you have an opinion
oddly enough
i also have an opinion
... and as you would have noted had you read my posts properly, there are plenty of places where I have stated that we're all entitled to our opinions here. So good for us, we're agreed on that, then.
also,
i am sorry some of my comments are a bit graphic
they are all true horrors that monsters have done
The problem being, though, chad, is the things you've said you want to do are just as much "horrors" as what they've done. The problem is you condemn murder and advocate murder all in the same breath.
That's the heart of my problem with where you're coming from. Surely that's not so hard to comprehend, is it?
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I have learned that my views are often times dismissed as monstrous. I believe that humans are a plague, so if I have little use for most people, try to imagine how I feel about the true bastards in our midst. When I blame our species for the woeful condition and rapid deterioration of our planet, you’ll just have to forgive me for not placing the same emphasis on the importance of human life that some of you so clearly believe. Maybe it’s because I spend my time amongst the animals and have developed a far greater respect for their honesty, directness, and bravery in which they face life, pain, and death. A wolf pack wouldn’t tolerate anti-social behavior from one its own; they wouldn’t make excuses for brother who was once kicked in the head by a moose and since then has been biting family and acting crazy. You will say we are better than wolves, but that is something you will never convince me of, and I have all of human history on my side of the argument.
Have any of you ever killed anything with your own hands that was mortally wounded? Ever seen that last flicker of life go out in something’s eyes? I have and I seem to have a whole different relationship with life and death than most people. Hell, cancer took my father when I was a child and it was the best thing that could have happened to my family. See, he wasn’t a good man, and although I know what demon made him that way, it didn’t change the damage he was doing. Cancer stopped him from doing any more.
So, maybe your beliefs make you compassionate and wise. Maybe. Or, maybe they make you all too human, impractical, and without the will to do what is necessary. Not sure. All I can do is tell where I come from, and it’s a place most of you haven’t been.
you have an opinion
oddly enough
i also have an opinion
... and as you would have noted had you read my posts properly, there are plenty of places where I have stated that we're all entitled to our opinions here. So good for us, we're agreed on that, then.
also,
i am sorry some of my comments are a bit graphic
they are all true horrors that monsters have done
The problem being, though, chad, is the things you've said you want to do are just as much "horrors" as what they've done. The problem is you condemn murder and advocate murder all in the same breath.
That's the heart of my problem with where you're coming from. Surely that's not so hard to comprehend, is it?
yes it is very difficult to comprehend
good... i am on this side, this team...
evil... i am not on this wagon, never want to be and will remove it when i can or whatever
good can off evil and be good to go... i feel that and enjoy it that way
i have never offed anyone
i have hunted to help feed our family, shot wildlife for the supper table
if a child molester gets a bullet between his eyes i will not cry
i will sleep like a baby the whole night through
torturing, raping 2 girls and the mother is the work of evil
it must be stopped
that piece of scumbag garbage cannot fry quick enough
The problem being, though, chad, is the things you've said you want to do are just as much "horrors" as what they've done. The problem is you condemn murder and advocate murder all in the same breath.
That's the heart of my problem with where you're coming from. Surely that's not so hard to comprehend, is it?
yes it is very difficult to comprehend
good... i am on this side, this team...
evil... i am not on this wagon, never want to be and will remove it when i can or whatever
good can off evil and be good to go... i feel that and enjoy it that way
I don't even know where to begin on how little sense that makes. You contradict yourself left, right and centre and don't notice. One thing it does show me for certain though. Rational, intelligent argument is not exactly a strong point of yours. I think I'll stop wasting my time trying to talk sense to you.
