The 12 days of Christmas begin today, but who needs a partridge in a pear tree when we've got a Posey behind the plate?
To remember the most glorious weeks of Bay Area sports in 2010, we present 12 playoff numbers that gift-wrapped a World Series for San Francisco.
1 Aubrey Huff bunt: Huff's sacrifice bunt in the seventh inning of Game 5 of the World Series was the first of his 11-season career. It helped set the table for Edgar Renteria's three-run homer in the Giants' 3-1 title-clinching victory.
2 Cody Ross homers: Against the Phillies' "unhittable" Roy Halladay, Ross went deep twice in Game 1 of the NLCS. Ross, the unofficial MVP of the NLDS, would be the official MVP of the NLCS.
3 Freddy Sanchez doubles: In Game 1 of the World Series, Sanchez became the first player to hit three doubles in his first three World Series at-bats. Sanchez, like Huff and Ross, was a veteran ballplayer (nine seasons) in his first postseason.
4 One-run games: The Giants, who were 28-24 in one-run games during their torturous regular season, went 3-1 in one-run games in a torturous NLDS against the Braves.
5 Game 6 relievers: Jonathan Sanchez lost his cool and was pulled in the third inning of the final game of the NLCS. In came Jeremy Affeldt, Madison Bumgarner, Javier Lopez, Tim Lincecum and, for the five-out save, Brian Wilson. The quintet allowed zero runs in the 3-2 victory.
6 Brian Wilson saves: There was a lot more for foes to fear in the postseason than the beard. Wilson had a 0.00 ERA in 11 2/3 innings with 16 strikeouts and four walks. He saved each clinching game.
7 Two-out runs: With two outs in the eighth inning of Game 2 of the World Series, Buster Posey singled to start a seven-run rally that turned a 2-0 game into a blowout. The rally featured four straight walks on 19 pitches.
8 Shutout innings: At age 21, Madison Bumgarner won Game 4 of the World Series with eight innings of shutout ball, allowing one runner to reach second base.
9 Swings and misses: The Braves were never more baffled than in the second inning of NLDS Game 1, when Tim Lincecum struck out the side, all swinging all the time. He finished with 14 Ks in a two-hit shutout.
10 Seasons in waiting: Giants fans, owners and employees went through 10 bittersweet seasons before the team finally christened its beautiful ballpark by the bay with a world championship run in Season No. 11.
11 Different lineups:
Nobody knew what Bruce Bochy would do next. In 15 playoff games, he posted 11 different starting lineups (pitchers aside). Every move seemed to work out just right.
12 Runs allowed: Giants pitchers held an explosive Rangers lineup to 12 runs in the World Series - a fitting symbol for a championship built on one of the best pitching staffs in team history. Texas had scored 38 runs against the Yankees in a six-game ALCS.
If you prefer to sing, the last verse would go like this: On the twelfth day of Christmas the baseball gods brought to us, 12 runs allowed, 11 different lineups, 10 seasons in waiting, 9 swings and misses, 8 shutout innings, 7 two-out runs, 6 Brian Wilson saves, 5 Game 6 relievers, 4 one-run games, 3 Freddy Sanchez doubles, 2 Cody Ross homers and an Aubrey Huff bunt in Game 5 of the World Series.
olney follows up on his story from a few days ago:
Poll: Phillies rotation unanimously best
All but a handful of the primary free agents have signed, a lot of the baseball offices are shut down for the holidays and the major work of the offseason, by and large, is complete. Which is why this has been a good week to consider the overall landscape of the sport and ask this question:
Who has the majors' best rotation?
I submitted my ranking earlier this week. Here, 16 talent evaluators -- general managers, assistant GMs, scouts and a particularly thoughtful player -- responded with their top five rotations. And while it shouldn't be a surprise that the Philadelphia Phillies won the voting, given their rotation of Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt and Cole Hamels, it is a surprise that 16 folks agreed completely.
The Phillies got all 16 first-place votes, and the San Francisco Giants -- with Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Jonathan Sanchez, Barry Zito and Madison Bumgarner -- were an overwhelming pick as the second-best rotation. The results (a first-place vote was worth five points, a second-place vote was worth four points, etc.):
1. Philadelphia Phillies -- 80 points (16 first place votes)
2. San Francisco Giants -- 61 points (14 second-place votes, one third-place vote, one fourth-place vote)
3. Tampa Bay Rays -- 24 points (including five third-place votes)
3. Boston Red Sox -- 24 points (including two second-place votes).
5. Oakland Athletics -- 14 points
6. St. Louis Cardinals -- 12 points
7. Milwaukee Brewers -- 10 points
8. Chicago White Sox -- 6 points
9. Atlanta Braves -- 5 points
10. Detroit Tigers -- 2 points
can't wait for spring training. merry christmas everyone.
