Some more information on why this bill is no good.....
Wondering what the all knowing "godfather" has to say about this......? Hope you actually address this directly, since you are the biggest advocate of the bill... Also the bill has been changed, considering some of the language was actually related to racial profiling..... :roll: . Man I wish they would have listened to us and acknowledged it from the beginning,, it would have saved us a lot of debating..... :roll: :roll:
I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
I'ma quote this beast, just for you Godfather
Anyways, I thought a few forms, a bank draft, and a 4 month wait for my dad's PR Card was bad! :shock: (PR Card = Permanent Resident card in Canada, btw. You can get your citizenship after it but my dad has chosen not to).
You've made some really great points, thanks for your insight its nice to hear some facts from people who have had to endure the process.
I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.
Anyways, I thought a few forms, a bank draft, and a 4 month wait for my dad's PR Card was bad! :shock: (PR Card = Permanent Resident card in Canada, btw. You can get your citizenship after it but my dad has chosen not to).
You've made some really great points, thanks for your insight its nice to hear some facts from people who have had to endure the process.
Sorry, it was kinda long... I got on a roll and couldn't stop myself lol
The funny thing is, if we were to move to New Zealand, my wife would have to fill out one form and pay a one time fee (that's roughly 1/15 of what I've had to pay so far) and that would be it.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
I have friends who are also in this process and they've told me the cost is really prohibitive. Did you have to hire an immigration lawyer? Also, I think it's noteworthy that you've gone through this whole ordeal and that's with being married to a US citizen! I know it's a lot harder if you're not married. My best friend actually had to marry her boyfriend just so he could be legal to get a job so he could help with the rent. And that only enables him to be here legally; he probably won't be able to afford citizenship. (Interesting how you have to buy citizenship, isn't it?)
Yeah, I totally got in "the easy way" - technically, if I haven't been convicted of any crimes while living here, my application can't be denied as the spouse of an American. Yet it still takes several years, a ton of forms, and several thousands of dollars in fees (someone once accused me on The Porch of not being that big a Pearl Jam fan because I haven't gone on road trips to see them while living here - I was bitching about them not coming to New Orleans at the time - but that's exactly why I wasn't able to see them. All of my "spending money" so to speak has been spent on gaining residency, and a vacation home that I had to save for for several years because it's so damn expensive to fly to NZ. As Lewis Black once said, if New Zealanders want to be a part of the rest of the world, they should get off their island and push it closer to the rest of us ).
The process could've been MUCH harder. I know solely from a Student Visa standpoint that if you're coming from a predominantly Muslim country that it's damn near impossible to get in. You need to provide five years' worth of bank statements from your parents, your neighbours, your parents' friends, and your parents' coworkers. There are also certain courses you can't take at a university (my old roommate was an engineering student from Pakistan and he was told he was not allowed to take any nuclear engineering classes. You know, "just in case." If my old roommate WAS a terrorist, the world would be in a much better place - Al Qaeda would be too busy getting stoned and watching porn like he did every day to worry anyone). The funny thing is, if you want to find someone who REALLY hates Al Qaeda, go and talk to a Muslim. All of my Muslim friends would love to see Bin Laden's head on a platter, because he has made life absolute hell for the 99.99% of Muslims worldwide who just want to live in peace. Yet if you talk to some conservatives they'd have you believe every Muslim on the planet is plotting America's downfall because women have the right to vote here. I've known a lot of Muslims while living here, and none of them cared one bit about who could vote and who couldn't - the only arguments they were interested in were over which country had a better soccer or cricket team (or whether Hindi porn was better than European porn).
No, I didn't hire an immigration lawyer. I met with one for a free consultation before the process began, and got a bad vibe from him. He seemed to be in the dark about a lot of things, and the only thing he knew for sure was that if he filled out the forms on my behalf, it would cost me extra. I decided to save the money and do it myself. Did your friends hire lawyers? How are they finding the process?
