It is my understanding that the new rule is being imposed because the set of rules for entering the U.S. is being disregarded by a large number of people.
When I enter country I abide by the rules and carry a passport with me at all times. When I'm in the U.S. I carry identification with me at all times unless I'm swimming. It sucks that Arizona is doing this but there are a good number of people that didn't follow the rules for entering the U.S. and unfortunately it is going to affect some law abiding citizens and legal immigrants along the way.
As for racial profiling, I don't think the cops need this law anyway to add to their repertoire. That is what Click-It or Ticket is for.
unfortunately it is going to affect some law abiding citizens and legal immigrants along the way
I was born in the US and have lived here my whole life, am I suppose to now accept this change, based on my skin color? Oh well, I have to accept the fact that I am different. F@*! that America is better then that! At least its principles and Ideology is!
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
i've read all of his posts and i have not gotten that impression. are you the america police and telling people who can stay and who must go? as if its that easy....very mature argument there....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
i've read all of his posts and i have not gotten that impression. are you the america police and telling people who can stay and who must go? as if its that easy....very mature argument there....
didn't say he had to go, just said if he doesn't like it here, he can freely leave. That is not childish in anyway. I certainly have gotten that impression, he has talked about how america exploits brown skinned people throughout the world for the progress and wealth of the white Americans, he has talked about how racist the cops generally are and how racist a country we are. Also he has talked about the "crimes" the us has committed around the world. Certainly seems like he does not like the US at all.
And like I said, he doesn't have to move, but if he dislikes the country that much, why doesn't he? why would he stay here and face this constant torment? How have you not gotten that impression?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Any of you folks who feel AZ's is in the wrong, with this new law against illegals, need to join the movement to boycott anything involving AZ. Boycott games, vacationing, or anything that comes out of that state.
The same people who feel threaten by illegals are the same people who felt threaten by blacks, certain white people are just passing down the hate from generation to generation...its all over our history. This has everything to do with racism, that's the bottom line... Reform could take place, but these people want no part of making illegals actual citizens, even though it could be financially beneficial to our country.
Hope I could at least find someone else out there who is willing to take this type of action.
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
Completely bias reports have come out on both sides of the immigration issue regarding its true cost to America as a whole, so I cannot really speak to the actual cost to all tax payers. But I can say from my knowledge and experience, there are many illegal immigrants who come to Minneapolis with active TB or LTBI. These people, note the term because that is what they are, get thousands of dollars in healthcare paid for by property taxes and money from the state of minnesota. That is a substantial cost. I am glad we do it, otherwise TB might become a huge problem again, but it is still a cost. I don't know how much they pay in taxes as a group, but I do know the ones I work with do not pay a dime as they work for only cash. We would not have this cost if the border was secure.
The law will get struck down by either the state or us supreme court, so I am not sure what you are worried about anyway. why on earth do you keep ignoring me when I say that? This is either the greatest troll job in the history of the internet or you are just ignoring it because it is more fun to complain about something that hasn't happened yet.
I love my country - However I am not naive. I have done some reading here and there about my country's history and understand the actions it has taken through out our history. Because I don't believe that our country acted in the correct manner, on many occasions doesn't make me non patriotic or not love my country. Don't try and change the subject -its just the facts and I'm using them to prove points when discussing this issue of immigration.
As far as not answering your question - I have chosen not to because it's lined up with the hate of our nation. It moves our nation backwards. You state that this will probably not pass the federal courts, but the fact that we are still discussing the issue of race and hate is disheartening. You make it seem like its fine because it simply wont stick.... But ignore the fact that we still have this problem! That is my issue with your comment. Your right, it might not stick but the fact that we are going through all of this hate is sickening and makes me sad. Your comment makes me feel like your not getting the point, and your simply moving on because it wont stick.
The same words people are using against illegal immigrants today are the same words people were using against blacks in the 60's! WHAT HAS FREAKING CHANGED?????
everything has chains (changed- to me) Absolutely nothings changed !
We are an advanced civilization, yet we can't get pass our differences
It is my understanding that the new rule is being imposed because the set of rules for entering the U.S. is being disregarded by a large number of people.
When I enter country I abide by the rules and carry a passport with me at all times. When I'm in the U.S. I carry identification with me at all times unless I'm swimming. It sucks that Arizona is doing this but there are a good number of people that didn't follow the rules for entering the U.S. and unfortunately it is going to affect some law abiding citizens and legal immigrants along the way.
As for racial profiling, I don't think the cops need this law anyway to add to their repertoire. That is what Click-It or Ticket is for.
unfortunately it is going to affect some law abiding citizens and legal immigrants along the way
I was born in the US and have lived here my whole life, am I suppose to now accept this change, based on my skin color? Oh well, I have to accept the fact that I am different. F@*! that America is better then that! At least its principles and Ideology is!
I agree that it is not a win-win situation. I think this will be a bigger problem for a recent legal citizen that does not have any identification and can't speak English very well. They will tend to suffer the most.
If you have lived here all your life, your communication skills should be sufficient for evading the new law.
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
i've read all of his posts and i have not gotten that impression. are you the america police and telling people who can stay and who must go? as if its that easy....very mature argument there....
didn't say he had to go, just said if he doesn't like it here, he can freely leave. That is not childish in anyway. I certainly have gotten that impression, he has talked about how america exploits brown skinned people throughout the world for the progress and wealth of the white Americans, he has talked about how racist the cops generally are and how racist a country we are. Also he has talked about the "crimes" the us has committed around the world. Certainly seems like he does not like the US at all.
