My stance is not to give them a license. My ex used to deal with them all the time because I'm near a heavily populated area of Mexicans. They never had insurance or licenses so she used to have their vehicles towed all of the time.
I've heard of or seen three accidents where I suspected illegals involvement. The first was at work where I used to build houses, a car full backed into a colleagues car. They tried to give him $10 not to call the police and to fix the damage to his fender. As soon as I got on the phone three got out and started running. Another colleague had his daughter killed by an illegal alien in a car accident, he was drunk too. My uncle had to box in another with his car when this person attempted to flee the scene in his car after causing an accident.
My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. He was W.M.A. and had a license. this was in Colorado about ten years ago. He served no jail time.
When i was in college I had a car accident. Some dude (W.M.A.) slammed into my drivers side door as i was making a very legal left... (he was three cars back.. thought we were all just going to slow... couldn't see my directional... as he was three cars back... so he tried to pass us all by sliding over the double yellow line and slamming into me...) the cops came. they kept him from me. Don't know if he was drunk or not... but he had no insurance... but the cops shielded him and let him go... found out when we got the accident report that he had no insurance (illegal in NY state) ... found out years later who he was... he was a cop's kid.
I know many "illegal's" with licenses. they were all VERY happy when NY state made it legal for them to actually learn how to drive, legally, and were able to get a license and insurance and obey the laws. I would prefer hard working people in my community to be able to drive to and from their jobs... knowing the rules of the road in my community... with licenses.... and that is my stance.
W.M.A.
He won the lottery by being born
Big hand slapped a white male American
Do no wrong, so clean cut...
Dirty his hands, it comes right off
Police man... Police man
(verb/noun... verb/noun)
Unsung - I don't understand your logic here & I think you're being prejudiced. You complain that undocumented immigrants don't have driver's licenses or car insurance but then say they they SHOULDN'T have driver's licenses (or, therefore, car insurance). :?
Then you say they should be kept off the streets, which you know is unrealistic and which suggests that you think that, because you know of a few car accidents involving undocumented immigrants, you think none of them can drive. Is that what you are saying? If so, that's a perfect example of prejudice. My experience is that 100% of the time I've been hit by someone driving irresponsibly, it was a male citizen of the United States. Should I then think "those people" can't drive and should be kept off the streets?
And now you're saying human beings without proper documentation should be charged more for medical care so it prevents them from getting care for their sick children? Well I think people like you, who are inhumane, should be turned away from places where human beings are treated and sent, instead, to the vet. Oh wait - even the dog in the video in that other thread was more humane than you, so they probably wouldn't take you either.
get off your high horse SCB. you have never been prejudiced in your entire life????? i bet even ghandi had some prejudices. also i dont think he is that inhumane since your line of work requires you to deny certain medical procedures to illegals. i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Unsung- why make such a wide sweeping law which effects so many people and areas of our nation but merely basing your strong opinion on a very minor (you mention 3), accidents? Seems a bit rash to me.
Post edited by FiveB247x on
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
SCB - why make such a wide sweeping law which effects so many people and areas of our nation but merely basing your strong opinion on a very minor (you mention 3), accidents? Seems a bit rash to me.
get off your high horse SCB. you have never been prejudiced in your entire life????? i bet even ghandi had some prejudices. also i dont think he is that inhumane since your line of work requires you to deny certain medical procedures to illegals. i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Prejudiced in her entire life? You really don't see how the post below is beyond a reasonable "bias?"
Are you just arguing to piss off scb? I really don't undesrstand your point here....
My stance is not to give them a license. My ex used to deal with them all the time because I'm near a heavily populated area of Mexicans. They never had insurance or licenses so she used to have their vehicles towed all of the time.
I've heard of or seen three accidents where I suspected illegals involvement. The first was at work where I used to build houses, a car full backed into a colleagues car. They tried to give him $10 not to call the police and to fix the damage to his fender. As soon as I got on the phone three got out and started running. Another colleague had his daughter killed by an illegal alien in a car accident, he was drunk too. My uncle had to box in another with his car when this person attempted to flee the scene in his car after causing an accident.
So my stance is to keep them off the streets.
Oh and I also think they should pay more for medical services than citizens. Enough of this going to the ER because their kids have the sniffles.
get off your high horse SCB. you have never been prejudiced in your entire life????? i bet even ghandi had some prejudices. also i dont think he is that inhumane since your line of work requires you to deny certain medical procedures to illegals. i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Of course I have had prejudice. Everyone has prejudice every day. But it's our responsibility to recognize it and not act on it - and certainly not make sweeping state laws based on it. And unsung basically said that we should try prevent CHILDREN from receiving MEDICAL CARE, even if their parents were able to pay for it to begin with. How is denying medical care to children not inhumane? My assessment of him is based on more than just this one post, by the way.
And the purpose of my job is to HELP patients figure out how to get medical care despite their limited resources. If our government says they can't get an ultrasound unless they pay $1000 that they don't have, I have to relay that information and try to help them figure out how to deal with it. Wow. Asshole-ish again. :roll:
And I'm not going to apologize for having more relevant life experience than you. Get over it. You could actually learn something now and then.
SCB - why make such a wide sweeping law which effects so many people and areas of our nation but merely basing your strong opinion on a very minor (you mention 3), accidents? Seems a bit rash to me.
wasn't that unsung?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
get off your high horse SCB. you have never been prejudiced in your entire life????? i bet even ghandi had some prejudices. also i dont think he is that inhumane since your line of work requires you to deny certain medical procedures to illegals. i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Of course I have had prejudice. Everyone has prejudice every day. But it's our responsibility to recognize it and not act on it - and certainly not make sweeping state laws based on it. And unsung basically said that we should try prevent CHILDREN from receiving MEDICAL CARE, even if their parents were able to pay for it to begin with. How is denying medical care to children not inhumane? My assessment of him is based on more than just this one post, by the way.
And the purpose of my job is to HELP patients figure out how to get medical care despite their limited resources. If our government says they can't get an ultrasound unless they pay $1000 that they don't have, I have to relay that information and try to help them figure out how to deal with it. Wow. Asshole-ish again. :roll:
And I'm not going to apologize for having more relevant life experience than you. Get over it. You could actually learn something now and then.
I am over it, i was never really upset about it. I dont even know if its all even true...
yes i have learned something. you are completely dismissive of peoples opinions that differ from your own. plus it wasnt asshole-ish...i am just referring to what YOU stated in an earlier post. if anything this thread has emboldened my belief and backing of this legislation. so thanks...i guess. but go on and keep dismissing ideas as asshole-ish and prejudiced. you will always win that way.
i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Are you giving her shit for having "life expereince" like living on a reservation... and having friends that were beaten and murdered? :shock:
i have never said anything bad about that so i wouldnt even presume or hint that i am. also...just another side track from the real discussion here. nice work.
I am over it, i was never really upset about it. I dont even know if its all even true...
yes i have learned something. you are completely dismissive of peoples opinions that differ from your own. plus it wasnt asshole-ish...i am just referring to what YOU stated in an earlier post. if anything this thread has emboldened my belief and backing of this legislation. so thanks...i guess. but go on and keep dismissing ideas as asshole-ish and prejudiced. you will always win that way.
"I don't even know if it's all true"? What is that supposed to mean? Please note that I have not dismissed any of your IDEAS as asshole-ish. I have referred to your snide personal remarks about me as asshole-ish.
And I haven't dismissed your opinions... I have disagreed with them, which is different. I'm pretty sure I have addressed every one of them.
i have never said anything bad about that so i wouldnt even presume or hint that i am. also...just another side track from the real discussion here. nice work.
She wasn't the one creating the side track. She was addressing the side track that YOU created with your snide comments about me and my personal life experience.
i cannot wait to see what other life experience you can now relate to my posting...
Are you giving her shit for having "life expereince" like living on a reservation... and having friends that were beaten and murdered? :shock:
i have never said anything bad about that so i wouldnt even presume or hint that i am. also...just another side track from the real discussion here. nice work.
NEVER have I tried to sidetrack the real discussion. the real discussion is all i've participated in... YOU are the one who absolutely tried to discount scb's life experiences and how they relate to the opinions she has formed throughout her life and has chosen to express on this board.
She wasn't the one creating the side track. She was addressing the side track that YOU created with your snide comments about me and my personal life experience.
EXACTLY! WTF is going on here? It seems as though people are just trying to fight... and in this case make it personal.... just for the sake of fighting... :evil:
No violence in the video were the people were chained to the building ok scb?....isn’t that a bit crazy to do?........are they uneducated or what? That’s no way to change the law.....looks like they just wanted to be on the news
You really should stop calling people names. You particularly shouldn't talk shit about people when you're the one making the mistakes.
In this case, it's you who is uneducated, not them. Blocking, chaining oneself to, and/or occupying a building is a common and historically significant method of civil disobedience. And civil disobedience has changed MANY laws. Ever hear of Gandhi and the independence of India from British colonial rule? Ever hear of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the American civil rights movement? Give me your address and I'll send you a history book for your birthday.
Did chaining ones selves to buildings really prove to change any law ?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
No violence in the video were the people were chained to the building ok scb?....isn’t that a bit crazy to do?........are they uneducated or what? That’s no way to change the law.....looks like they just wanted to be on the news
You really should stop calling people names. You particularly shouldn't talk shit about people when you're the one making the mistakes.
In this case, it's you who is uneducated, not them. Blocking, chaining oneself to, and/or occupying a building is a common and historically significant method of civil disobedience. And civil disobedience has changed MANY laws. Ever hear of Gandhi and the independence of India from British colonial rule? Ever hear of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the American civil rights movement? Give me your address and I'll send you a history book for your birthday.
I'm pretty sure though that if the Tea Party people chose to use this form of civil disobedience she wouldn't have a problem with it. We used this method in protesting the Vietnam War, Civil Rights SitIn in Greensboro NC. You do remember the time when in our American History we (when I say we I mean white people) refused to serve people of color at lunch counters. They chose to sitin until served, they weren't and were spit on, food poured on and finally arrested. It worked as the sitins caught on and businesses started to lose money around the South.
So civil disobedience does work and can work, one of the BEST American ways of protesting.
Did chaining ones selves to buildings really prove to change any law ?
Over time this may prove to make a difference, one never knows where the intial form of protesting and it's effects will lead to change.
Did any of the Tea Party MANY protest marches lead to any change to any laws?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Well we haven’t chained ourselves to anything yet but if it works we may as well....but I do think they had something to do with getting some democrats out of the White House. Just buy having PEACEFUL protest.....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Well we haven’t chained ourselves to anything yet but if it works we may as well....but I do think they had something to do with getting some democrats out of the White House. Just buy having PEACEFUL protest.....
So am to understand that for a group to have a PEACEFUL protest it has to be done like how the Tea Party does their protesting for it to be acceptable to you?
Other than you who here has a problem with protest of chaining oneself to district offices or sitins etc? I thought your problem with this protest was the *violent* nature of the protest in starting this thread. However, you still have problems when it is non violent and just a matter of civil disobedience of being chained.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Who says protests of any kind have to be peaceful and how does this exactly equate to the legitimacy of the cause or lack their of? In my opinion, some of the greatest social and political changes were at the hands of violent and rebellious acts. The notion that you have to be peaceful and respectful of those who are in many instances discriminating or carrying out injustice at great lengths is merely silly.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
based on the thread title, i thought this thread was supposed to be about violent protests in Arkansas.....isn't the proper abbreviation for Arizona AZ????
Libs like you are such sticklers for literacy! :P
Of course - if we couldn't spell correctly, someone might deport us the next time we're in Arizona.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
based on the thread title, i thought this thread was supposed to be about violent protests in Arkansas.....isn't the proper abbreviation for Arizona AZ????
Libs like you are such sticklers for literacy! :P
Of course - if we couldn't spell correctly, someone might deport us the next time we're in Arizona.
Yikes and I'm driving from (FL) Florida to (AZ) Arizona for a month this summer. I'm going to have to drag out my passport just for this trip, I wonder if everybody else has to do the same?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited May 2010
I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.
And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their approval to come through.
Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.
No violence in the video were the people were chained to the building ok scb?....isn’t that a bit crazy to do?........are they uneducated or what? That’s no way to change the law.....looks like they just wanted to be on the news
You really should stop calling people names. You particularly shouldn't talk shit about people when you're the one making the mistakes.
In this case, it's you who is uneducated, not them. Blocking, chaining oneself to, and/or occupying a building is a common and historically significant method of civil disobedience. And civil disobedience has changed MANY laws. Ever hear of Gandhi and the independence of India from British colonial rule? Ever hear of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the American civil rights movement? Give me your address and I'll send you a history book for your birthday.
Did chaining ones selves to buildings really prove to change any law ?
As a part of civil disobedience, it has changed the world.
Yikes and I'm driving from (FL) Florida to (AZ) Arizona for a month this summer. I'm going to have to drag out my passport just for this trip, I wonder if everybody else has to do the same?
Peace
Dude, considering that (I'm pretty sure) aerial lives in FL, I'd think even AZ would be safer!
I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.
Because our country is a big part of the reason why they can't feed their families. Because we can, because we're the richest nation in the world and we became the richest nation in the world by fucking over other countries like Mexico. Most importantly, because they're already here and we shouldn't turn our backs on our fellow human beings.
And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their aproval to come through.
Only a truly evil person would want to deny medical care to a sick child, especially when their parents are willing to pay for it.
Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.
Dude - They're immigrants, they're not from Pluto! And, what's this? You the defender of the Natives now? :roll: I called them Indians because that is an appropriate term for me to call them. I lived in what Native Americans and others in the Southwest call "Indian Country" and all my friends refer to themselves as Indians. When I was growing up there, no one used the term Native American and it seems unnatural to me to use it now. When I do call them Native Americans (though the more popular term these days is American Indian), it's only so as not to be confused with someone like you who would call them Indians out of disrespect.
I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.
And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their approval to come through.
Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.
We are not already burden, as you put it, countries in Africa are burdened and by comparison we got it pretty good.
Things here are not as good as they use to be but you know what, I still have a pretty good standard of living, even if I am shouldering the burden for a few others
I heard this quote attributed to David Letterman today: "They say there are about 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. But if you ask a Native American, that number is more like 300 million."
Anyway, great post! Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us so we can better understand the reality of the citizenship process. We all talk so much about it but none of us has ever personally experienced it.
I have friends who are also in this process and they've told me the cost is really prohibitive. Did you have to hire an immigration lawyer? Also, I think it's noteworthy that you've gone through this whole ordeal and that's with being married to a US citizen! I know it's a lot harder if you're not married. My best friend actually had to marry her boyfriend just so he could be legal to get a job so he could help with the rent. And that only enables him to be here legally; he probably won't be able to afford citizenship. (Interesting how you have to buy citizenship, isn't it?)
It's amazing to me that the process (which so many people act like is so easy) is so designed to set you up for failure. You really can't help but break some of the rules sometimes. For instance, as you said, you've broken a rule if you go home to see your mom before she dies. Do they really expect anyone to follow that rule under those kinds of circumstances?? Who wouldn't break that rule? And we all know that most of the people who came here because they are living in a state of poverty we can't even imagine will never be able to afford to buy citizenship or legal residency. So what do we expect? Of course they'll just be here illegally. I'd like to know who among us wouldn't do the exact same thing if in the exact same situation. (But I guess that whole "Never judge a person until you've walked a mile in his shoes" adage was abandoned long ago.) That's a great analogy about the sick child and the pharmacy. I wish people would actually answer the question of what they would do. But instead they'll just say it's not relevant, though we all know that in many circumstances it really is. (And anyone who doesn't know this should make more of an effort to walk a mile in others' shoes.)
I have to point out, though, that although many of the English settlers did come here for a better life, the intention of the Europeans who came here initially was to exploit this land and its people. And that's just what they've done.
Anyway, thanks again for the thoughtful and elucidating post. :thumbup:
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I do. and I would agree with you that the process needs to be made easier and less expensive for people.
My 1st cousin married a guy from Brazil and he had to jump through hoops as well. I think it took him about 5 years before he finnally got his citizenship. In his own words he told me it was worth it though bcos ther is no way he could even dream of having the life he has now if he were still in Brazil.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I do. and I would agree with you that the process needs to be made easier and less expensive for people.
My 1st cousin married a guy from Brazil and he had to jump through hoops as well. I think it took him about 5 years before he finnally got his citizenship. In his own words he told me it was worth it though bcos ther is no way he could even dream of having the life he has now if he were still in Brazil.
That's great that your cousin's husband had the resources to be able to do that.
Comments
My cousin was killed by a drunk driver. He was W.M.A. and had a license. this was in Colorado about ten years ago. He served no jail time.
When i was in college I had a car accident. Some dude (W.M.A.) slammed into my drivers side door as i was making a very legal left... (he was three cars back.. thought we were all just going to slow... couldn't see my directional... as he was three cars back... so he tried to pass us all by sliding over the double yellow line and slamming into me...) the cops came. they kept him from me. Don't know if he was drunk or not... but he had no insurance... but the cops shielded him and let him go... found out when we got the accident report that he had no insurance (illegal in NY state) ... found out years later who he was... he was a cop's kid.
I know many "illegal's" with licenses. they were all VERY happy when NY state made it legal for them to actually learn how to drive, legally, and were able to get a license and insurance and obey the laws. I would prefer hard working people in my community to be able to drive to and from their jobs... knowing the rules of the road in my community... with licenses.... and that is my stance.
W.M.A.
He won the lottery by being born
Big hand slapped a white male American
Do no wrong, so clean cut...
Dirty his hands, it comes right off
Police man... Police man
(verb/noun... verb/noun)
Then you say they should be kept off the streets, which you know is unrealistic and which suggests that you think that, because you know of a few car accidents involving undocumented immigrants, you think none of them can drive. Is that what you are saying? If so, that's a perfect example of prejudice. My experience is that 100% of the time I've been hit by someone driving irresponsibly, it was a male citizen of the United States. Should I then think "those people" can't drive and should be kept off the streets?
And now you're saying human beings without proper documentation should be charged more for medical care so it prevents them from getting care for their sick children? Well I think people like you, who are inhumane, should be turned away from places where human beings are treated and sent, instead, to the vet. Oh wait - even the dog in the video in that other thread was more humane than you, so they probably wouldn't take you either.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Prejudiced in her entire life? You really don't see how the post below is beyond a reasonable "bias?"
Are you just arguing to piss off scb? I really don't undesrstand your point here....
Of course I have had prejudice. Everyone has prejudice every day. But it's our responsibility to recognize it and not act on it - and certainly not make sweeping state laws based on it. And unsung basically said that we should try prevent CHILDREN from receiving MEDICAL CARE, even if their parents were able to pay for it to begin with. How is denying medical care to children not inhumane? My assessment of him is based on more than just this one post, by the way.
And the purpose of my job is to HELP patients figure out how to get medical care despite their limited resources. If our government says they can't get an ultrasound unless they pay $1000 that they don't have, I have to relay that information and try to help them figure out how to deal with it. Wow. Asshole-ish again. :roll:
And I'm not going to apologize for having more relevant life experience than you. Get over it. You could actually learn something now and then.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Are you giving her shit for having "life expereince" like living on a reservation... and having friends that were beaten and murdered? :shock:
I am over it, i was never really upset about it. I dont even know if its all even true...
yes i have learned something. you are completely dismissive of peoples opinions that differ from your own. plus it wasnt asshole-ish...i am just referring to what YOU stated in an earlier post. if anything this thread has emboldened my belief and backing of this legislation. so thanks...i guess. but go on and keep dismissing ideas as asshole-ish and prejudiced. you will always win that way.
i have never said anything bad about that so i wouldnt even presume or hint that i am. also...just another side track from the real discussion here. nice work.
"I don't even know if it's all true"? What is that supposed to mean? Please note that I have not dismissed any of your IDEAS as asshole-ish. I have referred to your snide personal remarks about me as asshole-ish.
And I haven't dismissed your opinions... I have disagreed with them, which is different. I'm pretty sure I have addressed every one of them.
She wasn't the one creating the side track. She was addressing the side track that YOU created with your snide comments about me and my personal life experience.
NEVER have I tried to sidetrack the real discussion. the real discussion is all i've participated in... YOU are the one who absolutely tried to discount scb's life experiences and how they relate to the opinions she has formed throughout her life and has chosen to express on this board.
EXACTLY! WTF is going on here? It seems as though people are just trying to fight... and in this case make it personal.... just for the sake of fighting... :evil:
Did chaining ones selves to buildings really prove to change any law ?
Over time this may prove to make a difference, one never knows where the intial form of protesting and it's effects will lead to change.
Did any of the Tea Party MANY protest marches lead to any change to any laws?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
So am to understand that for a group to have a PEACEFUL protest it has to be done like how the Tea Party does their protesting for it to be acceptable to you?
Other than you who here has a problem with protest of chaining oneself to district offices or sitins etc? I thought your problem with this protest was the *violent* nature of the protest in starting this thread. However, you still have problems when it is non violent and just a matter of civil disobedience of being chained.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Of course - if we couldn't spell correctly, someone might deport us the next time we're in Arizona.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their approval to come through.
Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.
As a part of civil disobedience, it has changed the world.
Dude, considering that (I'm pretty sure) aerial lives in FL, I'd think even AZ would be safer!
Because our country is a big part of the reason why they can't feed their families. Because we can, because we're the richest nation in the world and we became the richest nation in the world by fucking over other countries like Mexico. Most importantly, because they're already here and we shouldn't turn our backs on our fellow human beings.
Only a truly evil person would want to deny medical care to a sick child, especially when their parents are willing to pay for it.
Dude - They're immigrants, they're not from Pluto! And, what's this? You the defender of the Natives now? :roll: I called them Indians because that is an appropriate term for me to call them. I lived in what Native Americans and others in the Southwest call "Indian Country" and all my friends refer to themselves as Indians. When I was growing up there, no one used the term Native American and it seems unnatural to me to use it now. When I do call them Native Americans (though the more popular term these days is American Indian), it's only so as not to be confused with someone like you who would call them Indians out of disrespect.
We are not already burden, as you put it, countries in Africa are burdened and by comparison we got it pretty good.
Things here are not as good as they use to be but you know what, I still have a pretty good standard of living, even if I am shouldering the burden for a few others
I heard this quote attributed to David Letterman today: "They say there are about 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. But if you ask a Native American, that number is more like 300 million."
Anyway, great post! Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us so we can better understand the reality of the citizenship process. We all talk so much about it but none of us has ever personally experienced it.
I have friends who are also in this process and they've told me the cost is really prohibitive. Did you have to hire an immigration lawyer? Also, I think it's noteworthy that you've gone through this whole ordeal and that's with being married to a US citizen! I know it's a lot harder if you're not married. My best friend actually had to marry her boyfriend just so he could be legal to get a job so he could help with the rent. And that only enables him to be here legally; he probably won't be able to afford citizenship. (Interesting how you have to buy citizenship, isn't it?)
It's amazing to me that the process (which so many people act like is so easy) is so designed to set you up for failure. You really can't help but break some of the rules sometimes. For instance, as you said, you've broken a rule if you go home to see your mom before she dies. Do they really expect anyone to follow that rule under those kinds of circumstances?? Who wouldn't break that rule? And we all know that most of the people who came here because they are living in a state of poverty we can't even imagine will never be able to afford to buy citizenship or legal residency. So what do we expect? Of course they'll just be here illegally. I'd like to know who among us wouldn't do the exact same thing if in the exact same situation. (But I guess that whole "Never judge a person until you've walked a mile in his shoes" adage was abandoned long ago.) That's a great analogy about the sick child and the pharmacy. I wish people would actually answer the question of what they would do. But instead they'll just say it's not relevant, though we all know that in many circumstances it really is. (And anyone who doesn't know this should make more of an effort to walk a mile in others' shoes.)
I have to point out, though, that although many of the English settlers did come here for a better life, the intention of the Europeans who came here initially was to exploit this land and its people. And that's just what they've done.
Anyway, thanks again for the thoughtful and elucidating post. :thumbup:
I do. and I would agree with you that the process needs to be made easier and less expensive for people.
My 1st cousin married a guy from Brazil and he had to jump through hoops as well. I think it took him about 5 years before he finnally got his citizenship. In his own words he told me it was worth it though bcos ther is no way he could even dream of having the life he has now if he were still in Brazil.
That's great that your cousin's husband had the resources to be able to do that.