guns and bullets

aerial

This was in my news paper today...
If guns kill people, Then cars drive drunk, pencils misspell words, and spoons made Opra fat!

usamamasan1

dunkman wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

if guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk and spoons make people fat. :P

did you copy and past that tired expression from another site?

yep.

copied and pasted this too from a article about the gun show going on in Vegas now. I will never give up my guns and i am not a gun lover. I have guns because i need them.
For some, the right to bear arms represents a more personal battle.

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."

Hugh Freaking Dillon

HeidiJam wrote:

If somebody is going to kill someone they will do it regardless of weather there are guns or not. Some of you need to think logically instead of what your parties views are.

don't insult people with this "I disagree with you, therefore you are an unthinking liberal sheep". it hurts your credibility.

I disagree, unless you are talking about pre-meditated murder. In those cases, yes, they would find any means necessary in many cases, gun or not.

However, people kill people more easily with guns than with a more blunt instrument or nothing at all. you can't tell me that isn't fact.

haffajappa

If you shoot someone attacking you, they'll most likely just sue you in the end anyways.
(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)

usamamasan1

I have been to numerous training courses and hold a ccw from Nevada and Florida. This gives me reciprocity in most of the country. Often, in the very begining of class an instructor will ask "If your home is being invaded by a criminal and you have a shot at the perp, do you shoot them in the leg or go for a lethal shot". Turns out many people say they would go for the leg. WRONG ANSWER. A dead person doesn't lie. If you ever point your gun at ANYTHING, you should intend on destroying your target.

Cosmo

usamamasan1 wrote:

I have been to numerous training courses and hold a ccw from Nevada and Florida. This gives me reciprocity in most of the country. Often, in the very begining of class an instructor will ask "If your home is being invaded by a criminal and you have a shot at the perp, do you shoot them in the leg or go for a lethal shot". Turns out many people say they would go for the leg. WRONG ANSWER. A dead person doesn't lie. If you ever point your gun at ANYTHING, you should intend on destroying your target.

...
That is what I think most people don't understand... pointing your weapon means you must be willing to pull the trigger. In most cases, the ones who will brandish a gun are pussies.
I have personally never seen it... but, I had a friend in High School whose dad shot himself in the head in his house. It leaves a big fucking mess. He said he couldn't believe how much blood there was.
Oh... and the cops and fire department don't clean up the mess before they leave.

dunkman

aerial wrote:

This was in my news paper today...
If guns kill people, Then cars drive drunk, pencils misspell words, and spoons made Opra fat!

your newspaper can't spell Oprah properly so their funny 'argument' holds less water than an incontinent moth.

nuffingman

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."

Wouldn't pepper spray be a better idea?

dunkman

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]

I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"

JonnyPistachio

dunkman wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]

I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"

eyedclaar

haffajappa wrote:

If you shoot someone attacking you, they'll most likely just sue you in the end anyways.
(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)

Ex Special Forces, cop guy I know says that if you re going to shoot someone, make sure you kill them, so there is no their word against yours in court.

Blockhead

haffajappa wrote:

If you shoot someone attacking you, they'll most likely just sue you in the end anyways.
(The other thing Americans seem to love to do)

Dude, in almost every post I have seen you make, you make some snide remark agains american's/america... Why is that? Its extremely sad that you base everything in generalizations and nationality, WE are all humans and we should be working together, not trying to seperate our selves by country/sex/race/nation...
Why not try and make an intelligent post without making fun of american's...

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]

I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"

If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal. A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???

JonnyPistachio

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]

I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"

If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal. A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???

I cant speak for Dunk, but I saw his post as sarcasm. The whole "they will find a way to kill" argument is speculative and really is an easy way to dodge the fact that there is a problem.

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

usamamasan1 wrote:

Heetderks said she began carrying a gun every day after she was raped some years ago.

"I'm not physically strong enough to fight off a man," she said of her assailant. "If I had a gun, I would have killed him."[/b]

I'll refer you back to every pro-gun person on this thread.... "if she had wanted to kill him she would have found a way regardless"

If you can't detect the difference between her and a criminal, then there is a reason we are at page 29... She said that because she was raped and she feared for her life. Are you saying you would not try and kill someone who was trying to rape you or your wife??? There is a difference between killing for self protection and killing because you are a mentally unstable criminal. A criminal who is going to break the law, and intends on killing someone will do it weather they have a gun or a bat. Not some law-abiding citizen who was raped... How far can you guys streatch this to reach your point???

I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...

hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?

Blockhead

dunkman wrote:

I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...

hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?

hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...

dunkman

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...

hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?

hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...

you didnt answer the question... how far would he have got with just a bat? don't answer my question with a question.

look i know this is hard for you... but imagine that he was intent on crime and murder but that he didnt have a gun, instead he had a bat... and imagine that no other people on that campus had a gun either... how far would he have got... seeing as how you guys insist that "he would have just used something else".. if he had no guns what else could he have used to kill 32 people? a bat? a bat with nails on it? a bat with nails that have been dipped into poison on it?

all you are doing is taking a horrific story and using it as an example of justification to carry guns, without accepting that the ease in which that moron got a fucking gun was the actual problem... well that and his obvious mentalness... see we have mental people here in Britain as well... but getting a gun here in the UK is about as hard as getting an American to be objective and truthful about the ease in which they kill each other with legally acquired guns... yes, its that hard!

mikepegg44

dunkman wrote:

HeidiJam wrote:

dunkman wrote:

I was being facetious ... i was trying to highlight what a poor argument it is... just as I used sarcasm to highlight how vacuous the whole "pencil misspell words, spoons make people fat" arguments are...

hmmmm... wonder how far this fuckwit would have got with a bat?

hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...

you didnt answer the question... how far would he have got with just a bat? don't answer my question with a question.

look i know this is hard for you... but imagine that he was intent on crime and murder but that he didnt have a gun, instead he had a bat... and imagine that no other people on that campus had a gun either... how far would he have got... seeing as how you guys insist that "he would have just used something else".. if he had no guns what else could he have used to kill 32 people? a bat? a bat with nails on it? a bat with nails that have been dipped into poison on it?

all you are doing is taking a horrific story and using it as an example of justification to carry guns, without accepting that the ease in which that moron got a fucking gun was the actual problem... well that and his obvious mentalness... see we have mental people here in Britain as well... but getting a gun here in the UK is about as hard as getting an American to be objective and truthful about the ease in which they kill each other with legally acquired guns... yes, its that hard!

here's the thing, he would have gotten the guns anyway. Whether legally or illegally, it is easy to get them...it just would have been a little more expensive. You cannot use this guy as an example and then ignore the fact that no other people around him were allowed legally to carry weapons as an example of how bad guns can be. Especially if you are dealing in hypotheticals....why don't you ask, how far would he have gotten with a bat that had railroad ties jammed through it, or how far would he have gotten with a bull whip with broken glass attached to it, or how far would he have gotten with a bow and arrow with exploding tips like Rambo... hypotheticals are just that, so someone coming back at you with one is perfectly acceptable.
Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.

dunkman

mikepegg44 wrote:

Do we kill each other here at an alarming rate...the answer to that is obviously yes, but the answer to the reason why isn't simply the legality of guns, as pointed out earlier, Vermont is one of the most lax gun states in the union with an almost zero murder rate.

then the biggest reason for the huge scale of mass shootings in the States is what? you have more people with mental issues than anywhere else? Cos if it's not the legality of guns and it's not the lax gun laws and if "guns don't kill people, people do" then why is this? are you suggesting that the US has a much higher amount of people with mental disorders than every other nation in the world?

Cos we have mental people here... quite a lot of them actually... but what we don't have is the ability to reach behind our sofas and pull out a lethal handgun and shoot our employers after a bad day at the office.

eMMI

One thing that stuck with me while reading this thread again was the notion of "killing for self protection". Maybe I'm incredibly naive in thinking that self protection shouldn't make you a killer. Pepper spray was mentioned, you'd think that would be enough. Especially with all the comments about making sure that if you shoot someone, they die and don't stick around lying about what happened. :? Anyway, just writing out some of my thoughts.

HeidiJam wrote:

hmmmm.... wonder how far he would have gotten if other responsible law-abiding citizens were allowed to conceal carry. You keep bringing up areas that are gun free zones... There is probably a reason why someone who wants to kill alot of people is going to an area where no one is allowed to carry guns...

It's been mentioned here before that no mass-shootings have been prevented or cut short by someone carrying a weapon on them. (Except a security guard sort of person (?), I forget the details, but they were not a civilian.)