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
The process could've been MUCH harder. I know solely from a Student Visa standpoint that if you're coming from a predominantly Muslim country that it's damn near impossible to get in. You need to provide five years' worth of bank statements from your parents, your neighbours, your parents' friends, and your parents' coworkers. There are also certain courses you can't take at a university (my old roommate was an engineering student from Pakistan and he was told he was not allowed to take any nuclear engineering classes. You know, "just in case."
WOW. :shock: Just... wow. :( (Is there an emoticon of a someone shaking her head in disbelief and disdain?)
No, I didn't hire an immigration lawyer. I met with one for a free consultation before the process began, and got a bad vibe from him. He seemed to be in the dark about a lot of things, and the only thing he knew for sure was that if he filled out the forms on my behalf, it would cost me extra. I decided to save the money and do it myself. Did your friends hire lawyers? How are they finding the process?
Well, I've had different friends go through the process in different ways at different times. Thankfully, my friend knows a lot about the process (her last boyfriend of 11 years was an immigrant too) and has connections with immigration lawyers. So I THINK she is just consulting her connections unofficially. :?: Her "husband" would never have been able to go through this process without her help, knowledge, and connections though. It's been very hard even with them working on it together. And they didn't feel like they could find any solution at all other than to get married. Good thing he's a great guy!
Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.
Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
nah...if a teabagger threw a bottle at a cop, fellow teabaggers would simply blame obama and his fascist/socialist ways...
seriously, though...what do teabaggers have to do with this conversation...?
Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.
Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
Not trying to justify the bottle throwing- Which I agree- its stupid. It seems to be some stupid kids.
But this is one of the reason's the vast majority of people don't like the tea party groups...Now this is sad
I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!""
I'll assume you're familiar with the above text, and, in particular, where you can read it if you so choose. Last time I checked, there's no mention of there being a literacy test. The inscription doesn't read "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but only if they can spell 'antidisestablishmentarianism.'" If people needed to pass a literacy test to live in America, a good number of people born and raised in the 50 states would have to be shipped back to England (good god people, is it THAT hard to figure out the difference between "your" and "you're"? Not only that, but "I could care less" doesn't make any bloody sense. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think that phrase means what you think it means).
I was always under the impression that the "American Dream" was the chance to improve your lot in life. People move here from all over the world so they can make sure their kids have opportunities they never had. That's something you should be incredibly, and justifiably, proud of.
However, it seems like a lot of people - yourself included, judging from your quote - believe that the "American Dream" - the chance to improve your lot in life - should only apply to those who already fall into the category of the "haves."
In other words, if you come from a Mexican town so small it doesn't have a school or running water, and you never learned to read, and your entire family lives in one room, and all you want is the chance to put in a solid day's work five days a week so your children can go to school and get themselves out of the future they appear to be consigned to - tough shit.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.
Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
Did you hang around to the end of the video to see what the Fox reporter had to say? After the student leader condoned the bottle throwing, the reporter said nobody was hurt, most of the people weren't participating in any sort of violence, and the next step was legal challenges and more peaceful protest. Meanwhile, the guy who threw the bottle was arrested (as he should've been). Was the guy who threw the bottle in the wrong? Hell yeah - violence is nothing more than a waste of energy, it does nothing but rile up your opponent even more and ensure you move further and further away from a resolution.
There you have it - I'm a liberal, and I'm personally saying the guy who threw the bottle was wrong to do so. Feel free to feel a little less crazy.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.
Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
How can you suggest in a thread where people are up in arms about bottle-throwing that there aren't threads and people up in arms about the bottle-throwing? :?
I just think people's actions should be judged on the merits or lack thereof of the actions themselves. What other people do doesn't have any bearing on what's inappropriate.
throw bottles at the cops and insult them. then call them the next day because your neighbors dog shit in your yard. idiots.
