Bush's torture admission is a dismal moment for democracy

Godfather.

pjfan021 wrote:

if american troops were being captured and tortured, people would be up in arms over this shit. America is never held responsible when it comes to shit like this.

our troops have been captured and tortured , our people have been beheaded and tapes sent to America so they could brag about it...where have you been ?

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

pjfan021 wrote:

if american troops were being captured and tortured, people would be up in arms over this shit. America is never held responsible when it comes to shit like this.

our troops have been captured and tortured , our people have been beheaded and tapes sent to America so they could brag about it...where have you been ?

Godfather.

what troops have been beheaded on videotape???

contractors yes, but they are money whores anyway.

UpSideDown

81 wrote:

we really need an isolationism period. long term it's not the answer, but maybe for 5-10 years we just pull everything back into the country, tariff the hell out of foreign products, and say good luck world.

Agreed

BinauralJam

UpSideDown wrote:

81 wrote:

we really need an isolationism period. long term it's not the answer, but maybe for 5-10 years we just pull everything back into the country, tariff the hell out of foreign products, and say good luck world.

Agreed

This will never happen, our economic and foreign policies are based on Free Trade, it's one of our insidous ways of insuring peace, get a foreign country ( China) so economically dependant on you, they would never think about attacking you, just too much money to lose.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

pjfan021 wrote:

if american troops were being captured and tortured, people would be up in arms over this shit. America is never held responsible when it comes to shit like this.

our troops have been captured and tortured , our people have been beheaded and tapes sent to America so they could brag about it...where have you been ?

Godfather.

what troops have been beheaded on videotape???

contractors yes, but they are money whores anyway.

ahhhh but it's ok to kill a money whore...double standards uh Truth, I'll bet the boys from PJ make quite a bit of money so does that make them money whores also and beheading them would be ok as well ?
our troops through out our history have been captured and tortured you know that don't you ?

Godfather.

TriumphantAngel

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

The country was attacked by a group of terrorists headquartered in Afghanistan, so the president responded by invading Iraq (after making up a reason to invade Iraq). He ignored a report that specifically said Bin Laden was planning a terrorist attack on American soil. He also ignored the UN investigators who found no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. The entire thing has been one mismanaged clusterfuck from day one until present day - how is that "what needed to be done?" Bush did nothing but take a bad situation and make it worse. Thanks to him, Al Qaeda now has a presence in Iraq (where it didn't before), and Bin Laden is still on the run in the hills of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

It is still hardly ever mentioned that 15 / 19 of the Hijackers were actually Saudis. It is also hardly mentioned that if there were some serious weapons in Iraq, that there's a good chance that they may have come from the US in the first place when they were considered allies of the States in the 80s.

This is why interventionism is a horrible idea. Unholy alliances-- one day another country is friends with the US, the next day, enemies. You can fault the founding fathers for many things, but they had some great ideas as well. Washington hated on political parties and entangling alliances. This country and the rest of the world would be a lot better off without either.

i agree with this.

the recent 60 billion arms deal that the Obama administration recently unveiled with the Saudi's is a fairly good indication that for now they are very good friends.

it's all part of the empire building.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

ahhhh but it's ok to kill a money whore...double standards uh Truth, I'll bet the boys from PJ make quite a bit of money so does that make them money whores also and beheading them would be ok as well ?
our troops through out our history have been captured and tortured you know that don't you ?

Godfather.

do you ever think our troops have been captured and killed because they represent our government and our foreign policy? a lot of people around the world hate us for our foreign policy and take it out on our troops if they get a chance. i'm not saying it is right, because it isn't.

it is not a double standard. and no it is not ok to kill contractors either. i just have no sympathy for them when they chose to go over there and take a job paying 5-6 times what a soldier makes to work for companies like blackwater, kbr, and haliburton. they knew the risk of capture and they had no business being over there in the first place.

i am not sure where you are going with pearl jam needing beheading. it makes no sense to me, because pearl jam has advocated peace, no war, and has been vocal about their anti-war beliefs. they have made no money by going over there and have not profitted from any defense corporations. so it is apples to oranges.

