Oh Christ (get it?), B, I can't name them all, I'm no expert, but if I remember my university courses on the New Testament correctly Jesus is mentioned by Josephus, as well as other contemporary (or nearly so) Roman and Jewish sources. As YOU YOURSELF SAID there is a difference between the mythological Jesus and the historical Jesus, but THERE WAS AN HISTORICAL JESUS, and all the evidence points to him not being an Arab. Now please, why do you think that he was an Arab, despite all the evidence to the contrary, or are you just trying to be provocative while also being incapable of admitting that you are wrong?
The mentions of Jesus in the histories of Josephus were found to be later interpolations. Basically, they are not genuine.
So far you've provided no 'evidence to the contrary' so the question of whether I'm capable or incapable of admitting I'm wrong is not relevant.
Josephus on Jesus
Josephus is the first non-Christian writer to mention Jesus. He does this in Books 18 and 20 of his Antiquities, from about 93 AD. It is worth giving the reference in Book 18 in full.
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ . And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
For two centuries no Christian used this passage, although many of them quoted Josephus. For example, Origen quoted Josephus when writing 250,000 words against the pagan writer Celsus, but he never uses this passage even when it would have been most useful. In Chapter 6 of Book 1 of 'Contra Celsum', Origen wrote ' ..."Many shall say to Me in that day, In Thy name we have cast out devils, and done many wonderful works." Whether Celsus omitted this from intentional malignity, or from ignorance, I do not know..." Would not Origen have loved to show Josephus as writing that Jesus performed wonderful works?
In chapter 67 Origen quotes Celsus as follows '...this Jew of Celsus.... continues: "The old mythological fables, which attributed a divine origin to Perseus, and Amphion, and Aeacus, and Minos, were not believed by us. Nevertheless, that they might not appear unworthy of credit, they represented the deeds of these personages as great and wonderful, and truly beyond the power of man; but what hast thou done that is noble or wonderful either in deed or in word?' Wouldn't Origen have loved to answer Celsus's taunt by pointing out that the renowned Jewish historian Josephus said Jesus performed wonderful works.
It is admitted that the passage of Josephus was tampered with by Christians. Strictly speaking, this rules it out altogether as evidence. If a prosecution lawyer in a court case tried to introduce evidence that had been tampered with by prosecution witnesses, that evidence would be rejected. However, let us examine the claim that we can tell in this short paragraph by looking at the style, which phrases are Josephan and which are Christian interpolations. In passing I note that many Christians deny that we can tell by looking at the style that Paul did not write 1 or 2 Timothy, Titus or Ephesians, although there we have whole letters to work with, not just a few phrases.
It is worth pointing out that any Christian scribe who had just copied out 17 books of Josephus would be familiar with his style and easily able to express Christian thoughts in Josephan language.
Josephus only uses the phrase 'a wise man' about Solomon and Daniel. Would a first-century Pharisee bracket a crucified criminal with legendary kings and prophets? It was Christian writers who compared Jesus to Solomon (Matthew 12:42) and praised the wisdom of Jesus (Luke 2:46-52)
Josephus only used the phrase wonderful works about Elisha. As your email pointed out it was Christians who saw parallels between Jesus and Elijah and Elisha.
In Mark 6:2 , Jews praise the wisdom and mighty works of Jesus. Can we be sure that Josephus's 'wise man' and 'wonderful works' must be genuine as no Christian interpolator would have had any motive to portray Josephus the way the Gospels say Jews regarded Jesus? I doubt it.
Josephus's phrase 'the principal men' (ton proton andron) is mirrored in Luke 19:47 - 'the leaders among the people' (hoi protoi)
The passage of Josephus first appears in 'Ecclesiastical History' by Eusebius in about 320 AD. Eusebius also includes clearly fake letters by Jesus himself. Another quote of Josephus by Eusebius is especially interesting , as we can see how Eusebius would doctor quotes to make them support Christian writings .
Josephus wrote in Antiquities Book 19 Section 346 'But as he presently afterwards looked up, he saw an owl sitting on a certain rope over his head, and immediately understood that this bird was the messenger (Greek 'Angelos') of ill tidings...' Eusebius in his History (2.10) omits the words 'boubona - epi schoiniou tinos' (ie an owl on a certain rope) and retains only the 'angelos' or messenger. As it stands in Eusebius, the 'quote' of Josephus appears to support Acts 12:23 which mentions an 'angelos', but naturally does not say this messenger was an owl.
Eusebius is the first person to say that Josephus referred to 'the tribe of Christians' . Eusebius also said Tertullian referred to the tribe of Christians. He did not. Eusebius also said Trajan referred to the tribe of Christians. He did not.