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I don't even know where to begin on how little sense that makes. You contradict yourself left, right and centre and don't notice. One thing it does show me for certain though. Rational, intelligent argument is not exactly a strong point of yours. I think I'll stop wasting my time trying to talk sense to you.
makes all the sense in the world to me.
how am i contradicting myself?
good & evil
i live on the good side
good is the right side, as in right or wrong
sure i make mistakes
evil
the bad side
the wrong side
i don't live here
i do not like or tolerate what evil & wrong do
evil & wrong behavior should be removed from all good
why is this so hard to understand?
it's like war
we have the good side
we have the bad side
I don't even know where to begin on how little sense that makes. You contradict yourself left, right and centre and don't notice. One thing it does show me for certain though. Rational, intelligent argument is not exactly a strong point of yours. I think I'll stop wasting my time trying to talk sense to you.
makes all the sense in the world to me.
how am i contradicting myself?
good & evil
i live on the good side
good is the right side, as in right or wrong
sure i make mistakes
evil
the bad side
the wrong side
i don't live here
i do not like or tolerate what evil & wrong do
evil & wrong behavior should be removed from all good
why is this so hard to understand?
it's like war
we have the good side
we have the bad side
that is how simple it is
I think it's safe to say that all of us in here think of ourselves on the 'good side'.
And of course, nobody in here likes evil.
But where you lose me is -- yes, you dont want to tolerate evil and make blanket statements like evil should be removed or stabbed 13 times. Are you talking esoterically and poetically about Richard Ramirez and the likes of Ted Bundy? Or are we talking about the current state of the death penalty and how it is incorporated into society in general?
btw, also, war is not so clear cut either -- good side/bad side.
I don't even know where to begin on how little sense that makes. You contradict yourself left, right and centre and don't notice. One thing it does show me for certain though. Rational, intelligent argument is not exactly a strong point of yours. I think I'll stop wasting my time trying to talk sense to you.
makes all the sense in the world to me.
how am i contradicting myself?
good & evil
i live on the good side
good is the right side, as in right or wrong
sure i make mistakes
evil
the bad side
the wrong side
i don't live here
i do not like or tolerate what evil & wrong do
evil & wrong behavior should be removed from all good
why is this so hard to understand?
it's like war
we have the good side
we have the bad side
that is how simple it is
I think it's safe to say that all of us in here think of ourselves on the 'good side'.
And of course, nobody in here likes evil.
But where you lose me is -- yes, you dont want to tolerate evil and make blanket statements like evil should be removed or stabbed 13 times. Are you talking esoterically and poetically about Richard Ramirez and the likes of Ted Bundy? Or are we talking about the current state of the death penalty and how it is incorporated into society in general?
btw, also, war is not so clear cut either -- good side/bad side.
it is that cut and dry
it boils down to good & evil, yes/no?
heaven & hell
there
i said it
do you believe a normal decent man can carve women up for fun sexual desires?
do you believe a demon monster can do those things?
simple questions.
the war between good and bad
right & wrong
in many cases it is extreme brutality beyond disgust, beyond senselessness
richard ramirez
should be wearing 13 butcher knifes
it is that cut and dry
it boils down to good & evil, yes/no?
heaven & hell
there
i said it
do you believe a normal decent man can carve women up for fun sexual desires?
do you believe a demon monster can do those things?
simple questions.
the war between good and bad
right & wrong
in many cases it is extreme brutality beyond disgust, beyond senselessness
richard ramirez
should be wearing 13 butcher knifes
Dude Chadwick, I think you mean well, and I respect you, but this is exactly why this discussion is a train wreck. Since you didnt answer, I'm just going to assume that you are talking esoterically and refuse to address/even think about the DP and its flaws (ie executing innocents). I'll just settle on the idea that you are the crusader of good that wants to end violence with violence and that all its victims are a clear cut 100% guilty.
it is that cut and dry
it boils down to good & evil, yes/no?
heaven & hell
there
i said it
do you believe a normal decent man can carve women up for fun sexual desires?
do you believe a demon monster can do those things?
simple questions.
the war between good and bad
right & wrong
in many cases it is extreme brutality beyond disgust, beyond senselessness
richard ramirez
should be wearing 13 butcher knifes
Dude Chadwick, I think you mean well, and I respect you, but this is exactly why this discussion is a train wreck. Since you didnt answer, I'm just going to assume that you are talking esoterically and refuse to address/even think about the DP and its flaws (ie executing innocents). I'll just settle on the idea that you are the crusader of good that wants to end violence with violence and that all its victims are a clear cut 100% guilty.
redhanded
caught and the whole nine yards
it is terrible for them, maybe not
maybe their spirit will learn something after they leave this life
who fucking knows?
i don't
i just know good and bad
right and wrong
that's all i got
what fucking question?
now i gotta back up
see you fuckers get a guy all screwed up
you ppl make a fucker nervous
know what i mean?
see you fuckers get a guy all screwed up
you ppl make a fucker nervous
know what i mean?
just nevermind. I think i answered my own question. I think you and I are just arguing two differnt topics.
I assume you are just talking about "clear cut guilty" -- of which there is no such thing in general terms.
I'm talking about the DP and all of its flaws. It seems the flaws get overlooked in next to big bad evil such as Richard Ramirez. I understand it though, I really do.
see you fuckers get a guy all screwed up
you ppl make a fucker nervous
know what i mean?
just nevermind. I think i answered my own question. I think you and I are just arguing two differnt topics.
I assume you are just talking about "clear cut guilty" -- of which there is no such thing in general terms.
I'm talking about the DP and all of its flaws. It seems the flaws get overlooked in next to big bad evil such as Richard Ramirez. I understand it though, I really do.
i need a shower
im gonna go workout and stuff
i'll be back before you know it... im sure you can't hardly wait :lolno:
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
no..not just by any stretch of the imagination,tell that 11 year old little girl about Justus and why her mother was butchered and why she was stabbed 40 or so times.
no..not just by any stretch of the imagination,tell that 11 year old little girl about Justus and why her mother was butchered and why she was stabbed 40 or so times.
Godfather.
And how will killing someone else make any difference to that awful situation? It won't. It is a heinous crime, true. I feel awful for that child and it will no doubt affect her for the rest of her life. Killing him, however, is not going to change that.
You also make the completely false assumption that all victims' families would support retribution in the form of the death penalty, whereas there are very many - not just in the United States, but the world over, in the vast majority of countries that do not stoop to killing killers - who feel that the perpetrator being locked up for life, will die in prison, is the justice they want.
Post edited by wolfamongwolves on
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
no..not just by any stretch of the imagination,tell that 11 year old little girl about Justus and why her mother was butchered and why she was stabbed 40 or so times.
Godfather.
You've got to be kidding me. haha, the old "tell that to (victim)". I'm so sick of that argument. Nobody here knows how that girl feels, geesh.
Justice? "tell that to" the mother of Tim Evans who was killed by the govt and was innocent.
we could go around like this in circles for eternity.
And yes, life in prison for that guy is justice. And many, many people are going to be telling that little girl exaclty that -- that the criminals got justice.
because it's fair, a life for a life and he has for-fitted his by killing this woman.
Godfather.
and JP stfuah
Ok, seriously though... You do realize that there are something like average 16,000 murders per year in the US.
And that there are on average 37 executions/yr.
So, there is no justice unless the perpetrators die?
You must be really upset then that there are like 15000 people out there just livin it up.
(You're right, btw, he has forfeited his life -- he's in jail for life.)
*No punishment for anything!
*Enjoy life! Live without consequences!
Or maybe...
*Anarchy is the best way!
haha, very funny. :roll:
Actually, The other side of this discussion that gets kinda lost (maybe it was discussed back on page 37b...)
is whether or not you think the death Pnalty is worse that living in maximum security prison forever for someone like this kid who just axed that girl and her daughter.
Personally, I'd take the DP if I had to chose. I feel its the easy way out.
because it's fair, a life for a life and he has for-fitted his by killing this woman.
Godfather.
and JP stfuah
I was wondering how long it would take before the Bible justifications would start. There are so many problems with that. First, (and correct me if i'm wrong, because I'm not American), your constitution establishes church-state separation, so it seems to me that to base a legal directive on a church's teaching should be unconstitutional, no? Secondly, the old eye-for-an-eye, life-for-a-life cliché is taken out of context, and is anyway directly contradicted by other passages in the Bible, the most obvious and unambiguous of all being "Thou shalt not kill", which is a closed statement with no contextual confusion. On top of which, it tends to be Christians who use the "eye for an eye" defence, yet they seem to conveniently forget that Christ himself explicitly overrode "eye for an eye". (Matt 5)
Aside from the Biblical point, no, it's not "fair". I've repeated this point till I'm practically bored with it, but it doesn't seem to register. If killing one person is wrong, killing another person is also wrong. You cannot have it both ways just because it suits your indignation. Two wrong do not make a right, two deaths don't cancel each other out and make it "fair." Quite frankly, to say it's "fair" is a bit of a slap in the face for the victim's family, if you ask me.
Post edited by wolfamongwolves on
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
who says? do you still think they should be put to death if the victim opposes it? because from what I can gather, most of your statements revolve around retribution for the victims, but if the victim is opposed to it, then shouldn't that mean something?
*No punishment for anything!
*Enjoy life! Live without consequences!
Or maybe...
*Anarchy is the best way!
haha, very funny. :roll:
Actually, The other side of this discussion that gets kinda lost (maybe it was discussed back on page 37b...)
is whether or not you think the death Pnalty is worse that living in maximum security prison forever for someone like this kid who just axed that girl and her daughter.
Personally, I'd take the DP if I had to chose. I feel its the easy way out.
I almost agree with you on that ,it is too easy, life in general population with all inmates knowing what he has done....the end is almost a guarantee.
Aside from the Biblical point, no, it's not "fair". I've repeated this point till I'm practically bored with it, but it doesn't seem to register. If killing one person is wrong, killing another person is also wrong. You cannot have it both ways just because it suits your indignation. Two wrong do not make a right, two deaths don't cancel each other out and make it "fair." Quite frankly, to say it's "fair" is a bit of a slap in the face for the victim's family, if you ask me.
I don't even know why I came back to this thread. They won't ever get it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
who says? do you still think they should be put to death if the victim opposes it? because from what I can gather, most of your statements revolve around retribution for the victims, but if the victim is opposed to it, then shouldn't that mean something?
Comments
The problem being, though, chad, is the things you've said you want to do are just as much "horrors" as what they've done. The problem is you condemn murder and advocate murder all in the same breath.
That's the heart of my problem with where you're coming from. Surely that's not so hard to comprehend, is it?
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
good... i am on this side, this team...
evil... i am not on this wagon, never want to be and will remove it when i can or whatever
good can off evil and be good to go... i feel that and enjoy it that way
i have never offed anyone
i have hunted to help feed our family, shot wildlife for the supper table
if a child molester gets a bullet between his eyes i will not cry
i will sleep like a baby the whole night through
torturing, raping 2 girls and the mother is the work of evil
it must be stopped
that piece of scumbag garbage cannot fry quick enough
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I don't even know where to begin on how little sense that makes. You contradict yourself left, right and centre and don't notice. One thing it does show me for certain though. Rational, intelligent argument is not exactly a strong point of yours. I think I'll stop wasting my time trying to talk sense to you.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
how am i contradicting myself?
good & evil
i live on the good side
good is the right side, as in right or wrong
sure i make mistakes
evil
the bad side
the wrong side
i don't live here
i do not like or tolerate what evil & wrong do
evil & wrong behavior should be removed from all good
why is this so hard to understand?
it's like war
we have the good side
we have the bad side
that is how simple it is
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I think it's safe to say that all of us in here think of ourselves on the 'good side'.
And of course, nobody in here likes evil.
But where you lose me is -- yes, you dont want to tolerate evil and make blanket statements like evil should be removed or stabbed 13 times. Are you talking esoterically and poetically about Richard Ramirez and the likes of Ted Bundy? Or are we talking about the current state of the death penalty and how it is incorporated into society in general?
btw, also, war is not so clear cut either -- good side/bad side.
it boils down to good & evil, yes/no?
heaven & hell
there
i said it
do you believe a normal decent man can carve women up for fun sexual desires?
do you believe a demon monster can do those things?
simple questions.
the war between good and bad
right & wrong
in many cases it is extreme brutality beyond disgust, beyond senselessness
richard ramirez
should be wearing 13 butcher knifes
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Dude Chadwick, I think you mean well, and I respect you, but this is exactly why this discussion is a train wreck. Since you didnt answer, I'm just going to assume that you are talking esoterically and refuse to address/even think about the DP and its flaws (ie executing innocents). I'll just settle on the idea that you are the crusader of good that wants to end violence with violence and that all its victims are a clear cut 100% guilty.
redhanded
caught and the whole nine yards
it is terrible for them, maybe not
maybe their spirit will learn something after they leave this life
who fucking knows?
i don't
i just know good and bad
right and wrong
that's all i got
what fucking question?
now i gotta back up
see you fuckers get a guy all screwed up
you ppl make a fucker nervous
know what i mean?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
just nevermind. I think i answered my own question. I think you and I are just arguing two differnt topics.
I assume you are just talking about "clear cut guilty" -- of which there is no such thing in general terms.
I'm talking about the DP and all of its flaws. It seems the flaws get overlooked in next to big bad evil such as Richard Ramirez. I understand it though, I really do.
you people make me nervous
speaking of making me nervous
where is that scb?
wasn't she the leader of y'alls little pack?
that gal makes me nervous
she's a hard one that one
she sent me straight a few times
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
im gonna go workout and stuff
i'll be back before you know it... im sure you can't hardly wait :lolno:
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
dont worry, this thread makes me feel dirty too.
Godfather.
A rational and just response to a horrible crime.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
no..not just by any stretch of the imagination,tell that 11 year old little girl about Justus and why her mother was butchered and why she was stabbed 40 or so times.
Godfather.
And how will killing someone else make any difference to that awful situation? It won't. It is a heinous crime, true. I feel awful for that child and it will no doubt affect her for the rest of her life. Killing him, however, is not going to change that.
You also make the completely false assumption that all victims' families would support retribution in the form of the death penalty, whereas there are very many - not just in the United States, but the world over, in the vast majority of countries that do not stoop to killing killers - who feel that the perpetrator being locked up for life, will die in prison, is the justice they want.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
You've got to be kidding me. haha, the old "tell that to (victim)". I'm so sick of that argument. Nobody here knows how that girl feels, geesh.
Justice? "tell that to" the mother of Tim Evans who was killed by the govt and was innocent.
we could go around like this in circles for eternity.
And yes, life in prison for that guy is justice. And many, many people are going to be telling that little girl exaclty that -- that the criminals got justice.
Godfather.
and JP stfuah
I do. How about:
*No punishment for anything!
*Enjoy life! Live without consequences!
Or maybe...
*Anarchy is the best way!
Ok, seriously though... You do realize that there are something like average 16,000 murders per year in the US.
And that there are on average 37 executions/yr.
So, there is no justice unless the perpetrators die?
You must be really upset then that there are like 15000 people out there just livin it up.
(You're right, btw, he has forfeited his life -- he's in jail for life.)
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
haha, very funny.
Actually, The other side of this discussion that gets kinda lost (maybe it was discussed back on page 37b...)
is whether or not you think the death Pnalty is worse that living in maximum security prison forever for someone like this kid who just axed that girl and her daughter.
Personally, I'd take the DP if I had to chose. I feel its the easy way out.
Aside from the Biblical point, no, it's not "fair". I've repeated this point till I'm practically bored with it, but it doesn't seem to register. If killing one person is wrong, killing another person is also wrong. You cannot have it both ways just because it suits your indignation. Two wrong do not make a right, two deaths don't cancel each other out and make it "fair." Quite frankly, to say it's "fair" is a bit of a slap in the face for the victim's family, if you ask me.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I almost agree with you on that ,it is too easy, life in general population with all inmates knowing what he has done....the end is almost a guarantee.
Godfather.
back on page 2 or 3!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't even know why I came back to this thread. They won't ever get it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I will go with a yes on that one if the victim wanted it that way but how would we/the courts know this ?
Godfather.
I have not stated anything about the Bible on this, this is my opinion alone.
Godfather.