JonnyPistachio

Godfather. wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

our troops have been captured and tortured , our people have been beheaded and tapes sent to America so they could brag about it...where have you been ?

Godfather.

what troops have been beheaded on videotape???

contractors yes, but they are money whores anyway.

ahhhh but it's ok to kill a money whore...double standards uh Truth, I'll bet the boys from PJ make quite a bit of money so does that make them money whores also and beheading them would be ok as well ?
our troops through out our history have been captured and tortured you know that don't you ?

Godfather.

Wow, you're on fire today. First we're limp wristed, and we're whinners, and now this!?

WEll, this thread isnt really about torture of US troops. It was about Bushs admission that the US used torture during HIS presidency. I like to stand up for my country, but only when they are acting logically in my opinion. Thats why we're allowed to ask questions and vote people out. How George ever got voted in a second time i'll never underst...oh wait, nevermind, I forgot...

cajunkiwi

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

The country was attacked by a group of terrorists headquartered in Afghanistan, so the president responded by invading Iraq (after making up a reason to invade Iraq). He ignored a report that specifically said Bin Laden was planning a terrorist attack on American soil. He also ignored the UN investigators who found no evidence of WMDs in Iraq. The entire thing has been one mismanaged clusterfuck from day one until present day - how is that "what needed to be done?" Bush did nothing but take a bad situation and make it worse. Thanks to him, Al Qaeda now has a presence in Iraq (where it didn't before), and Bin Laden is still on the run in the hills of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

It is still hardly ever mentioned that 15 / 19 of the Hijackers were actually Saudis. It is also hardly mentioned that if there were some serious weapons in Iraq, that there's a good chance that they may have come from the US in the first place when they were considered allies of the States in the 80s.

This is why interventionism is a horrible idea. Unholy alliances-- one day another country is friends with the US, the next day, enemies. You can fault the founding fathers for many things, but they had some great ideas as well. Washington hated on political parties and entangling alliances. This country and the rest of the world would be a lot better off without either.

Did you ever see the movie Charlie Wilson's War? There was a great bit at the end - it may have never happened and may be 100% Hollywood fiction, but it was great nonetheless - where Charlie Wilson warns people that if they don't clean up in Afghanistan and spend a bit of time and money building up the infrastructure then it would one day bite them on the ass.

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ahhhh but it's ok to kill a money whore...double standards uh Truth, I'll bet the boys from PJ make quite a bit of money so does that make them money whores also and beheading them would be ok as well ?
our troops through out our history have been captured and tortured you know that don't you ?

Godfather.

do you ever think our troops have been captured and killed because they represent our government and our foreign policy? a lot of people around the world hate us for our foreign policy and take it out on our troops if they get a chance. i'm not saying it is right, because it isn't.

it is not a double standard. and no it is not ok to kill contractors either. i just have no sympathy for them when they chose to go over there and take a job paying 5-6 times what a soldier makes to work for companies like blackwater, kbr, and haliburton. they knew the risk of capture and they had no business being over there in the first place.

i am not sure where you are going with pearl jam needing beheading. it makes no sense to me, because pearl jam has advocated peace, no war, and has been vocal about their anti-war beliefs. they have made no money by going over there and have not profitted from any defense corporations. so it is apples to oranges.

I was just making a point about money and those that earn it, and I was just giving you a hard time for the "money whore comment" just joking with ya Truth.

Godfather.

VINNY GOOMBA

What I've never understood is how people captured from Afghanistan can be differentiated as insurgents, terrorists, or simply people who are protecting what is theirs and fighting against an occupying force. It's not like these people carry around 13 forms of ID like we do here in the states, and many of their names really aren't all that different from person to person. Considering how there are only a couple of thousand of them that have any real plans of trying to hurt other people, how can American intelligence ever actually tell if these guys are even worthy of interrogation in the first place?

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ahhhh but it's ok to kill a money whore...double standards uh Truth, I'll bet the boys from PJ make quite a bit of money so does that make them money whores also and beheading them would be ok as well ?
our troops through out our history have been captured and tortured you know that don't you ?