And like I said, he doesn't have to move, but if he dislikes the country that much, why doesn't he? why would he stay here and face this constant torment? How have you not gotten that impression?
so how does pointing out the shortcomings and the warts of your country make you hate your country or dislike living there? are you suggesting we can not be critical of our country? if that is what your are suggesting that is a very childish stance to take and would explain why we are so stupid and short sighted as a population. can you refute any of the things this country has done? or is it easier to ignore them and act as if they did not happen to perpetuate the illusion that our country is so perfect....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
i've read all of his posts and i have not gotten that impression. are you the america police and telling people who can stay and who must go? as if its that easy....very mature argument there....
didn't say he had to go, just said if he doesn't like it here, he can freely leave. That is not childish in anyway. I certainly have gotten that impression, he has talked about how america exploits brown skinned people throughout the world for the progress and wealth of the white Americans, he has talked about how racist the cops generally are and how racist a country we are. Also he has talked about the "crimes" the us has committed around the world. Certainly seems like he does not like the US at all.
And like I said, he doesn't have to move, but if he dislikes the country that much, why doesn't he? why would he stay here and face this constant torment? How have you not gotten that impression?
I'm Correcting You -America has exploited many races...including white people........
read through my many post...
Never once did I say Whites have done anything...you must have assumed it based on history. Never once did I say all cops are racist or that anyone specifically is racist.
I love the US that's why I live here- Never said there was constant Torment about anything? I just don't ignore our history and the facts. I could talk about the many wonderful things our country has done, but right now I need to use the negatives to prove points against the opposition.
I am not picking on any specific race.... I am looking for a solution...will you help? and please don't say get the F@*! out of here or something counter productive.... we have a problem here ... How can we become a better civilization?
are you suggesting we can not be critical of our country? if that is what your are suggesting that is a very childish stance to take and would explain why we are so stupid and short sighted as a population. can you refute any of the things this country has done? or is it easier to ignore them and act as if they did not happen to perpetuate the illusion that our country is so perfect....
Wow - these are some powerful words - I love them +1
a lot of history books have tried to do this..... but the times are a changing....
Your comments are pure honesty and makes perfect sense. Now if only other civilizations would accept this- we might be living in a better world.
Any of you folks who feel AZ's is in the wrong, with this new law against illegals, need to join the movement to boycott anything involving AZ. Boycott games, vacationing, or anything that comes out of that state.
The same people who feel threaten by illegals are the same people who felt threaten by blacks, certain white people are just passing down the hate from generation to generation...its all over our history. This has everything to do with racism, that's the bottom line... Reform could take place, but these people want no part of making illegals actual citizens, even though it could be financially beneficial to our country.
Hope I could at least find someone else out there who is willing to take this type of action.
It sure does seem to me, in reading all of your posts OP that you really do not like living in America. Why don't you exercise one of our greatest rights, being able to travel freely, and move. No one is keeping people in Arizona.
Completely bias reports have come out on both sides of the immigration issue regarding its true cost to America as a whole, so I cannot really speak to the actual cost to all tax payers. But I can say from my knowledge and experience, there are many illegal immigrants who come to Minneapolis with active TB or LTBI. These people, note the term because that is what they are, get thousands of dollars in healthcare paid for by property taxes and money from the state of minnesota. That is a substantial cost. I am glad we do it, otherwise TB might become a huge problem again, but it is still a cost. I don't know how much they pay in taxes as a group, but I do know the ones I work with do not pay a dime as they work for only cash. We would not have this cost if the border was secure.
The law will get struck down by either the state or us supreme court, so I am not sure what you are worried about anyway. why on earth do you keep ignoring me when I say that? This is either the greatest troll job in the history of the internet or you are just ignoring it because it is more fun to complain about something that hasn't happened yet.
I love my country - However I am not naive. I have done some reading here and there about my country's history and understand the actions it has taken through out our history. Because I don't believe that our country acted in the correct manner, in many occasions doesn't make me non patriotic or not love the fact that I live in the greatest nation of the World. Don't try and change the subject -its just the facts and I'm using them to prove points when discussing this issue.
As far as not answering your question - I have chosen not to because it is lined up with the hate of our nation, it takes us as a nation backwards. You state that this will probably not pass the federal courts, but the fact that we are still discussing this issue in this manner is steps back. You make it seem like its ok, this wont stick.... But ignore the fact that we still have this problem! That is my issue with your comment, your right it might not stick, but the fact that we are going through all of this hate is sickening and makes me sad.
The same words people are using against illegal immigrants today are the same words people were using against blacks in the 60's! WHAT HAS FREAKING CHANGED?????
everything has chains (changed- to me) Absolutely nothings changed !
We are an advanced civilization, yet we can't get pass our differences
what about saying that the US supreme court or the Arizona state supreme court striking down this law is lined up with all the hate again?
No it isn't, it isn't a black white brown yellow issue. It is a criminal issue. It is ILLEGAL. It isn't based on hate of the mexican immigrant, it is based on the hate of people illegally coming to the country and our federal government seemingly unable to do anything to stop them. they are taking the risk. It isn't about hating them because they are brown. We limit all people coming to the country. My friend and coaching buddy just got sent back to .... CANADA because his work visa expired and he needed to go back and fill out paper work to get back here. Huh, pretty damn racist to me. Sent him back based on his skin col....oh wait they sent him back because if he had stayed here and worked without his work visa he would be here ILLEGALLY...
and no I am not suggesting that you cannot be critical of our country, I was saying that to ONE person on this forum who seemed to me to not just be critical but be afraid for everyday of his life here and seemed to hate the US with passion. that is my impression of him. that is why in my very first post I said it is hard to have a discussion rationally about such a passionate and personal topic because people tend to do things like you are doing now. Take a sentence that was one piece of a much smaller post, change the angle from which it was delivered and then attack it.