Cut a gas line at a politician's house and invite fellow activists to "stop by" (even though they got the wrong house), then call him when you want him to vote a certain way. Idiots.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
If people needed to pass a literacy test to live in America, a good number of people born and raised in the 50 states would have to be shipped back to England (good god people, is it THAT hard to figure out the difference between "your" and "you're"? Not only that, but "I could care less" doesn't make any bloody sense. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think that phrase means what you think it means).
Well we haven’t chained ourselves to anything yet but if it works we may as well....but I do think they had something to do with getting some democrats out of the White House. Just buy having PEACEFUL protest.....
So am to understand that for a group to have a PEACEFUL protest it has to be done like how the Tea Party does their protesting for it to be acceptable to you?
Other than you who here has a problem with protest of chaining oneself to district offices or sitins etc? I thought your problem with this protest was the *violent* nature of the protest in starting this thread. However, you still have problems when it is non violent and just a matter of civil disobedience of being chained.
Peace
I was answering a question....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.
Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:[/quote]
Not trying to justify the bottle throwing- Which I agree- its stupid. It seems to be some stupid kids.
But this is one of the reason's the vast majority of people don't like the tea party groups...Now this is sad
Oh cry me a freaking river!..the protesters are yelling at him.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction...... Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....Have you seen the Video of Obamas thugs from SEIU beating up a Tea Party patron and calling him the N word as the 3 guys beat him? Why was this not in the lame stream media? and nothing from Obama announcing how they acted stupidly...
Post edited by aerial on
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Oh cry me a freaking river!.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction......do you think it more appropriate to throw a bottle at his head? Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....
Cry you a river? You make it seem like what happen was ok.... I do not agree with the bottle throwing - and I think it's horrible. But I would rather be hit with a bottle then to be dehumanized like that - That is scaring for life, why would anyone want to live in a world that treats people like that? You really have to have some hate inside of you to do such a thing......
Oh cry me a freaking river!.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction......do you think it more appropriate to throw a bottle at his head? Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....
Cry you a river? You make it seem like what happen was ok.... I do not agree with the bottle throwing - and I think it's horrible. But I would rather be hit with a bottle then to be dehumanized like that - That is scaring for life, why would anyone want to live in a world that treats people like that? You really have to have some hate inside of you to do such a thing......
Yes I hate liars....I hate the fact that people try and make the Tea Party out to be racists violent haters....and I hate the fact people call people they don’t know haters
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Cry you a river? You make it seem like what happen was ok.... I do not agree with the bottle throwing - and I think it's horrible. But I would rather be hit with a bottle then to be dehumanized like that - That is scaring for life, why would anyone want to live in a world that treats people like that? You really have to have some hate inside of you to do such a thing......
Yes I hate liars....I hate the fact that people try and make the Tea Party out to be racists violent haters....and I hate the fact people call people they don’t know haters
Well I'm not calling you a hater, at least not yet, but what happened in that video is disgusting and even if that sick man would have spat on the tea party folks, it still doesn't deserve that type of dehumanization...... they treated him like an animal.... its completely disheartening....Imagine yourself in that position-
Another thing, I am assuming you are a member or at least a support the tea party movement- Can you answer me something - if the tea party movement is about small government or less social programs- why aren't they giving up there Social Security checks, there medicare,, etc..etc... ? that would be a strong statement..... But none of them are willing to do that, so why aren't they willing to accept Universal Health care and what not.... I don't understand that..
Oh cry me a freaking river!..the protesters are yelling at him.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction...... Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....Have you seen the Video of Obamas thugs from SEIU beating up a Tea Party patron and calling him the N word as the 3 guys beat him? Why was this not in the lame stream media? and nothing from Obama announcing how they acted stupidly...
...first of all your ability of assumption is mystifying.
Secondly... weren't they all white in that video?
oh and thirdly, I will always be dumbfounded on how many of these Americans attribute healthcare to communism... its hilarious! Do they realise other countries with established health care systems just look at them and laugh?
