what is the population in Finland compared to the United States ?
I just can't imagine Finland being a place where most of the world is trying to become citizens
like here in the US .
and a pretty good percent of crimes are committed by foreigners, how many of the gun crimes are committed by foreigners in the US ?
what is the population in Finland compared to the United States ?
I just can't imagine Finland being a place where most of the world is trying to become citizens
like here in the US .
Godfather.
5,3 million, not a lot compared to the US.. The awesome thing about statistics though, is that they're per capita.
Most of the world may not be trying to become Finnish citizens (but there are a lot of foreign people living here, immigrants and refugees alike), but I'm sure most of the world isn't trying to become American citizens either.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
I figured most of you against handguns would enjoy this latest print by Fairey and his comments. Only problem is he chose to use statistics from studies that support his case when there are others that paint a different picture. If he mentioned this and not just thrown out numbers he would at least have some credibility.
what is the population in Finland compared to the United States ?
I just can't imagine Finland being a place where most of the world is trying to become citizens
like here in the US .
Godfather.
5,3 million, not a lot compared to the US.. The awesome thing about statistics though, is that they're per capita.
Most of the world may not be trying to become Finnish citizens (but there are a lot of foreign people living here, immigrants and refugees alike), but I'm sure most of the world isn't trying to become American citizens either.
man you sure wouldn't know it by watching the news or going to wal-mart .
I don't see how the fact that Russia is next to Finland has anything to do with this.
Anyway, are you comparing US and Russia? "In 2000 it was estimated that nearly 50% of the nation's economy was linked with organized crime." In a country where this kind of thing is and has been going on, of course crime and murder figures are gonna be through the roof.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
I don't see how the fact that Russia is next to Finland has anything to do with this.
Anyway, are you comparing US and Russia? "In 2000 it was estimated that nearly 50% of the nation's economy was linked with organized crime." In a country where this kind of thing is and has been going on, of course crime and murder figures are gonna be through the roof.
My son races BMX so we go to a lot of races and have had the pleasure of meeting the BMX gold medalist from Latvia (spelling ?) on many occasions at races and a great kid ta boot,his name is Maris Straumburges..
are you in Finland ? and do you know of this guy ?
what is the population in Finland compared to the United States ?
I just can't imagine Finland being a place where most of the world is trying to become citizens
like here in the US .
and a pretty good percent of crimes are committed by foreigners, how many of the gun crimes are committed by foreigners in the US ?
Godfather.
don't be an idiot man... thats almost xenophobic.
also it doesnt matter the population of Finland compared to the US.... its per capita...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't see how the fact that Russia is next to Finland has anything to do with this.
Anyway, are you comparing US and Russia? "In 2000 it was estimated that nearly 50% of the nation's economy was linked with organized crime." In a country where this kind of thing is and has been going on, of course crime and murder figures are gonna be through the roof.
My son races BMX so we go to a lot of races and have had the pleasure of meeting the BMX gold medalist from Latvia (spelling ?) on many occasions at races and a great kid ta boot,his name is Maris Straumburges..
are you in Finland ? and do you know of this guy ?
Godfather.
my wife likes Mexican food... do you know the guy down in Monterrey in Mexico who won Best Taco 2009?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
dunky...come on kid, did I hurt yer feelings...oooooo uncle G is so so sorry....taco's in Monterey ?..ha ha ha I kinda thought you might be from the San Fransisco area or at least spent the night there once or twice..
sorry if I hurt yer feelings young fellaaaa.
I don't see how the fact that Russia is next to Finland has anything to do with this.
Anyway, are you comparing US and Russia? "In 2000 it was estimated that nearly 50% of the nation's economy was linked with organized crime." In a country where this kind of thing is and has been going on, of course crime and murder figures are gonna be through the roof.
My son races BMX so we go to a lot of races and have had the pleasure of meeting the BMX gold medalist from Latvia (spelling ?) on many occasions at races and a great kid ta boot,his name is Maris Straumburges..
are you in Finland ? and do you know of this guy ?
Godfather.
Yes (which I thought would be obvious) and no, respectively.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
me not knowing anything about Finland other than Latvia is right at the border I was just curious.
Godfather.
You may or may not be thinking of Russia, Estonia, Norway or Sweden. Latvia shares no border with Finland and it's not that close.
"Don't be faint-hearted, I have a solution! We shall go and commandeer some small craft, then drift at leisure until we happen upon another ideal place for our waterside supper with riparian entertainments."
me not knowing anything about Finland other than Latvia is right at the border I was just curious.
Godfather.
You may or may not be thinking of Russia, Estonia, Norway or Sweden. Latvia shares no border with Finland and it's not that close.
I thought it was at the bottom center of Finland, my mistake sorry about that.
Godfather.
the american sense of geography in one post!!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
is that your wee face looking for Iowa? give Godfather his due... at least he has heard of Latvia... you probably thought it was a cake.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
plus its hard to be funny when 9 year old kids are being shot in the face with a legally acquired gun
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
how many people are killed in stabbings? with a kitchen knife? should they take away all kitchen knives? Guns don't kill people, people kill people...
The difference is, hand guns are designed to kill people, kitchen knives, cars, baseball bats, are designed to serve other purposes.
(without time to read thru 40 pages...)
No. Guns are designed to throw metal "rounds" in a very accurate direction.
I was captain of the rifle team in high school. We would shoot in competition in standing, kneeling and prone on a total of 30 targets, and competed against other high schools in our county in New York. Its a skilled sport.
Are you saying that the county (in New York, near NYC) gave children instruments which were explicitly "designed to kill people"? Or perhaps things are much more nuanced than you choose to acknowledge. Your description seems more accurate to the description of a pipe bomb.
(and just to add depth to my view, I've been a vegetarian for 20 years, and I am anti-hunting)
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Ya know Hoff it's funny i grew up thinking the same as you, my dad was a correction officer, had 3 guns around the house, went range shooting a few times from 16 to 18, enjoyed it, was pretty good. But my dad always repeated guns are ment to kill, it was like some credo. So i'm on the fence.
Ya know Hoff it's funny i grew up thinking the same as you, my dad was a correction officer, had 3 guns around the house, went range shooting a few times from 16 to 18, enjoyed it, was pretty good. But my dad always repeated guns are ment to kill, it was like some credo. So i'm on the fence.
But, ask yourself, did he tell you this when you were an adult, or a minor? I'm guessing just when you were a kid, and not an adult (though you can confirm).
We tell kids that the Easter Bunny is real. That Santa can see you at all times. ...and that's lying/exaggerating for fun reasons. No reason to think that the same type of tactics wouldn't be used for other more important reasons.
I will probably tell my kids the same thing... but it's to scare the be-jebus out of them. You definitely have to respect the power of what a loaded gun can do. The same way I've told my niece that she can only see my 20' long saw in my frame shop if I carry her in there, because it can easily cut her hands off. ...but is my saw bad? Nope. ...are guns bad? Nope.
My father though had many guns. Like a half-dozen rifles, a handful of pistols. I think he had a machine gun for a period of time too. He didn't shoot them too much. He mostly liked just having them. When we were kids, we could tell when he had been cleaning them because walking in our footie-pajamas our feet would slip out from under us, because of the ultra slippery floor from silicone spray film got on the floor.
But he told me if I was ever curious, or wanted to handle them, to just ask him and I could handle them when I was with him. Guns are 100% benign. It's the bullets that can harm. Just like a ziplock bag is benign... but its the cocaine that will hurt you. So, under supervision with no bullets anywhere, a gun is about as dangerous as a table-leg.
So, for people who are careful, knowledgeable and respectful of guns, they CAN be kept safely. Just like my huge framing saw, or kitchen knives, and other similar items.
...but for those that don't want them in their homes, kudos to them.
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Yeah your right, its the culture :roll: I have my shotgun for one reason only, Home protection. I guess thats not good enough reason for your some of you...
Yes the gun death rate concerns me, and I am also for regulation and annual renewals ( i have said before) But I think the way the culture is here (especially inner city) is the real issue.
so, is it culture, or is it not culture, Heidi?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
quote from emmi; "Wanting to change the world is a bad thing now? Fair enough, not everyone wants to change it for the better, but some (dare I say most) people do! People want to puts laws in place that could save lives and you (not specifically only you) just sit there and dismiss it with a simple "bad guys are gonna do bad stuff" or "don't take away my rights!".
you have no idea what you're talking about(not specifically only you)this ain't the high school student council.
it's (not specifically only you) people with your way of thinking that choke this country with dumb-ass laws that do little to solve any problem and you(not specifically only you) sit there and say "we will be safe from bad guys if we make another law" or "please make another law to limit my rights a little more"
ub-un-fucking-be-liev-aaable-yo-dam-self !......
emmi
please do not listen to old people who are afraid of change
you do have an idea of what you are talking about
stricter gun laws would not "choke this country" like the gun-worshipers seem to think it would
some people do not seem to realize that some laws have made us safer from "bad guys"
some people, who fear change, believe that if they had been born in a different country,
they would not be able to own a gun,
but because they were born in america,
it is their "god"-given right
ed to the rescue !.......good boy ed.
now run along.
p.s...having fun yet ?
