since the majority were juicing, roids shouldn't be a factor in getting into the hall...bonds was already a hof hitter before he roided...he should be in
It's outrageous because the guy was never tied to steroids in any way. He is as guilty as Jeter except he hit homeruns. Why are you so positive?
well, he didn't get in :roll:
I'm not "positive" JB was on the juice. But I'm pretty damn close. He played on a team which, in my mind, had nearly the "steroid culture" as their neighbors in arlington. teammates included caminiti, incaviglia, luis gonzales, clemens and others. of those, only gonzales is a "maybe," to me. JB went from skinny to huge and back to skinny right after they began testing. kinda like pudge. I could link to to all kinds of "bagwell was a user" conspiracy theory blogs, but I won't - those blogs present compelling evidence but don't prove anything.
my beef has always been that the guys we were told (by the media) were doing it the "right way" (arod, palmerio, etc.) turned out to be juicers. I just say, FORGET STEROIDS and let the numbers speak for themselves. guys will NEVER admit to being users, so quit guessing (as Verducci did) and let the numbers decide. all I know is, my guy bonds was the BEST steroid user ever and should be in the HOF.... because there is not doubt in my mind other users will slip in. if they haven't already. Ricky???
Dude, I agree with all of this completely. My point was, you can't keep a guy out of the hall that you assume took steroids because of a bunch of theories and no real evidence.
I have always said I could give a fuck about steroids and everyone should get in based on their stats. I am with you on all of this. My point just was, it's not fair and absurd to keep Bagwell out because of assumptions.
yeah, I think they are both deserving. Raines and Larkin are the two others that stand out for me. And I think those that don't vote for mcgwire are wrong...he should be a no brainer
Agreed, Larkin was close (he'll get in) and I can go either way with Raines. The only thing that gets me about McGwire is his career BA of .263. Just seems really low to me. His OBP and Slugging are outstanding though so I guess that makes up for it.
mcgwire's career BA definitely doesn't help his case. didn't he have a couple of years in oakland where he hit something like .210 for the season?
I hope palmeiro never gets in. not only is he a smug jerk off, but I don't think he is deserving. he is the classic 'compiler'. he was never one of the best players at his position during his career. I'd vote for bagwell before I voted for palmeiro
It's outrageous because the guy was never tied to steroids in any way. He is as guilty as Jeter except he hit homeruns. Why are you so positive?
well, he didn't get in :roll:
I'm not "positive" JB was on the juice. But I'm pretty damn close. He played on a team which, in my mind, had nearly the "steroid culture" as their neighbors in arlington. teammates included caminiti, incaviglia, luis gonzales, clemens and others. of those, only gonzales is a "maybe," to me. JB went from skinny to huge and back to skinny right after they began testing. kinda like pudge. I could link to to all kinds of "bagwell was a user" conspiracy theory blogs, but I won't - those blogs present compelling evidence but don't prove anything.
my beef has always been that the guys we were told (by the media) were doing it the "right way" (arod, palmerio, etc.) turned out to be juicers. I just say, FORGET STEROIDS and let the numbers speak for themselves. guys will NEVER admit to being users, so quit guessing (as Verducci did) and let the numbers decide. all I know is, my guy bonds was the BEST steroid user ever and should be in the HOF.... because there is not doubt in my mind other users will slip in. if they haven't already. Ricky???
Dude, I agree with all of this completely. My point was, you can't keep a guy out of the hall that you assume took steroids because of a bunch of theories and no real evidence.
I have always said I could give a fuck about steroids and everyone should get in based on their stats. I am with you on all of this. My point just was, it's not fair and absurd to keep Bagwell out because of assumptions.
true....I guess in a nutshell my feeling is it's no more fair to say (of anyone) "we know he took steroids" than it is to say "we know he didn't take steroids" (griffey). everyone labels sosa as a user (me, included) but I'm not really sure what we're seeing as "proof." :?
it's convoluted....I'm with you...let 'em in.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
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EV LA1 08
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St. Paul 14, Denver 14
true....I guess in a nutshell my feeling is it's no more fair to say (of anyone) "we know he took steroids" than it is to say "we know he didn't take steroids" (griffey). everyone labels sosa as a user (me, included) but I'm not really sure what we're seeing as "proof." :?
it's convoluted....I'm with you...let 'em in.