Yes I hate liars....I hate the fact that people try and make the Tea Party out to be racists violent haters....and I hate the fact people call people they don’t know haters
People might be getting to know your thoughts from the types of threads you start. Your threads ARE beginning to have a hateful theme to them. :geek:
Yes I hate liars....I hate the fact that people try and make the Tea Party out to be racists violent haters....and I hate the fact people call people they don’t know haters
I find it fascinating that you are so... passionate... about the Tea Party. I mean it seems like no matter what discussion we are having, you bring up the Tea Party and get all up in arms defending them - even if no one's attacking them. Why is that? And were you this passionate about other things before the Tea Party provided this opportunity to get so strongly behind something? I'm really just curious.
Oh cry me a freaking river!..the protesters are yelling at him.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction...... Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....Have you seen the Video of Obamas thugs from SEIU beating up a Tea Party patron and calling him the N word as the 3 guys beat him? Why was this not in the lame stream media? and nothing from Obama announcing how they acted stupidly...
...first of all your ability of assumption is mystifying.
Secondly... weren't they all white in that video?
oh and thirdly, I will always be dumbfounded on how many of these Americans attribute healthcare to communism... its hilarious! Do they realise other countries with established health care systems just look at them and laugh?
What do you know? You're Canadian! According to the media here, your healthcare system is horrible and people can't wait to cross the border to get seen to by REAL doctors (even though Sarah Palin admitted to sneaking into Canada to get healthcare)
In NZ, we have fully socialized healthcare and it works great. The government pays all of your medical bills (so there's no need for health insurance - though you have the option of buying health insurance plans if you want to use a private hospital instead of a public one). If you're hurt in an accident you are not allowed to sue, but, once again, the government will pay 100% of your health care bills. Socialized healthcare hasn't led to the country going bankrupt (on the contrary, we enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world), and it hasn't led to scores of Kiwis dying in the streets because the system is collapsing around them (our public hospitals are actually really good). So, at the risk of threadjacking, I'm with you all the way on this.
Now, please continue with your regularly scheduled discussion about how Mexicans are racist because they protested an anti-Mexican bill...
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Comments
Wondering what the all knowing "godfather" has to say about this......? Hope you actually address this directly, since you are the biggest advocate of the bill... Also the bill has been changed, considering some of the language was actually related to racial profiling..... :roll: . Man I wish they would have listened to us and acknowledged it from the beginning,, it would have saved us a lot of debating..... :roll: :roll:
http://origin-drupal.foxnews.com/on-air ... t_id=87253
Anyways, I thought a few forms, a bank draft, and a 4 month wait for my dad's PR Card was bad! :shock: (PR Card = Permanent Resident card in Canada, btw. You can get your citizenship after it but my dad has chosen not to).
You've made some really great points, thanks for your insight its nice to hear some facts from people who have had to endure the process.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.
Sorry, it was kinda long... I got on a roll and couldn't stop myself lol
The funny thing is, if we were to move to New Zealand, my wife would have to fill out one form and pay a one time fee (that's roughly 1/15 of what I've had to pay so far) and that would be it.
