, everyone else be damned, good luck with that. Everyone is entitled to feel the way they do, careful with the tone, very judgemental of you :roll:
you speak of intent and knowing what people would do - do you really not see the sheer unadulterated irony in the drivel you are talking? Anyway, best of luck.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.
So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.
so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.
Sorry, that argument holds no water.
Please explain to me the benifits of hard drugs, do they contribute anything positive to society, they destroy the lives of the users as well as their families. Guns do as they have stopped crimes many times, have allowed people to hunt and eat food for history.
Sorry, that arguement does hold water.
I am saying you can't take things away from people because someone can not handle that responsibility. We are adults and we are in control of our own actions.
so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.
Sorry, that argument holds no water.
Please explain to me the benifits of hard drugs, do they contribute anything positive to society, they destroy the lives of the users as well as their families. Guns do as they have stopped crimes many times, have allowed people to hunt and eat food for history.
Sorry, that arguement does hold water.
Pot helps HIV patients in eating which allows them to live a better life. Heroin has been used in Cancer treatments.
So you believe that the backround checks and waiting period served its purpose here? I am shocked and amazed that your insistance to be right is over riding your logic - to say "you know what, perhaps, based on this case, more stringent laws should be applied to ensure it doesnt happen again" would not mean you lost the debate, it would make you human for godsake.
I'm sick of this, I actually feel quite disgusted by some of you, as a species we are fucked if this is what we spend our efforts trying to defend, fucking appalling.
This is not a debate for me this is how I feel and it is logical and realistic. You are assuming I only care about being right but this is how strongly I feel.
I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.
These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.
What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.
Amazing, how do you know no law would have stopped him?? You believe the backround checks to have been sufficient - really? Well I say they weren't, 6 people are dead because of existing laws. And rather than say, perhaps the law needs reviewing, you just wipe the tragedy away with a "These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them." statement and then have the gall to talk about empathy.
Anything to ensure you keep that sacred gun, everyone else be damned, good luck with that. Everyone is entitled to feel the way they do, careful with the tone, very judgemental of you :roll:
you speak of intent and knowing what people would do - do you really not see the sheer unadulterated irony in the drivel you are talking? Anyway, best of luck.
I don't think you mean that 'best of luck'
Because someone here on this earth knows there will be tragedies does not make them someone who lacks empathy. Actually it is just the opposite. I do not make light of tragedies again you are not listening or feeling me at all but just judging me because I believe in the right to own a gun.
I was not being judgmental and it is you who resorts to insults.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.
So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?
How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:
I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.
There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.
So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?
How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:
I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.
ummm :? what did I say about you again? I don't roll eyes at people either I think that is degrading to others
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?
How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:
I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.
ummm :? what did I say about you again? I don't roll eyes at people either I think that is degrading to others
its not a big deal, but I just dont like when people tell me what i'm thinking. you were dead wrong, you said:
I think guns are perfect microcosm of the issues that our government has on its plate. For years they have gone halfway with legislation, adding costs of unknown amounts to the national debt as the gun debate rages on. Lobbyists gain influence over politicians, and so forth and so on. But in the end, all the laws that they put out there in the name of helping curb gun violence or whatever else they claim will happen really do nothing. The new health care law is the same way. They went halfway, thus eliminating very few if any of the actual problems and wasting countless dollars in the process. I realize that this may be rambling a little, but it makes perfect sense to me
What I am meaning to say is simple in its idea though, government involvement in everyday lives like this really doesn't do much. Making it harder for citizens who follow the rules doesn't really do much to stop those who don't from doing whatever they want...it is really time for federal/state government to rethink the way they create, execute, and punish violations of law. Why continue to fight losing battles on things like guns, drugs, healthcare, when those resources would be better used to build infrastructure etc. Unless the politicians are willing to go 100% one way or the other nothing will truly ever be solved.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I didn't say what you were thinking I said you were not feeling the insanity here in this guy.
It seemed to me you felt laws would stop him from doing what he did which they won't,
not when you put your head where his is.
So I have answered your questions ...I have made my point
no laws will stop this type of thing...in my opinion.
Not even a total ban of guns.... nothing.
The actions of people like this are uncontrollable and taking away rights of others is wrong and not a solution.
As far as the eye rolling it seems a bit standard in these parts and is really an unkind and disrespectful thing to do.