"Here, 16 talent evaluators -- general managers, assistant GMs, scouts and a particularly thoughtful player -- responded with their top five rotations." - you know, people who get paid for a living to be involved in baseball. Only those people.
"Here, 16 talent evaluators -- general managers, assistant GMs, scouts and a particularly thoughtful player -- responded with their top five rotations." - you know, people who get paid for a living to be involved in baseball. Only those people.
San Fran's a cute city, it really is.
Oh, so it's really only 15 people, I see! I'll bet the thoughtful player was Chase Utley.
Just remember World Series Championship gear makes a wonderful Christmas gift
"Here, 16 talent evaluators -- general managers, assistant GMs, scouts and a particularly thoughtful player -- responded with their top five rotations." - you know, people who get paid for a living to be involved in baseball. Only those people.
San Fran's a cute city, it really is.
Oh, so it's really only 15 people, I see! I'll bet the thoughtful player was Chase Utley.
Just remember World Series Championship gear makes a wonderful Christmas gift
Your logic is astounding. And the witty retorts are even better. Seriously, more originality, please, I know it can be hard at times.
And I'm good on the WS gear. Got mine a couple years ago. Hopefully you can make it back to the playoffs next season. That first year is fun though.
These Philly fans do love measuring each others dicks. YES YOU HAVE THE BEST ROTATION IN BASEBALL!!!
never knew buster olney was a phils fan.
Yeah, true but I just don't know how much more talk about the Phillies rotation I can take.
Camped myself out at Petes Sake yesterday and was borderline blacked out when I posted that.
Hahahaha. I know it's eating at you. That's half the fun. And then add alcohol on top of that while being a New Yorker situated in Philly'? Now you're talkin' a good time.
BTW, I think that's what I love most about this board - if I can't find an argument to start with the people I'm out with, I know for a fact that I can get it here. God bless this board and its crazy characters.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Braves signed Uggla to 5-year extension. Guess they're not using defensive metrics.
They're probably thinking, at least he's better than Brooks Conrad.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
I didn't read the link, but what's "outrageous"? I'm 99% sure bagwell was a juicer but he, and others, probably will make the HOF while other "poster boys" (i.e. bonds) will be held out by sanctimonious hypocritical voters.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
This HOF stuff can get real annoying. Last week alone on espn.com there were 3 pro-HOF article cases made for bagwell, larry walker, and blyleven. According to them everyone should be in the HOF
I didn't read the link, but what's "outrageous"? I'm 99% sure bagwell was a juicer but he, and others, probably will make the HOF while other "poster boys" (i.e. bonds) will be held out by sanctimonious hypocritical voters.
yeah, bonds, mcgwire, and clemens should all be first ballot guys
I didn't read the link, but what's "outrageous"? I'm 99% sure bagwell was a juicer but he, and others, probably will make the HOF while other "poster boys" (i.e. bonds) will be held out by sanctimonious hypocritical voters.
It's outrageous because the guy was never tied to steroids in any way. He is as guilty as Jeter except he hit homeruns. Why are you so positive?
Edit: And Verducci is condeming Bagwell because he was "tied to speculation". So writers said "i wonder if this guy took steroids" and that ties him to speculation....come on.
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
This HOF stuff can get real annoying. Last week alone on espn.com there were 3 pro-HOF article cases made for bagwell, larry walker, and blyleven. According to them everyone should be in the HOF
Yeah, there has been a lot in the last week. Hardball Talk posted this ESPN ballot yesterday:
Jack Morris, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Tino Martinez, and BJ Surhoff.
And get this, ESPN, basically the TMZ of sports has 18, yes 18 Hall of Fame voters.
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
This HOF stuff can get real annoying. Last week alone on espn.com there were 3 pro-HOF article cases made for bagwell, larry walker, and blyleven. According to them everyone should be in the HOF
Yeah, there has been a lot in the last week. Hardball Talk posted this ESPN ballot yesterday:
Jack Morris, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Tino Martinez, and BJ Surhoff.
And get this, ESPN, basically the TMZ of sports has 18, yes 18 Hall of Fame voters.
jayson stark's rationale for his votes is always one of the worst articles of the year
yeah, I think they are both deserving. Raines and Larkin are the two others that stand out for me. And I think those that don't vote for mcgwire are wrong...he should be a no brainer
yeah, I think they are both deserving. Raines and Larkin are the two others that stand out for me. And I think those that don't vote for mcgwire are wrong...he should be a no brainer
Agreed, Larkin was close (he'll get in) and I can go either way with Raines. The only thing that gets me about McGwire is his career BA of .263. Just seems really low to me. His OBP and Slugging are outstanding though so I guess that makes up for it.
