Rafi sad:
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were BRUTALLY ATTACKED....
Not to get off subject but, what do you call what "your" COUNTRY'S leaders did to gaza a couple years ago? Please give me a word that describes what they did. If the that's what you call "brutally attacked" then what would you call gaza??? Please entertain me/us with a word best describing that. Take your time, no hurry....but make it good. :roll:
Paint balls??????? You fucking kidding me!???? Oh, you probably work for the propoganda machine there. How can you defend this? Ya they planned on attacking Israel. What a fucken joke!!! Ya let's attack the big bully, they won't fight back! I can't believe you guys believe your own lies.
Rafi, buddy, dnt forget the MARBLES to. Look bro, right is right and wrong is wrong. This shit is flat out WRONG and deep down INSIDE U know I'm right. Unless your body is soul-less without a heart.....
Paint balls??????? You fucking kidding me!???? Oh, you probably work for the propoganda machine there. How can you defend this? Ya they planned on attacking Israel. What a fucken joke!!! Ya let's attack the big bully, they won't fight back! I can't believe you guys believe your own lies.
Rafi, buddy, dnt forget the MARBLES to. Look bro, right is right and wrong is wrong. This shit is flat out WRONG and deep down INSIDE U know I'm right. Unless your body is soul-less without a heart.....
Don't get the wrong idea about America Rafie. Most of America supports Israel except for the hardcore left wing liberals that come to the train. The Train holds the leftist of the left.
Paint balls??????? You fucking kidding me!???? Oh, you probably work for the propoganda machine there. How can you defend this? Ya they planned on attacking Israel. What a fucken joke!!! Ya let's attack the big bully, they won't fight back! I can't believe you guys believe your own lies.[/quote][/quote]
Rafi, buddy, dnt forget the MARBLES to. Look bro, right is right and wrong is wrong. This shit is flat out WRONG and deep down INSIDE U know I'm right. Unless your body is soul-less without a heart.....[/quote]
Don't get the wrong idea about America Rafie. Most of America supports Israel except for the hardcore left wing liberals that come to the train. The Train holds the leftist of the left.[/quote]
You have NO clue about me. I'm NO liberal nor am I a CON-servative. I'm a human being who happens to like riding the MT line. Sorry to disappoint u my CON-servative friend, but I think BOTH parties are one in the same. Different name with same agendas. And most of America do NOT support Israel, just our lousy leaders who have no balls nor souls. So the whole world condems Israel except australia and the us, hmmm, the whole worlds wrong again. Thank god Americas here to right the ship.... :roll:
Rafi sad:
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were BRUTALLY ATTACKED....
Not to get off subject but, what do you call what "your" COUNTRY'S leaders did to gaza a couple years ago? Please give me a word that describes what they did. If the that's what you call "brutally attacked" then what would you call gaza??? Please entertain me/us with a word best describing that. Take your time, no hurry....but make it good. :roll:
Off topic.
I also addressed that issue in one of the threads started earlier this year on the subject. I see no reason to start it here too.
And my name is spelled with an E at the end.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Israeli soilders boardered the ships armed with paintball rifles instead of live ammunition in order to prevent injuries of the activists.
what did you mean by INSTEAD OF live ammunition, then??
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
all Greeks return today safe home
they come back with C-130 of Greek Airforce
just one question..
after keep their cameras, mobiles,any electronic device.their passports....
is there any special reason,to steal their money??
unbeliavable...they keep their money,their euros...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
after keep their cameras, mobiles,any electronic device.their passports....
is there any special reason,to steal their money??
unbeliavable...they keep their money,their euros...
after keep their cameras, mobiles,any electronic device.their passports....
is there any special reason,to steal their money??
unbeliavable...they keep their money,their euros...
:shock:
$ was being used to fund terrorist activities.