Yeah, I totally got in "the easy way" - technically, if I haven't been convicted of any crimes while living here, my application can't be denied as the spouse of an American. Yet it still takes several years, a ton of forms, and several thousands of dollars in fees (someone once accused me on The Porch of not being that big a Pearl Jam fan because I haven't gone on road trips to see them while living here - I was bitching about them not coming to New Orleans at the time - but that's exactly why I wasn't able to see them. All of my "spending money" so to speak has been spent on gaining residency, and a vacation home that I had to save for for several years because it's so damn expensive to fly to NZ. As Lewis Black once said, if New Zealanders want to be a part of the rest of the world, they should get off their island and push it closer to the rest of us
The process could've been MUCH harder. I know solely from a Student Visa standpoint that if you're coming from a predominantly Muslim country that it's damn near impossible to get in. You need to provide five years' worth of bank statements from your parents, your neighbours, your parents' friends, and your parents' coworkers. There are also certain courses you can't take at a university (my old roommate was an engineering student from Pakistan and he was told he was not allowed to take any nuclear engineering classes. You know, "just in case." If my old roommate WAS a terrorist, the world would be in a much better place - Al Qaeda would be too busy getting stoned and watching porn like he did every day to worry anyone). The funny thing is, if you want to find someone who REALLY hates Al Qaeda, go and talk to a Muslim. All of my Muslim friends would love to see Bin Laden's head on a platter, because he has made life absolute hell for the 99.99% of Muslims worldwide who just want to live in peace. Yet if you talk to some conservatives they'd have you believe every Muslim on the planet is plotting America's downfall because women have the right to vote here. I've known a lot of Muslims while living here, and none of them cared one bit about who could vote and who couldn't - the only arguments they were interested in were over which country had a better soccer or cricket team (or whether Hindi porn was better than European porn).
No, I didn't hire an immigration lawyer. I met with one for a free consultation before the process began, and got a bad vibe from him. He seemed to be in the dark about a lot of things, and the only thing he knew for sure was that if he filled out the forms on my behalf, it would cost me extra. I decided to save the money and do it myself. Did your friends hire lawyers? How are they finding the process?
WOW. :shock: Just... wow. :( (Is there an emoticon of a someone shaking her head in disbelief and disdain?)
Well, I've had different friends go through the process in different ways at different times. Thankfully, my friend knows a lot about the process (her last boyfriend of 11 years was an immigrant too) and has connections with immigration lawyers. So I THINK she is just consulting her connections unofficially. :?: Her "husband" would never have been able to go through this process without her help, knowledge, and connections though. It's been very hard even with them working on it together. And they didn't feel like they could find any solution at all other than to get married. Good thing he's a great guy!
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:
nah...if a teabagger threw a bottle at a cop, fellow teabaggers would simply blame obama and his fascist/socialist ways...
seriously, though...what do teabaggers have to do with this conversation...?
Not trying to justify the bottle throwing- Which I agree- its stupid. It seems to be some stupid kids.
But this is one of the reason's the vast majority of people don't like the tea party groups...Now this is sad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik4f1dR ... re=related
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!""
I'll assume you're familiar with the above text, and, in particular, where you can read it if you so choose. Last time I checked, there's no mention of there being a literacy test. The inscription doesn't read "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but only if they can spell 'antidisestablishmentarianism.'" If people needed to pass a literacy test to live in America, a good number of people born and raised in the 50 states would have to be shipped back to England (good god people, is it THAT hard to figure out the difference between "your" and "you're"? Not only that, but "I could care less" doesn't make any bloody sense. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think that phrase means what you think it means).
I was always under the impression that the "American Dream" was the chance to improve your lot in life. People move here from all over the world so they can make sure their kids have opportunities they never had. That's something you should be incredibly, and justifiably, proud of.
However, it seems like a lot of people - yourself included, judging from your quote - believe that the "American Dream" - the chance to improve your lot in life - should only apply to those who already fall into the category of the "haves."
In other words, if you come from a Mexican town so small it doesn't have a school or running water, and you never learned to read, and your entire family lives in one room, and all you want is the chance to put in a solid day's work five days a week so your children can go to school and get themselves out of the future they appear to be consigned to - tough shit.
Did you hang around to the end of the video to see what the Fox reporter had to say? After the student leader condoned the bottle throwing, the reporter said nobody was hurt, most of the people weren't participating in any sort of violence, and the next step was legal challenges and more peaceful protest. Meanwhile, the guy who threw the bottle was arrested (as he should've been). Was the guy who threw the bottle in the wrong? Hell yeah - violence is nothing more than a waste of energy, it does nothing but rile up your opponent even more and ensure you move further and further away from a resolution.