It's outrageous because the guy was never tied to steroids in any way. He is as guilty as Jeter except he hit homeruns. Why are you so positive?
well, he didn't get in :roll:
I'm not "positive" JB was on the juice. But I'm pretty damn close. He played on a team which, in my mind, had nearly the "steroid culture" as their neighbors in arlington. teammates included caminiti, incaviglia, luis gonzales, clemens and others. of those, only gonzales is a "maybe," to me. JB went from skinny to huge and back to skinny right after they began testing. kinda like pudge. I could link to to all kinds of "bagwell was a user" conspiracy theory blogs, but I won't - those blogs present compelling evidence but don't prove anything.
my beef has always been that the guys we were told (by the media) were doing it the "right way" (arod, palmerio, etc.) turned out to be juicers. I just say, FORGET STEROIDS and let the numbers speak for themselves. guys will NEVER admit to being users, so quit guessing (as Verducci did) and let the numbers decide. all I know is, my guy bonds was the BEST steroid user ever and should be in the HOF.... because there is not doubt in my mind other users will slip in. if they haven't already. Ricky???
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
To remember the most glorious weeks of Bay Area sports in 2010, we present 12 playoff numbers that gift-wrapped a World Series for San Francisco.
1 Aubrey Huff bunt: Huff's sacrifice bunt in the seventh inning of Game 5 of the World Series was the first of his 11-season career. It helped set the table for Edgar Renteria's three-run homer in the Giants' 3-1 title-clinching victory.
2 Cody Ross homers: Against the Phillies' "unhittable" Roy Halladay, Ross went deep twice in Game 1 of the NLCS. Ross, the unofficial MVP of the NLDS, would be the official MVP of the NLCS.
3 Freddy Sanchez doubles: In Game 1 of the World Series, Sanchez became the first player to hit three doubles in his first three World Series at-bats. Sanchez, like Huff and Ross, was a veteran ballplayer (nine seasons) in his first postseason.
4 One-run games: The Giants, who were 28-24 in one-run games during their torturous regular season, went 3-1 in one-run games in a torturous NLDS against the Braves.
5 Game 6 relievers: Jonathan Sanchez lost his cool and was pulled in the third inning of the final game of the NLCS. In came Jeremy Affeldt, Madison Bumgarner, Javier Lopez, Tim Lincecum and, for the five-out save, Brian Wilson. The quintet allowed zero runs in the 3-2 victory.
6 Brian Wilson saves: There was a lot more for foes to fear in the postseason than the beard. Wilson had a 0.00 ERA in 11 2/3 innings with 16 strikeouts and four walks. He saved each clinching game.
7 Two-out runs: With two outs in the eighth inning of Game 2 of the World Series, Buster Posey singled to start a seven-run rally that turned a 2-0 game into a blowout. The rally featured four straight walks on 19 pitches.
8 Shutout innings: At age 21, Madison Bumgarner won Game 4 of the World Series with eight innings of shutout ball, allowing one runner to reach second base.
9 Swings and misses: The Braves were never more baffled than in the second inning of NLDS Game 1, when Tim Lincecum struck out the side, all swinging all the time. He finished with 14 Ks in a two-hit shutout.
10 Seasons in waiting: Giants fans, owners and employees went through 10 bittersweet seasons before the team finally christened its beautiful ballpark by the bay with a world championship run in Season No. 11.
11 Different lineups:
Nobody knew what Bruce Bochy would do next. In 15 playoff games, he posted 11 different starting lineups (pitchers aside). Every move seemed to work out just right.
12 Runs allowed: Giants pitchers held an explosive Rangers lineup to 12 runs in the World Series - a fitting symbol for a championship built on one of the best pitching staffs in team history. Texas had scored 38 runs against the Yankees in a six-game ALCS.
If you prefer to sing, the last verse would go like this: On the twelfth day of Christmas the baseball gods brought to us, 12 runs allowed, 11 different lineups, 10 seasons in waiting, 9 swings and misses, 8 shutout innings, 7 two-out runs, 6 Brian Wilson saves, 5 Game 6 relievers, 4 one-run games, 3 Freddy Sanchez doubles, 2 Cody Ross homers and an Aubrey Huff bunt in Game 5 of the World Series.
Poll: Phillies rotation unanimously best
All but a handful of the primary free agents have signed, a lot of the baseball offices are shut down for the holidays and the major work of the offseason, by and large, is complete. Which is why this has been a good week to consider the overall landscape of the sport and ask this question:
Who has the majors' best rotation?
I submitted my ranking earlier this week. Here, 16 talent evaluators -- general managers, assistant GMs, scouts and a particularly thoughtful player -- responded with their top five rotations. And while it shouldn't be a surprise that the Philadelphia Phillies won the voting, given their rotation of Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt and Cole Hamels, it is a surprise that 16 folks agreed completely.
The Phillies got all 16 first-place votes, and the San Francisco Giants -- with Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain, Jonathan Sanchez, Barry Zito and Madison Bumgarner -- were an overwhelming pick as the second-best rotation. The results (a first-place vote was worth five points, a second-place vote was worth four points, etc.):
1. Philadelphia Phillies -- 80 points (16 first place votes)
2. San Francisco Giants -- 61 points (14 second-place votes, one third-place vote, one fourth-place vote)
3. Tampa Bay Rays -- 24 points (including five third-place votes)
3. Boston Red Sox -- 24 points (including two second-place votes).
5. Oakland Athletics -- 14 points
6. St. Louis Cardinals -- 12 points
7. Milwaukee Brewers -- 10 points
8. Chicago White Sox -- 6 points
9. Atlanta Braves -- 5 points
10. Detroit Tigers -- 2 points
can't wait for spring training. merry christmas everyone.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Big loss, hoss.
Based on 16 votes!? Lmao! Where is the discussion that talks about pitching staff and not just starters? Yeah, I didn't think you would pull that out!
You Philly guys crack me up! You were probably just upset the Giants had a 12 days of Christmas song.
San Fran's a cute city, it really is.
Oh, so it's really only 15 people, I see! I'll bet the thoughtful player was Chase Utley.
Just remember World Series Championship gear makes a wonderful Christmas gift
Your logic is astounding. And the witty retorts are even better. Seriously, more originality, please, I know it can be hard at times.
And I'm good on the WS gear. Got mine a couple years ago. Hopefully you can make it back to the playoffs next season. That first year is fun though.
I'm a Rangers fan.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
i wanna see the circle jerk!!!!
never knew buster olney was a phils fan.
Yeah, true but I just don't know how much more talk about the Phillies rotation I can take.
Camped myself out at Petes Sake yesterday and was borderline blacked out when I posted that.
Hahahaha. I know it's eating at you. That's half the fun. And then add alcohol on top of that while being a New Yorker situated in Philly'? Now you're talkin' a good time.
BTW, I think that's what I love most about this board - if I can't find an argument to start with the people I'm out with, I know for a fact that I can get it here. God bless this board and its crazy characters.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=a ... on-suspect
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Edit: Or not.
They're probably thinking, at least he's better than Brooks Conrad.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... lot/1.html
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
I didn't read the link, but what's "outrageous"? I'm 99% sure bagwell was a juicer but he, and others, probably will make the HOF while other "poster boys" (i.e. bonds) will be held out by sanctimonious hypocritical voters.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
This HOF stuff can get real annoying. Last week alone on espn.com there were 3 pro-HOF article cases made for bagwell, larry walker, and blyleven. According to them everyone should be in the HOF
yeah, bonds, mcgwire, and clemens should all be first ballot guys
It's outrageous because the guy was never tied to steroids in any way. He is as guilty as Jeter except he hit homeruns. Why are you so positive?
Edit: And Verducci is condeming Bagwell because he was "tied to speculation". So writers said "i wonder if this guy took steroids" and that ties him to speculation....come on.
Yeah, there has been a lot in the last week. Hardball Talk posted this ESPN ballot yesterday:
Jack Morris, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Tino Martinez, and BJ Surhoff.
And get this, ESPN, basically the TMZ of sports has 18, yes 18 Hall of Fame voters.
jayson stark's rationale for his votes is always one of the worst articles of the year
Yeah, I actually heard me made some good points this year but I have not read it yet. Will have to check it out.
yeah, I think they are both deserving. Raines and Larkin are the two others that stand out for me. And I think those that don't vote for mcgwire are wrong...he should be a no brainer
Agreed, Larkin was close (he'll get in) and I can go either way with Raines. The only thing that gets me about McGwire is his career BA of .263. Just seems really low to me. His OBP and Slugging are outstanding though so I guess that makes up for it.
I'm not "positive" JB was on the juice. But I'm pretty damn close. He played on a team which, in my mind, had nearly the "steroid culture" as their neighbors in arlington. teammates included caminiti, incaviglia, luis gonzales, clemens and others. of those, only gonzales is a "maybe," to me. JB went from skinny to huge and back to skinny right after they began testing. kinda like pudge. I could link to to all kinds of "bagwell was a user" conspiracy theory blogs, but I won't - those blogs present compelling evidence but don't prove anything.
my beef has always been that the guys we were told (by the media) were doing it the "right way" (arod, palmerio, etc.) turned out to be juicers. I just say, FORGET STEROIDS and let the numbers speak for themselves. guys will NEVER admit to being users, so quit guessing (as Verducci did) and let the numbers decide. all I know is, my guy bonds was the BEST steroid user ever
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14