He can be critical of this country all day long, but living in constant fear must suck, which is why I told him he can leave and go to a place where he doesn't have to...
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
should i skip the rockies/diamondbacks game tomorrow? haha.
It might be a joke to you, but for many of us who weren't born with white skin - it's definitely not funny. This is a stressful time for many of us American's who weren't fortunate enough to be born with white skin....
this post in itself implies that white people are doing it.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
should i skip the rockies/diamondbacks game tomorrow? haha.
It might be a joke to you, but for many of us who weren't born with white skin - it's definitely not funny. This is a stressful time for many of us American's who weren't fortunate enough to be born with white skin....
this post in itself implies that white people are doing it.
How do you figure? I don't see that at all in this post.
so how does pointing out the shortcomings and the warts of your country make you hate your country or dislike living there? are you suggesting we can not be critical of our country? if that is what your are suggesting that is a very childish stance to take and would explain why we are so stupid and short sighted as a population. can you refute any of the things this country has done? or is it easier to ignore them and act as if they did not happen to perpetuate the illusion that our country is so perfect....
it isn't about refuting anything the country has done, I understand we have done terrible things, but ALL countries have done terrible things. and like I said, it is fine that someone be critical of the US, hell you can protest here freely, one of the great things about our country. But he/she in particular seems to be living in a country he has deemed not only terrible and racist, but apparently he is afraid every day for what might happen. I am not standing up for anything we have done, I was talking to one person specifically about living in the US when it seemed as though he did not like it here, history or the present. Do not take something and turn it into what it wasn't. No country is perfect, but you cannot say how imperfect we are and then ignore that our checks and balances will no doubt strike this law down.
Post edited by mikepegg44 on
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
How do you figure? I don't see that at all in this post.
I am not surprised you would not see it, this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier. Many people can take an internet post many ways. But I see this, and many of his posts, as that implying white privilege.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
We are an advanced civilization, yet we can't get pass our differences
No it isn't, it isn't a black white brown yellow issue. It is a criminal issue. It is ILLEGAL. It isn't based on hate of the mexican immigrant, it is based on the hate of people illegally coming to the country and our federal government seemingly unable to do anything to stop them.
The issue is that I am an American and I do pay my taxes ...and all the things that the average American does, only problem is that my skin is brown. Now I have to take other precautions because of the color of my skin.
My friend and coaching buddy just got sent back to .... CANADA because his work visa expired and he needed to go back and fill out paper work to get back here. Huh, pretty damn racist to me. Sent him back based on his skin col....oh wait they sent him back because if he had stayed here and worked without his work visa he would be here ILLEGALLY...
They send back thousands of people all the time bases on those simple facts- Only difference now is that you would have probably been fined or harassed for not reporting your friend as an illegal alien... Guilt by association!
and no I am not suggesting that you cannot be critical of our country, I was saying that to ONE person on this forum who seemed to me to not just be critical but be afraid for everyday of his life here and seemed to hate the US with passion. that is my impression of him. that is why in my very first post I said it is hard to have a discussion rationally about such a passionate and personal topic because people tend to do things like you are doing now. Take a sentence that was one piece of a much smaller post, change the angle from which it was delivered and then attack it.
He can be critical of this country all day long, but living in constant fear must suck, which is why I told him he can leave and go to a place where he doesn't have to..
I might be giving hypothetical examples of what might happen to me, but the fact is that it is possible and legal.
I am trying to be fare and answer direct comments, IN HOPE THAT WE CAN FIND A BETTER SOLUTION AND WORK TOGETHER ON A GOOD CAUSE
I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know..... it does suck for me, and it's saddening that some people can't be sympathetic and use reason/logic to find a better solution to the problems of our nation
We try and spread democracy by exploiting other races, we try to spread Christianity by destroying other beliefs, we try to make our race superior to all other races, and if you really analyze history it has always been about protecting America's interest (regardless if we are in the right or wrong).
this is either a misunderstanding of what race or again he is implying white v. dark skinned. Am I the only person who has gotten this impression? if so then I must be way off and I apologize
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
should i skip the rockies/diamondbacks game tomorrow? haha.
It might be a joke to you, but for many of us who weren't born with white skin - it's definitely not funny. This is a stressful time for many of us American's who weren't fortunate enough to be born with white skin....
this post in itself implies that white people are doing it.
White people are doing what? Let me clarify it- Just ask me directly and we can move towards solving the problem.....
The fact that I was not born with white skin makes me a target - Its simple
Illegal immigrants who are white in skin color have a better chance of not being harassed because of the color of there skin. In the case of living in AZ you are fortune to have white skin because you don't have to deal with the harassment. This law targets people who do not appear to be legal citizens based on there appearance.
We try and spread democracy by exploiting other races, we try to spread Christianity by destroying other beliefs, we try to make our race superior to all other races, and if you really analyze history it has always been about protecting America's interest (regardless if we are in the right or wrong).
this is either a misunderstanding of what race or again he is implying white v. dark skinned. Am I the only person who has gotten this impression? if so then I must be way off and I apologize
My apologies, my comment about "our race superior to all other races" is intended to be "America as a race" or America's way of life is to be the superior way of life - hope you can understand my grammar stinks!