Godfather.

do you ever think our troops have been captured and killed because they represent our government and our foreign policy? a lot of people around the world hate us for our foreign policy and take it out on our troops if they get a chance. i'm not saying it is right, because it isn't.

it is not a double standard. and no it is not ok to kill contractors either. i just have no sympathy for them when they chose to go over there and take a job paying 5-6 times what a soldier makes to work for companies like blackwater, kbr, and haliburton. they knew the risk of capture and they had no business being over there in the first place.

i am not sure where you are going with pearl jam needing beheading. it makes no sense to me, because pearl jam has advocated peace, no war, and has been vocal about their anti-war beliefs. they have made no money by going over there and have not profitted from any defense corporations. so it is apples to oranges.

I was just making a point about money and those that earn it, and I was just giving you a hard time for the "money whore comment" just joking with ya Chad.

Godfather.

i see what you are saying. i disagree with the analogy but i understand what you are trying to say.

btw, my name is not chad.

eyedclaar

Just in case I have been unfairly lumped into a certain category on this train, let me make it clear to the American people that I do not agree with the Godfather on anything outside of the now dead DP thread, and even then, for much different and articulated reasons.

That is all.

Godfather.

Sorry Truth name mix up.

Godfather.

the wolf

81 wrote:

it's not being soft. it's being a better person/country than these people. we just make it easy for them to hate us.

we really need an isolationism period. long term it's not the answer, but maybe for 5-10 years we just pull everything back into the country, tariff the hell out of foreign products, and say good luck world.

I agree 100% with everything said here,... I've been saying this for years. The rest of the world don't want us in their business,... so lets get out of it.

It wouldn't take long for SOME parts of the world to beg us to "stick our noses" back in their business.

edit: we just need to take care of our own shit right now.

Godfather.

eyedclaar wrote:

Just in case I have been unfairly lumped into a certain category on this train, let me make it clear to the American people that I do not agree with the Godfather on anything outside of the now dead DP thread, and even then, for much different and articulated reasons.

That is all.

does this mean you're not voting for me on the 2012 presidential election write in ballot ?
that's ok, I know sometimes great men are over looked.

Godfather.

polaris_x

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

What I've never understood is how people captured from Afghanistan can be differentiated as insurgents, terrorists, or simply people who are protecting what is theirs and fighting against an occupying force. It's not like these people carry around 13 forms of ID like we do here in the states, and many of their names really aren't all that different from person to person. Considering how there are only a couple of thousand of them that have any real plans of trying to hurt other people, how can American intelligence ever actually tell if these guys are even worthy of interrogation in the first place?

they don't have to ... everyone over there is fair game under US discretion ... you guys roll up and kill whoever you want without consequence ... that is the bitter truth ...

all in the name of greed ...

Cosmo

Godfather. wrote:

ohhh my gosh...SO FREAKIN WHAT !!!!
WHAAAAAAA WHAAAAAA !!!!!! whinners and crybabys wake up !

Godfather.

...
Here's a deal...
We will shut up already about things Bush acutally did... if you shut the fuck up already about thing that you believe President Obama does.
Deal?

the wolf

polaris_x wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

What I've never understood is how people captured from Afghanistan can be differentiated as insurgents, terrorists, or simply people who are protecting what is theirs and fighting against an occupying force. It's not like these people carry around 13 forms of ID like we do here in the states, and many of their names really aren't all that different from person to person. Considering how there are only a couple of thousand of them that have any real plans of trying to hurt other people, how can American intelligence ever actually tell if these guys are even worthy of interrogation in the first place?

they don't have to ... everyone over there is fair game under US discretion ... you guys roll up and kill whoever you want without consequence ... that is the bitter truth ...

all in the name of greed ...

last time I checked, "us guys" were not the only ones rolling up and killing whoever we want.

Godfather.

Cosmo wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

ohhh my gosh...SO FREAKIN WHAT !!!!
WHAAAAAAA WHAAAAAA !!!!!! whinners and crybabys wake up !

Godfather.

...
Here's a deal...
We will shut up already about things Bush acutally did... if you shut the fuck up already about thing that you believe President Obama does.
Deal?

Cosmo that wasn't very nice, I don't think nobama does anything...what has he done ?
did I hurt your feelings buddy...I'm sorry, all better now ?

Godfather.