Actually, since it was Greeks, they probably took the $ to help pay down the debt.
the american-turkish guy..
a guy here post it and was ironic to the one die like dont fuck with israel,and kat lock the thread
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range
Exclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
* Robert Booth
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 June 2010
Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".
He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.
The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.
"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.
Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."
Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.
Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.
The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.
Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."
He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."
An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …
"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."
Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.
"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
here is the text from that article. some of this was cold blooded murder. shot in the face from less than 45 cm and some of them were shot in the back and in the back of the head. and i got shit for calling them cowards, only cowards shoot people in the back... how can someone get shot in the back if they are attacking the shooter? it is impossible and against every law of physics...how can the international community allow israel to get away with this??
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close rangeExclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
Robert Booth guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 June 2010 22.00 BST
Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. Two other men were shot four timA 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back.es, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".
He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.
The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.
"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.
Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."
Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.
Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.
The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.
Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."
He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."
An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …
"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."
Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.
"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
That doesn't sound like self defense to me
I have tried hard to not come off as a smartass in these threads, but this begs the question ... Are you only allowed to shoot someone so many times in self-defense, at which point it becomes ... What, exactly?
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
That doesn't sound like self defense to me
I have tried hard to not come off as a smartass in these threads, but this begs the question ... Are you only allowed to shoot someone so many times in self-defense, at which point it becomes ... What, exactly?
How many bullets do you think it would take to stop a 60 year old? Or anyone for that matter?
Chest and back? so he was shot from the front and from behind?
How many bullets do you think it would take to stop a 60 year old? Or anyone for that matter?
Chest and back? so he was shot from the front and from behind?
I guess my issue is that no reports thus far, including those from activists who were there, suggest that people were trussed up and killed execution style. Bullets flying in a melee could hit anyone, anywhere. People seem to forget that these commandos, as wrong as their mission ultimately was, are still people. According to most reports, they were not expecting to be attacked with lethal weaponry and sure, they overreacted and probably blasted away at the people who came at them. They didn't pull a Daredevil and disarm everyone superhero style because that is not super realistic. I don't know. I should probably keep the discussion at the level of why the raid itself took place ... Because Israel's government has become seemingly unable to make rational decisions that would promote peace. Its just hard to lose sight of the human element for me. I have worked with soldiers, and trust me, its hard to be rational under fire, so to speak.
Yes I did, and obviously the combat took place at close range. Still not clear on how this detail is particularly incriminating, as compared to scenarios where snipers were operating or the battle was taking place at longer ranges. Maybe its not fair to ask, but someone comes at you with a knife, and you've got a pistol. You're not expecting outright combat. Do you put your gun down and calmly decide to engage in hand to hand combat? Let's also say that your buddy next to you has already been cut open or shot, and let's further say that your other buddy got overwhelmed and pitched over the deck. Would you still be in the mood to use non-lethal force? If so, you've never been in an actual combat situation. Its easy for us to judge people. If it comes to light that people were killed execution-style, I will freely admit that the troops are at fault and are guilty of war crimes. Until then, I hold the Israeli high command responsible for these deaths.
Yes I did, and obviously the combat took place at close range. Still not clear on how this detail is particularly incriminating, as compared to scenarios where snipers were operating or the battle was taking place at longer ranges. Maybe its not fair to ask, but someone comes at you with a knife, and you've got a pistol. You're not expecting outright combat. Do you put your gun down and calmly decide to engage in hand to hand combat? Let's also say that your buddy next to you has already been cut open or shot, and let's further say that your other buddy got overwhelmed and pitched over the deck. Would you still be in the mood to use non-lethal force? If so, you've never been in an actual combat situation. Its easy for us to judge people. If it comes to light that people were killed execution-style, I will freely admit that the troops are at fault and are guilty of war crimes. Until then, I hold the Israeli high command responsible for these deaths.
being shot 4 times in the head,and also shot in the back, from a distance of less than 45 cm, that is a foot and a half, is no accident. its coldblooded fucking murder. it is EXECUTION....there is no other reasonable expectation than DEATH when you shoot that close.... you can not miss a man's head with a 9 mm from less than 45 cm even if you tried to miss it...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
.....and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet.....
....Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence.....
I have tried hard to not come off as a smartass in these threads, but this begs the question ... Are you only allowed to shoot someone so many times in self-defense, at which point it becomes ... What, exactly?
It's true it's not just a question of number of bullets. It's a question of being shot at point blank in the BACK of the head or the BACK. Surely this would suggest the activists were going 'the other way'. If one accepts close range shooting for self defence ( :roll: ), the activists would have been shot facing their opponent - don't you think?
Reborn - no one has mentioned executions until you did. Just shooting people in the back debunks the Israeli version that IDF were the victims and just shows pure evil (and cowardice).
yes because shooting in the back implies that the victim was running away from the person with the gun, or the victim was engaged with an enemy and an ally of that enemy snuck up behind them and shot them in the back or blew their face off via entrance wound from the back of the head. either way it is cowardace of the highest order, sponsored by the israeli military and government....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"this is the first time i ever said this in public, but the jews are fucking cowards" = gimme
You were not being specific to the men on the boats. You "got shit" for calling all Jews cowards. Here's a lesson for you: Judaism is a religion and heritage, Israel is a state. Jew =/= Israeli =/= IDF
Substitute "the blacks" or "the Hispanics" or "the Muslims" in that sentence, substitute aerial or prfctlefts for gimme, put it in the "Mosque at Ground Zero" or any of the Arizona threads and tell me people wouldn't have called that BS post for what it was. Do not try to spin that post.
Israeli soilders boardered the ships armed with paintball rifles instead of live ammunition in order to prevent injuries of the activists.
what did you mean by INSTEAD OF live ammunition, then??
I thought that it was clear but I see I did not explain my self well enough (I actually wrote that without intentions of sarcasm in case you were wondering)
I meant that their main weapon, meaning the weapon that they were originally using when boarding, was the paint ball gun - not live ammunition (again, you can clearly see this in the vids).
Sorry if I was not clear about that earlier.
Post edited by rafie on
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Oh your name has an E in it. E as in Execution, E as in Evil, E as in Evolution???? Got it, my bad rafi-E
What exactly is the point of this? Again you fall back to the personal insults? I will not lower myself to your level and instead I will just start to ignore you for the troll you are.[/quote]
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
yes because shooting in the back implies that the victim was running away from the person with the gun, or the victim was engaged with an enemy and an ally of that enemy snuck up behind them and shot them in the back or blew their face off via entrance wound from the back of the head. either way it is cowardace of the highest order, sponsored by the israeli military and government....
Why is this an act of cowardice in your opinion? If you saw a friend being attacked by several people and you wanted to help him, what would you do? Kindly walk up and tap one of them on the shoulder asking him politely to stop? If I was your friend I would hope you would do everything you can to get them off me.
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
yes because shooting in the back implies that the victim was running away from the person with the gun, or the victim was engaged with an enemy and an ally of that enemy snuck up behind them and shot them in the back or blew their face off via entrance wound from the back of the head. either way it is cowardace of the highest order, sponsored by the israeli military and government....
Why is this an act of cowardice in your opinion? If you saw a friend being attacked by several people and you wanted to help him, what would you do? Kindly walk up and tap one of them on the shoulder asking him politely to stop? If I was your friend I would hope you would do everything you can to get them off me.
Point blank shooting in the back of the head or the back.... enough said.
Don't try to find excuses. If these supposedly highly trained elite forces wished to disable a 'foe' by sneaking up on him whilst he is otherwised engaged, it is easily done for them without having to kill. Assuming that this is a scenario, which I'm not so sure about.
Murders. That's what these were. Not defense, murder.
Israel is not credible. An international enquiry is essential. Israel cannot be trusted with their own internal one.
yes because shooting in the back implies that the victim was running away from the person with the gun, or the victim was engaged with an enemy and an ally of that enemy snuck up behind them and shot them in the back or blew their face off via entrance wound from the back of the head. either way it is cowardace of the highest order, sponsored by the israeli military and government....
Why is this an act of cowardice in your opinion? If you saw a friend being attacked by several people and you wanted to help him, what would you do? Kindly walk up and tap one of them on the shoulder asking him politely to stop? If I was your friend I would hope you would do everything you can to get them off me.
Point blank shooting in the back of the head or the back.... enough said.
Don't try to find excuses. If these supposedly highly trained elite forces wished to disable a 'foe' by sneaking up on him whilst he is otherwised engaged, it is easily done for them without having to kill. Assuming that this is a scenario, which I'm not so sure about.
Murders. That's what these were. Not defense, murder.
Israel is not credible. An international enquiry is essential. Israel cannot be trusted with their own internal one.
Agree 100%
I'm still shocked that some people are trying to find excuses and a logical reasoning to these killings.
How can one man be shot in the leg, chest, back in 'self defense'. If he was attacking someone, a shot in the leg would take him to the floor, a shot in the chest or back would probably do the same. I don't see how he could sustain multiple shots like that without over zealous, heavy handed, unnecessary voilence.
Comments
Fact is, on the other five ships of the convoy they were not attacked and therefore had no reason to use the sidearms. They only used them on the ship were they were BRUTALLY ATTACKED....
Not to get off subject but, what do you call what "your" COUNTRY'S leaders did to gaza a couple years ago? Please give me a word that describes what they did. If the that's what you call "brutally attacked" then what would you call gaza??? Please entertain me/us with a word best describing that. Take your time, no hurry....but make it good. :roll:
Rafi, buddy, dnt forget the MARBLES to. Look bro, right is right and wrong is wrong. This shit is flat out WRONG and deep down INSIDE U know I'm right. Unless your body is soul-less without a heart.....
Don't get the wrong idea about America Rafie. Most of America supports Israel except for the hardcore left wing liberals that come to the train. The Train holds the leftist of the left.
Rafi, buddy, dnt forget the MARBLES to. Look bro, right is right and wrong is wrong. This shit is flat out WRONG and deep down INSIDE U know I'm right. Unless your body is soul-less without a heart.....[/quote]
Don't get the wrong idea about America Rafie. Most of America supports Israel except for the hardcore left wing liberals that come to the train. The Train holds the leftist of the left.[/quote]
You have NO clue about me. I'm NO liberal nor am I a CON-servative. I'm a human being who happens to like riding the MT line. Sorry to disappoint u my CON-servative friend, but I think BOTH parties are one in the same. Different name with same agendas. And most of America do NOT support Israel, just our lousy leaders who have no balls nor souls. So the whole world condems Israel except australia and the us, hmmm, the whole worlds wrong again. Thank god Americas here to right the ship.... :roll:
Off topic.
I also addressed that issue in one of the threads started earlier this year on the subject. I see no reason to start it here too.
And my name is spelled with an E at the end.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=133579&p=3017801
what did you mean by INSTEAD OF live ammunition, then??
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
they come back with C-130 of Greek Airforce
just one question..
after keep their cameras, mobiles,any electronic device.their passports....
is there any special reason,to steal their money??
unbeliavable...they keep their money,their euros...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
:shock:
$ was being used to fund terrorist activities.
Actually, since it was Greeks, they probably took the $ to help pay down the debt.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sy-results
a guy here post it and was ironic to the one die like dont fuck with israel,and kat lock the thread
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Thos pesky paint ball guns! :roll:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sy-results
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range
Exclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
* Robert Booth
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 June 2010
Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".
He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.
The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.
"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.
Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."
Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.
Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.
The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.
Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."
He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."
An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …
"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."
Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.
"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.
That doesn't sound like self defense to me
here is the text from that article. some of this was cold blooded murder. shot in the face from less than 45 cm and some of them were shot in the back and in the back of the head. and i got shit for calling them cowards, only cowards shoot people in the back... how can someone get shot in the back if they are attacking the shooter? it is impossible and against every law of physics...how can the international community allow israel to get away with this??
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close rangeExclusive: Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
Robert Booth guardian.co.uk, Friday 4 June 2010 22.00 BST
Israel was tonight under pressure to allow an independent inquiry into its assault on the Gaza aid flotilla after autopsy results on the bodies of those killed, obtained by the Guardian, revealed they were peppered with 9mm bullets, many fired at close range.
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. Two other men were shot four timA 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back.es, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine.
The findings emerged as more survivors gave their accounts of the raids. Ismail Patel, the chairman of Leicester-based pro-Palestinian group Friends of al-Aqsa, who returned to Britain today, told how he witnessed some of the fatal shootings and claimed that Israel had operated a "shoot to kill policy".
He calculated that during the bloodiest part of the assault, Israeli commandos shot one person every minute. One man was fatally shot in the back of the head just two feet in front him and another was shot once between the eyes. He added that as well as the fatally wounded, 48 others were suffering from gunshot wounds and six activists remained missing, suggesting the death toll may increase.
The new information about the manner and intensity of the killings undermines Israel's insistence that its soldiers opened fire only in self defence and in response to attacks by the activists.
"Given the very disturbing evidence which contradicts the line from the Israeli media and suggests that Israelis have been very selective in the way they have addressed this, there is now an overwhelming need for an international inquiry," said Andrew Slaughter MP, a member of the all party group on Britain and Palestine.
Israel said tonight the number of bullets found in the bodies did not alter the fact that the soldiers were acting in self defence. "The only situation when a soldier shot was when it was a clearly a life-threatening situation," said a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in London. "Pulling the trigger quickly can result in a few bullets being in the same body, but does not change the fact they were in a life-threatening situation."
Protesters from across the country will tomorrow march from Downing Street to the Israeli embassy to call for Israel to be held to account for its actions.
Earlier this week, William Hague, the foreign secretary, said the government would call for an inquiry under international auspices if Israel refuses to establish an independent inquiry, including an international presence.
The autopsy results were released as the last of the Turkish victims was buried.
Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. "All [the bullets] were intact. This is important in a forensic context. When a bullet strikes another place it comes into the body deformed. If it directly comes into the body, the bullet is all intact."
He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in firearms. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain."
An unnamed Israeli commando, who purportedly led the raid on the Mavi Marmara, today told Israeli news website Ynet News that he shot at a protester who approached him with a knife. "I was in front of a number of people with knives and clubs," he said. "I cocked my weapon when I saw that one was coming towards me with a knife drawn and I fired once. Then another 20 people came at me from all directions and threw me down to the deck below …
"We knew they were peace activists. Though they wanted to break the Gaza blockade, we thought we'd encounter passive resistance, perhaps verbal resistance – we didn't expect this. Everyone wanted to kill us. We encountered terrorists who wanted to kill us and we did everything we could to prevent unnecessary injury."
Tonight the Rachel Corrie, an Irish vessel crewed by supporters of the Free Gaza movement, remained on course for Gaza. Yossi Gal, director general at the Israeli foreign ministry, said Israel had "no desire for a confrontation" but asked for the ship to dock at Ashdod, not Gaza.
"If the ship decides to sail the port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it," he said.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I have tried hard to not come off as a smartass in these threads, but this begs the question ... Are you only allowed to shoot someone so many times in self-defense, at which point it becomes ... What, exactly?
How many bullets do you think it would take to stop a 60 year old? Or anyone for that matter?
Chest and back? so he was shot from the front and from behind?
I guess my issue is that no reports thus far, including those from activists who were there, suggest that people were trussed up and killed execution style. Bullets flying in a melee could hit anyone, anywhere. People seem to forget that these commandos, as wrong as their mission ultimately was, are still people. According to most reports, they were not expecting to be attacked with lethal weaponry and sure, they overreacted and probably blasted away at the people who came at them. They didn't pull a Daredevil and disarm everyone superhero style because that is not super realistic. I don't know. I should probably keep the discussion at the level of why the raid itself took place ... Because Israel's government has become seemingly unable to make rational decisions that would promote peace. Its just hard to lose sight of the human element for me. I have worked with soldiers, and trust me, its hard to be rational under fire, so to speak.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sy-results
Yes I did, and obviously the combat took place at close range. Still not clear on how this detail is particularly incriminating, as compared to scenarios where snipers were operating or the battle was taking place at longer ranges. Maybe its not fair to ask, but someone comes at you with a knife, and you've got a pistol. You're not expecting outright combat. Do you put your gun down and calmly decide to engage in hand to hand combat? Let's also say that your buddy next to you has already been cut open or shot, and let's further say that your other buddy got overwhelmed and pitched over the deck. Would you still be in the mood to use non-lethal force? If so, you've never been in an actual combat situation. Its easy for us to judge people. If it comes to light that people were killed execution-style, I will freely admit that the troops are at fault and are guilty of war crimes. Until then, I hold the Israeli high command responsible for these deaths.
Oh your name has an E in it. E as in Execution, E as in Evil, E as in Evolution???? Got it, my bad rafi-E
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
It's true it's not just a question of number of bullets. It's a question of being shot at point blank in the BACK of the head or the BACK. Surely this would suggest the activists were going 'the other way'. If one accepts close range shooting for self defence ( :roll: ), the activists would have been shot facing their opponent - don't you think?
Reborn - no one has mentioned executions until you did. Just shooting people in the back debunks the Israeli version that IDF were the victims and just shows pure evil (and cowardice).
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Oh, no he didn't :shock:
"this is the first time i ever said this in public, but the jews are fucking cowards" = gimme
You were not being specific to the men on the boats. You "got shit" for calling all Jews cowards. Here's a lesson for you: Judaism is a religion and heritage, Israel is a state. Jew =/= Israeli =/= IDF
Substitute "the blacks" or "the Hispanics" or "the Muslims" in that sentence, substitute aerial or prfctlefts for gimme, put it in the "Mosque at Ground Zero" or any of the Arizona threads and tell me people wouldn't have called that BS post for what it was. Do not try to spin that post.
I thought that it was clear but I see I did not explain my self well enough (I actually wrote that without intentions of sarcasm in case you were wondering)
I meant that their main weapon, meaning the weapon that they were originally using when boarding, was the paint ball gun - not live ammunition (again, you can clearly see this in the vids).
Sorry if I was not clear about that earlier.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
What exactly is the point of this? Again you fall back to the personal insults? I will not lower myself to your level and instead I will just start to ignore you for the troll you are.[/quote]
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Why is this an act of cowardice in your opinion? If you saw a friend being attacked by several people and you wanted to help him, what would you do? Kindly walk up and tap one of them on the shoulder asking him politely to stop? If I was your friend I would hope you would do everything you can to get them off me.
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Point blank shooting in the back of the head or the back.... enough said.
Don't try to find excuses. If these supposedly highly trained elite forces wished to disable a 'foe' by sneaking up on him whilst he is otherwised engaged, it is easily done for them without having to kill. Assuming that this is a scenario, which I'm not so sure about.
Murders. That's what these were. Not defense, murder.
Israel is not credible. An international enquiry is essential. Israel cannot be trusted with their own internal one.
Agree 100%
I'm still shocked that some people are trying to find excuses and a logical reasoning to these killings.
How can one man be shot in the leg, chest, back in 'self defense'. If he was attacking someone, a shot in the leg would take him to the floor, a shot in the chest or back would probably do the same. I don't see how he could sustain multiple shots like that without over zealous, heavy handed, unnecessary voilence.