I am not speaking specifically about white people being racist- the point of this post is the issue in AZ- I don't mean to draw away from that discussion.
this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier. Many people can take an internet post many ways. But I see this, and many of his posts, as that implying white privilege.
Well, yeah, I think it implies white privilege. (Do you think white privilege doesn't exist?) But that's not the same as "white people are doing it".
so how does pointing out the shortcomings and the warts of your country make you hate your country or dislike living there? are you suggesting we can not be critical of our country? if that is what your are suggesting that is a very childish stance to take and would explain why we are so stupid and short sighted as a population. can you refute any of the things this country has done? or is it easier to ignore them and act as if they did not happen to perpetuate the illusion that our country is so perfect....
it isn't about refuting anything the country has done, I understand we have done terrible things, but ALL countries have done terrible things. and like I said, it is fine that someone be critical of the US, hell you can protest here freely, one of the great things about our country. But he/she in particular seems to be living in a country he has deemed not only terrible and racist, but apparently he is afraid every day for what might happen. I am not standing up for anything we have done, I was talking to one person specifically about living in the US when it seemed as though he did not like it here, history or the present. Do not take something and turn it into what it wasn't. No country is perfect, but you cannot say how imperfect we are and then ignore that our checks and balances will no doubt strike this law down.
What, may I ask, is your race? (Or if you wouldn't categorize yourself into any race, what race do others see when they look at you?)
We are an advanced civilization, yet we can't get pass our differences
No it isn't, it isn't a black white brown yellow issue. It is a criminal issue. It is ILLEGAL. It isn't based on hate of the mexican immigrant, it is based on the hate of people illegally coming to the country and our federal government seemingly unable to do anything to stop them.
The issue is that I am an American and I do pay my taxes ...and all the things that the average American does, only problem is that my skin is brown. Now I have to take other precautions because of the color of my skin.
My friend and coaching buddy just got sent back to .... CANADA because his work visa expired and he needed to go back and fill out paper work to get back here. Huh, pretty damn racist to me. Sent him back based on his skin col....oh wait they sent him back because if he had stayed here and worked without his work visa he would be here ILLEGALLY...
They send back thousands of people all the time bases on those simple facts- Only difference now is that you would have probably been fined or harassed for not reporting your friend as an illegal alien... Guilt by association!
and no I am not suggesting that you cannot be critical of our country, I was saying that to ONE person on this forum who seemed to me to not just be critical but be afraid for everyday of his life here and seemed to hate the US with passion. that is my impression of him. that is why in my very first post I said it is hard to have a discussion rationally about such a passionate and personal topic because people tend to do things like you are doing now. Take a sentence that was one piece of a much smaller post, change the angle from which it was delivered and then attack it.
He can be critical of this country all day long, but living in constant fear must suck, which is why I told him he can leave and go to a place where he doesn't have to..
I might be giving hypothetical examples of what might happen to me, but the fact is that it is possible and legal.
I am trying to be fare and answer direct comments, IN HOPE THAT WE CAN FIND A BETTER SOLUTION AND WORK TOGETHER ON A GOOD CAUSE I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know..... it does suck for me, and it's saddening that some people can't be sympathetic and use reason/logic to find a better solution to the problems of our nation
you will only be deported if you are not a citizen, don't worry about it. You will not be deported. But lets drop this side of the issue because it seems to be getting us off track.
so instead of worrying about what might happen, why don't you rejoice in the fact that you live in a country that will more than likely strike this law down as a violation of the people's civil rights. That is the most likely "what if" in all of these scenarios.
This law is extreme and will be shot down, but I think it speaks to a much bigger issue in that many people will start supporting more and more outrageous laws if nothing is down to solve the issue.
It is a lot like a hockey game. Those who play can attest to the fact that if a referee lets a lot of penalties and cheap shots go, the game because very violent very fast. It escalates incredibly fast and someone eventually gets needlessly hurt by it. In this scenario, the US government is the ref, and they have been letting people break the rules for way too long and now someone is going to get hurt because of it. Something needs to be done, and a law like this getting support only proves that matter. But in practice this law will never be, I have enough confidence in the branches of our government and things like judicial review to know that this law will not be held constitutional. But it screams that something needs to be done NOW
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know.....
Are you really afraid of being DEPORTED?? Or just harassed?
so how does pointing out the shortcomings and the warts of your country make you hate your country or dislike living there? are you suggesting we can not be critical of our country? if that is what your are suggesting that is a very childish stance to take and would explain why we are so stupid and short sighted as a population. can you refute any of the things this country has done? or is it easier to ignore them and act as if they did not happen to perpetuate the illusion that our country is so perfect....
it isn't about refuting anything the country has done, I understand we have done terrible things, but ALL countries have done terrible things. and like I said, it is fine that someone be critical of the US, hell you can protest here freely, one of the great things about our country. But he/she in particular seems to be living in a country he has deemed not only terrible and racist, but apparently he is afraid every day for what might happen. I am not standing up for anything we have done, I was talking to one person specifically about living in the US when it seemed as though he did not like it here, history or the present. Do not take something and turn it into what it wasn't. No country is perfect, but you cannot say how imperfect we are and then ignore that our checks and balances will no doubt strike this law down.