There you have it - I'm a liberal, and I'm personally saying the guy who threw the bottle was wrong to do so. Feel free to feel a little less crazy.
wow...the person who threw the bottle called the cops the next day...about dog shit...
that's just plain crazy...
How can you suggest in a thread where people are up in arms about bottle-throwing that there aren't threads and people up in arms about the bottle-throwing? :?
I just think people's actions should be judged on the merits or lack thereof of the actions themselves. What other people do doesn't have any bearing on what's inappropriate.
Cut a gas line at a politician's house and invite fellow activists to "stop by" (even though they got the wrong house), then call him when you want him to vote a certain way. Idiots.
Yeah, but you should've seen the size of the turd...
im pointing out that cops get shit all the time yet they still serve the publics needs no matter what.
Generalize much?
why didn't you say so in the first place...?
almost as much as you do.
Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:[/quote]
Not trying to justify the bottle throwing- Which I agree- its stupid. It seems to be some stupid kids.
But this is one of the reason's the vast majority of people don't like the tea party groups...Now this is sad
Oh cry me a freaking river!..the protesters are yelling at him.....the guy put himself there looking to get a reaction...... Who knows what he said to the protesters....in fact he probably called out some racial slurs and spit on them ....Have you seen the Video of Obamas thugs from SEIU beating up a Tea Party patron and calling him the N word as the 3 guys beat him? Why was this not in the lame stream media? and nothing from Obama announcing how they acted stupidly...
Cry you a river? You make it seem like what happen was ok.... I do not agree with the bottle throwing - and I think it's horrible. But I would rather be hit with a bottle then to be dehumanized like that - That is scaring for life, why would anyone want to live in a world that treats people like that? You really have to have some hate inside of you to do such a thing......
Well I'm not calling you a hater, at least not yet, but what happened in that video is disgusting and even if that sick man would have spat on the tea party folks, it still doesn't deserve that type of dehumanization...... they treated him like an animal.... its completely disheartening....Imagine yourself in that position-
Another thing, I am assuming you are a member or at least a support the tea party movement- Can you answer me something - if the tea party movement is about small government or less social programs- why aren't they giving up there Social Security checks, there medicare,, etc..etc... ? that would be a strong statement..... But none of them are willing to do that, so why aren't they willing to accept Universal Health care and what not.... I don't understand that..
Secondly... weren't they all white in that video?
oh and thirdly, I will always be dumbfounded on how many of these Americans attribute healthcare to communism... its hilarious! Do they realise other countries with established health care systems just look at them and laugh?
People might be getting to know your thoughts from the types of threads you start. Your threads ARE beginning to have a hateful theme to them. :geek:
I find it fascinating that you are so... passionate... about the Tea Party. I mean it seems like no matter what discussion we are having, you bring up the Tea Party and get all up in arms defending them - even if no one's attacking them. Why is that? And were you this passionate about other things before the Tea Party provided this opportunity to get so strongly behind something? I'm really just curious.
What do you know? You're Canadian! According to the media here, your healthcare system is horrible and people can't wait to cross the border to get seen to by REAL doctors (even though Sarah Palin admitted to sneaking into Canada to get healthcare)
In NZ, we have fully socialized healthcare and it works great. The government pays all of your medical bills (so there's no need for health insurance - though you have the option of buying health insurance plans if you want to use a private hospital instead of a public one). If you're hurt in an accident you are not allowed to sue, but, once again, the government will pay 100% of your health care bills. Socialized healthcare hasn't led to the country going bankrupt (on the contrary, we enjoy one of the highest standards of living in the world), and it hasn't led to scores of Kiwis dying in the streets because the system is collapsing around them (our public hospitals are actually really good). So, at the risk of threadjacking, I'm with you all the way on this.
Now, please continue with your regularly scheduled discussion about how Mexicans are racist because they protested an anti-Mexican bill...