To sum up, Josephus's mention of Jesus was unknown for two centuries, is admitted even by Christians to be tampered with and first appears in the work of somebody who produced forged letters of Jesus, doctored quotes of Josephus, and lied about one of the very phrases found in the Testimonium when saying that other ancient writers used it. Almost every phrase expresses Christian, not Jewish, beliefs about Jesus.
I think you guys are both wrong about Joshepus, it is actually this guy :
Arab? No, He was a Jew. He set out to shepperd in the lost children of Israel away from the corruption of the Temple Priests and towards the source of our humaity, God.
I, for one, believe Jesus was a real historic person. Jesus did not invent Christianity, He brought about teachings that i, personally, believe are words to live by. I believe His teachings are pure, but the Church that claims Him at their center is corrupt. The earliest Christian Church is the Church of Rome. Later sects broke from that foundation but all of them follow the basic foundations of the source. The source not being Jesus' teaching, rather the Bible that was founded by the early Catholic Church. The rituals and ceremonies may differ, but they all use the same playbook.
If people consider America as a Christian Nation... why are we so far from the teachings of Christ? Why does everything in our lives revolve around personal wealth? Why do we wage wars, instead of loving our enemies and turn the other cheek? We are more like Rome than we want to admit.
...
Does that make me 'Christian'? Far from it. I makes me a human that believes Christ's lessons are good lessons and that we should try to live our lives based upon the Humanity that God has given us. I don't believe in the whole 'Jesus is God' thing that the Bible has built Him up as... but, look towards His teachings instead.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Genesis chapter eleven verse ten
Explains the geneology of Chem
Chem was a black man, in Africa
If you repeat this fact they can't laugh at ya
Genesis fourteen verse thirteen
Abraham steps on the scene
Being a descendent of Chem which is a fact
Means, Abraham too was black
Abraham born in the city of a black man
Called Nimrod grandson of Kam
Kam had four sons, one was named Canaan
Here, let me do some explaining
Abraham was the father of Isaac
Isaac was the father of Jacob
Jacob had twelve sons, for real
And these, were the children of Isreal
According to Genesis chapter ten
Egyptains descended from {Hahm,Kam}
Six hundred years later, my brother, read up
Moses was born in Egypt
In this era black Egyptians weren't right
They enslaved black Isrealites
Moses had to be of the black race
Because he spent fourty years in Pharoah's place
He passed as the Pharoah's grandson
So he had to look just like him
Yes my brothers and sisters take this here song
Yo, correct the wrong
The information we get today is just wack
But ask yourself, why is that?
Arab? No, He was a Jew. He set out to shepperd in the lost children of Israel away from the corruption of the Temple Priests and towards the source of our humaity, God.
I, for one, believe Jesus was a real historic person. Jesus did not invent Christianity, He brought about teachings that i, personally, believe are words to live by. I believe His teachings are pure, but the Church that claims Him at their center is corrupt. The earliest Christian Church is the Church of Rome. Later sects broke from that foundation but all of them follow the basic foundations of the source. The source not being Jesus' teaching, rather the Bible that was founded by the early Catholic Church. The rituals and ceremonies may differ, but they all use the same playbook.
If people consider America as a Christian Nation... why are we so far from the teachings of Christ? Why does everything in our lives revolve around personal wealth? Why do we wage wars, instead of loving our enemies and turn the other cheek? We are more like Rome than we want to admit.
...
Does that make me 'Christian'? Far from it. I makes me a human that believes Christ's lessons are good lessons and that we should try to live our lives based upon the Humanity that God has given us. I don't believe in the whole 'Jesus is God' thing that the Bible has built Him up as... but, look towards His teachings instead.