I'm pretty sure that sosa is one of the few guys that was actually caught with roids. And of course he got caught with a corked bat. he's the ultimate scumbag
true....I guess in a nutshell my feeling is it's no more fair to say (of anyone) "we know he took steroids" than it is to say "we know he didn't take steroids" (griffey). everyone labels sosa as a user (me, included) but I'm not really sure what we're seeing as "proof." :?
it's convoluted....I'm with you...let 'em in.
I'm pretty sure that sosa is one of the few guys that was actually caught with roids. And of course he got caught with a corked bat. he's the ultimate scumbag
Looks like the Rangers are getting Beltre. Damn, the Angels had a pretty rough offseason. I thought the Yanks had a bad go of it,
Happy with this move because it significantly upgrades the defense at 3rd. Michael Young will now serve as the DH and sort of an infield back up.
This means good-bye to Vlad Guerrero and while he had a monster season and helped tremendously, he fell off as the season went on. Young doesn't hit for those kind of numbers, but he is more consistent.
And yes, the Angels didn't do so hot this season, and for that, I am thrilled.
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
true....I guess in a nutshell my feeling is it's no more fair to say (of anyone) "we know he took steroids" than it is to say "we know he didn't take steroids" (griffey). everyone labels sosa as a user (me, included) but I'm not really sure what we're seeing as "proof." :?
it's convoluted....I'm with you...let 'em in.
I'm pretty sure that sosa is one of the few guys that was actually caught with roids. And of course he got caught with a corked bat. he's the ultimate scumbag
And he's white now.
and, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was ever caught red (or white) handed.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
Nah, I was in Cooperstown at Ommegang during induction weekend last year but didn't make it. I will definitely be there when Mo then Jeter get in though
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
Nah, I was in Cooperstown at Ommegang during induction weekend last year but didn't make it. I will definitely be there when Mo then Jeter get in though
Those will be the years my dad and I will not be attending. It's gonna be a zoo there when the 90s-00s Yankees guys get in. Jeter, Mo, Posada?, Alex, Andy?, Swishalicious?
Ommegang is cool.
What year is Pedro eligible? I'm gonna be in my element for that weekend. I may grow a jheri curl for the occasion.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
Nah, I was in Cooperstown at Ommegang during induction weekend last year but didn't make it. I will definitely be there when Mo then Jeter get in though
Those will be the years my dad and I will not be attending. It's gonna be a zoo there when the 90s-00s Yankees guys get in. Jeter, Mo, Posada?, Alex, Andy?, Swishalicious?
Ommegang is cool.
What year is Pedro eligible? I'm gonna be in my element for that weekend. I may grow a jheri curl for the occasion.
Do you go every year? Where do you stay?
Yeah, it's definitely going to be a zoo, upstate NY is big time Yankees country plus its only a few hour drive from the city. Jeter, Mo and Arod (not getting into the roid conversation) are/should be definites. I would love for Bernie to make it but I don't think he will. Andy Pettitte too. Those two belong in the Hall of Damn Good Edit: and metsy just reminded me of Moose, he is a HOF'er in my mind.
I love Ommegang, great time.
I would imagine Pedro has 4 years left, it's a 5 year waiting period, right?
We don't go to induction weekend every year, I'd say maybe one out of every three. We go every year though, often in September/October. It's become a new tradition for my dad and I. I think we've done it the last 7-8 years. We either stay at this place in Cooperstown or there's a cheap Best Western about 7 miles outside the town. I've probably met about 15-20 hall of famers and another 15-20 other random guys at that weekend.
Oh yeah, Bernie. Always respected the hell out of him. And you're right, the A-rod discussion is for another day, but I think deep down he should be in as well. We'll see.
Yeah, 4 more years for Pedro. If he doesn't get in, I'm giving up being a baseball fan. He only had the most dominant season in baseball history during the height of hitters juicing. I don't care (and the voters shouldnt care either) if he doesn't have close to 300 wins.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
We don't go to induction weekend every year, I'd say maybe one out of every three. We go every year though, often in September/October. It's become a new tradition for my dad and I. I think we've done it the last 7-8 years. We either stay at this place in Cooperstown or there's a cheap Best Western about 7 miles outside the town. I've probably met about 15-20 hall of famers and another 15-20 other random guys at that weekend.
