Israel Attacks Aid Convoy - Many Deaths Reported

redrock

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

that is the only reason i would even guess they would use the drop in from above tactic. if anyone would ever read "the art of war" you would know that one of the main premises is "never leave the high ground" and "never attack an enemy that is on high ground" (i am paraphrasing of course) because whomever has the higher ground, in this case the soldiers, has an amazing advantage. why would the israelis risk their soldiers in this way and in such a dramatic fashion?? it does not make any sense to me at all.
.

As they also boarded from the side (sorry for lack of technical terms!), arriving safely on deck, guns pointed ahead, it does make you wonder.

AELARA

It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

Yet again today the U.S has defended Israel at the U.N Security Council and blocked calls for an independent investigation into the killings on the aid flotilla:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... lotilla-us
'...The United States has blocked demands at the UN security council for an international inquiry into Israel's assault on the Turkish ship carrying aid to Gaza that left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead.

A compromise statement instead calls for an impartial investigation which Washington indicated could be carried out by Israel.

...The Americans also blocked criticism of Israel for violating international law by assaulting a ship in international waters...'

The U.S stands alone in the world in preventing a peaceful settlement to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Every year at the U.N the following resolution - based on 242 - is vetoed by the U.S in defiance of the whole of the international community.
We have Israel and the U.S on one side and the whole world - barring a few South Pacific Islands - on the other side. This is why Israel will continue to run amok in the world, in breach of international law, and why further atrocities will be committed and go unpunished:

Peaceful Settlement of The Question of Palestine
November 26, 2008, the United Nations General Assembly, as it does every year, voted on a resolution to end the Israel Palestine conflict. The GA/ 10791 (documents A/63/L.35; A/63/L.36) called for a two state settlement on the 1967 borders, East Jerusalem for the Palestinian State (west for Israel), and a “just” resolution to the refugee problem

The draft resolution on the peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine (document A/63/L.35) was adopted by a recorded vote of 164 in favour to 7 against, with 3 abstentions, as follows:

In favour:Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

Against: Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, United States.

as an australian i feel shame for my governments decision.

Byrnzie

I wonder if the Americans would have been as happy if North Korea had conducted the investigation into the sinking of the South Korean ship?
Yet they trust Israel to investigate themselves. Just like they did after their bombardment of Gaza.

Truly pathetic!

Byrnzie

Mark Regev interviewed about Gaza Freedom Flotilla by Jon Snow on Channel 4, 1 June 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_tL74

catefrances

AELARA wrote:

It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.

but tis not just NOW. israel has always used some sort of 'abuse' to maintain their 'legitimacy'.

Austicman

http://www.smh.com.au/national/freed-jo ... utostart=1

Freed journos tell of Israeli commandos like 'hyenas hunting' NADIA JAMAL
June 3, 2010 - 12:53PM

The Sydney Morning Herald's chief correspondent Paul McGeough told of being aboard one of the Gaza aid flotilla vessels and seeing shadows of the Israeli navy's Zodiac boats circling.

He said it felt like "hyenas hunting animals in the night".

When the commandos attacked the flotilla, it resulted in nine dead.

With photographer Kate Geraghty, McGeough arrived in Istanbul today on a Turkish military flight after being held in an Israeli prison since Monday.

Speaking by phone for the first time after touching down in Istanbul, McGeough told smh.com.au that he and Geraghty were "in good shape" although "Kate and I got pushed around".

He said that tension had been rising "for some hours" in the lead-up to the early morning confrontation with the flotilla.

He said the Israelis then "moved in suddenly from both sides".

A phone was snatched from his hand.

"One of the activists had a gun pulled on her," McGeough said.

He said that it was a "scary and frightening" time but that paint pellets, not live ammunition, had been used on the boat he was on, Challenger One.

The incident was "very ugly" and "testosterone-driven", McGeough said, and commandos had stood over activists in a "bullying" way.

Israel has rejected calls for a commission of inquiry into the events surrounding Monday's confrontation.

But it has faced international condemnation after it raided the convoy of activists and aid workers on their way to Gaza to break an Israeli blockade on the strip.

Nine people were killed in the confrontation but Israel maintains that its commandos were attacked by the protesters.

Geraghty believes she was hit by a stun gun fired by Israeli commandos after they boarded her ship.

She suffered bruises, minor burns and nausea.

Geraghty said today that she was safe and "very happy" to have been released from detention.

While she had been "frightened" during the confrontation, she said her injuries were "minor" compared with what happened to others on board the boats.

It was early morning in Istanbul and both journalists were waiting at the airport to access equipment, including cameras, that were confiscated by the Israelis.

The confiscation was "an absolute disrespect by Israel" for democracy and the fundamental rights of journalists, McGeough said.

The Herald's editor, Peter Fray, said he was elated that he could speak to McGeough and Geraghty and relieved that they were out of prison.

He said he was angry at how they had been treated.

He said the Herald would pursue all legal, moral, ethical and journalistic avenues to ensure his staff "are able to do their jobs as bona fide and excellent journalists".

McGeough said that he would fight his deportation from Israel in absentia.

Fairfax Media chief executive and managing director Brian McCarthy spoke to McGeough soon after he landed in Istanbul today.

"I am very proud of the courage and professionalism they have shown in covering this very important story under extremely difficult circumstances," he said.

"I look forward to reading their eyewitness account in tomorrow's Sydney Morning Herald."

One Australian remains injured in an Israeli hospital and two other Australians were among last night's group of deportees.

Pepe Silvia

Byrnzie wrote:

Mark Regev interviewed about Gaza Freedom Flotilla by Jon Snow on Channel 4, 1 June 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_tL74

are you going to apologize to them (turkey)?
..........for what?
for killing their nationals
it's not really clear what happened.....

Pepe Silvia

Pepe Silvia wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Mark Regev interviewed about Gaza Freedom Flotilla by Jon Snow on Channel 4, 1 June 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_tL74

are you going to apologize to them (turkey)?
..........for what?
for killing their nationals
it's not really clear what happened.....

jon snow said turkey is sending a warship to accompany the next flotilla

Byrnzie

The Palestinians are the only colonized indigenous people in history to be treated as the aggressor and their colonizer as the victim. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

Byrnzie

Pepe Silvia wrote:

jon snow said turkey is sending a warship to accompany the next flotilla

Turkey is a member of Nato so I see nothing wrong with these ships being protected by Nato forces against any further Israeli aggression.

AELARA

catefrances wrote:

AELARA wrote:

It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.

but tis not just NOW. israel has always used some sort of 'abuse' to maintain their 'legitimacy'.

You're right.

rafie

To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...

As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.

gimmesometruth27

rafie wrote:

To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...

As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.

it was predawn under the cover of darkness for fucks sakes...and in international waters....= piracy...

flywallyfly

rafie wrote:

To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...

As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.

So the commandos left the ship, turned in their paintball weapons, and then returned to the ship and fired bullets? I thought the activists took away some of their weapons and that is why they fired on them - so they took their paintball guns? Did the Israelis drop a shipment of guns down to them when the activists refused to drop down and play dead after being hit with a paintball? I'm so confused :roll: Those poor commandos.

Pepe Silvia

rafie wrote:

To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...

no one ever said they didn't have paintball guns, just that wasn't ALL they had. maybe you can explain how at least 9 people die from paintball guns?

rafie wrote:

As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.

the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)

Pepe Silvia

odd, this newscast has an israeli official saying people on the boat took guns from the commandos and some of their soldiers were wounded with them....but i thought they had nothing but paintball guns, rafie?????

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 43674.html

she said they took guns from the first wave of commandos that arrived on the boat and emptied their clips firing at the other commandos and people on the boats say the 2nd wave opened fire before they even got on the boat

rafie

Please show me where I posted that the only thing that the soilders were armed with was the paintball guns.
I never denied the fact that they had their personal side arms on them too. The orders were to use those sidearms ONLY FOR SELF DEFENSE. Once again, you can clearly see in the link I posted in the first pages of the thread that they are using the paint ball guns.
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were brutally attacked.

Pepe Silvia wrote:

no one ever said they didn't have paintball guns, just that wasn't ALL they had.

Actually, plenty of you had said that they did not have paintball guns. Just re-read the thread.

Pepe Silvia wrote:

the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)

Already addressed earlier by Yossi. Don't know why you keep bringing it up.

Pepe Silvia

rafie wrote:

Please show me where I posted that the only thing that the soilders were armed with was the paintball guns.
I never denied the fact that they had their personal side arms on them too. The orders were to use those sidearms ONLY FOR SELF DEFENSE. Once again, you can clearly see in the link I posted in the first pages of the thread that they are using the paint ball guns.
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were brutally attacked.

Pepe Silvia wrote:

no one ever said they didn't have paintball guns, just that wasn't ALL they had.

Actually, plenty of you had said that they did not have paintball guns. Just re-read the thread.

Pepe Silvia wrote:

the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)

Already addressed earlier by Yossi. Don't know why you keep bringing it up.

and i don't know why you and yosi refuse to answer me when i ask you who has found the blockade to be legal and to name the countries that support it since it was said by 1 of you that "virtually every world power supports it"

i didn't see anyone say they didn't have paintball guns, just that people died so they obviously had more than that.

rafie

Here you go:

badbrains wrote:

Paint balls??????? You fucking kidding me!???? Oh, you probably work for the propoganda machine there. How can you defend this? Ya they planned on attacking Israel. What a fucken joke!!! Ya let's attack the big bully, they won't fight back! I can't believe you guys believe your own lies.