I think guns are perfect microcosm of the issues that our government has on its plate. For years they have gone halfway with legislation, adding costs of unknown amounts to the national debt as the gun debate rages on. Lobbyists gain influence over politicians, and so forth and so on. But in the end, all the laws that they put out there in the name of helping curb gun violence or whatever else they claim will happen really do nothing. The new health care law is the same way. They went halfway, thus eliminating very few if any of the actual problems and wasting countless dollars in the process. I realize that this may be rambling a little, but it makes perfect sense to me
What I am meaning to say is simple in its idea though, government involvement in everyday lives like this really doesn't do much. Making it harder for citizens who follow the rules doesn't really do much to stop those who don't from doing whatever they want...it is really time for federal/state government to rethink the way they create, execute, and punish violations of law. Why continue to fight losing battles on things like guns, drugs, healthcare, when those resources would be better used to build infrastructure etc. Unless the politicians are willing to go 100% one way or the other nothing will truly ever be solved.
I can understand what you are saying here but for me and just for me. I think governments should begin to look at problems in a different way. I think governments should look at spending more money on mental health to help people who have major mental health issues deal with life. that may not have worked with this guy i do believe it would stop more crimes in the future. helping the poor will help in curbing crime. as tupac once said "instead of a war on poverty, they got a war on drugs so that the police can bother me." but the biggest issue i see facing this world is the idea of more. everyone wants more: more money, more freedom, more more and more and until we fix that mindset things like this will continue to happen.
I didn't say what you were thinking I said you were not feeling the insanity here in this guy.
It seemed to me you felt laws would stop him from doing what he did which they won't,
not when you put your head where his is.
So I have answered your questions ...I have made my point
no laws will stop this type of thing...in my opinion.
Not even a total ban of guns.... nothing.
The actions of people like this are uncontrollable and taking away rights of others is wrong and not a solution.
As far as the eye rolling it seems a bit standard in these parts and is really an unkind and disrespectful thing to do.
Did you read the article? Clips with 30 rounds were banned until 2004.
the AZ shooter was tackled when he tried to put in a new clip.
What if there was a law that limited a clip to 10 bullets? maybe 3 people dead instead of 6?
maybe.
does that really make 'responsible' gun owners compromise too much?
I sure dont think so.
its not a ban, its a compromise, and it coul've made a difference.
I understand you think the eye roll is disrepectful, but not EVERYBODY thinks like you. It is a smily face with an eye roll. My intentions were to jab fun. Maybe you didnt intend on offending me eitrher when you told me how I was thinking. You clearly said I was thinking of him of him as a rational law abiding, when I absolutely was not.
Did you read the article? Clips with 30 rounds were banned until 2004.
the AZ shooter was tackled when he tried to put in a new clip.
What if there was a law that limited a clip to 10 bullets? maybe 3 people dead instead of 6?
maybe.
does that really make 'responsible' gun owners compromise too much?
I sure dont think so.
its not a ban, its a compromise, and it coul've made a difference.
I understand you think the eye roll is disrepectful, but not EVERYBODY thinks like you. It is a smily face with an eye roll. My intentions were to jab fun. Maybe you didnt intend on offending me eitrher when you told me how I was thinking. You clearly said I was thinking of him of him as a rational law abiding, when I absolutely was not.
:roll: This smiley face is not smiling... if you could hear it there with the tisk or geez sound...not funny
and your comment 'not everybody thinks like me" I also get the jab there with your caps lock I guess you felt the need to shout that word.
Being kind is being cautious with another's feelings, and rolling eyes is not being cautious it is offensive to anothers opinion. A real put down.
This is what I said
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
I stand by that, in my opinion you think a law will stop him, I do not. Laws only stop law abiding people so I assumed you thought he was law abiding to some degree.
I have also said many times here I am not up on each states laws but in general feel the laws that impose waiting restrictions and do background checks are sufficient.
I stand by that, in my opinion you think a law will stop him, I do not. Laws only stop law abiding people so I assumed you thought he was law abiding to some degree.
I have also said many times here I am not up on each states laws but in general feel the laws that impose waiting restrictions and do background checks are sufficient.
You dont agree that with less bullets in a clip, less people would have died?
I stand by that, in my opinion you think a law will stop him, I do not. Laws only stop law abiding people so I assumed you thought he was law abiding to some degree.
I have also said many times here I am not up on each states laws but in general feel the laws that impose waiting restrictions and do background checks are sufficient.
You dont agree that with less bullets in a clip, less people would have died?
The guy was carrying an estimated 90 bullets, wasn't he?
America has the same issues as that of other countries in the western world - and yet the majority of the populace does not feel the need to arm themselves - why is that do you think? And enough of this argument that they take it up the ass from their governments, I really do think you would be suprised at peoples ability to question their governments (the only difference is, not have have a paranoid, irrational fear government agents are going to come get them in the dead of night).