Very well put, I could not agree more
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
The historical, the actual, the living and breathing Jesus was a Jew. As Cosmo said, he did not invent or start Christianity. The Roman Emperor Constantine was responsible for the widespread Christianity that we know today. Jesus was an orrator, a very charismatic leader with a large following. People loved to listen to him. Did he walk on water, rise from the dead, cure the blind? NO!! Get real. The bible is a set of books written by MEN!! Do not take it literally. It does hold a lot of lessons that we all should adhere by if we want to live moral lives and be good people. Billions have died in the name of religion (The Crusades, Middle East today, 9/11, etc...) Is that really what jesus or God wants from us? I don't think so. The catholic church today is a joke!! Jesus preached to accept people for who they are, for their differences, to love no matter what, and to forgive those who do ill towards you. Yet, just one of the many calamaties of the catholic church is them not accepting homosexuals. Once again, GET REAL!! People are born gay, Evolution is a FACT, etc... I am a deist, I believe there is something else higher than us, and I'd like to believe there is a better life after this one. I don't need to go to church to be spiritual. Like Lennon said, imagine no religion. Wow, what a concept. Religion is a huge downfall to our world. Mine is better than yours, my god is better than yours. We are here for a short period of time in the grand timeline of the world, make the best of it, learn from your mistakes, treat others how you want to be treated, be patient and kind, and do the best you can. That's what my God wants, I don't think he wants me blowing myself up in a subway system, or beating someone cause they are an Arab. Common sense people. Morality is an instinct we all have.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
We are here for a short period of time in the grand timeline of the world, make the best of it, learn from your mistakes, treat others how you want to be treated, be patient and kind, and do the best you can. That's what my God wants, I don't think he wants me blowing myself up in a subway system, or beating someone cause they are an Arab. Common sense people. Morality is an instinct we all have.
The historical, the actual, the living and breathing Jesus was a Jew.
Except for the fact that there's absolutely no historical evidence supporting the existence of the Biblical Jesus.
Sure, I don't have the evidence, and as far as I know you are correct in saying that. I should have said that it is my belief that Jesus did exist, and although I do not read or believe much that is said in the bible, I take the belief that at the very least he was a person from there.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Good question. I believe that there is a higher power that has no influence on what takes place in our lives, or what happens in our world. I do not believe that God or a God created the universe, the world, us and everything around us. I tend to believe that religion is a myth that has caused so many so much pain. However, for those who live a morally good life because of their faith and beliefs, well then to me thats what god or God or whoever is for. If there is a god or not, if their are people who lives good lives because of their belief in one, then I am all for it. My God or god, doesnt matter, wants us to live a moral life, treat each other with respect and love, not the way things are today. Sorry if my answer is vague, it is a tough question. Let's say that when I say god, it is not in reference to any religion, like I have said before, I am a deist.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Good question. I believe that there is a higher power that has no influence on what takes place in our lives, or what happens in our world. I do not believe that God or a God created the universe, the world, us and everything around us. I tend to believe that religion is a myth that has caused so many so much pain. However, for those who live a morally good life because of their faith and beliefs, well then to me thats what god or God or whoever is for. If there is a god or not, if their are people who lives good lives because of their belief in one, then I am all for it. My God or god, doesnt matter, wants us to live a moral life, treat each other with respect and love, not the way things are today. Sorry if my answer is vague, it is a tough question. Let's say that when I say god, it is not in reference to any religion, like I have said before, I am a deist.
You remind me of Martin Gardner, a great man. Very well put!
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Writings written some 50 years after the event by a group of people with a vested interest in promoting their own peculiar religious beliefs.
...
You have to remember... Jesus, at the time of His death... was a marginal figure with a marginal following in a minor territory of the Roman Empire. His legend grew by stories told and re-told by His followers.
And remember the group Jesus hung with... lepers and whores. Not the rich who were able to pay the temple priests of the time. Probably not the most learned of the tribe back then. The earliest sect of Christianity was a sect of Judaism.
As Christianity grew... the name of Jesus became more prominent.
...
Does this prove Jesus existed? No. Just as the lack of documentation does not mean He didn't exist.
...
'Someone' is at the source of Christianity. Those early Jews/followers of Christ got their inspiration from someone.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Believers confuse faith with fact, it's very mature of you to put it on those words
Thank you for the kind words. That right there is my problem with all faiths. Most believers forget that it is a faith, which to me is a belief in something that you don't know to be true. Like a father having faith that his son will have a great little league game or something, he doesn't know the outcome until it is over. No one knows for sure if there is a god or if Jesus existed, I agree that there isn't much evidence of his physical existence. I guess I am agnostic in a lot of ways. I like to believe that there is something better after this life here, that's my belief, not a fact. The catholic church amongst so many other faiths force it upon you, and as we all very well know, will kill you if you don't believe. Plus I like to say I am logical and sensical, that right there would make religion all wrong.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Thank you for the kind words. That right there is my problem with all faiths. Most believers forget that it is a faith, which to me is a belief in something that you don't know to be true. Like a father having faith that his son will have a great little league game or something, he doesn't know the outcome until it is over. No one knows for sure if there is a god or if Jesus existed, I agree that there isn't much evidence of his physical existence. I guess I am agnostic in a lot of ways. I like to believe that there is something better after this life here, that's my belief, not a fact. The catholic church amongst so many other faiths force it upon you, and as we all very well know, will kill you if you don't believe. Plus I like to say I am logical and sensical, that right there would make religion all wrong.
...
I agree with what you say. I hear from religious folks that they know the 'Truth'. When the truth is... they don't know. They may BELEIVE and/or have FAITH in something such as God, Jesus or Heaven... but, they don't know it as the Truth. People can truely believe in something... doesn't mean it's true.
I also believe in a God or something that is much greater than our miniscule existance on this tiny blur pebble, rocketing through space... difference being, I KNOW I don't know. And I will probably never know in this plane of existance.
The only truth I know for sure... I am going to die. So, until that day comes... I'm going to enjoy this life.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I agree with what you say. I hear from religious folks that they know the 'Truth'. When the truth is... they don't know. They may BELEIVE and/or have FAITH in something such as God, Jesus or Heaven... but, they don't know it as the Truth. People can truely believe in something... doesn't mean it's true.
I also believe in a God or something that is much greater than our miniscule existance on this tiny blur pebble, rocketing through space... difference being, I KNOW I don't know. And I will probably never know in this plane of existance.
The only truth I know for sure... I am going to die. So, until that day comes... I'm going to enjoy this life.[/quote]
Well said!! "I know I was born and I know I will die..." Truth is we are all agnostics, but religion is not going anywhere.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
I should also point out that I don't need to know if Jesus existed or not in order to believe in a higher force. Not Muhammed or Allah, Jesus, Moses, or anyone. I do believe Jesus existed, but that has nothing to do with my faith and spiritual belief. I just relate to him more cause I was raised catholic, thats all.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Good question. I believe that there is a higher power that has no influence on what takes place in our lives, or what happens in our world. I do not believe that God or a God created the universe, the world, us and everything around us. I tend to believe that religion is a myth that has caused so many so much pain. However, for those who live a morally good life because of their faith and beliefs, well then to me thats what god or God or whoever is for. If there is a god or not, if their are people who live good lives because of their belief in one, then I am all for it. My God or god, doesnt matter, wants us to live a moral life, treat each other with respect and love, not the way things are today. Sorry if my answer is vague, it is a tough question. Let's say that when I say god, it is not in reference to any religion, like I have said before, I am a deist.[/quote]
I can respect that position.
Although Deists believe that 'God' created the universe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism 'Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature that he configured when he created all things.'
Comments
I think you guys are both wrong about Joshepus, it is actually this guy :
http://www.nucountry.com.au/images/arti ... amsjr3.jpg
Haha, awesome pic.
I, for one, believe Jesus was a real historic person. Jesus did not invent Christianity, He brought about teachings that i, personally, believe are words to live by. I believe His teachings are pure, but the Church that claims Him at their center is corrupt. The earliest Christian Church is the Church of Rome. Later sects broke from that foundation but all of them follow the basic foundations of the source. The source not being Jesus' teaching, rather the Bible that was founded by the early Catholic Church. The rituals and ceremonies may differ, but they all use the same playbook.
If people consider America as a Christian Nation... why are we so far from the teachings of Christ? Why does everything in our lives revolve around personal wealth? Why do we wage wars, instead of loving our enemies and turn the other cheek? We are more like Rome than we want to admit.
...
Does that make me 'Christian'? Far from it. I makes me a human that believes Christ's lessons are good lessons and that we should try to live our lives based upon the Humanity that God has given us. I don't believe in the whole 'Jesus is God' thing that the Bible has built Him up as... but, look towards His teachings instead.
Hail, Hail!!!
Missoula 6/20/98
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BDP: Why is that?
Genesis chapter eleven verse ten
Explains the geneology of Chem
Chem was a black man, in Africa
If you repeat this fact they can't laugh at ya
Genesis fourteen verse thirteen
Abraham steps on the scene
Being a descendent of Chem which is a fact
Means, Abraham too was black
Abraham born in the city of a black man
Called Nimrod grandson of Kam
Kam had four sons, one was named Canaan
Here, let me do some explaining
Abraham was the father of Isaac
Isaac was the father of Jacob
Jacob had twelve sons, for real
And these, were the children of Isreal
According to Genesis chapter ten
Egyptains descended from {Hahm,Kam}
Six hundred years later, my brother, read up
Moses was born in Egypt
In this era black Egyptians weren't right
They enslaved black Isrealites
Moses had to be of the black race
Because he spent fourty years in Pharoah's place
He passed as the Pharoah's grandson
So he had to look just like him
Yes my brothers and sisters take this here song
Yo, correct the wrong
The information we get today is just wack
But ask yourself, why is that?
Maybe because the word 'Arab' has nothing in common with the word 'Anti-Christ'. Claiming that someone is, or was, an Arab is not an insult.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Not Kansas, but he wasn't from Algeria either.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
everyone has a soul.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think the Gnostic Gospels should be revived and popularized and that the Old and New Testaments should be sidelined.
Very well put, I could not agree more
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Except for the fact that there's absolutely no historical evidence supporting the existence of the Biblical Jesus.
What do you mean by 'God'?
:thumbup: The fact that there's some writings about a guy who supposedly lived 2000 years ago is not enough evidence of his existence.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Writings written some 50 years after the event by a group of people with a vested interest in promoting their own peculiar religious beliefs.
Except for the fact that there's absolutely no historical evidence supporting the existence of the Biblical Jesus.
Sure, I don't have the evidence, and as far as I know you are correct in saying that. I should have said that it is my belief that Jesus did exist, and although I do not read or believe much that is said in the bible, I take the belief that at the very least he was a person from there.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
Good question. I believe that there is a higher power that has no influence on what takes place in our lives, or what happens in our world. I do not believe that God or a God created the universe, the world, us and everything around us. I tend to believe that religion is a myth that has caused so many so much pain. However, for those who live a morally good life because of their faith and beliefs, well then to me thats what god or God or whoever is for. If there is a god or not, if their are people who lives good lives because of their belief in one, then I am all for it. My God or god, doesnt matter, wants us to live a moral life, treat each other with respect and love, not the way things are today. Sorry if my answer is vague, it is a tough question. Let's say that when I say god, it is not in reference to any religion, like I have said before, I am a deist.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
You remind me of Martin Gardner, a great man. Very well put!
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
You have to remember... Jesus, at the time of His death... was a marginal figure with a marginal following in a minor territory of the Roman Empire. His legend grew by stories told and re-told by His followers.
And remember the group Jesus hung with... lepers and whores. Not the rich who were able to pay the temple priests of the time. Probably not the most learned of the tribe back then. The earliest sect of Christianity was a sect of Judaism.
As Christianity grew... the name of Jesus became more prominent.
...
Does this prove Jesus existed? No. Just as the lack of documentation does not mean He didn't exist.
...
'Someone' is at the source of Christianity. Those early Jews/followers of Christ got their inspiration from someone.
Hail, Hail!!!
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Thx u again, very kind of you. Embarrassed to say it but I do not know who he is. I will Wiki him now.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Well he was a mathematician and an skeptic but he was a deist, a VERY honorable deist.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I agree with what you say. I hear from religious folks that they know the 'Truth'. When the truth is... they don't know. They may BELEIVE and/or have FAITH in something such as God, Jesus or Heaven... but, they don't know it as the Truth. People can truely believe in something... doesn't mean it's true.
I also believe in a God or something that is much greater than our miniscule existance on this tiny blur pebble, rocketing through space... difference being, I KNOW I don't know. And I will probably never know in this plane of existance.
The only truth I know for sure... I am going to die. So, until that day comes... I'm going to enjoy this life.
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree with what you say. I hear from religious folks that they know the 'Truth'. When the truth is... they don't know. They may BELEIVE and/or have FAITH in something such as God, Jesus or Heaven... but, they don't know it as the Truth. People can truely believe in something... doesn't mean it's true.
I also believe in a God or something that is much greater than our miniscule existance on this tiny blur pebble, rocketing through space... difference being, I KNOW I don't know. And I will probably never know in this plane of existance.
The only truth I know for sure... I am going to die. So, until that day comes... I'm going to enjoy this life.[/quote]
Well said!! "I know I was born and I know I will die..." Truth is we are all agnostics, but religion is not going anywhere.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
Good question. I believe that there is a higher power that has no influence on what takes place in our lives, or what happens in our world. I do not believe that God or a God created the universe, the world, us and everything around us. I tend to believe that religion is a myth that has caused so many so much pain. However, for those who live a morally good life because of their faith and beliefs, well then to me thats what god or God or whoever is for. If there is a god or not, if their are people who live good lives because of their belief in one, then I am all for it. My God or god, doesnt matter, wants us to live a moral life, treat each other with respect and love, not the way things are today. Sorry if my answer is vague, it is a tough question. Let's say that when I say god, it is not in reference to any religion, like I have said before, I am a deist.[/quote]
I can respect that position.
Although Deists believe that 'God' created the universe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
'Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature that he configured when he created all things.'
As I pointed out above. I believe the character of Jesus is based on someone having lived approx 1500 years earlier within the 18th Dynasty of Egypt.