Godfather.
what are you afraid of as far as rationally debating this or any issue with me?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
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WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
how many people are killed in stabbings? with a kitchen knife? should they take away all kitchen knives? Guns don't kill people, people kill people...
The difference is, hand guns are designed to kill people, kitchen knives, cars, baseball bats, are designed to serve other purposes.
(without time to read thru 40 pages...)
No. Guns are designed to throw metal "rounds" in a very accurate direction.
Well.. when the first firearm was 'designed', it wasn't quite like that. Of course, the word design has a couple of main interpretations, both of which are accurate in the context of firearm design.
Your definition = the concept of the item (ie a container of some kind, filled with a propellant of some kind and a 'round', which could be metal, stone, etc.).
What is generally meant with firearms are 'designed to kill' is the 'design = purpose' - you start with an outcome and you 'design' around that. Dictionary definition " design - purpose: an anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions; ....."it was created with the conscious aim of answering immediate needs"...
These 'immediate' needs were warfare, ie killing more effectively.
So whilst firearms were then used for other purposes over the centuries, hunting being another main use (though this is still to kill more effectively). Target shooting is only a very recent practice.
I'm not ed,it just seems that you have a habit of trying to force your views on me,we seem the share the same beliefs on God but we differ slightly on most other things...maybe we don't and there is a miscommunication between us ? I don't know.
Godfather.
dunk and B this aint the white house,it's all good fun and a little good learning...thats it.
Culture, maybe ? But it is definitely GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY OR I WILL SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE.
Human's snap for all kinds of reasons. I figure that is the argument someone on the side of pro guns can make meaning people kill people. Guns don't just kill people. Let's say that is the case, people kill people, there is no reason that guns should be available the way they are. I'm sorry, but can someone tell me the last time they used a machine gun or a magnum 57 to kill a deer ?
1996: Toronto 1998: Barrie 2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal 2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2006: Toronto X2 2009: Toronto 2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton 2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula 2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo 2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit 2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2 2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2022: Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023: Chicago X2 2024: New York X2
The difference is, hand guns are designed to kill people, kitchen knives, cars, baseball bats, are designed to serve other purposes.
No. Guns are designed to throw metal "rounds" in a very accurate direction.
Well.. when the first firearm was 'designed', it wasn't quite like that. Of course, the word design has a couple of main interpretations, both of which are accurate in the context of firearm design.
Your definition = the concept of the item (ie a container of some kind, filled with a propellant of some kind and a 'round', which could be metal, stone, etc.).
What is generally meant with firearms are 'designed to kill' is the 'design = purpose' - you start with an outcome and you 'design' around that. Dictionary definition " design - purpose: an anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions; ....."it was created with the conscious aim of answering immediate needs"...
These 'immediate' needs were warfare, ie killing more effectively.
So whilst firearms were then used for other purposes over the centuries, hunting being another main use (though this is still to kill more effectively). Target shooting is only a very recent practice.
Target shooting is not only a very recent practice. Unless you consider 130+ years or so "very recent". Skilled target shooting was a sport that began in the late 1800's.
And as far as guns starting off as tools only designed to kill, yes I'd agree with you.
You don't have to bring in the definition of the word "design". But since you did, you'll notice my use of the word "design" is the present tense. Not the past tense.
Guns in their infancy were designed exclusively to kill, and that certainly is part of their design today. But just as humans evolved, so has the technology, and use. Nowadays, many (probably most) enthusiasts will bring their rifle/pistol to a range and hone their skill of carefully aiming, counting their heartbeats and steadying their hand, and putting a hole in a small circle on a piece of paper from a long distance, with similar skill and enjoyment as a pool-player taking pride in their practice of getting the 4 ball in the center pocket going around the 8 ball.