The country I am from has a bloody history when it comes to guns and indeed bombs. Fact is, as a progressive step forward, those involved in the violence sat down, worked out an agreement (not perfect, but it's a start) and then you nkow what they did - put their guns into a hole and poured cement over it. This sides have been fueding for centuries, some said it was in our blood, and yet now these same people who grew up killing eachother dit side by side sharing power (to some extent).
There is such a thing as life with out guns, it's not a them and us for godsake, your fear is an irrational one.
But please just explain to me how other countries manage it - take Canada for instance, what is the difference there???
There is life without guns, but there is no life without criminals... I have a hard time beliving if guns went extinct and people started killing with the next best available tool that you to would not want to put a ban and restrictions on that. Its the way you/ your group think. You can't eliminate everything because a small minority use the object as an instrument to kill. Same with alcohol you can't take it away from people because some use it in excess and make bad decisions like killing and abusing people. People have been kililng people since the begining of time and have been using whatever is easiest to get that job done. YOu guys act as if guns are loading themselves and pulling their own trigger back and pointing it to a target. There not! Messed up people are. How do you people not get that gun bans only effect law abiding citizens they do not effect criminals.
are you ok with North Korea and Iran having nuclear weapons?
great question dunk
can any of the gun lovers answer this one?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Comments
Again, you are rude and cant keep from calling names. I was very interested in what everyone has had to say, but my point is that you lower the standards in here when you call people clowns and pussy bitches and several other really immature names that you love to throw around. its pathetic. I didnt post the whole thing because it was too long and it didnt matter, I kinda knew you'd retort with more name calling. I didnt want to be a part of this anymore because you are like talking to a 5 yr old with a fucking gun. But I guess that makes me a clown and a pussy bitch. you're an intelligent dude, discuss this stuff with some dignity, and drop the namecalling.
And I postred Paul Davids comment because I was trying to re-inforce that we all want differnt hings that wont change. But if we act with some dignity, amybe we can solve some problems and keep innocent people like that 9 yr old girl from being gunned down in a parking lot.
Here are the questions again: How do you define who is responsible? How do you guarantee that only those people can have them? And how do you guarantee those people stay responsible?
Until you can guarantee that only responsible people can legally carry guns, I think it is not worth the risk of playing with people's lives. And I don't believe that such a guarantee is possible.
The fact of the matter is, it is not a "basic" right. It is not even close to having any meaningful equivalence with the fundamental human rights. It is a privilege and a completely unnecessary one at that, and I think innocent people's lives are far more important, far more precious than that unnecessary privilege.
But I've repeated this point ad nauseum at this point and I'm done with it. I've said what I need to say. You can accept it or not, but if not we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
That much I am happy to acknowledge.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMaBta4 ... re=related
I do believe the laws in place, the little I have admitted to knowing of them, the waiting periods and background checks to be sufficient.
I am realistic enough to know that this boy was intent on evil.
No law would have stopped him, no lack of gun.
You act as though I don't feel, that I am not human, you don't know me and are super quick to judge.
This doesn't surprise me.
These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them.
What makes our species fucked is the hate.
The endless judging of others and assuming some are better and on the high road.
The lack of empathy and understanding for each other.
The being made 'sick' by something other than evil.
This boy is the only thing that should make anyone sick, not the gun he held.
Or being made 'sick' because someone believes something other than you.
Believes in the basic right to own a gun safely.
whatever makes you happy:
There is no way of telling this. Thats speculation.
So you dont think there was ANY WAY of avoiding the deaths 5 adults and a 9 yr old?
Should we not ask questions and wonder if the system is working. If you're OK with the deaths of these people, I guess everything should just go on 'as is'.
The law can not cover if situations and carries no guarantee.
I understand this.
I also know that with each action there is a reaction and thus is the chain
that with each tragedy there is a silver lining of love
that we are all connected here and there
and this alone is reason enough for the things that happen
its a joke dude, I am just flabberghasted that you are in denial that you are condescending and use immature insults. nevermind. We dont need to talk anymore, I have no time for your attitude.
so do you support the legalization of heroin, cocaine, acid, etc, because we are all adults? I mean, if I can handle a little bit of coke at a party, then it should be legal, right? It's not my fault some junkie who lives on the street can't.
Sorry, that argument holds no water.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Amazing, how do you know no law would have stopped him?? You believe the backround checks to have been sufficient - really? Well I say they weren't, 6 people are dead because of existing laws. And rather than say, perhaps the law needs reviewing, you just wipe the tragedy away with a "These tragedies will happen. All the laws in the world will not stop them." statement and then have the gall to talk about empathy.