Oh yeah, Bernie. Always respected the hell out of him. And you're right, the A-rod discussion is for another day, but I think deep down he should be in as well. We'll see.
Yeah, 4 more years for Pedro. If he doesn't get in, I'm giving up being a baseball fan. He only had the most dominant season in baseball history during the height of hitters juicing. I don't care (and the voters shouldnt care either) if he doesn't have close to 300 wins.
Thats cool dude. A great tradition. Very cool about meeting everyone too. Gothca on the accomodations, only reason I asked is because we were camping out at Ommegang that weekend and there wasn't a hotel closer than Oneonta.
Too bad the way everything ended with Bernie but at least things have been settled. Like I said, I don't think he will get in but I would love it.
You have nothing to worry about with Pedro, first ballot no doubt. From 1997-2003 dude had a 2.2 era.
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
Was out there last year for induction weekend and had a blast. First time I'd been to Cooperstown to see one of the classiest guys ever (Dawson) get inducted. Loved his speech and also really liked umpire Doug Harvey's speech.
Before I went last year I was of the notion that no PED user should get in. After being at induction weekend last year I have an even stronger feeling that they should never get in. Less than a half of a percent of anyone who puts on a MLB uniform makes the HOF. It's a very elite/ prestigious club and should remain that way. The standing ovation Hank Aaron ( the true HR champ ) got from everyone was absolutely outstanding last year, a moment I won't forget. While these juciers have legit numbers worthy of the hall the decision they made to use PED's is a hall of fame costly decision. They benefited greatly from this (money, women, adoration of all fans in the late 90's and early 2000's), they got their cake, but they shouldn't get to eat it too. Keep them out of the hall forever. Glad to see the storng message the voters sent in the votes. It appears quite clear to me that Mac and Palmiero will never get in. I hope this is a sign of things to come for Bonda, Sosa, Clemens, Pettit, A Rod. None of them deserve to be in.
I'm not saying the blind eye baseball had to the steroid era was right at all, it wasn't, but if baseball ever wants to try and clean up the mess they got themselves into, letting PED users in the hall is not going to send the right message to kids or up and coming MLB players at all. Keep the roiders out of cooperstown!!
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Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
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Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
Anybody planning on going to the induction in Cooperstown this year? We're undecided at this point.
Was out there last year for induction weekend and had a blast. First time I'd been to Cooperstown to see one of the classiest guys ever (Dawson) get inducted. Loved his speech and also really liked umpire Doug Harvey's speech.
Before I went last year I was of the notion that no PED user should get in. After being at induction weekend last year I have an even stronger feeling that they should never get in. Less than a half of a percent of anyone who puts on a MLB uniform makes the HOF. It's a very elite/ prestigious club and should remain that way. The standing ovation Hank Aaron ( the true HR champ ) got from everyone was absolutely outstanding last year, a moment I won't forget. While these juciers have legit numbers worthy of the hall the decision they made to use PED's is a hall of fame costly decision. They benefited greatly from this (money, women, adoration of all fans in the late 90's and early 2000's), they got their cake, but they shouldn't get to eat it too. Keep them out of the hall forever. Glad to see the storng message the voters sent in the votes. It appears quite clear to me that Mac and Palmiero will never get in. I hope this is a sign of things to come for Bonda, Sosa, Clemens, Pettit, A Rod. None of them deserve to be in.
I'm not saying the blind eye baseball had to the steroid era was right at all, it wasn't, but if baseball ever wants to try and clean up the mess they got themselves into, letting PED users in the hall is not going to send the right message to kids or up and coming MLB players at all. Keep the roiders out of cooperstown!!
If it's about the message and prestige to you, you are aware that the hall of fame is full of complete scumbags, right?
If it's about the message and prestige to you, you are aware that the hall of fame is full of complete scumbags, right?[/quote]
Oh I'm well aware of some of the aholes that are in their, like Joe Morgan!! I don't think what these guys did off the field that had no effect to what they did on the field should really matter. Those that took PED's did something that greatly affected what they did on the field and grealty inflated numbers they put up and records they broke by cheating. That is why they should never get in.