What, may I ask, is your race? (Or if you wouldn't categorize yourself into any race, what race do others see when they look at you?)
I am white. I do categorize myself as white, (irish/english). I have had to work extremely hard to make something of myself and I believe that everyone here can do the same. I was a sociology major for my first ba and have been working in healthcare while attending nursing school. I minored in philosophy as well. It just seems to me that too many people on this forum especially look at life through the lens of a conflict theorist and do not see the pragmatism involved. I see each person as a person unto themselves. They are all equal in my book, right up until I meet them and find out what they are about. Working in a public health clinic has definitely taught me that. Anything else you would like to know about me? Since we are getting to know each other finally after a few forum battles, what is your race? what is your background?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know.....
Are you really afraid of being DEPORTED?? Or just harassed?
Personally I am not really afraid, but I fear for those who might be. Fear of the harassment fear of the deportation. I am very sympathetic because I have lived the race divisions. Personally if I were stopped I wouldn't show documentation or even speak English just to stand/suffer hand in hand with human beings.
IF... Illegal Immigration is so serious a problem in America, as to draft such aggressive legislation against those immigrants... how about some common sense root cause analysis to come up with a lasting solution?
Why do people come here illegally?
Because it is restrictive for many to gain legal access through proper channels.
Because they can earn more wages here, than their homeland. Many are unskilled, untrained, uneducated and poor from rural regions. It doesn't require a lot of skills or education to man a leaf blower, hang drywall or bust out a concrete driveway with a sledge hammer.
Because there is work here.
...
I say, if you remove the reasons WHY people come here... they would not come here.
If we are going to aggressively persue the immigrants... how about applying that same aggressive persuit on the Americans that hire them? How come everyone isn't up in arm and going after the heads of the American restaurant owners, farmers, ranchers, landscaping contractors or building contractors? Aren't THEY part of the problem? Why doesn't the law target them as well. Hefty fines, seized assets, jail time for Americans that hire Illegal Immigrants would be a way to restrict the flow across the borders. Put the business owners that hire illegal immigrants out of business and in prison... if you are going to draft legislation such as this. Those American business owners are CRIMINALS and shoulsd be treated as such. From the largest farmer to the individual American citizen who hires one worker for one day to clear brush off his property. Jailtime and heavy penalties.
...
I think a better method would be to reform the immigration process to make it easier to gain access here for unskilled workers. I think we need the work they are offering for the pay they are receiving. Work out some sort of work visa or permit process with Mexico, Guatemala, etc... where laborers could come here for work, retain their Mexican citizenship and Mexico is billed for any unpaid health care costs, criminal proceedings and any other costs that are incured outside their work here. That is something the Federal Government needs to do with foriegn governments.
As for taking American jobs... would you want to swing a sledge hammer on 3 inches of steel reinforced concrete for 40 bucks? Fuck no. How about bussing tables at he Denny's for less than minimum wage? Picking onions from dawn til dusk in Bakersfield in June? You want those jobs for you or your kids.. you can have them.
I think if we, at bare minimum, tried to see things through the immigrants eyes... we would have some compassion for their plight and treat them as humans. They are humans... how about we start looking at them as humans?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If we are going to aggressively persue the immigrants... how about applying that same aggressive persuit on the Americans that hire them? How come everyone isn't up in arm and going after the heads of the American restaurant owners, farmers, ranchers, landscaping contractors or building contractors? Aren't THEY part of the problem?
abso-freaking-lutely. Well said. Would be a lot easier to do so if the government would quit the silly war on drugs that is causing a lot of the violence on the border and and put those resources to finding companies that do this and make examples of them. Immigration needs reformation. no doubt about it
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
But he/she in particular seems to be living in a country he has deemed not only terrible and racist, but apparently he is afraid every day for what might happen.
What, may I ask, is your race? (Or if you wouldn't categorize yourself into any race, what race do others see when they look at you?)
I am white. I do categorize myself as white, (irish/english). I have had to work extremely hard to make something of myself and I believe that everyone here can do the same. I was a sociology major for my first ba and have been working in healthcare while attending nursing school. I minored in philosophy as well. It just seems to me that too many people on this forum especially look at life through the lens of a conflict theorist and do not see the pragmatism involved. I see each person as a person unto themselves. They are all equal in my book, right up until I meet them and find out what they are about. Working in a public health clinic has definitely taught me that. Anything else you would like to know about me? Since we are getting to know each other finally after a few forum battles, what is your race? what is your background?
I'm as white as they come. That's me and my twin sister in my avatar. Mostly of Swedish, Finnish, and Scots-Irish descent. I'm from the south but have lived in the southwest since high school. I've lived primarily in places, including the Navajo Reservation in AZ, where white people are the minority. My BA is in women studies, with a minor in American studies, though I was a philosophy major for a long time. Now I'm working on a masters in public health, and have worked at a medical school / teaching hospital for the past 7 years.
I've had to work extremely hard to make something of myself, too, and also believe that everyone here has the potential to do the same. But I also believe in white privilege and think that, though everyone has the potential to make something of themselves, some face much greater disadvantages than others. I, too, see each person as a person unto themselves and they are equal in my book. But I know not everyone views people in that way, and I don't think our social structure is set up that way.
I asked your race because the sentence I quoted above seems typical to me of how white people and people of color might view this country differently, through their different lenses of experience.
I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know.....
Are you really afraid of being DEPORTED?? Or just harassed?
