Shut up and fix it...

FiveB247x

Let me ask you this gimme: Would you prefer the Dems played "dirty" and pushed their own policies through as the Repubs did during the Bush era just in order to get policy passed or do you think it's better to keep the high-ground and give the illusion of open democracy working properly as Obama has attempted to do even though it has cost him and the Dems reforms and policies not being enacted? Also, a good deal of these filibusters could have been deterred by Obama and the Dems doing a better job of public relations and information to the public before the issues were up to bat rather than letting the Rep minority set the debate and dismiss or misinform the public as to ease their grandstanding as a legitimate action.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i know you know how the government works. i am asking you to concede the point that the gop filibuster stonewalled any progress and any votes on most of the legislation in the senate. you say the dems could have gotten it done, yet how can you do anything when you need 60 damn votes to even continue debate on something? let alone bring it to an up or down final vote. there was no way for the dems to get thos 60 votes, it is as if the gop were sitting there with their fingers in their ears yelling "I CAN"T HEAR YOU!!!" for no other reason than to stop debate and move on to the next thing. they blocked everything, and most things that did pass had only 1-2 gop votes, even after thier ammendments were added in the final bill. you can not do anything unilaterally in our system of government, and when one side absolutely REFUSES to engage the majority, it is a major problem.

inmytree

FiveB247x wrote:

Let me ask you this gimme: Would you prefer the Dems played "dirty" and pushed their own policies through as the Repubs did during the Bush era just in order to get policy passed or do you think it's better to keep the high-ground and give the illusion of open democracy working properly as Obama has attempted to do even though it has cost him and the Dems reforms and policies not being enacted? Also, a good deal of these filibusters could have been deterred by Obama and the Dems doing a better job of public relations and information to the public before the issues were up to bat rather than letting the Rep minority set the debate and dismiss or misinform the public as to ease their grandstanding as a legitimate action.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i know you know how the government works. i am asking you to concede the point that the gop filibuster stonewalled any progress and any votes on most of the legislation in the senate. you say the dems could have gotten it done, yet how can you do anything when you need 60 damn votes to even continue debate on something? let alone bring it to an up or down final vote. there was no way for the dems to get thos 60 votes, it is as if the gop were sitting there with their fingers in their ears yelling "I CAN"T HEAR YOU!!!" for no other reason than to stop debate and move on to the next thing. they blocked everything, and most things that did pass had only 1-2 gop votes, even after thier ammendments were added in the final bill. you can not do anything unilaterally in our system of government, and when one side absolutely REFUSES to engage the majority, it is a major problem.

at this point, I'm voting for dirty...

as for the dems doing a better job...I don't disagree, but it seems no matter what they did...ol' Phil E. Buster showed up...I wondered why the dems didn't make them actually stand up and filibuster..

FiveB247x

I completely agree on both counts. Looking back and knowing our system is as broken as it is, it sadly is more important to push through the policies in hope they hold compared to trying to get the other side to conform or agree. It's why we now how watered down healthcare reform (and I use that term lightly) rather than universal or something similar. And yes make them get off their behinds and actually speak and work for their filibuster.

inmytree wrote:

at this point, I'm voting for dirty...

as for the dems doing a better job...I don't disagree, but it seems no matter what they did...ol' Phil E. Buster showed up...I wondered why the dems didn't make them actually stand up and filibuster..

gimmesometruth27

FiveB247x wrote:

Let me ask you this gimme: Would you prefer the Dems played "dirty" and pushed their own policies through as the Repubs did during the Bush era just in order to get policy passed or do you think it's better to keep the high-ground and give the illusion of open democracy working properly as Obama has attempted to do even though it has cost him and the Dems reforms and policies not being enacted? Also, a good deal of these filibusters could have been deterred by Obama and the Dems doing a better job of public relations and information to the public before the issues were up to bat rather than letting the Rep minority set the debate and dismiss or misinform the public as to ease their grandstanding as a legitimate action.

no, i would have preferred for the dems to show a fucking spine and taken a stand on what they believed was best for the country. we had a chance to give the country universal health care, but then the dems took that option off of the table, then we were given a "public option" that the dems were not firm on, so they compromised again and that bill barely even passed without a public option after all of that haggling. they failed to be strong and effective leaders and they failed to communicate their goals and what they wanted to do. they allowed douchbags like beck and limbaugh to spread disinformation to undermine them, and all of that went unchecked. politics is a dirty game these days. you can fight even if you have no idea what to do like the gop did, or you can stand up for what you believe in, take the debate to your opponents and make them see and respect your side. the dems did not do that. what good is a filibuster if even when your side invokes it they still will not negotiate? the filibuster is the biggest dick move cop out in american politics. if they are going to invoke that then they need to stand up and read moby dick all day to waste time like they used to. i would have rather had the dems go down with a fight than with the whimper they went out with. they should have explained WHY nothing has gotten done and pointed fingers just like the gop does. the average american does not care about procedure, they look to point the finger of blame, and that is what happened 3 days ago....

cajunkiwi

cincybearcat wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

inmytree wrote:

people stood and shouted that they knew the best route...I'm simply asking them shut up and do it...why is that so bad...?

i agree with this statement.

Believe it or not, I agree with you.

Bipartisanship!

FiveB247x

I agree.. the old adage used to be the Reps are the party of bad ideas and the Dems of no ideas... of recent it's more like the Dems have turned into the party with no backbone to stand up for any ideas. The flounder on everything to maintain the status quo as they worry about losing votes and being ostracized by the Reps and the right. And that really goes to show you how centric our political parties truly are. Lastly, Tuesday's election results are more a sign of the the failures or displeasure of the Dems and left being used as a scapegoat by the right and reps through fear and mostly ignorance. Anyone who proclaims either one of these parties to stand for the practical and obvious reforms the tea party people have claimed is foolish and delusional beyond belief. Whether it's taxes, economic reform, smaller government or the rest of these obvious and blatantly ignored issues, the reps nor the dems will ever pass real legislation to move in that direction. Then you also add in the ignorant aspects of these people who feel we're turning into socialism or something, it says more to the fact how out of touch and dumb our society really is. People keep looking to government and the parties for answers, perhaps it's time to recognize the citizens who continually put these self interested politians in office to work for a very broken system are to blame, not the other way around. The public is dumb and sucks and therefore leads to poor government, not the other way around.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

no, i would have preferred for the dems to show a fucking spine and taken a stand on what they believed was best for the country. we had a chance to give the country universal health care, but then the dems took that option off of the table, then we were given a "public option" that the dems were not firm on, so they compromised again and that bill barely even passed without a public option after all of that haggling. they failed to be strong and effective leaders and they failed to communicate their goals and what they wanted to do. they allowed douchbags like beck and limbaugh to spread disinformation to undermine them, and all of that went unchecked. politics is a dirty game these days. you can fight even if you have no idea what to do like the gop did, or you can stand up for what you believe in, take the debate to your opponents and make them see and respect your side. the dems did not do that. what good is a filibuster if even when your side invokes it they still will not negotiate? the filibuster is the biggest dick move cop out in american politics. if they are going to invoke that then they need to stand up and read moby dick all day to waste time like they used to. i would have rather had the dems go down with a fight than with the whimper they went out with. they should have explained WHY nothing has gotten done and pointed fingers just like the gop does. the average american does not care about procedure, they look to point the finger of blame, and that is what happened 3 days ago....

Jeanwah

TriumphantAngel wrote:

do some of you people really think you 'won' something? for serious? what exactly do you think is going to change?

U.S "politics" are a joke. two parties to choose from. neither of them give a shit about the voters. much more interested in building the empire, funding wars and occupations and getting away with all sorts of attrocities and not being held accountable for their actions because some people are more interested in ridiculous "scandals" and throwing dirt at each other like children in the sand box.

the biggest problem is the system. somewhere along the way you went from being the country everybody wanted to be like, to the country where people are just shaking their heads and wondering how you could let this happen to yourselves.

remember that dissent is the highest form of patriotism and while you are fighting amongst yourselves, your leaders are doing a terrible job and you are allowing them to get away with it.

I think it's probably easier to see the big picture if you don't reside in the country. Those boggled down in details can't see that the entire two-party system is really one party.

unsung

inmytree wrote:

fix it...

now...

Fix what? You people said all along nothing was broken.

gimmesometruth27

unsung wrote:

inmytree wrote:

fix it...

now...

Fix what? You people said all along nothing was broken.

fix the problems. stop the socialism. fix the economy. lower taxes, cut spending while still paying defense contractors. your side said they could do a better job and they had a plan to fix everything. now it is put up or shut up time...

whygohome

"who needs action when you got words"

Electric_Delta

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unsung wrote:

inmytree wrote:

fix it...

now...

Fix what? You people said all along nothing was broken.

fix the problems. stop the socialism. fix the economy. lower taxes, cut spending while still paying defense contractors. your side said they could do a better job and they had a plan to fix everything. now it is put up or shut up time...

For the sake of all involved, I hope progress is made.

inmytree

unsung wrote:

inmytree wrote:

fix it...

now...

Fix what? You people said all along nothing was broken.

what do you mean by "you people"....?

gimmesometruth27

inmytree wrote:

what do you mean by "you people"....?

what do YOU mean "you people"???



sorry i couldn't resist....carry on..

81

there is plenty of blame to go around for this mess.

both sides should be tossed out. the entire political process is so corrupt, it doesn't really matter who is in.

heck, local villages around here hire people to go to the state capital to try and get the village more money. how fucked up is that.

inmytree

81 wrote:

there is plenty of blame to go around for this mess.

both sides should be tossed out. the entire political process is so corrupt, it doesn't really matter who is in.

heck, local villages around here hire people to go to the state capital to try and get the village more money. how fucked up is that.

As I see it, that money they bring back to the village is mine and if they spend it on schools, roads, fire departments, parks and the community, I all for it...

markin ball

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unfortunately a group of people in this country have commandeered the concept of patriotism and changed the meaning to "loving your country above all else, never questioning it or it's actions, never seeing anything wrong in it's policies or actions, believing in 'american exceptionalism' and that those that criticize it hate america and can git the hell out.."

Except if Democrats are in power, of course.

gimmesometruth27

markin ball wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unfortunately a group of people in this country have commandeered the concept of patriotism and changed the meaning to "loving your country above all else, never questioning it or it's actions, never seeing anything wrong in it's policies or actions, believing in 'american exceptionalism' and that those that criticize it hate america and can git the hell out.."

Except if Democrats are in power, of course.

when has a democrat running for a significant office ever had a straight face while talking about such things? the only time i have ever heaed of a democrat spouting such nonsence was on the campaign trail while courting the elderly or the mentally inferior vote...

Byrnzie

People arguing politics is much like a cockfight - a lot of noise and feathers, while the fat man counts his money.

markin ball

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

markin ball wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

unfortunately a group of people in this country have commandeered the concept of patriotism and changed the meaning to "loving your country above all else, never questioning it or it's actions, never seeing anything wrong in it's policies or actions, believing in 'american exceptionalism' and that those that criticize it hate america and can git the hell out.."

Except if Democrats are in power, of course.

when has a democrat running for a significant office ever had a straight face while talking about such things? the only time i have ever heaed of a democrat spouting such nonsence was on the campaign trail while courting the elderly or the mentally inferior vote...

I was agreeing with you. I was pointing out that this "group of people" will question the goverment's actions and policies and stop the "love it or leave it" nonsense when Dems are in power.

gimmesometruth27

looks like they are gonna fix it alright...

they are going to dismantle the health care law "piece by piece", not compromise on the tax cuts and may cause a government shutdown, texas wants to withdraw from medicaid, and rand paul and jim demint can not name the things they will cut....and lindsey graham says we should "neuter the (iranian) regime" with a military strike...sounds about like fixing it to me... :roll: :roll:


Eric Cantor Opposes Compromise On Extending Bush Tax Cuts, Says Government Shutdown Will Be Obama's Fault
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/0 ... 80029.html

Tea Party Favorites Rand Paul & Jim DeMint Struggle To Name Specific Budget Cuts (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/0 ... 80043.html

Lindsey Graham Makes The Case For Strike On Iran
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/0 ... 79997.html

Texas Considers Medicaid Withdrawal
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/po ... .html?_r=1

GOP to attack health care law 'piece by piece'
Republican leaders say they'll use all tools available to cripple 'Obamacare'

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40053289/ns ... ork_times/