Alpine Valley 6/26/98, Alpine Valley 10/8/00, Champaign 4/23/03, Chicago 6/18/03, Alpine Valley 6/21/03, Grand Rapids 10/3/04
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
Oh I'm well aware of some of the aholes that are in their, like Joe Morgan!! I don't think what these guys did off the field that had no effect to what they did on the field should really matter. Those that took PED's did something that greatly affected what they did on the field and grealty inflated numbers they put up and records they broke by cheating. That is why they should never get in.
What about pitchers like gaylord perry?
And how do you determine who took steroids and who didn't? Bagwell was never connected to steroids, yet writers are assuming he was juicing and he got less than 42% of the votes.
Jeff Bagwell: He should eventually get in, but his first-year support will be interesting to watch. Bagwell's numbers look worthy of Cooperstown, but he has been tied to steroid speculation enough that he "defended" himself in an ESPN.com interview last month. His defense? "I have no problem" with a guy juicing up, he said. To take such a position today is wildly irresponsible. It also invites the very talk that Bagwell claimed to be "sick and tired of."
Bagwell was an admitted Andro user who hired a competitive bodybuilder to make him as big as he could be, who claimed, McGwire-like, that Andro "doesn't help you hit home runs," who went from a prospect with "no pop" to massively changing his body and outhomering all but six big leaguers in the 13 seasons before steroid penalties (Ken Griffey Jr. and five connected to steroids: Bonds, Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire and Juan Gonzalez), and who condones the use of steroids -- but said, "I never used."
In Verducci's defense, I think he was just explaining why Bagwell wasn't going to get in this year. I don't think he was actually expressing his own opinion. It was more a summary of what was going to happen. And he was right about everything.
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Honestly can't stand people who get up on their high horse about the subject of steroids. Schmidt and all those dudes took greenies. Who knows where their numbers would be without them. Point is the best players in the game will do whatever they have to to be better. Those dudes on juice gave this game the "boost"(pun intended) it exactly needed after the strike.
On a personal level though, I hope Roger Clemens never gets in. I can't stand that fucking douchebag. Bonds is the greatest offensive player I'll probably see in my life - and most likely wouldve been that no matter what. But F Clemens. Can't stand that piece of shit.
Honestly can't stand people who get up on their high horse about the subject of steroids. Schmidt and all those dudes took greenies. Who knows where their numbers would be without them. Point is the best players in the game will do whatever they have to to be better. Those dudes on juice gave this game the "boost"(pun intended) it exactly needed after the strike.
On a personal level though, I hope Roger Clemens never gets in. I can't stand that fucking douchebag. Bonds is the greatest offensive player I'll probably see in my life - and most likely wouldve been that no matter what. But F Clemens. Can't stand that piece of shit.
griffey would have been better overall than bonds if he didn't get hurt.
Honestly can't stand people who get up on their high horse about the subject of steroids. Schmidt and all those dudes took greenies. Who knows where their numbers would be without them. Point is the best players in the game will do whatever they have to to be better. Those dudes on juice gave this game the "boost"(pun intended) it exactly needed after the strike.
On a personal level though, I hope Roger Clemens never gets in. I can't stand that fucking douchebag. Bonds is the greatest offensive player I'll probably see in my life - and most likely wouldve been that no matter what. But F Clemens. Can't stand that piece of shit.
griffey would have been better overall than bonds if he didn't get hurt.
And you'll never know that. Loved Griffey - sweetest swing the history of ever. But Bonds, steroids or not, had the best plate discipline/strike recognition ever. Ever. Total jerk/dick/douche, but the greatest offensive player I'll ever see. Maybe, just maybe, Pujols will break that, but overall offensive player - Bonds.
Honestly can't stand people who get up on their high horse about the subject of steroids. Schmidt and all those dudes took greenies. Who knows where their numbers would be without them. Point is the best players in the game will do whatever they have to to be better. Those dudes on juice gave this game the "boost"(pun intended) it exactly needed after the strike.
On a personal level though, I hope Roger Clemens never gets in. I can't stand that fucking douchebag. Bonds is the greatest offensive player I'll probably see in my life - and most likely wouldve been that no matter what. But F Clemens. Can't stand that piece of shit.
griffey would have been better overall than bonds if he didn't get hurt.
And you'll never know that. Loved Griffey - sweetest swing the history of ever. But Bonds, steroids or not, had the best plate discipline/strike recognition ever. Ever. Total jerk/dick/douche, but the greatest offensive player I'll ever see. Maybe, just maybe, Pujols will break that, but overall offensive player - Bonds.
not talking about steriods or anything else.
of course you'll never know for sure. that's why its a great argument. guy was robbed of the prime of his career. played better defense at a more important position too. man i loved me some griffey in the 90's....
incidentally i always loved watching pre-steroids bonds play back in the day too....
Another article about Bagwell in the New York Times. Also mentions Kirby Pucket all of a sudden becoming a power hitter. After only hitting 4 hr in his first 2 seasons.
There is no way of knowing who did or who didnt juice in those years
When a guy like Jason Grimsley was juicing all bets are off
The whole era is suspect
And that's why under the rules of the time, if they didn't violate any written rules against it, then they should be allowed in.
Baseball writers are asses. It's their only claim to power. Just put up a sign in Cooperstown along the lines of the performance-enhanced era and end it already.
There is no way of knowing who did or who didnt juice in those years
When a guy like Jason Grimsley was juicing all bets are off
The whole era is suspect
And that's why under the rules of the time, if they didn't violate any written rules against it, then they should be allowed in.
Baseball writers are asses. It's their only claim to power. Just put up a sign in Cooperstown along the lines of the performance-enhanced era and end it already.
I agree
Every decade in baseball has had its "cheating" phase if you will
Not sure any other sport has been so dirty with its cheating
My drinking team has a hockey problem
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
Comments
Dude, I agree with all of this completely. My point was, you can't keep a guy out of the hall that you assume took steroids because of a bunch of theories and no real evidence.
I have always said I could give a fuck about steroids and everyone should get in based on their stats. I am with you on all of this. My point just was, it's not fair and absurd to keep Bagwell out because of assumptions.
mcgwire's career BA definitely doesn't help his case. didn't he have a couple of years in oakland where he hit something like .210 for the season?
I hope palmeiro never gets in. not only is he a smug jerk off, but I don't think he is deserving. he is the classic 'compiler'. he was never one of the best players at his position during his career. I'd vote for bagwell before I voted for palmeiro
it's convoluted....I'm with you...let 'em in.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I'm pretty sure that sosa is one of the few guys that was actually caught with roids. And of course he got caught with a corked bat. he's the ultimate scumbag
And he's white now.
Happy with this move because it significantly upgrades the defense at 3rd. Michael Young will now serve as the DH and sort of an infield back up.
This means good-bye to Vlad Guerrero and while he had a monster season and helped tremendously, he fell off as the season went on. Young doesn't hit for those kind of numbers, but he is more consistent.
And yes, the Angels didn't do so hot this season, and for that, I am thrilled.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
and, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was ever caught red (or white) handed.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
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EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Nah, I was in Cooperstown at Ommegang during induction weekend last year but didn't make it. I will definitely be there when Mo then Jeter get in though
Ommegang is cool.
What year is Pedro eligible? I'm gonna be in my element for that weekend. I may grow a jheri curl for the occasion.
Do you go every year? Where do you stay?
Yeah, it's definitely going to be a zoo, upstate NY is big time Yankees country plus its only a few hour drive from the city. Jeter, Mo and Arod (not getting into the roid conversation) are/should be definites. I would love for Bernie to make it but I don't think he will. Andy Pettitte too. Those two belong in the Hall of Damn Good Edit: and metsy just reminded me of Moose, he is a HOF'er in my mind.
I love Ommegang, great time.
I would imagine Pedro has 4 years left, it's a 5 year waiting period, right?
Oh yeah, Bernie. Always respected the hell out of him. And you're right, the A-rod discussion is for another day, but I think deep down he should be in as well. We'll see.
Yeah, 4 more years for Pedro. If he doesn't get in, I'm giving up being a baseball fan. He only had the most dominant season in baseball history during the height of hitters juicing. I don't care (and the voters shouldnt care either) if he doesn't have close to 300 wins.
Thats cool dude. A great tradition. Very cool about meeting everyone too. Gothca on the accomodations, only reason I asked is because we were camping out at Ommegang that weekend and there wasn't a hotel closer than Oneonta.
Too bad the way everything ended with Bernie but at least things have been settled. Like I said, I don't think he will get in but I would love it.
You have nothing to worry about with Pedro, first ballot no doubt. From 1997-2003 dude had a 2.2 era.
Was out there last year for induction weekend and had a blast. First time I'd been to Cooperstown to see one of the classiest guys ever (Dawson) get inducted. Loved his speech and also really liked umpire Doug Harvey's speech.
Before I went last year I was of the notion that no PED user should get in. After being at induction weekend last year I have an even stronger feeling that they should never get in. Less than a half of a percent of anyone who puts on a MLB uniform makes the HOF. It's a very elite/ prestigious club and should remain that way. The standing ovation Hank Aaron ( the true HR champ ) got from everyone was absolutely outstanding last year, a moment I won't forget. While these juciers have legit numbers worthy of the hall the decision they made to use PED's is a hall of fame costly decision. They benefited greatly from this (money, women, adoration of all fans in the late 90's and early 2000's), they got their cake, but they shouldn't get to eat it too. Keep them out of the hall forever. Glad to see the storng message the voters sent in the votes. It appears quite clear to me that Mac and Palmiero will never get in. I hope this is a sign of things to come for Bonda, Sosa, Clemens, Pettit, A Rod. None of them deserve to be in.
I'm not saying the blind eye baseball had to the steroid era was right at all, it wasn't, but if baseball ever wants to try and clean up the mess they got themselves into, letting PED users in the hall is not going to send the right message to kids or up and coming MLB players at all. Keep the roiders out of cooperstown!!
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
If it's about the message and prestige to you, you are aware that the hall of fame is full of complete scumbags, right?
hey ty cobb was a great guy!
oh, wait :think:
haha. Mickey Mantle was a real class act too.
If it's about the message and prestige to you, you are aware that the hall of fame is full of complete scumbags, right?[/quote]
Oh I'm well aware of some of the aholes that are in their, like Joe Morgan!! I don't think what these guys did off the field that had no effect to what they did on the field should really matter. Those that took PED's did something that greatly affected what they did on the field and grealty inflated numbers they put up and records they broke by cheating. That is why they should never get in.
Chicago 5/16/06, Chicago 5/17/06, Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Milwaukee 6/29/06, Milwaukee 6/30/06, Lollapalooza 8/5/07
Eddie Solo Milwaukee 8/19/08, Toronto 8/21/09, Chicago 8/23/09
Chicago 8/24/09, Indianapolis 5/7/10, Ed Chicago 6/29/11, Alpine Valley 9/3/11 and 9/4/11, Wrigley 7/19/13, Moline 10/18/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14
What about pitchers like gaylord perry?
And how do you determine who took steroids and who didn't? Bagwell was never connected to steroids, yet writers are assuming he was juicing and he got less than 42% of the votes.
In Verducci's defense, I think he was just explaining why Bagwell wasn't going to get in this year. I don't think he was actually expressing his own opinion. It was more a summary of what was going to happen. And he was right about everything.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
On a personal level though, I hope Roger Clemens never gets in. I can't stand that fucking douchebag. Bonds is the greatest offensive player I'll probably see in my life - and most likely wouldve been that no matter what. But F Clemens. Can't stand that piece of shit.
griffey would have been better overall than bonds if he didn't get hurt.
And you'll never know that. Loved Griffey - sweetest swing the history of ever. But Bonds, steroids or not, had the best plate discipline/strike recognition ever. Ever. Total jerk/dick/douche, but the greatest offensive player I'll ever see. Maybe, just maybe, Pujols will break that, but overall offensive player - Bonds.
not talking about steriods or anything else.
of course you'll never know for sure. that's why its a great argument. guy was robbed of the prime of his career. played better defense at a more important position too. man i loved me some griffey in the 90's....
incidentally i always loved watching pre-steroids bonds play back in the day too....
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/sport ... f=baseball
When a guy like Jason Grimsley was juicing all bets are off
The whole era is suspect
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
And that's why under the rules of the time, if they didn't violate any written rules against it, then they should be allowed in.
Baseball writers are asses. It's their only claim to power. Just put up a sign in Cooperstown along the lines of the performance-enhanced era and end it already.
I agree
Every decade in baseball has had its "cheating" phase if you will
Not sure any other sport has been so dirty with its cheating
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers