IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET
1 - A JOB,
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
4 - WELFARE,
5 - FOOD STAMPS,
6 - CREDIT CARDS,
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
8 - FREE EDUCATION,
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION.
Got this emailed to me this am from a friend. She and I have never talked politics, 35 years, my better half of the Buzz twins. It shocks me how this is hitting everyone, one side or the other. Its time something is done.
Its a complicated situation, we would love to have open arms, it's what our country is based on but we are in trouble. We are over taxed and under represented. Some of us think its even too late(me) but something must be done to stop this. We can not (sheer numbers tell us this) sustain illegal immigrants any longer. So Mr. President "What do you say... Calling out"
stop the free hand outs, what is your plan?
...
Explain...
Is the point of the E-Mail one that says we should be more like North Korea, Iran, China, Venezuela, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia?
And as a fact check:
1 - A JOB, No true. You are NOT given a job. An American business man hires you for sub-standard wages so he does not have to pay taxes on you, provide a safe workplace, hold any liability for any injuries or illnesses you contract while on hie time... so he can have more money for himself.
2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE, False. You do not get a drivers license. You can buy a forged drivers license, more than likely, from an American Citizen who uses illegal immigrants to solicit business from othere illegal immigrants.
3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, False. See above.
4 - WELFARE, False. Maybe Food Stamps on the black market or you can try your luck with forged documents, but you can't just get Welfare by asking for it. Prove me wrong by trying to get on Welfare yourself.
5 - FOOD STAMPS, See above.
6 - CREDIT CARDS, Who's to blame for that? Shuodln't the institutions handing OUT the credit cards have some responsibility? I mean, they are the ones who will lose in this proposition.
7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, Explanation or Proof need fror this. I'm calling bullshit on this one.
8 - FREE EDUCATION, Again, who's fault is this. I thought you had to register your kids in schools.
9 - FREE HEALTH CARE, I have heard the stories... go in for care... don't pay the bills. Maybe our current Health Care system needs some REFORM???
10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON Who?
11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE And the language of naturalized American Citizens.
12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT - Because this is STILL America and we do not force people to wave our flag.
There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.
I've searched but found nothing about a white supremacist group donating 1 million dollars to this bill. What is your source?
96 Randall's Island II
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06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
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10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
But Canada is so innocent?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
When you travel abroad and then return why aren't you allow to reenter the country with simply your drivers license?
Do you not understand that if a police officer feels he needs proof of your citizenship he will need more then your driver licenses. Federal Government describes these as - a Birth certificate, pass port, etc..etc.. not a drivers license.
A conservative talk show that I was listening to on tuesday said that if your in a car with more then 6 brown people in it, then that should be seen as suspicious, and should be reason enough to question these people. That is what the right is promoting. I do not have anything against the Feds deporting people, but I do have a problem with this bill and I think I have laid out plenty of facts to support my position and to support the racism in this bill.
You are right, I am required to show a passport. What is wrong with that? Also, I was able to do it from costa rica a few years back, that is enter the US with just a driver's license.
What you see as racism I see as something different. But we just have to agree to disagree. If there is racism and racial profiling in this law, than it will be struck down by the supreme court of either Arizona or the United States. Simple as that. if it isn't, than people need to shut up about the racism, because at that point a bunch of the brightest legal minds in the country will have reviewed it and weighed it against the constitution(s) and given it the go ahead. Seems simple to me, and at the very least this law povokes the US government into doing something because the status quo isn't working.
you might find this interesting for what it's worth
Kind of a interesting video if anyone has the whole hearing I would love to see it all.
Everyone is required to show there passport when entering the country - "EVERYONE", is the key.
that's when entering the country, now in the case of AZ i would be required to show that type of proof because now police officers are targeting people who they believe might be illegal immigrants..... Police officers have not received any type of specific training on how to target illegal immigrants... They would have to use there judgment...... The Governor of AZ state that they will begin to receive training.... costing more money, when in the end they still cannot deport anyone!!! They still need to turn them into the Feds....where is your common sense?
The fact that the bill was created by people associated with white supremacists groups means nothing, right? The fact that this bill received 1 million dollars from white supremacist groups means nothing, right??
The fact that 53% of the people who voted for this bill believe this bill will violate civil rights issues means nothing, right???
I'm done with you, like you are done with me... I have laid out the facts...this is a waste of money and was generated by hate, yet it still doesn't solve anything....just divides people.... but if you rather the bill be shut down by the courts then, lets just continue to look beyond the truth..... HATE
The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...
It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I think I found what you were reffering too and despite the clear bias he writes with I think it is interesting. I don't think anyone in politics is "clean". And I really don't think this law is in place to keep minorities from voting. I think if any of the "charges" were true they would be investigated by the current administration. I don't understand the idea that Karl Rove is somehow this puppet master.
Quite frankly, I thought the article was written with way too much personal slant. He seems to come from the Michael Moore school of journalism. It clouds the charges in the article in my opinion. Look, there are ways to get your birth certificate. We have a staff dedicated at HCMC to preparing and handing out birth certificates. Ignorance is no excuse in not having one. Being poor isn't an excuse. You can still get your birth certificate.
But I will say, that if republicans are guilty of voter fraud so are democrats. Interesting that he only thinks republicans are guilty of it.
Too much conspiracy not enough proof as far as I am concerned. But it was definitely a good opinion piece.
how about you polaris?
well ... first off - i'm generally non-partisan ... i don't believe much in democrats however, i'm convinced the 2 terms bush was in office were as the result of voter fraud ... having said that - it would not surprise me if democrats did this too although, the issue is (and it ties in with this topic) is that it is much easier to restrict voter registrations with immigrants and the poor - two groups that for the most part vote democrat ...
i don't know much about this palast guy - he could be hiding a lot ... i'm not too sure ... what i do know about this piece of legislation is that it most definitely has racial undertones ... obviously, it won't be spelt out in black and white that some people want to see but it's there and it will play itself out ...
america is not only very deeply divided but it's frustrated with many things and i think it's easy to use illegal aliens as a scapegoat for all the ills when in fact it's the old white guys in suits that have been the problem for a long time ... (republican and democrat) ...
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...
It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.
A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
so that makes it ok ? your tit for tat comment is weak.
I think I found what you were reffering too and despite the clear bias he writes with I think it is interesting. I don't think anyone in politics is "clean". And I really don't think this law is in place to keep minorities from voting. I think if any of the "charges" were true they would be investigated by the current administration. I don't understand the idea that Karl Rove is somehow this puppet master.
Quite frankly, I thought the article was written with way too much personal slant. He seems to come from the Michael Moore school of journalism. It clouds the charges in the article in my opinion. Look, there are ways to get your birth certificate. We have a staff dedicated at HCMC to preparing and handing out birth certificates. Ignorance is no excuse in not having one. Being poor isn't an excuse. You can still get your birth certificate.
But I will say, that if republicans are guilty of voter fraud so are democrats. Interesting that he only thinks republicans are guilty of it.
Too much conspiracy not enough proof as far as I am concerned. But it was definitely a good opinion piece.
how about you polaris?
Greg Palast is an American journalist working for the BBC. He has published a book, Best Democracy Money Can Buy, which covers the voter registration stuff that occurred in 2000 and 2004. He has also covered the David Iglesias firing that was part of the US attorney firings a few years back. He is a well researched journalist and doesn't make claims he can't back up. I tend to believe what he writes.
The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.
yeah... especially the kids who were brought over by their parents. i work in foster care and i know plenty of them. Those little fuckers. I HATE THEM!
It's their fault I (would have to) make sure I had all sorts of paperwork with me if I were to visit my cousin in Glendale and go to the Splash Park at the AWESOME park in Peoria....
Since the first time I went to Phoenix (back in 1995 when PJ canceled their Phoenix show!!!) I found it to be a bit of a fascist state. I was like 24 and we were leaving a club in Tempe. As we walked out there were Maricopa County Sherrifs with their billy clubs out... and they were following people to their cars. It was the freakiest thing I have ever experienced...
FUCK ARIZONA AND THEIR FASCIST, RACIST BULLSHIT.... Glad my cousin moved back to NEW YORK!
There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.
...
In those 11 states... they still have to apply for the licenses, right? And if they do... they are pegged as undocumented aliens, right? That is NOT 'Giving them a License'.
The author of the E-Mail was making it look like America's answer to Illegal Immigration is in the means and methods of North Korea and Iran. If we were more like North Korea and Iran, we wouldn't have this problem, right? E-Mail Spam used to support an arguement in rational a debate usually backfires because truth is typically not a factor (refer to the Nigerian Prince E-Mail spam). I am not FOR or AGAINST anything you posted... I am just debunking the lies/half-truths and misinformation in your E-Mail example. Arm yourself with Truth or Fact... and no one can argue with you.
...
Now... is immigration reform needed? Yes, I believe it is.
Is the Arizona legislation the way to enact it? No, i believe it does not.
Reform must come at the Federal level and must engage both sides of the border.
...
Also... the thing about the two flags... where did you hear that, FOX News or a Tea Party rally? Because, with all due respect, that is fucking ridiculous.
...
Finally... many of the illegals aren't here to 'Become An American Citizen'. They are here because they can make money to send home. They are here because American business owners hire them. They are just fine, remaining a Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Canadian, Irish, English, Austrailian citizen and just want to make money.
Think about those Americans that are working in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right now. They do not want to become Iraqi or Saudi citizens, right? They just want to make money to send home.
If we had a better work/labor exchange with Mexico... that allows them to come here... and allows employers to hire them for sub-standard wages... would that help?
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Hail, Hail!!!
....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you?
...
Wait... THAT'S IT??? That's all the problem is??? The entire Immigration thing is because they are here Illegally, right? Paperwork makes them legal... paperwork solves the problem.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
There are states 11 I believe where illegal immigrants can get a DL. And of course like you say, the black market accounts for much in the states that don't, also for SS cards. A friend lost his wife and child to an illegal immigrant driving on the road. He had no insurance of course because no license and was arrested. But bonded out and left the country. There are so many stories like this. I wonder how your heart would feel if that were your wife and child. There is no justice for my friend.
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.
...
In those 11 states... they still have to apply for the licenses, right? And if they do... they are pegged as undocumented aliens, right? That is NOT 'Giving them a License'.
The author of the E-Mail was making it look like America's answer to Illegal Immigration is in the means and methods of North Korea and Iran. If we were more like North Korea and Iran, we wouldn't have this problem, right? E-Mail Spam used to support an arguement in rational a debate usually backfires because truth is typically not a factor (refer to the Nigerian Prince E-Mail spam). I am not FOR or AGAINST anything you posted... I am just debunking the lies/half-truths and misinformation in your E-Mail example. Arm yourself with Truth or Fact... and no one can argue with you.
...
Now... is immigration reform needed? Yes, I believe it is.
Is the Arizona legislation the way to enact it? No, i believe it does not.
Reform must come at the Federal level and must engage both sides of the border.
...
Also... the thing about the two flags... where did you hear that, FOX News or a Tea Party rally? Because, with all due respect, that is fucking ridiculous.
...
Finally... many of the illegals aren't here to 'Become An American Citizen'. They are here because they can make money to send home. They are here because American business owners hire them. They are just fine, remaining a Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Canadian, Irish, English, Austrailian citizen and just want to make money.
Think about those Americans that are working in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right now. They do not want to become Iraqi or Saudi citizens, right? They just want to make money to send home.
If we had a better work/labor exchange with Mexico... that allows them to come here... and allows employers to hire them for sub-standard wages... would that help?
I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.
I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.
...
I'm not arguing with you... I am debunking the falicies of the E-Mail example. and the point of debate is NOT to 'Win' or change anyone's minds... it is to reveal truths and dismiss bogus information. Bring truths and facts to me... that's all I'm looking for.
I don't know what the author's intent was... but, they set the basis of their point by stating that other countries handle their borders differently than we do... and they don't have an Illegal Immigrant problem. The author FAILS to point out that in some of those countries he/she listed, people are trying to cross the border, OUT of those places.
And YES... it may be true that you face Labor Camp by illegally crossing into North Korea. So, what's the point? That North Korea's border policy works? So... then what? Should we adopt that policy as our own because it works? What is the point that's trying to be made? Closed Societies don't have immigration problems like open societies do? That is what I don't understand... what is the point?
America's 'Open Arms' policy is what defines America... or should be what defines America.
...
And tell you son that the $100.00 is being withheld for the the year. When he files his 2010 Tax Return, he will find out how much Income Tax he actually pays.
Of that amount, 60% going towards Social Security, Medical and Defense Spending.*: http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/how ... pent-0705/
*Note: This show the 2008 totals.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't hear about the flag thing anywhere, its how I feel, I made it up :oops: . You may think it ridiculous maybe but as I said its how I feel and we'll see in 30 years, well I'll be dead and gone so you see.
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.
...
I'm not arguing with you... I am debunking the falicies of the E-Mail example. and the point of debate is NOT to 'Win' or change anyone's minds... it is to reveal truths and dismiss bogus information. Bring truths and facts to me... that's all I'm looking for.
I don't know what the author's intent was... but, they set the basis of their point by stating that other countries handle their borders differently than we do... and they don't have an Illegal Immigrant problem. The author FAILS to point out that in some of those countries he/she listed, people are trying to cross the border, OUT of those places.
And YES... it may be true that you face Labor Camp by illegally crossing into North Korea. So, what's the point? That North Korea's border policy works? So... then what? Should we adopt that policy as our own because it works? What is the point that's trying to be made? Closed Societies don't have immigration problems like open societies do? That is what I don't understand... what is the point?
America's 'Open Arms' policy is what defines America... or should be what defines America.
...
And tell you son that the $100.00 is being withheld for the the year. When he files his 2010 Tax Return, he will find out how much Income Tax he actually pays.
Of that amount, 60% going towards Social Security, Medical and Defense Spending.*: http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/how ... pent-0705/
*Note: This show the 2008 totals.
Yes we know about the filing, he has been getting small returns for many years but he is over taxed.We all are. I will tell him of the link. He is as thirsty for knowledge as you are. Me I'm just thirsty and would rather listen to PJ and think happy thoughts
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Police State Pete We shall see in the years ahead how this plays out.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yes we know about the filing, he has been getting small returns for many years but he is over taxed.We all are. I will tell him of the link. He is as thirsty for knowledge as you are. Me I'm just thirsty and would rather listen to PJ and think happy thoughts
...
A small return is a good thing. It means, he is not having too much withheld from his paycheck during the year. What you don't want is a big tax refund because it means Uncle Sam held that money during the year, not you.
And if he is hungry for truth... tell him to always go to the source of something. Don't form opinions on 'analysis' of State Of The Union Addresses by telivision nimrods... go straight to the source and read the speech himself and form his own opinions, rather that merely accepting the opinions of others. That is an independent... and individual.
...
and tell him to use the television for entertainment and the radio for traffic reports. That's all they are good for.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't believe in absolute's, so I think every situation and circumstance is different. So I don't simply think saying something like I don't like all entitlement programs or they are all unsustainable (that part just comes down to management or mis-management). Also, the entire notion that people can provide or not need government intervention in some area's of life, whether for laws, oversight or even assistance programs is simply not practical in any manner. If you want to see what happens to the economy when you don't have oversight, policy and allow the market to work by its own methods (invisible hand), simply look at the most recent economic disaster because that is exactly what caused it.
In terms of immigration, there are very few legitimate reasons for anyone to become a citizen if you are in this scenario. And in terms of America, our policies regarding this issue (working, papers, fees, security, etc) are for the most part done so in retractile ways so that it doesn't give reasons to want to be citizens or become part of our system or legit citizens. And conversely, as American citizens and people making policy, we need to recognize the realities and practicalities of this issue and situation. Whether we want it or not, it's in front of us to deal with. To simply close the border will have terrible results on our economy. To simply target business's who use or work with these people in order to use fines, etc, will only result in bad economic results. My main point is simply there is not a simplistic answer to this issue as we have to take all areas and groups into account.
In terms of cheap labor and exploitation, I am very familiar with the ways of globalization, so if you'd like to attempt to bring up this issue, be my guest. The very notion that "a rising tide lifts all boats", which all globalization is on a large scale has been a failure in terms of social and economic balance... and no not in a socialist manner, but simply that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The facts repeat this time and time again. Whether it's in relation to the IMF, WB, G-8, G-20, WTO or agreements like NAFTA or CAFTA. The proof is all there in fact.
Lastly and in terms of entitlement, people in our society expect things like rights, benefits or even things which are not definitive such as a national language. The vast majority in our nation do not vote, participate or even pay attention to social and government affairs, yet expect results and policies shifted in their favor and don't want to hear the reality check when they see what's really going on in the world abroad or at home. And instead of diagnosing the problems and tracing it back to its proper place, instead they scapegoat... in this instance - illegals are stealing our public funds through various methods and taking jobs. Really, is that how this began? It's nothing more than misguided anger, fueled by entitlement to get what you feel is yours. And the national language is a perfect example. We do not have a national language... people argue it's english because it has always been spoken and more people have been here that speak it... but it's not official. So when people don't speak english, it annoys them - people have to be accommodated if you get my drift. And people get mad that some don't learn english.. makes them very angry and entitled. But if you want to hear the honest truth, if you only speak english now, and at some point in the near future, we have more citizens here who speak spanish, would you learn it or even be for it to become the national language? Of course people wouldn't and it shows their selfishness and entitlement, which is based on nothing more than the idea that they were born here and owed or due something for it. You're not - get over it - life is about flexibility so deal with it.
I haven't said one word about how much we "need" them. If a business wants to hire them, go right ahead. I have already laid out what I think should happen as far as immigraton goes. I am all for migrant worker programs and letting anyone who wants to come here to try and get a job. Just come through the front door. I went into greater detail in some other posts so I am not going to repeat myself, but tell me, what about the numbers I showed you seems sustainable? What would unemployment look like if 340,000,000 more people were allowed to come on in. I can tell you that there would be a lot more people standing in line for gov't cheese.
And you are right, I feel that all entitlement programs are unsustainable. Look at social security. It is spending itself dry. I think sustainability is a great point when talking about politics, I think it needs to be brought up more. You cannot just say that something being unsustainable should not be allowed in discussion. Being able to pay for things as a country, and being able to continue programs and fund them properly is a HUGE issue. An sorry if you think I am focusing simply on the people, they are the ones who are breaking the law. Not me. If I have to pay a higher price for an orange to be able to have a border that is secure and safe for all those involved in, than by all means, gouge me.
So I listed benefits of coming here legally, Can you list the benefits to the American people and to the immigrants when they are allowed to come here illegally? And before you talk about cheap labor and blah blah blah, answer me this, how many times in your life and on this board have you talked about the US and exploitation?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
one world ?
one people ?
your thoughts are very nice, try taking your ideas to another country and see how far it gets you
We take the one world idea to other countries all the time! And it's gotten us far. We're all in support of one world, globalization, etc. when it serves our interests and allows us to exploit others. It's fucking hypocritcal to try to act like this is a bad idea only when it doesn't benefit us.
wake up sunshine it will NEVER HAPPEN there is way too much power in the hands of way too many people !
dream on.
The right to medical care being a core value is a separate discussion.
But can you list some legitimate reasons why anyone would and should go through the immigration process which benefits them in the long term? Not a very difficult question, but when you ask it, you slowly realize it's not a practical, inclusive or beneficial resolve to this problem. Just put yourself in the shoes of one of these people and you clearly understand why this issue is really not black and white.
No, access to medical care is not a right. It isn't. It isn't in our bill of rights, it isn't anywhere. It might be something that would be good for everyone, but it isn't a right.
On topic, no one is saying don't come here... they are saying come here legally please
What you get from following the law, immunity to things like this law in Arizona for one. You get the right to vote, you get the right to work without fear of immigration coming and knocking at your door. Basically you get to be here and get afforded all the rights all of us get. Seems simple enough.
That is really a disturbing question that you asked, as if it is justified in breaking the laws of this country because they aren't the easy way of doing things. If you respect the laws, the country will respect you and give you all the rights and privileges everyone here thinks they deserve. does it take awhile, yes, but do you honestly think that you and I would have the same quality of life that we have now if we just opened our borders to everyone?
Let's forget about the people who hate us, but solely focus on those who just want to come here to better their life. If it was free and easy to come here, how many people in the world would come? I a conservative estimate is 5%. That is 5% of the 6.8 billion people in the world, that is 340,000,000 more people in the country. Do you honestly think we can sustain that? The same people who are complaining because the government isn't creating more jobs are the same ones wanting the god damn borders to be open and free. When you look at it that way it seems pretty simple to me.
and another thing, we, unlike most EU countries that so many want to emmulate, still have birth right citizenship for christ's sake. It is unsustainable.
Uh... no you don't get immunity from the AZ law. The Arizona law didn't change the federal law in terms of not being allowed to be here illegally; it changed the fact that you can now be harassed even if you are here legally. It's primarily about how to identify people who are here illegally, not what to do with them once they are identified.
what would make you happy ? how can this law be changed to make you happy and be fair for both
sides of this debate, I would really like to read this.
Godfather.
Just an FYI- a drivers license isn't valid proof of citizenship - If it really comes down to it, a person would have to show there birth certificate, a pass port, or other federal approved documents. If I am out for a jog I will have to carry these items, because I could be profiled and then detained.
Just an fyi- this is the most misleading and wrong thing that the lefties keep talking about. No one is going to stop someone on a jog and ask for identification. They are going to ask for ID when they stop you for another CRIME or TRAFFIC violation, which they do every day!!! So unless you are Punch Jogging you should be fine
Please show me where in the AZ law it says you will only be asked for your papers if you are committing a crime.
When you travel abroad and then return why aren't you allow to reenter the country with simply your drivers license?
Do you not understand that if a police officer feels he needs proof of your citizenship he will need more then your driver licenses. Federal Government describes these as - a Birth certificate, pass port, etc..etc.. not a drivers license.
A conservative talk show that I was listening to on tuesday said that if your in a car with more then 6 brown people in it, then that should be seen as suspicious, and should be reason enough to question these people. That is what the right is promoting. I do not have anything against the Feds deporting people, but I do have a problem with this bill and I think I have laid out plenty of facts to support my position and to support the racism in this bill.
You are right, I am required to show a passport. What is wrong with that? Also, I was able to do it from costa rica a few years back, that is enter the US with just a driver's license.
What you see as racism I see as something different. But we just have to agree to disagree. If there is racism and racial profiling in this law, than it will be struck down by the supreme court of either Arizona or the United States. Simple as that. if it isn't, than people need to shut up about the racism, because at that point a bunch of the brightest legal minds in the country will have reviewed it and weighed it against the constitution(s) and given it the go ahead. Seems simple to me, and at the very least this law povokes the US government into doing something because the status quo isn't working.
you might find this interesting for what it's worth
Kind of a interesting video if anyone has the whole hearing I would love to see it all.
Please remember this the next time you are complaining about all the other laws - like healthcare reform - that the Supreme Court has not stuck down. Follow the fucking law and shut the hell up.... right?
The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.
Even if that were true, would that make it right? Do you think because some people have drugs in their house that your house should be able to be searched at any point without probably cause?
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...
It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.
I'm pretty sure, since the law was passed in American, this conversation is about America.
The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.
A lot of immigrants that are illegal here come in legal ways.....
Like a travel or student visa however instead of going back they stay
So they did show a passport to get in and they are still "illegal" a lot of people from African and Muslim countries do this run for the hills
In terms of immigration, there are very few legitimate reasons for anyone to become a citizen if you are in this scenario. And in terms of America, our policies regarding this issue (working, papers, fees, security, etc) are for the most part done so in retractile ways so that it doesn't give reasons to want to be citizens or become part of our system or legit citizens. And conversely, as American citizens and people making policy, we need to recognize the realities and practicalities of this issue and situation. Whether we want it or not, it's in front of us to deal with. To simply close the border will have terrible results on our economy. To simply target business's who use or work with these people in order to use fines, etc, will only result in bad economic results. My main point is simply there is not a simplistic answer to this issue as we have to take all areas and groups into account.
]
And let's not forget all the immigrants who want to become citizens or at least legal residents but are not allowed or can't afford to. They account for most the undocumented people I know.
Qustion.
What makes an Illegal Immigrant... 'Illegal'?
Is it the method they used to cross the border? Is it because they don't have the proper paperwork? Is it because they don't speak English? Is it because they don't expect minimum wages? What?
Someone... please, explain.
...
And if they were to become 'Legal'... would people finally shut the fuck up about them already?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
Food stamps and all the other related type benefits are available if 2 illegals conceive a child here, which I think we realize many many do. I way to stay.
But I think you get where the author of the email was going with this. Our country is indeed taking very good care of the illegals, if we weren't they wouldn't stay and keep coming. I think everyone can agree on that. I also think everyone can agree that our country can not continue to do this, there must be end somewhere.
As far as our flag, honestly it will be soon, that there will be 2 flags waving, just like there is a second language now in the US, and are we really ready for that?
Is it so much to ask that people who want to be apart of America be American. That they learn our history speak our language and wave our flag legally.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
i am truly sorry for your friends loss but now put yourself in the shoe of all the innocent people americans have killed in their wars around the world in the name of prosperity ... again - there are people to blame - you are just looking at the easiest ...
But Canada is so innocent?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
The way I see it you should be mad at the illegal immigrants ....If they would have shown their passport when they came into the USA you wouldn’t have to worry about being asked for yours, now would you? The Illegal Immigrants are the ones that ruined it for our American citizens of Hispanic decent....so quit with your hatred for your fellow Americans and put the blame where it belongs.....That would be the ones that broke the law...not the law abiding citizens of America.
what the cuss does that have anything to do with it? ... feel free to list all of canada's transgressions and i would probably agree with most of them ... i'm not so wrapped up in some nationalistic pride that i can't see right from wrong ...
It was so easy for you to point out that America has transgressions.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
well ... first off - i'm generally non-partisan ... i don't believe much in democrats however, i'm convinced the 2 terms bush was in office were as the result of voter fraud ... having said that - it would not surprise me if democrats did this too although, the issue is (and it ties in with this topic) is that it is much easier to restrict voter registrations with immigrants and the poor - two groups that for the most part vote democrat ...
i don't know much about this palast guy - he could be hiding a lot ... i'm not too sure ... what i do know about this piece of legislation is that it most definitely has racial undertones ... obviously, it won't be spelt out in black and white that some people want to see but it's there and it will play itself out ...
america is not only very deeply divided but it's frustrated with many things and i think it's easy to use illegal aliens as a scapegoat for all the ills when in fact it's the old white guys in suits that have been the problem for a long time ... (republican and democrat) ...
uhhh ... i still don't see your point ...
so that makes it ok ? your tit for tat comment is weak.
Godfather.
Greg Palast is an American journalist working for the BBC. He has published a book, Best Democracy Money Can Buy, which covers the voter registration stuff that occurred in 2000 and 2004. He has also covered the David Iglesias firing that was part of the US attorney firings a few years back. He is a well researched journalist and doesn't make claims he can't back up. I tend to believe what he writes.
yeah... especially the kids who were brought over by their parents. i work in foster care and i know plenty of them. Those little fuckers. I HATE THEM!
It's their fault I (would have to) make sure I had all sorts of paperwork with me if I were to visit my cousin in Glendale and go to the Splash Park at the AWESOME park in Peoria....
Since the first time I went to Phoenix (back in 1995 when PJ canceled their Phoenix show!!!) I found it to be a bit of a fascist state. I was like 24 and we were leaving a club in Tempe. As we walked out there were Maricopa County Sherrifs with their billy clubs out... and they were following people to their cars. It was the freakiest thing I have ever experienced...
FUCK ARIZONA AND THEIR FASCIST, RACIST BULLSHIT.... Glad my cousin moved back to NEW YORK!
In those 11 states... they still have to apply for the licenses, right? And if they do... they are pegged as undocumented aliens, right? That is NOT 'Giving them a License'.
The author of the E-Mail was making it look like America's answer to Illegal Immigration is in the means and methods of North Korea and Iran. If we were more like North Korea and Iran, we wouldn't have this problem, right? E-Mail Spam used to support an arguement in rational a debate usually backfires because truth is typically not a factor (refer to the Nigerian Prince E-Mail spam). I am not FOR or AGAINST anything you posted... I am just debunking the lies/half-truths and misinformation in your E-Mail example. Arm yourself with Truth or Fact... and no one can argue with you.
...
Now... is immigration reform needed? Yes, I believe it is.
Is the Arizona legislation the way to enact it? No, i believe it does not.
Reform must come at the Federal level and must engage both sides of the border.
...
Also... the thing about the two flags... where did you hear that, FOX News or a Tea Party rally? Because, with all due respect, that is fucking ridiculous.
...
Finally... many of the illegals aren't here to 'Become An American Citizen'. They are here because they can make money to send home. They are here because American business owners hire them. They are just fine, remaining a Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadorian, Canadian, Irish, English, Austrailian citizen and just want to make money.
Think about those Americans that are working in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right now. They do not want to become Iraqi or Saudi citizens, right? They just want to make money to send home.
If we had a better work/labor exchange with Mexico... that allows them to come here... and allows employers to hire them for sub-standard wages... would that help?
Hail, Hail!!!
Wait... THAT'S IT??? That's all the problem is??? The entire Immigration thing is because they are here Illegally, right? Paperwork makes them legal... paperwork solves the problem.
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't get that from the email. That the proper answer to our border problems was to behave like those countries.
I think the author was making the point that our open arms policy and give give give is what is ridiculous.
I mean really they are breaking the law and we allow them to live, work, drive, use our social systems etc. I think the author wants something done on the federal level so americans don't feel they are being taken advantage of.
My son has $100+ a week taken out of his gross pay that does not include the SS or Med just federal tax. And its going up. He wants to know for what.
It would be a start to just have the Feds toughen up some or do something and hopefully it won't be to take away the right of this Governor to do as she sees fit in her own state. That's up to the people of her state, they elected her and if they don't agree with what she does then they will vote so.
But the thing with debate again, is you can't change my mind I can't change yours. It's such a fruitless endeavor. I'm not sure why you guys like it so much. It seems like arguing to me. Life is too short for that.
This email I wanted to share, I think the author had a valid point and of course I knew some wouldn't agree. Actually I knew some wouldn't even try to understand.
I'm not arguing with you... I am debunking the falicies of the E-Mail example. and the point of debate is NOT to 'Win' or change anyone's minds... it is to reveal truths and dismiss bogus information. Bring truths and facts to me... that's all I'm looking for.
I don't know what the author's intent was... but, they set the basis of their point by stating that other countries handle their borders differently than we do... and they don't have an Illegal Immigrant problem. The author FAILS to point out that in some of those countries he/she listed, people are trying to cross the border, OUT of those places.
And YES... it may be true that you face Labor Camp by illegally crossing into North Korea. So, what's the point? That North Korea's border policy works? So... then what? Should we adopt that policy as our own because it works? What is the point that's trying to be made? Closed Societies don't have immigration problems like open societies do? That is what I don't understand... what is the point?
America's 'Open Arms' policy is what defines America... or should be what defines America.
...
And tell you son that the $100.00 is being withheld for the the year. When he files his 2010 Tax Return, he will find out how much Income Tax he actually pays.
Of that amount, 60% going towards Social Security, Medical and Defense Spending.*:
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/how ... pent-0705/
*Note: This show the 2008 totals.
Hail, Hail!!!
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
A small return is a good thing. It means, he is not having too much withheld from his paycheck during the year. What you don't want is a big tax refund because it means Uncle Sam held that money during the year, not you.
And if he is hungry for truth... tell him to always go to the source of something. Don't form opinions on 'analysis' of State Of The Union Addresses by telivision nimrods... go straight to the source and read the speech himself and form his own opinions, rather that merely accepting the opinions of others. That is an independent... and individual.
...
and tell him to use the television for entertainment and the radio for traffic reports. That's all they are good for.
Hail, Hail!!!
In terms of immigration, there are very few legitimate reasons for anyone to become a citizen if you are in this scenario. And in terms of America, our policies regarding this issue (working, papers, fees, security, etc) are for the most part done so in retractile ways so that it doesn't give reasons to want to be citizens or become part of our system or legit citizens. And conversely, as American citizens and people making policy, we need to recognize the realities and practicalities of this issue and situation. Whether we want it or not, it's in front of us to deal with. To simply close the border will have terrible results on our economy. To simply target business's who use or work with these people in order to use fines, etc, will only result in bad economic results. My main point is simply there is not a simplistic answer to this issue as we have to take all areas and groups into account.
In terms of cheap labor and exploitation, I am very familiar with the ways of globalization, so if you'd like to attempt to bring up this issue, be my guest. The very notion that "a rising tide lifts all boats", which all globalization is on a large scale has been a failure in terms of social and economic balance... and no not in a socialist manner, but simply that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The facts repeat this time and time again. Whether it's in relation to the IMF, WB, G-8, G-20, WTO or agreements like NAFTA or CAFTA. The proof is all there in fact.
Lastly and in terms of entitlement, people in our society expect things like rights, benefits or even things which are not definitive such as a national language. The vast majority in our nation do not vote, participate or even pay attention to social and government affairs, yet expect results and policies shifted in their favor and don't want to hear the reality check when they see what's really going on in the world abroad or at home. And instead of diagnosing the problems and tracing it back to its proper place, instead they scapegoat... in this instance - illegals are stealing our public funds through various methods and taking jobs. Really, is that how this began? It's nothing more than misguided anger, fueled by entitlement to get what you feel is yours. And the national language is a perfect example. We do not have a national language... people argue it's english because it has always been spoken and more people have been here that speak it... but it's not official. So when people don't speak english, it annoys them - people have to be accommodated if you get my drift. And people get mad that some don't learn english.. makes them very angry and entitled. But if you want to hear the honest truth, if you only speak english now, and at some point in the near future, we have more citizens here who speak spanish, would you learn it or even be for it to become the national language? Of course people wouldn't and it shows their selfishness and entitlement, which is based on nothing more than the idea that they were born here and owed or due something for it. You're not - get over it - life is about flexibility so deal with it.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Uh... no you don't get immunity from the AZ law. The Arizona law didn't change the federal law in terms of not being allowed to be here illegally; it changed the fact that you can now be harassed even if you are here legally. It's primarily about how to identify people who are here illegally, not what to do with them once they are identified.
Please show me where in the AZ law it says you will only be asked for your papers if you are committing a crime.
Please remember this the next time you are complaining about all the other laws - like healthcare reform - that the Supreme Court has not stuck down. Follow the fucking law and shut the hell up.... right?
Even if that were true, would that make it right? Do you think because some people have drugs in their house that your house should be able to be searched at any point without probably cause?
I'm pretty sure, since the law was passed in American, this conversation is about America.
A lot of immigrants that are illegal here come in legal ways.....
Like a travel or student visa however instead of going back they stay
So they did show a passport to get in and they are still "illegal" a lot of people from African and Muslim countries do this
And let's not forget all the immigrants who want to become citizens or at least legal residents but are not allowed or can't afford to. They account for most the undocumented people I know.
What makes an Illegal Immigrant... 'Illegal'?
Is it the method they used to cross the border? Is it because they don't have the proper paperwork? Is it because they don't speak English? Is it because they don't expect minimum wages? What?
Someone... please, explain.
...
And if they were to become 'Legal'... would people finally shut the fuck up about them already?
Hail, Hail!!!