that is the only reason i would even guess they would use the drop in from above tactic. if anyone would ever read "the art of war" you would know that one of the main premises is "never leave the high ground" and "never attack an enemy that is on high ground" (i am paraphrasing of course) because whomever has the higher ground, in this case the soldiers, has an amazing advantage. why would the israelis risk their soldiers in this way and in such a dramatic fashion?? it does not make any sense to me at all.
.
As they also boarded from the side (sorry for lack of technical terms!), arriving safely on deck, guns pointed ahead, it does make you wonder.
It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.
Yet again today the U.S has defended Israel at the U.N Security Council and blocked calls for an independent investigation into the killings on the aid flotilla:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... lotilla-us '...The United States has blocked demands at the UN security council for an international inquiry into Israel's assault on the Turkish ship carrying aid to Gaza that left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead.
A compromise statement instead calls for an impartial investigation which Washington indicated could be carried out by Israel.
...The Americans also blocked criticism of Israel for violating international law by assaulting a ship in international waters...'
The U.S stands alone in the world in preventing a peaceful settlement to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Every year at the U.N the following resolution - based on 242 - is vetoed by the U.S in defiance of the whole of the international community.
We have Israel and the U.S on one side and the whole world - barring a few South Pacific Islands - on the other side. This is why Israel will continue to run amok in the world, in breach of international law, and why further atrocities will be committed and go unpunished:
Peaceful Settlement of The Question of Palestine
November 26, 2008, the United Nations General Assembly, as it does every year, voted on a resolution to end the Israel Palestine conflict. The GA/ 10791 (documents A/63/L.35; A/63/L.36) called for a two state settlement on the 1967 borders, East Jerusalem for the Palestinian State (west for Israel), and a “just” resolution to the refugee problem
The draft resolution on the peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine (document A/63/L.35) was adopted by a recorded vote of 164 in favour to 7 against, with 3 abstentions, as follows:
In favour:Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Bulgaria, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chile, China, Colombia, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Latvia, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.
Against: Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, United States.
as an australian i feel shame for my governments decision.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I wonder if the Americans would have been as happy if North Korea had conducted the investigation into the sinking of the South Korean ship?
Yet they trust Israel to investigate themselves. Just like they did after their bombardment of Gaza.
It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.
but tis not just NOW. israel has always used some sort of 'abuse' to maintain their 'legitimacy'.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Freed journos tell of Israeli commandos like 'hyenas hunting' NADIA JAMAL
June 3, 2010 - 12:53PM
The Sydney Morning Herald's chief correspondent Paul McGeough told of being aboard one of the Gaza aid flotilla vessels and seeing shadows of the Israeli navy's Zodiac boats circling.
He said it felt like "hyenas hunting animals in the night".
When the commandos attacked the flotilla, it resulted in nine dead.
With photographer Kate Geraghty, McGeough arrived in Istanbul today on a Turkish military flight after being held in an Israeli prison since Monday.
Speaking by phone for the first time after touching down in Istanbul, McGeough told smh.com.au that he and Geraghty were "in good shape" although "Kate and I got pushed around".
He said that tension had been rising "for some hours" in the lead-up to the early morning confrontation with the flotilla.
He said the Israelis then "moved in suddenly from both sides".
A phone was snatched from his hand.
"One of the activists had a gun pulled on her," McGeough said.
He said that it was a "scary and frightening" time but that paint pellets, not live ammunition, had been used on the boat he was on, Challenger One.
The incident was "very ugly" and "testosterone-driven", McGeough said, and commandos had stood over activists in a "bullying" way.
Israel has rejected calls for a commission of inquiry into the events surrounding Monday's confrontation.
But it has faced international condemnation after it raided the convoy of activists and aid workers on their way to Gaza to break an Israeli blockade on the strip.
Nine people were killed in the confrontation but Israel maintains that its commandos were attacked by the protesters.
Geraghty believes she was hit by a stun gun fired by Israeli commandos after they boarded her ship.
She suffered bruises, minor burns and nausea.
Geraghty said today that she was safe and "very happy" to have been released from detention.
While she had been "frightened" during the confrontation, she said her injuries were "minor" compared with what happened to others on board the boats.
It was early morning in Istanbul and both journalists were waiting at the airport to access equipment, including cameras, that were confiscated by the Israelis.
The confiscation was "an absolute disrespect by Israel" for democracy and the fundamental rights of journalists, McGeough said.
The Herald's editor, Peter Fray, said he was elated that he could speak to McGeough and Geraghty and relieved that they were out of prison.
He said he was angry at how they had been treated.
He said the Herald would pursue all legal, moral, ethical and journalistic avenues to ensure his staff "are able to do their jobs as bona fide and excellent journalists".
McGeough said that he would fight his deportation from Israel in absentia.
Fairfax Media chief executive and managing director Brian McCarthy spoke to McGeough soon after he landed in Istanbul today.
"I am very proud of the courage and professionalism they have shown in covering this very important story under extremely difficult circumstances," he said.
"I look forward to reading their eyewitness account in tomorrow's Sydney Morning Herald."
One Australian remains injured in an Israeli hospital and two other Australians were among last night's group of deportees.
are you going to apologize to them (turkey)?
..........for what?
for killing their nationals
it's not really clear what happened.....
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
are you going to apologize to them (turkey)?
..........for what?
for killing their nationals
it's not really clear what happened.....
jon snow said turkey is sending a warship to accompany the next flotilla
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
The Palestinians are the only colonized indigenous people in history to be treated as the aggressor and their colonizer as the victim. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
It's a pity that a nation that has suffered so many things for so many years, now turns now into an international abuser. And of course I'm not talking about all the people of Israel.
but tis not just NOW. israel has always used some sort of 'abuse' to maintain their 'legitimacy'.
To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
it was predawn under the cover of darkness for fucks sakes...and in international waters....= piracy...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
So the commandos left the ship, turned in their paintball weapons, and then returned to the ship and fired bullets? I thought the activists took away some of their weapons and that is why they fired on them - so they took their paintball guns? Did the Israelis drop a shipment of guns down to them when the activists refused to drop down and play dead after being hit with a paintball? I'm so confused :roll: Those poor commandos.
To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...
no one ever said they didn't have paintball guns, just that wasn't ALL they had. maybe you can explain how at least 9 people die from paintball guns?
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
odd, this newscast has an israeli official saying people on the boat took guns from the commandos and some of their soldiers were wounded with them....but i thought they had nothing but paintball guns, rafie?????
she said they took guns from the first wave of commandos that arrived on the boat and emptied their clips firing at the other commandos and people on the boats say the 2nd wave opened fire before they even got on the boat
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Please show me where I posted that the only thing that the soilders were armed with was the paintball guns.
I never denied the fact that they had their personal side arms on them too. The orders were to use those sidearms ONLY FOR SELF DEFENSE. Once again, you can clearly see in the link I posted in the first pages of the thread that they are using the paint ball guns.
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were brutally attacked.
the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)
Already addressed earlier by Yossi. Don't know why you keep bringing it up.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Please show me where I posted that the only thing that the soilders were armed with was the paintball guns.
I never denied the fact that they had their personal side arms on them too. The orders were to use those sidearms ONLY FOR SELF DEFENSE. Once again, you can clearly see in the link I posted in the first pages of the thread that they are using the paint ball guns.
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were brutally attacked.
the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)
Already addressed earlier by Yossi. Don't know why you keep bringing it up.
and i don't know why you and yosi refuse to answer me when i ask you who has found the blockade to be legal and to name the countries that support it since it was said by 1 of you that "virtually every world power supports it"
i didn't see anyone say they didn't have paintball guns, just that people died so they obviously had more than that.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Paint balls??????? You fucking kidding me!???? Oh, you probably work for the propoganda machine there. How can you defend this? Ya they planned on attacking Israel. What a fucken joke!!! Ya let's attack the big bully, they won't fight back! I can't believe you guys believe your own lies.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Do people get killed by paintball guns when they have their paintball outings (children included)? Please.... be real. LIVE ammo - probably 19 KILLED & lots injured. Don't try to tell us that his was an IDF paintball outing :roll:
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
none of those said they didn't have paintball guns, they were said in response to you saying
"Israeli soilders boardered the ships armed with paintball rifles instead of live ammunition in order to prevent injuries of the activists."
and BEFORE you said
"Once the soilders were physically attacked by the "peace activists" with metal bars, knives, guns and more They reacted with live fire felling that they were in a life threatining situation."
they were responding to your initial post saying they boarded with paintball rifles INSTEAD OF live ammunition (doesn't 'instead of' mean they didn't have them at all??) and questioning how the people died since they had paintball guns INSTEAD OF live ammo
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I don't have to respond to Rafie because Pepe did. Again, Rafie trying to deflect. Activists are being released, telling their story. The whole truth will come out now. Sadly any footage taken by the activists (journalists, etc. that were there) has been confiscated and therefore it will only be Israel's images. Unless some have managed to hide something.
I find it absolutley shocking that people are defending Israel's over zelous actions. Not just with the ship but with the blockade in general.
pride
the primary defenders of israel on here are jewish ... their views and perspective of the situation is different than others ... i do think that a couple of them offer some objectivity which is important in this debate ... a couple - not so much ...
I don't have to respond to Rafie because Pepe did. Again, Rafie trying to deflect. Activists are being released, telling their story. The whole truth will come out now. Sadly any footage taken by the activists (journalists, etc. that were there) has been confiscated and therefore it will only be Israel's images. Unless some have managed to hide something.
i doubt they will give the footage back, in fact they have already used some. that footage of them squirting the commandos with water had to be from a confiscated camera as it was right there next to the source of the water looking down on the commandos.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I find it absolutley shocking that people are defending Israel's over zelous actions. Not just with the ship but with the blockade in general.
pride
the primary defenders of israel on here are jewish ... their views and perspective of the situation is different than others ... i do think that a couple of them offer some objectivity which is important in this debate ... a couple - not so much ...
It's always puzzled me why being Jewish means for some people that they must defend Israel at all costs. Especially when you consider that most Jewish intellectuals have traditionallly been left wing in their politics, and that some of the most vociferous critics of Israel's crimes have been Jewish - Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein e.t.c.
I also find it strange that Israel's apologists think they're doing Israel a favour by attempting to defend the occupation and all of the atrocities it commits? How are they helping Israel? They're not helping it at all. All they're doing is helping to bring about it's eventual destruction. A country cannot run amok in the world spreading terror and oppression unhindered without one day being made to pay the price. This lunatic state is curently on a one-way road to disaster. Surely someone who feels genuine love and/or concern for Israel would be a vocal critic of the current leadership of liers and murderers instead of trying to help perpetuate the lunacy and violence?
To all the people who kept rolling their eyes when I repeatedly wrote that the forces initially bordered the ships with paint ball guns One of the activist on the convoy actually confirms it (It's in the article posted by Austicman a couple of post up)! Shocking when the truth interferes with the bubble you put around yourself...
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
In the instance that I posted about that was what occurred on one boat. There was no fatalities on that boat either(although they still found it necessary to tazer a female journalist) . It's has been called a flotilla because there was more than one boat in the convoy and in that flotilla people were killed with live ammo. Another instanced of soemone trying to twist the facts to fit in with their on agenda.
The bottom line is that they were boarded in international waters and no amount of reasoning or explaining why it occured is going to make it right. If the people on the ship resisted when the Israeli army attempted to board them they were well within their rights to do so under international law unlike the troops that attempted to board them and then tried to justify using live ammo as defending themselves. What a crock.
Comments
As they also boarded from the side (sorry for lack of technical terms!), arriving safely on deck, guns pointed ahead, it does make you wonder.
as an australian i feel shame for my governments decision.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yet they trust Israel to investigate themselves. Just like they did after their bombardment of Gaza.
Truly pathetic!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_tL74
but tis not just NOW. israel has always used some sort of 'abuse' to maintain their 'legitimacy'.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Freed journos tell of Israeli commandos like 'hyenas hunting' NADIA JAMAL
June 3, 2010 - 12:53PM
The Sydney Morning Herald's chief correspondent Paul McGeough told of being aboard one of the Gaza aid flotilla vessels and seeing shadows of the Israeli navy's Zodiac boats circling.
He said it felt like "hyenas hunting animals in the night".
When the commandos attacked the flotilla, it resulted in nine dead.
With photographer Kate Geraghty, McGeough arrived in Istanbul today on a Turkish military flight after being held in an Israeli prison since Monday.
Speaking by phone for the first time after touching down in Istanbul, McGeough told smh.com.au that he and Geraghty were "in good shape" although "Kate and I got pushed around".
He said that tension had been rising "for some hours" in the lead-up to the early morning confrontation with the flotilla.
He said the Israelis then "moved in suddenly from both sides".
A phone was snatched from his hand.
"One of the activists had a gun pulled on her," McGeough said.
He said that it was a "scary and frightening" time but that paint pellets, not live ammunition, had been used on the boat he was on, Challenger One.
The incident was "very ugly" and "testosterone-driven", McGeough said, and commandos had stood over activists in a "bullying" way.
Israel has rejected calls for a commission of inquiry into the events surrounding Monday's confrontation.
But it has faced international condemnation after it raided the convoy of activists and aid workers on their way to Gaza to break an Israeli blockade on the strip.
Nine people were killed in the confrontation but Israel maintains that its commandos were attacked by the protesters.
Geraghty believes she was hit by a stun gun fired by Israeli commandos after they boarded her ship.
She suffered bruises, minor burns and nausea.
Geraghty said today that she was safe and "very happy" to have been released from detention.
While she had been "frightened" during the confrontation, she said her injuries were "minor" compared with what happened to others on board the boats.
It was early morning in Istanbul and both journalists were waiting at the airport to access equipment, including cameras, that were confiscated by the Israelis.
The confiscation was "an absolute disrespect by Israel" for democracy and the fundamental rights of journalists, McGeough said.
The Herald's editor, Peter Fray, said he was elated that he could speak to McGeough and Geraghty and relieved that they were out of prison.
He said he was angry at how they had been treated.
He said the Herald would pursue all legal, moral, ethical and journalistic avenues to ensure his staff "are able to do their jobs as bona fide and excellent journalists".
McGeough said that he would fight his deportation from Israel in absentia.
Fairfax Media chief executive and managing director Brian McCarthy spoke to McGeough soon after he landed in Istanbul today.
"I am very proud of the courage and professionalism they have shown in covering this very important story under extremely difficult circumstances," he said.
"I look forward to reading their eyewitness account in tomorrow's Sydney Morning Herald."
One Australian remains injured in an Israeli hospital and two other Australians were among last night's group of deportees.
are you going to apologize to them (turkey)?
..........for what?
for killing their nationals
it's not really clear what happened.....
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
jon snow said turkey is sending a warship to accompany the next flotilla
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Turkey is a member of Nato so I see nothing wrong with these ships being protected by Nato forces against any further Israeli aggression.
You're right.
As for those of you asking why Israel boarded the ships at dawn, did you ever stop to think it was because that was when the convoy arrived? For those of you who never served in the military, when you organize a mission, you usually decide on an imaginary circumference around you that you do not allow any one enter. It is less a matter of when as it is where.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
So the commandos left the ship, turned in their paintball weapons, and then returned to the ship and fired bullets? I thought the activists took away some of their weapons and that is why they fired on them - so they took their paintball guns? Did the Israelis drop a shipment of guns down to them when the activists refused to drop down and play dead after being hit with a paintball? I'm so confused :roll: Those poor commandos.
no one ever said they didn't have paintball guns, just that wasn't ALL they had. maybe you can explain how at least 9 people die from paintball guns?
the convoy arrived where???? they were in international waters until israel forcibly boarded the vessesl and took them over (which is illegal just as cutting all their communications and radar is)
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 43674.html
she said they took guns from the first wave of commandos that arrived on the boat and emptied their clips firing at the other commandos and people on the boats say the 2nd wave opened fire before they even got on the boat
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I never denied the fact that they had their personal side arms on them too. The orders were to use those sidearms ONLY FOR SELF DEFENSE. Once again, you can clearly see in the link I posted in the first pages of the thread that they are using the paint ball guns.
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were brutally attacked.
Actually, plenty of you had said that they did not have paintball guns. Just re-read the thread.
Already addressed earlier by Yossi. Don't know why you keep bringing it up.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
and i don't know why you and yosi refuse to answer me when i ask you who has found the blockade to be legal and to name the countries that support it since it was said by 1 of you that "virtually every world power supports it"
i didn't see anyone say they didn't have paintball guns, just that people died so they obviously had more than that.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
"Israeli soilders boardered the ships armed with paintball rifles instead of live ammunition in order to prevent injuries of the activists."
and BEFORE you said
"Once the soilders were physically attacked by the "peace activists" with metal bars, knives, guns and more They reacted with live fire felling that they were in a life threatining situation."
they were responding to your initial post saying they boarded with paintball rifles INSTEAD OF live ammunition (doesn't 'instead of' mean they didn't have them at all??) and questioning how the people died since they had paintball guns INSTEAD OF live ammo
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
pride
the primary defenders of israel on here are jewish ... their views and perspective of the situation is different than others ... i do think that a couple of them offer some objectivity which is important in this debate ... a couple - not so much ...
i doubt they will give the footage back, in fact they have already used some. that footage of them squirting the commandos with water had to be from a confiscated camera as it was right there next to the source of the water looking down on the commandos.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
It's always puzzled me why being Jewish means for some people that they must defend Israel at all costs. Especially when you consider that most Jewish intellectuals have traditionallly been left wing in their politics, and that some of the most vociferous critics of Israel's crimes have been Jewish - Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein e.t.c.
I also find it strange that Israel's apologists think they're doing Israel a favour by attempting to defend the occupation and all of the atrocities it commits? How are they helping Israel? They're not helping it at all. All they're doing is helping to bring about it's eventual destruction. A country cannot run amok in the world spreading terror and oppression unhindered without one day being made to pay the price. This lunatic state is curently on a one-way road to disaster. Surely someone who feels genuine love and/or concern for Israel would be a vocal critic of the current leadership of liers and murderers instead of trying to help perpetuate the lunacy and violence?
In the instance that I posted about that was what occurred on one boat. There was no fatalities on that boat either(although they still found it necessary to tazer a female journalist) . It's has been called a flotilla because there was more than one boat in the convoy and in that flotilla people were killed with live ammo. Another instanced of soemone trying to twist the facts to fit in with their on agenda.
The bottom line is that they were boarded in international waters and no amount of reasoning or explaining why it occured is going to make it right. If the people on the ship resisted when the Israeli army attempted to board them they were well within their rights to do so under international law unlike the troops that attempted to board them and then tried to justify using live ammo as defending themselves. What a crock.