Anything to ensure you keep that sacred gun, everyone else be damned, good luck with that. Everyone is entitled to feel the way they do, careful with the tone, very judgemental of you :roll:
you speak of intent and knowing what people would do - do you really not see the sheer unadulterated irony in the drivel you are talking? Anyway, best of luck.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
Sorry, that arguement does hold water.
Pot helps HIV patients in eating which allows them to live a better life. Heroin has been used in Cancer treatments.
Because someone here on this earth knows there will be tragedies does not make them someone who lacks empathy. Actually it is just the opposite. I do not make light of tragedies again you are not listening or feeling me at all but just judging me because I believe in the right to own a gun.
I was not being judgmental and it is you who resorts to insults.
you didnt answer: so you are just OK with what happened and dont see ANY WAY to avoid things like this?
How are you able to say that about me?! for one who preaches to not judge so much... :roll:
I have looked at this from many perspectives. I dont know the answer, but I do know that this is a major failure in our society. A 9 yr old girl is DEAD. Did you see my other post? I said maybe a stricter law could have postponed it JUST long enough that someone would've recognized his mental instabilities. We cant just sit back and say, oh its just gonna happen no matter what... :? thats not a good attitude for me to take.
its not a big deal, but I just dont like when people tell me what i'm thinking. you were dead wrong, you said:
sorry about the eyes roll, I just find it degrading when people tell me what i'm thinking.
and you still didnt answer any questions.
AZ has some of the most permissive in the country. just saw this 5 minutes ago:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018491/ns ... ?GT1=43001
Wanna bet that changes?
What I am meaning to say is simple in its idea though, government involvement in everyday lives like this really doesn't do much. Making it harder for citizens who follow the rules doesn't really do much to stop those who don't from doing whatever they want...it is really time for federal/state government to rethink the way they create, execute, and punish violations of law. Why continue to fight losing battles on things like guns, drugs, healthcare, when those resources would be better used to build infrastructure etc. Unless the politicians are willing to go 100% one way or the other nothing will truly ever be solved.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It seemed to me you felt laws would stop him from doing what he did which they won't,
not when you put your head where his is.
So I have answered your questions ...I have made my point
no laws will stop this type of thing...in my opinion.
Not even a total ban of guns.... nothing.
The actions of people like this are uncontrollable and taking away rights of others is wrong and not a solution.
As far as the eye rolling it seems a bit standard in these parts and is really an unkind and disrespectful thing to do.
I can understand what you are saying here but for me and just for me. I think governments should begin to look at problems in a different way. I think governments should look at spending more money on mental health to help people who have major mental health issues deal with life. that may not have worked with this guy i do believe it would stop more crimes in the future. helping the poor will help in curbing crime. as tupac once said "instead of a war on poverty, they got a war on drugs so that the police can bother me." but the biggest issue i see facing this world is the idea of more. everyone wants more: more money, more freedom, more more and more and until we fix that mindset things like this will continue to happen.
Did you read the article? Clips with 30 rounds were banned until 2004.
the AZ shooter was tackled when he tried to put in a new clip.
What if there was a law that limited a clip to 10 bullets? maybe 3 people dead instead of 6?
maybe.
does that really make 'responsible' gun owners compromise too much?
I sure dont think so.
its not a ban, its a compromise, and it coul've made a difference.
I understand you think the eye roll is disrepectful, but not EVERYBODY thinks like you. It is a smily face with an eye roll. My intentions were to jab fun. Maybe you didnt intend on offending me eitrher when you told me how I was thinking. You clearly said I was thinking of him of him as a rational law abiding, when I absolutely was not.
and your comment 'not everybody thinks like me" I also get the jab there with your caps lock I guess you felt the need to shout that word.
Being kind is being cautious with another's feelings, and rolling eyes is not being cautious it is offensive to anothers opinion. A real put down.
This is what I said
Laws couldn't have avoided this...don't you see? he had his own law. You are not trying to feel him.
You are thinking of him as rational law abiding, like you are. He would have done this whatever the law,
with or without a gun. That is not speculation. He was swept into his mission. He was premeditated.
He was living out his calling. He was filled with hate. This was his outcome.
I stand by that, in my opinion you think a law will stop him, I do not. Laws only stop law abiding people so I assumed you thought he was law abiding to some degree.
I have also said many times here I am not up on each states laws but in general feel the laws that impose waiting restrictions and do background checks are sufficient.
Too messy. Chicks normally poison entire crowds. Happens all over the world every single day.
You dont agree that with less bullets in a clip, less people would have died?
The guy was carrying an estimated 90 bullets, wasn't he?
great question dunk
can any of the gun lovers answer this one?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13