Personally I am not really afraid, but I fear for those who might be. Fear of the harassment fear of the deportation. I am very sympathetic because I have lived the race divisions. Personally if I were stopped I wouldn't show documentation or even speak English just to stand/suffer hand in hand with human beings.
Though this law encourages harassment, it also actually precludes the deportation of anyone who is here legally, ya know.
I think if we, at bare minimum, tried to see things through the immigrants eyes... we would have some compassion for their plight and treat them as humans. They are humans... how about we start looking at them as humans?
Personally I am not really afraid, but I fear for those who might be. Fear of the harassment fear of the deportation. I am very sympathetic because I have lived the race divisions. Personally if I were stopped I wouldn't show documentation or even speak English just to stand/suffer hand in hand with human beings.
Though this law encourages harassment, it also actually precludes the deportation of anyone who is here legally, ya know.
Completely understand- However it angers me that people will be detained on the terms of suspicion and detained for whatever amount of time until your legal status is proven. I am sure if a cop wants to be a total Awhole about it he/she can put you on the bus that is heading back to Mexico, and the legal part of this being lost in the screwed up court system.
Image going through this crap... its sad and full of hate....
I'm as white as they come. That's me and my twin sister in my avatar. Mostly of Swedish, Finnish, and Scots-Irish descent. I'm from the south but have lived in the southwest since high school. I've lived primarily in places, including the Navajo Reservation in AZ, where white people are the minority. My BA is in women studies, with a minor in American studies, though I was a philosophy major for a long time. Now I'm working on a masters in public health, and have worked at a medical school / teaching hospital for the past 7 years.
I've had to work extremely hard to make something of myself, too, and also believe that everyone here has the potential to do the same. But I also believe in white privilege and think that, though everyone has the potential to make something of themselves, some face much greater disadvantages than others. I, too, see each person as a person unto themselves and they are equal in my book. But I know not everyone views people in that way, and I don't think our social structure is set up that way.
I asked your race because the sentence I quoted above seems typical to me of how white people and people of color might view this country differently, through their different lenses of experience.
good luck on the masters, I know it is a shit load of work. It is where I am going next after my R.N is done. I think eventually we need to have a serious discussion as a country as to what is happening with race. it is so hard to talk about it without being seen as a racist no matter what side you are on. I think too often it clouds peoples minds needlessly. Too many people benefit from the ongoing racial divide
A lot of people quote a stat like there are a significantly higher proportion of black men in prison, and say our justice system is racist instead of looking at it and saying, now are these black people who are innocent? should we just arrest more white people to average it out? They separate it into race and say our criminal justice system is the problem instead of wondering why so many black men 18-34 are committing crimes. Is it because they have no opportunity? is it because they are more likely to grow up around it? what is the self perpetuating cycle? I know for a fact that black people as a group are not criminals, so why is it that our jails are so misrepresented...it cannot all be racism, can it? I mean, when people think of racist states Iowa is very far from the top on the list, but they have the most racially skewed prison system, at least as of 2007 they did.
I know I am going to get pounded for saying this as a racist but I am more of a pragmatist by nature. It doesn't make sense to me that racism can be the only reason behind this. But, when having a discussion about it, it always seems to break down to calling the justice system and the cops racists.
I don't know, maybe I am just naive. But I just don't think race and racism cause all the problems and are the motivation for a lot of behaviors.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Comments
I was born in the US and have lived here my whole life, am I suppose to now accept this change, based on my skin color? Oh well, I have to accept the fact that I am different. F@*! that America is better then that! At least its principles and Ideology is!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
didn't say he had to go, just said if he doesn't like it here, he can freely leave. That is not childish in anyway. I certainly have gotten that impression, he has talked about how america exploits brown skinned people throughout the world for the progress and wealth of the white Americans, he has talked about how racist the cops generally are and how racist a country we are. Also he has talked about the "crimes" the us has committed around the world. Certainly seems like he does not like the US at all.
And like I said, he doesn't have to move, but if he dislikes the country that much, why doesn't he? why would he stay here and face this constant torment? How have you not gotten that impression?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I love my country - However I am not naive. I have done some reading here and there about my country's history and understand the actions it has taken through out our history. Because I don't believe that our country acted in the correct manner, on many occasions doesn't make me non patriotic or not love my country. Don't try and change the subject -its just the facts and I'm using them to prove points when discussing this issue of immigration.
As far as not answering your question - I have chosen not to because it's lined up with the hate of our nation. It moves our nation backwards. You state that this will probably not pass the federal courts, but the fact that we are still discussing the issue of race and hate is disheartening. You make it seem like its fine because it simply wont stick.... But ignore the fact that we still have this problem! That is my issue with your comment. Your right, it might not stick but the fact that we are going through all of this hate is sickening and makes me sad. Your comment makes me feel like your not getting the point, and your simply moving on because it wont stick.
The same words people are using against illegal immigrants today are the same words people were using against blacks in the 60's! WHAT HAS FREAKING CHANGED?????
We are an advanced civilization, yet we can't get pass our differences
If you have lived here all your life, your communication skills should be sufficient for evading the new law.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm Correcting You -America has exploited many races...including white people........
read through my many post...
Never once did I say Whites have done anything...you must have assumed it based on history. Never once did I say all cops are racist or that anyone specifically is racist.
I love the US that's why I live here- Never said there was constant Torment about anything? I just don't ignore our history and the facts. I could talk about the many wonderful things our country has done, but right now I need to use the negatives to prove points against the opposition.
I am not picking on any specific race.... I am looking for a solution...will you help? and please don't say get the F@*! out of here or something counter productive.... we have a problem here ... How can we become a better civilization?
Wow - these are some powerful words - I love them +1
a lot of history books have tried to do this..... but the times are a changing....
Your comments are pure honesty and makes perfect sense. Now if only other civilizations would accept this- we might be living in a better world.
what about saying that the US supreme court or the Arizona state supreme court striking down this law is lined up with all the hate again?
No it isn't, it isn't a black white brown yellow issue. It is a criminal issue. It is ILLEGAL. It isn't based on hate of the mexican immigrant, it is based on the hate of people illegally coming to the country and our federal government seemingly unable to do anything to stop them. they are taking the risk. It isn't about hating them because they are brown. We limit all people coming to the country. My friend and coaching buddy just got sent back to .... CANADA because his work visa expired and he needed to go back and fill out paper work to get back here. Huh, pretty damn racist to me. Sent him back based on his skin col....oh wait they sent him back because if he had stayed here and worked without his work visa he would be here ILLEGALLY...
and no I am not suggesting that you cannot be critical of our country, I was saying that to ONE person on this forum who seemed to me to not just be critical but be afraid for everyday of his life here and seemed to hate the US with passion. that is my impression of him. that is why in my very first post I said it is hard to have a discussion rationally about such a passionate and personal topic because people tend to do things like you are doing now. Take a sentence that was one piece of a much smaller post, change the angle from which it was delivered and then attack it.
He can be critical of this country all day long, but living in constant fear must suck, which is why I told him he can leave and go to a place where he doesn't have to...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
this post in itself implies that white people are doing it.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
How do you figure? I don't see that at all in this post.
it isn't about refuting anything the country has done, I understand we have done terrible things, but ALL countries have done terrible things. and like I said, it is fine that someone be critical of the US, hell you can protest here freely, one of the great things about our country. But he/she in particular seems to be living in a country he has deemed not only terrible and racist, but apparently he is afraid every day for what might happen. I am not standing up for anything we have done, I was talking to one person specifically about living in the US when it seemed as though he did not like it here, history or the present. Do not take something and turn it into what it wasn't. No country is perfect, but you cannot say how imperfect we are and then ignore that our checks and balances will no doubt strike this law down.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I am not surprised you would not see it, this is a prime example of what I was talking about earlier. Many people can take an internet post many ways. But I see this, and many of his posts, as that implying white privilege.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
The issue is that I am an American and I do pay my taxes ...and all the things that the average American does, only problem is that my skin is brown. Now I have to take other precautions because of the color of my skin.
They send back thousands of people all the time bases on those simple facts- Only difference now is that you would have probably been fined or harassed for not reporting your friend as an illegal alien... Guilt by association!
I might be giving hypothetical examples of what might happen to me, but the fact is that it is possible and legal.
I am trying to be fare and answer direct comments, IN HOPE THAT WE CAN FIND A BETTER SOLUTION AND WORK TOGETHER ON A GOOD CAUSE
I am afraid of being deported because of the color of my skin, I don't think I could go to a different country because America is all I really know..... it does suck for me, and it's saddening that some people can't be sympathetic and use reason/logic to find a better solution to the problems of our nation
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
White people are doing what? Let me clarify it- Just ask me directly and we can move towards solving the problem.....
The fact that I was not born with white skin makes me a target - Its simple
Illegal immigrants who are white in skin color have a better chance of not being harassed because of the color of there skin. In the case of living in AZ you are fortune to have white skin because you don't have to deal with the harassment. This law targets people who do not appear to be legal citizens based on there appearance.
My apologies, my comment about "our race superior to all other races" is intended to be "America as a race" or America's way of life is to be the superior way of life - hope you can understand my grammar stinks!
I am not speaking specifically about white people being racist- the point of this post is the issue in AZ- I don't mean to draw away from that discussion.
:? :?
Well, yeah, I think it implies white privilege. (Do you think white privilege doesn't exist?) But that's not the same as "white people are doing it".
What, may I ask, is your race? (Or if you wouldn't categorize yourself into any race, what race do others see when they look at you?)
you will only be deported if you are not a citizen, don't worry about it. You will not be deported. But lets drop this side of the issue because it seems to be getting us off track.
so instead of worrying about what might happen, why don't you rejoice in the fact that you live in a country that will more than likely strike this law down as a violation of the people's civil rights. That is the most likely "what if" in all of these scenarios.
This law is extreme and will be shot down, but I think it speaks to a much bigger issue in that many people will start supporting more and more outrageous laws if nothing is down to solve the issue.
It is a lot like a hockey game. Those who play can attest to the fact that if a referee lets a lot of penalties and cheap shots go, the game because very violent very fast. It escalates incredibly fast and someone eventually gets needlessly hurt by it. In this scenario, the US government is the ref, and they have been letting people break the rules for way too long and now someone is going to get hurt because of it. Something needs to be done, and a law like this getting support only proves that matter. But in practice this law will never be, I have enough confidence in the branches of our government and things like judicial review to know that this law will not be held constitutional. But it screams that something needs to be done NOW
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Are you really afraid of being DEPORTED?? Or just harassed?