I believe people who are uneducated about skilled shooting are thinking about an adrenaline rush or something... and I'm sure there are some people who "get off" on that, similar to how some people "get off" cutting their skin with razor blades. But in real skilled shooting, you have to calm your body down, slow down your breathing, and carefully aim at a tiny dot on a piece of paper 50 feet away, and shoot in between heartbeats.... or sometimes, shoot at the moment of a heart beat, if your heartbeat is just barely the "nudge" to get you lined up. The closest experience in my life to compare it to is Yoga.
Going back to your post above, your point could more easily be made about knives.
Guns: Invented about 900 years ago, though the first hand-held ones invented about 700 years ago.
Knives: Invented more than 2.5 MILLION years ago
Knives, like guns, were ALSO invented as instruments to hunt/kill with. Given the scale of history, which do you think has a longer history as use as a "weapon"? Yet, which is the one that some on here demonize?
Post edited by CJMST3K on
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Comments
I just can't imagine Finland being a place where most of the world is trying to become citizens
like here in the US .
and a pretty good percent of crimes are committed by foreigners, how many of the gun crimes are committed by foreigners in the US ?
Godfather.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Russia
Godfather.
5,3 million, not a lot compared to the US.. The awesome thing about statistics though, is that they're per capita.
Most of the world may not be trying to become Finnish citizens (but there are a lot of foreign people living here, immigrants and refugees alike), but I'm sure most of the world isn't trying to become American citizens either.
http://obeygiant.com/headlines/2nd-amen ... more-12717
outside discussion of stats on DHU
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
man you sure wouldn't know it by watching the news or going to wal-mart .
Godfather.
I don't see how the fact that Russia is next to Finland has anything to do with this.
Anyway, are you comparing US and Russia? "In 2000 it was estimated that nearly 50% of the nation's economy was linked with organized crime." In a country where this kind of thing is and has been going on, of course crime and murder figures are gonna be through the roof.
My son races BMX so we go to a lot of races and have had the pleasure of meeting the BMX gold medalist from Latvia (spelling ?) on many occasions at races and a great kid ta boot,his name is Maris Straumburges..
are you in Finland ? and do you know of this guy ?
Godfather.
don't be an idiot man... thats almost xenophobic.
also it doesnt matter the population of Finland compared to the US.... its per capita...
my wife likes Mexican food... do you know the guy down in Monterrey in Mexico who won Best Taco 2009?
sorry if I hurt yer feelings young fellaaaa.
Godfather.
Yes (which I thought would be obvious) and no, respectively.
Godfather.
You may or may not be thinking of Russia, Estonia, Norway or Sweden.
I thought it was at the bottom center of Finland, my mistake sorry about that.
Godfather.
Godfather.
the american sense of geography in one post!!
:roll:
is that your wee face looking for Iowa? give Godfather his due... at least he has heard of Latvia... you probably thought it was a cake.
i remember when you used to be funny
i dont even remember you.
plus its hard to be funny when 9 year old kids are being shot in the face with a legally acquired gun
i agree, but why the blanket statement about U.S.A?
(without time to read thru 40 pages...)
No. Guns are designed to throw metal "rounds" in a very accurate direction.
I was captain of the rifle team in high school. We would shoot in competition in standing, kneeling and prone on a total of 30 targets, and competed against other high schools in our county in New York. Its a skilled sport.
Are you saying that the county (in New York, near NYC) gave children instruments which were explicitly "designed to kill people"? Or perhaps things are much more nuanced than you choose to acknowledge. Your description seems more accurate to the description of a pipe bomb.
(and just to add depth to my view, I've been a vegetarian for 20 years, and I am anti-hunting)
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But, ask yourself, did he tell you this when you were an adult, or a minor? I'm guessing just when you were a kid, and not an adult (though you can confirm).
We tell kids that the Easter Bunny is real. That Santa can see you at all times. ...and that's lying/exaggerating for fun reasons. No reason to think that the same type of tactics wouldn't be used for other more important reasons.
I will probably tell my kids the same thing... but it's to scare the be-jebus out of them. You definitely have to respect the power of what a loaded gun can do. The same way I've told my niece that she can only see my 20' long saw in my frame shop if I carry her in there, because it can easily cut her hands off. ...but is my saw bad? Nope. ...are guns bad? Nope.
My father though had many guns. Like a half-dozen rifles, a handful of pistols. I think he had a machine gun for a period of time too. He didn't shoot them too much. He mostly liked just having them. When we were kids, we could tell when he had been cleaning them because walking in our footie-pajamas our feet would slip out from under us, because of the ultra slippery floor from silicone spray film got on the floor.
But he told me if I was ever curious, or wanted to handle them, to just ask him and I could handle them when I was with him. Guns are 100% benign. It's the bullets that can harm. Just like a ziplock bag is benign... but its the cocaine that will hurt you. So, under supervision with no bullets anywhere, a gun is about as dangerous as a table-leg.
So, for people who are careful, knowledgeable and respectful of guns, they CAN be kept safely. Just like my huge framing saw, or kitchen knives, and other similar items.
...but for those that don't want them in their homes, kudos to them.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
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from this thread:
so, is it culture, or is it not culture, Heidi?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
what are you afraid of as far as rationally debating this or any issue with me?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Well.. when the first firearm was 'designed', it wasn't quite like that. Of course, the word design has a couple of main interpretations, both of which are accurate in the context of firearm design.
Your definition = the concept of the item (ie a container of some kind, filled with a propellant of some kind and a 'round', which could be metal, stone, etc.).
What is generally meant with firearms are 'designed to kill' is the 'design = purpose' - you start with an outcome and you 'design' around that. Dictionary definition " design - purpose: an anticipated outcome that is intended or that guides your planned actions; ....."it was created with the conscious aim of answering immediate needs"...
These 'immediate' needs were warfare, ie killing more effectively.
So whilst firearms were then used for other purposes over the centuries, hunting being another main use (though this is still to kill more effectively). Target shooting is only a very recent practice.
Godfather.
dunk and B this aint the white house,it's all good fun and a little good learning...thats it.
Human's snap for all kinds of reasons. I figure that is the argument someone on the side of pro guns can make meaning people kill people. Guns don't just kill people. Let's say that is the case, people kill people, there is no reason that guns should be available the way they are. I'm sorry, but can someone tell me the last time they used a machine gun or a magnum 57 to kill a deer ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGp0GAd1d1s&feature=fvsr
1998: Barrie
2000: Montreal, Toronto, Auburn Hills
2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal
2004: Boston X2, Grand Rapids
2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
2006: Toronto X2
2009: Toronto
2011: PJ20, Montreal, Toronto X2, Hamilton
2012: Manchester X2, Amsterdam X2, Prague, Berlin X2, Philadelphia, Missoula
2013: Pittsburg, Buffalo
2014: Milan, Trieste, Vienna, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo, Detroit
2016: Ottawa, Toronto X2
2018: Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Barcelona
2023: Chicago X2
2024: New York X2
Target shooting is not only a very recent practice. Unless you consider 130+ years or so "very recent". Skilled target shooting was a sport that began in the late 1800's.
And as far as guns starting off as tools only designed to kill, yes I'd agree with you.
You don't have to bring in the definition of the word "design". But since you did, you'll notice my use of the word "design" is the present tense. Not the past tense.
Guns in their infancy were designed exclusively to kill, and that certainly is part of their design today. But just as humans evolved, so has the technology, and use. Nowadays, many (probably most) enthusiasts will bring their rifle/pistol to a range and hone their skill of carefully aiming, counting their heartbeats and steadying their hand, and putting a hole in a small circle on a piece of paper from a long distance, with similar skill and enjoyment as a pool-player taking pride in their practice of getting the 4 ball in the center pocket going around the 8 ball.
I believe people who are uneducated about skilled shooting are thinking about an adrenaline rush or something... and I'm sure there are some people who "get off" on that, similar to how some people "get off" cutting their skin with razor blades. But in real skilled shooting, you have to calm your body down, slow down your breathing, and carefully aim at a tiny dot on a piece of paper 50 feet away, and shoot in between heartbeats.... or sometimes, shoot at the moment of a heart beat, if your heartbeat is just barely the "nudge" to get you lined up. The closest experience in my life to compare it to is Yoga.
Going back to your post above, your point could more easily be made about knives.
Guns: Invented about 900 years ago, though the first hand-held ones invented about 700 years ago.
Knives: Invented more than 2.5 MILLION years ago
Knives, like guns, were ALSO invented as instruments to hunt/kill with. Given the scale of history, which do you think has a longer history as use as a "weapon"? Yet, which is the one that some on here demonize?
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