I was going to post about why Jesus would not have earned any mention in the limited amount of historical documents from the time (due to his unremarkable life - the legend having been created decades and centuries later) and about why the Gospel of Mark and Paul's epistles can be considered reliable transcriptions of the oral storytelling of their time. But it looks like this thread wasn't about any of that. I'm usually better at avoiding the blatantly anti-Zionist discussions on this board...
You're right about one thing: It's a legend. That's all.
And you think you can explain away the fact that there is no mention of him in any of the histories of the period by saying he led an 'unremarkable life'? Though I suppose someone who claims to be the Son of God and who attracts hundreds of followers, performs miracles, threatens the established order, and is publicly crucified by the authorities wouldn't attract any attention.
..just in case any right-wing, Republican voting, Anti-Arab Christians out there have forgotten.
Talk amongst yourselves...
are you looking for argument ? get a grip man, this kin d of crap just tells me more about you than I really need to know. believe as you will it's your soul.
Godfather.
Here's some news for ya; Jesus was not fair-skinned, blue eyed, and English speaking. I just think it's strange that so many Americans have adopted Jesus as one of their own. How come they don't adopt Islam or Buddhism instead? I believe Christianity is, and always was, a completely alien religion to people in the West - and in the year 2010 it's not just alien, but a failed religion; it's obsolete - way past it's sell by date. Like Communism, it's intentions may have been pure, but it's been perverted and deformed to the point where it no longer has any value. I think it should be consigned to the dust-bin of history.
And why do churches in the Western world still portray him as a Westerner? He wasn't. Even if we believe the fantasy bible version then Jesus would still have been dark skinned, brown eyed, and spoken Aramaic - a completely foreign language.
He would have looked nothing like this:
Actually, he would have looked more like this:
And if you don't think that religion and racism have any relation then I suggest you do your homework.
yeah, this. this thread is clearly just an attempt to rile up some perceived stereotypical christians and southeners. not all southerners are racist, and neither are all christians.
True. I regard 99% of so-called Christians as a bit of a joke.
By the way, why pretend that the number of Christians in America isn't huge, and that they don't carry considerable influence in the political system over there, and consequently in U.S foreign affairs? I view them as not just idiots, but as very dangerous idiots.
And you think you can explain away the fact that there is no mention of him in any of the histories of the period by saying he led an 'unremarkable life'? Though I suppose someone who claims to be the Son of God and who attracts hundreds of followers, performs miracles, threatens the established order, and is publicly crucified by the authorities wouldn't attract any attention.
+1
plus all the historical references (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius,Thallus) has been shown to be either inserted or amended by later Christians.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
And you think you can explain away the fact that there is no mention of him in any of the histories of the period by saying he led an 'unremarkable life'? Though I suppose someone who claims to be the Son of God and who attracts hundreds of followers, performs miracles, threatens the established order, and is publicly crucified by the authorities wouldn't attract any attention.
+1
plus all the historical references (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius,Thallus) have been shown to be either inserted or amended by later Christians.
True. It's inconceivable that a character of his importance would receive absolutely no mention in any historical records of the time, including Josephus' twenty-one volume 'Antiquities of the Jews'.
i'll read the rest later, but i'm living in Mississippi right now and just yesterday i said hello to my black next door neighbor, had dinner with my mexican date, and then smoked some weed at my middle-eastern friend's house, and not once did i encounter a lynching or race riot. no one even threw a brick at us! i thought for sure it would happen when that white guy brought that black girl to the bar all the whities frequent but nothing! i was very dissappointed.
i'm pretty horrified about what people think of the south. my uncle works in Oman, and could easily pass as one of their own, and the first thing people there said when he got there was "oh i saw MIssissippi Burning, so you dont like black people!" fucking idiots.
I don't understand what any of this has to do with what I posted.
Anyway, how many white Christian Mid-west Americans support the war in the Middle East? Is it less than 90%? Do you think Arabs are viewed favourably by most people in America?
Either way, he probably looked more like Osama Bin Laden than Robert Powell. In fact, if he walked into a church today in Mississipi or Arkansas he'd probably be shot or lynched
and yeah i'd say it less than 90%. much less. as with every other issue in the US, its probably somewhere around 60-40, give or take. 70 at best. For Iraq i mean. Afghanistan would be higher, but its higher from New York to LA.
and do you really think you are exposing some horrible lie that most of the world never knew? its common knowledge that Jesus would have looked middleeastern, even the poor dumb hick christians you hate so much know this. you're not exactly dropping a bombshell on anyone. as if it even matters.
if you really have visited the southern or midwestern states at any time since 1968 (and i have my doubts you have), you would see how utterly full of shit you are. but you're probably one of those "travellers" who visits countries to see what you expect to see, not what is.
so if God brought forth the flood cause man had been so wicked or whatever, how come with all man has done since, has God not felt the need to wash us all away again? :think:
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
so if God brought the flood cause man had been so wicked or whatever, how come with all man has done since, has God not felt the need to wash us all away again? :think:
The bible said that god promised that he's not going to do that again (the flood).
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
so if God brought the flood cause man had been so wicked or whatever, how come with all man has done since, has God not felt the need to wash us all away again? :think:
The bible said that god promised that he's not going to do that again (the flood).
hmm. quite convenient in these times of rational thought.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
so if God brought the flood cause man had been so wicked or whatever, how come with all man has done since, has God not felt the need to wash us all away again? :think:
The bible said that god promised that he's not going to do that again (the flood).
hmm. quite convenient in these times of rational thought.
hmm. quite convenient in these times of rational thought.
Oh my friend how I wish these were times of rational thought, people still believe weird things and what is worst they're willing to kill and die for for those bronze age believes :(
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Here's some news for ya; Jesus was not fair-skinned, blue eyed, and English speaking. I just think it's strange that so many Americans have adopted Jesus as one of their own. How come they don't adopt Islam or Buddhism instead? I believe Christianity is, and always was, a completely alien religion to people in the West - and in the year 2010 it's not just alien, but a failed religion; it's obsolete - way past it's sell by date. Like Communism, it's intentions may have been pure, but it's been perverted and deformed to the point where it no longer has any value. I think it should be consigned to the dust-bin of history.
And why do churches in the Western world still portray him as a Westerner? He wasn't. Even if we believe the fantasy bible version then Jesus would still have been dark skinned, brown eyed, and spoken Aramaic - a completely foreign language.
He would have looked nothing like this:
Actually, he would have looked more like this:
And if you don't think that religion and racism have any relation then I suggest you do your homework.[/quote]
that guys a lot older than 33
What i think is funny is black people never heard of jesus until white people told them about him, then they claim him as one of there own , hell slavery was justified on the teaching of christanity
What i think is funny is black people never heard of jesus until white people told them about him, then they claim him as one of there own , hell slavery was justified on the teaching of christanity
no more funny than all them white folks claiming an arab as one of their own.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh it think he was arab, but i work with a lot of black guys and they all beleive he was black, so ask them , "Well what about the 12 apostoles? were they black, and they they say NO, just Jesus, which i responded, do you REALLY see 12 White guys, 2,000 years ago, walking around a writing down EVERYTHING a Black man had to say? The were all freakin arabs.
if you really have visited the southern or midwestern states at any time since 1968 (and i have my doubts you have), you would see how utterly full of shit you are. but you're probably one of those "travellers" who visits countries to see what you expect to see, not what is.
I'd take a breath there pal. Sounds like you're running your mouth off faster than your brain can think.
I've been in the south more then once. Not that that has anything to do with it. Are you a church going southern Christian? You seem a little uptight.
You think 1968 was some kind of watershed year when everything changed in Mid Western America?
this thread is clearly just an attempt to rile up some perceived stereotypical christians and southeners. not all southerners are racist, and neither are all christians.
I think the issue of religion and race is an interesting one. Clearly you don't agree.
'In the majority of Western art, narrative and cinema depicting Jesus, he is portrayed with brown hair and brown eyes, having a short beard and white skin. However, some artists, including notably Dürer, have also depicted him as blond and/or blue-eyed. This is also the case in several films, including Jesus of Nazareth (1977) in which he has dark brown hair but pale blue eyes.
Because of the commonness of this depiction, it is often confused with historical fact. It has dispersed so widely that many cultures have at least to some extent assimilated the image of a white Jesus. Western Christians spread images of a European Jesus through their encounters with peoples of Africa, the Americas, Australia and parts of Asia (often through colonization), from the 16th to the 20th century. Many nonwhite regions and ethnicities have depicted Jesus in this way, sometimes routinely, though sometimes with partial adaptations to the local setting, including dress. Moreover, in addition to images, the fact that Christianity was predominantly introduced to them by white individuals makes the racial connection even more complex. Nonetheless, portrayal of Jesus with local features is also common, especially in areas where Christianity has been prominent for a longer period of history.
Additionally, in some cultures nonwhite depictions of Jesus are actually criticized or dismissed outright, with a few considering it blasphemous to portray Jesus as being of another ethnicity. Ever since the Nazi claim that Jesus was Nordic, Christian white supremacists have commonly equated Christian identity with white racial separatism, sometimes using exegesis of Biblical passages to argue their position.'
I have no doubt He probably looked a lot like a younger version of Osama Bin Laden. That really has no bearing for me personally. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christians are some of the most vile human beings on Earth. They alone give Christianity a bad name. It doesn't change my belief in Jesus Christ though, and I really don't care if that makes me look like a fool. I'm not here to try and impress anyone. If so called Christians actually lived by the words attributed to Jesus, this entire planet would be a much better place.
This is a theory I've been thinking about for some time. What if Different aliens came down on different times and each brought a different message. One brought with him Christianity, one brought Islam and so so so. Idk, it's deeper then that but I really dnt want to get to deep into it......oh and Jesus was indeed a camel jockey. As some of my friends on planet earth like to call middle easterners.......well that and terrorists.....
If so called Christians actually lived by the words attributed to Jesus, this entire planet would be a much better place.
True. I was just thinking the other day about this. I wonder how many so-called Christians actually follow the example of Jesus? Most Christians, as far as I can see, live in big houses, vote Republican, and are pro-war. A generalization I know, but regardless, I don't see any so-called Christians in the West preaching austerity and charity. It's just a money-spinner.
As Nietzsche pointed out: 'There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross'.
Jesus Was A Terrorist - Jello Biafra with No Means No
Jesus was a terrorist
Enemy of the state
That's what the Romans labeled him
So he was put to death
He died for his beliefs
What's changed today?
Today bible-thumping cannibals
Reap money from his name
Buy cable networks & power
With old ladies' checks
If Jesus saw Pat Robertson
What do you think he'd say?
Tax-free they re-write our laws
And sick 'em on you
Women don't control their bodies
TV preachers do
Censor everything from bathing suits
To science books
From the schoolroom to the bedroom
They want our thoughts - or else
They treat us like the Romans
Used to treat the Christians
Even some churchgoing folks are scared
Modern catacombs of fear
Built with money, power and threats
Rock'n'roll is labeled porn
Sell a record, you're under arrest
Instead of fighting AIDS
They try to stop us having sex
They brag that they won't quit
Til they take dominion over our lives
Is freedom of speech such a terrorist act
Is spiritual peace such a satanic threat
Believe what you want
But we'll fight to keep
Out heads from being cemented in your sand.
Comments
You're right about one thing: It's a legend. That's all.
And you think you can explain away the fact that there is no mention of him in any of the histories of the period by saying he led an 'unremarkable life'? Though I suppose someone who claims to be the Son of God and who attracts hundreds of followers, performs miracles, threatens the established order, and is publicly crucified by the authorities wouldn't attract any attention.
Here's some news for ya; Jesus was not fair-skinned, blue eyed, and English speaking. I just think it's strange that so many Americans have adopted Jesus as one of their own. How come they don't adopt Islam or Buddhism instead? I believe Christianity is, and always was, a completely alien religion to people in the West - and in the year 2010 it's not just alien, but a failed religion; it's obsolete - way past it's sell by date. Like Communism, it's intentions may have been pure, but it's been perverted and deformed to the point where it no longer has any value. I think it should be consigned to the dust-bin of history.
And why do churches in the Western world still portray him as a Westerner? He wasn't. Even if we believe the fantasy bible version then Jesus would still have been dark skinned, brown eyed, and spoken Aramaic - a completely foreign language.
He would have looked nothing like this:
Actually, he would have looked more like this:
And if you don't think that religion and racism have any relation then I suggest you do your homework.
True. I regard 99% of so-called Christians as a bit of a joke.
By the way, why pretend that the number of Christians in America isn't huge, and that they don't carry considerable influence in the political system over there, and consequently in U.S foreign affairs? I view them as not just idiots, but as very dangerous idiots.
+1
plus all the historical references (Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius,Thallus) has been shown to be either inserted or amended by later Christians.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
True. It's inconceivable that a character of his importance would receive absolutely no mention in any historical records of the time, including Josephus' twenty-one volume 'Antiquities of the Jews'.
and yeah i'd say it less than 90%. much less. as with every other issue in the US, its probably somewhere around 60-40, give or take. 70 at best. For Iraq i mean. Afghanistan would be higher, but its higher from New York to LA.
and do you really think you are exposing some horrible lie that most of the world never knew? its common knowledge that Jesus would have looked middleeastern, even the poor dumb hick christians you hate so much know this. you're not exactly dropping a bombshell on anyone. as if it even matters.
if you really have visited the southern or midwestern states at any time since 1968 (and i have my doubts you have), you would see how utterly full of shit you are. but you're probably one of those "travellers" who visits countries to see what you expect to see, not what is.
it's just not worth the argument.
Godfather.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The bible said that god promised that he's not going to do that again (the flood).
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
hmm. quite convenient in these times of rational thought.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
is it worth the gamble cate ?
Godfather.
Oh my friend how I wish these were times of rational thought, people still believe weird things and what is worst they're willing to kill and die for for those bronze age believes :(
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
well godfather tis not really an offer i CANT refuse, you know??
besides im not a gambler.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And why do churches in the Western world still portray him as a Westerner? He wasn't. Even if we believe the fantasy bible version then Jesus would still have been dark skinned, brown eyed, and spoken Aramaic - a completely foreign language.
He would have looked nothing like this:
Actually, he would have looked more like this:
And if you don't think that religion and racism have any relation then I suggest you do your homework.[/quote]
that guys a lot older than 33
no more funny than all them white folks claiming an arab as one of their own.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Not my WHITE ASS
the only part that was white the rest was black!!!
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Your projecting, icky thoughts!!! Alright enough fun for tonight, Good Night All, i'm off to pray to my rainbow colored Jesus for my soul to keep.
yous one of them communists aint ya??
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yeah, sure they do. Which is why every church in America has a picture showing him with European features.
I'd take a breath there pal. Sounds like you're running your mouth off faster than your brain can think.
I've been in the south more then once. Not that that has anything to do with it. Are you a church going southern Christian? You seem a little uptight.
You think 1968 was some kind of watershed year when everything changed in Mid Western America?
No, they're not. But I'm sure you'll now try and pretend that those good, progressive thinking Christians see them that way.
I think the issue of religion and race is an interesting one. Clearly you don't agree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_of_Jesus
'In the majority of Western art, narrative and cinema depicting Jesus, he is portrayed with brown hair and brown eyes, having a short beard and white skin. However, some artists, including notably Dürer, have also depicted him as blond and/or blue-eyed. This is also the case in several films, including Jesus of Nazareth (1977) in which he has dark brown hair but pale blue eyes.
Because of the commonness of this depiction, it is often confused with historical fact. It has dispersed so widely that many cultures have at least to some extent assimilated the image of a white Jesus. Western Christians spread images of a European Jesus through their encounters with peoples of Africa, the Americas, Australia and parts of Asia (often through colonization), from the 16th to the 20th century. Many nonwhite regions and ethnicities have depicted Jesus in this way, sometimes routinely, though sometimes with partial adaptations to the local setting, including dress. Moreover, in addition to images, the fact that Christianity was predominantly introduced to them by white individuals makes the racial connection even more complex. Nonetheless, portrayal of Jesus with local features is also common, especially in areas where Christianity has been prominent for a longer period of history.
Additionally, in some cultures nonwhite depictions of Jesus are actually criticized or dismissed outright, with a few considering it blasphemous to portray Jesus as being of another ethnicity. Ever since the Nazi claim that Jesus was Nordic, Christian white supremacists have commonly equated Christian identity with white racial separatism, sometimes using exegesis of Biblical passages to argue their position.'
True. I was just thinking the other day about this. I wonder how many so-called Christians actually follow the example of Jesus? Most Christians, as far as I can see, live in big houses, vote Republican, and are pro-war. A generalization I know, but regardless, I don't see any so-called Christians in the West preaching austerity and charity. It's just a money-spinner.
As Nietzsche pointed out: 'There was only one Christian, and he died on the cross'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdkqu8VKvCA
Jesus Was A Terrorist - Jello Biafra with No Means No
Jesus was a terrorist
Enemy of the state
That's what the Romans labeled him
So he was put to death
He died for his beliefs
What's changed today?
Today bible-thumping cannibals
Reap money from his name
Buy cable networks & power
With old ladies' checks
If Jesus saw Pat Robertson
What do you think he'd say?
Tax-free they re-write our laws
And sick 'em on you
Women don't control their bodies
TV preachers do
Censor everything from bathing suits
To science books
From the schoolroom to the bedroom
They want our thoughts - or else
They treat us like the Romans
Used to treat the Christians
Even some churchgoing folks are scared
Modern catacombs of fear
Built with money, power and threats
Rock'n'roll is labeled porn
Sell a record, you're under arrest
Instead of fighting AIDS
They try to stop us having sex
They brag that they won't quit
Til they take dominion over our lives
Is freedom of speech such a terrorist act
Is spiritual peace such a satanic threat
Believe what you want
But we'll fight to keep
Out heads from being cemented in your sand.