I am white. I do categorize myself as white, (irish/english). I have had to work extremely hard to make something of myself and I believe that everyone here can do the same. I was a sociology major for my first ba and have been working in healthcare while attending nursing school. I minored in philosophy as well. It just seems to me that too many people on this forum especially look at life through the lens of a conflict theorist and do not see the pragmatism involved. I see each person as a person unto themselves. They are all equal in my book, right up until I meet them and find out what they are about. Working in a public health clinic has definitely taught me that. Anything else you would like to know about me? Since we are getting to know each other finally after a few forum battles, what is your race? what is your background?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Personally I am not really afraid, but I fear for those who might be. Fear of the harassment fear of the deportation. I am very sympathetic because I have lived the race divisions. Personally if I were stopped I wouldn't show documentation or even speak English just to stand/suffer hand in hand with human beings.
Why do people come here illegally?
Because it is restrictive for many to gain legal access through proper channels.
Because they can earn more wages here, than their homeland. Many are unskilled, untrained, uneducated and poor from rural regions. It doesn't require a lot of skills or education to man a leaf blower, hang drywall or bust out a concrete driveway with a sledge hammer.
Because there is work here.
...
I say, if you remove the reasons WHY people come here... they would not come here.
If we are going to aggressively persue the immigrants... how about applying that same aggressive persuit on the Americans that hire them? How come everyone isn't up in arm and going after the heads of the American restaurant owners, farmers, ranchers, landscaping contractors or building contractors? Aren't THEY part of the problem? Why doesn't the law target them as well. Hefty fines, seized assets, jail time for Americans that hire Illegal Immigrants would be a way to restrict the flow across the borders. Put the business owners that hire illegal immigrants out of business and in prison... if you are going to draft legislation such as this. Those American business owners are CRIMINALS and shoulsd be treated as such. From the largest farmer to the individual American citizen who hires one worker for one day to clear brush off his property. Jailtime and heavy penalties.
...
I think a better method would be to reform the immigration process to make it easier to gain access here for unskilled workers. I think we need the work they are offering for the pay they are receiving. Work out some sort of work visa or permit process with Mexico, Guatemala, etc... where laborers could come here for work, retain their Mexican citizenship and Mexico is billed for any unpaid health care costs, criminal proceedings and any other costs that are incured outside their work here. That is something the Federal Government needs to do with foriegn governments.
As for taking American jobs... would you want to swing a sledge hammer on 3 inches of steel reinforced concrete for 40 bucks? Fuck no. How about bussing tables at he Denny's for less than minimum wage? Picking onions from dawn til dusk in Bakersfield in June? You want those jobs for you or your kids.. you can have them.
I think if we, at bare minimum, tried to see things through the immigrants eyes... we would have some compassion for their plight and treat them as humans. They are humans... how about we start looking at them as humans?
Hail, Hail!!!
abso-freaking-lutely. Well said. Would be a lot easier to do so if the government would quit the silly war on drugs that is causing a lot of the violence on the border and and put those resources to finding companies that do this and make examples of them. Immigration needs reformation. no doubt about it
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'm as white as they come. That's me and my twin sister in my avatar. Mostly of Swedish, Finnish, and Scots-Irish descent. I'm from the south but have lived in the southwest since high school. I've lived primarily in places, including the Navajo Reservation in AZ, where white people are the minority. My BA is in women studies, with a minor in American studies, though I was a philosophy major for a long time. Now I'm working on a masters in public health, and have worked at a medical school / teaching hospital for the past 7 years.
I've had to work extremely hard to make something of myself, too, and also believe that everyone here has the potential to do the same. But I also believe in white privilege and think that, though everyone has the potential to make something of themselves, some face much greater disadvantages than others. I, too, see each person as a person unto themselves and they are equal in my book. But I know not everyone views people in that way, and I don't think our social structure is set up that way.
I asked your race because the sentence I quoted above seems typical to me of how white people and people of color might view this country differently, through their different lenses of experience.
Though this law encourages harassment, it also actually precludes the deportation of anyone who is here legally, ya know.
Completely understand- However it angers me that people will be detained on the terms of suspicion and detained for whatever amount of time until your legal status is proven. I am sure if a cop wants to be a total Awhole about it he/she can put you on the bus that is heading back to Mexico, and the legal part of this being lost in the screwed up court system.
Image going through this crap... its sad and full of hate....
good luck on the masters, I know it is a shit load of work. It is where I am going next after my R.N is done. I think eventually we need to have a serious discussion as a country as to what is happening with race. it is so hard to talk about it without being seen as a racist no matter what side you are on. I think too often it clouds peoples minds needlessly. Too many people benefit from the ongoing racial divide
A lot of people quote a stat like there are a significantly higher proportion of black men in prison, and say our justice system is racist instead of looking at it and saying, now are these black people who are innocent? should we just arrest more white people to average it out? They separate it into race and say our criminal justice system is the problem instead of wondering why so many black men 18-34 are committing crimes. Is it because they have no opportunity? is it because they are more likely to grow up around it? what is the self perpetuating cycle? I know for a fact that black people as a group are not criminals, so why is it that our jails are so misrepresented...it cannot all be racism, can it? I mean, when people think of racist states Iowa is very far from the top on the list, but they have the most racially skewed prison system, at least as of 2007 they did.
I know I am going to get pounded for saying this as a racist but I am more of a pragmatist by nature. It doesn't make sense to me that racism can be the only reason behind this. But, when having a discussion about it, it always seems to break down to calling the justice system and the cops racists.
I don't know, maybe I am just naive. But I just don't think race and racism cause all the problems and are the motivation for a lot of behaviors.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan