I think we should make it simple, easy and free for anyone who wants to come here to do so legally (with the exception of known terrorists.
Nationalism and the concept of borders is just too close minded and restrictive in today's world. We're people. Just because one was born a little farther south than me, should I treat them different?
most country's in the world not agree I'm sure,people come over here and wave the flag from the country they
snuk over here from and many don't want to stay they just want the money to send HOME,I work with two guy's that work in SD and live Tijuana with their family's,as someone said they should fix their own country.
i saw a great documentary a few years ago following some illegals making the dangerous trek to try and enter into the US ... this is what is came down to:
many of these guys make $10 a day in their homeland and they would stay if they could only make $15 ...
for those who think they should "fix" their homeland - they should consider the US's (CIA) role in latin america ... "wealth" in the US is founded on the exploitation of others ... latin america is no stranger to the influences of american involvement ...
in any case - i think Cosmo's post sums it up nicely ... it's too bad many will just see nazi and automatically dismiss it ...
Once again, Americans want to bury our heads in the sand, pretend that our actions don't adversely affect others, and then blame the "Other" for all the perceived ills in the world.
And all of this talk about how the country of Mexico should get it's shit together distracts us not only from our own wrongdoing, but also from the fact that these are individual human beings we are talking about. But people don't seem to care about that. Yes, I agree that humanitarianism is the only approach (great post, Cosmo), but sometimes it seems that true humanitarianism is dead around here. :(
We have to remember: The personal is political. (And the political is personal.)
I think we should make it simple, easy and free for anyone who wants to come here to do so legally (with the exception of known terrorists.
Nationalism and the concept of borders is just too close minded and restrictive in today's world. We're people. Just because one was born a little farther south than me, should I treat them different?
most country's in the world not agree I'm sure,people come over here and wave the flag from the country they
snuk over here from and many don't want to stay they just want the money to send HOME,I work with two guy's that work in SD and live Tijuana with their family's,as someone said they should fix their own country.
Godfather.
Come on- They fix there own country? Do you think this is one big conspiracy? The two guys you know probably work at McDonald's - There are American's who do the same- I've seen it when I use to live in San Diego. You are talking about pocket change.
upon further reading of what this law entails/allows, in my opinion it allows for targeting people for extra scrutiny based on appearance and race alone. this is the legal equivalent of the trumped up charge of "driving while black" that crooked/bigoted cops used as an excuse to pull over african american teens and we debated that here several years ago.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
i saw a great documentary a few years ago following some illegals making the dangerous trek to try and enter into the US ... this is what is came down to:
many of these guys make $10 a day in their homeland and they would stay if they could only make $15 ...
for those who think they should "fix" their homeland - they should consider the US's (CIA) role in latin america ... "wealth" in the US is founded on the exploitation of others ... latin america is no stranger to the influences of american involvement ...
in any case - i think Cosmo's post sums it up nicely ... it's too bad many will just see nazi and automatically dismiss it ...
Once again, Americans want to bury our heads in the sand, pretend that our actions don't adversely affect others, and then blame the "Other" for all the perceived ills in the world.
And all of this talk about how the country of Mexico should get it's shit together distracts us not only from our own wrongdoing, but also from the fact that these are individual human beings we are talking about. But people don't seem to care about that. Yes, I agree that humanitarianism is the only approach (great post, Cosmo), but sometimes it seems that true humanitarianism is dead around here. :(
We have to remember: The personal is political. (And the political is personal.)
+1
Just like in South America - when the US was supplying guns / weapons to the Salvadorian Government to control there people- who were being exploited by US interest. The people of El Salvador tried to fight back against poverty and horrible living conditions, but the Government fought to destroy those hopes and dreams- All because the US was deeply invested in that country. The innocent people of EL Salvador who tried to migrate to the US would then be deported and sent back to those horrible living conditions.... it goes on and on.... Different country's similar stories.... But we are taught to be proud or simply not informed of all those horrible acts our country has participated in.
I understand the desperation of the Governor. I don't like the law but its obvious our federal government can't think for itself and aren't doing jack shit to help her state. She feels something needs to be done but I was wondering how the local officers feel about it. That might make their job even more dangerous.
upon further reading of what this law entails/allows, in my opinion it allows for targeting people for extra scrutiny based on appearance and race alone. this is the legal equivalent of the trumped up charge of "driving while black" that crooked/bigoted cops used as an excuse to pull over african american teens and we debated that here several years ago.
+1
That is what scares me even more- crooked cops / racist cops- Who are going to love fucking with innocent people, just because they can.
I went out for a jog around my neighborhood this morning and was only carrying my keys- I started thinking about the dark skinned people of AZ and wondered what they must be going through - I put myself in there shoes and asked myself - What if a COP wanted to fuck with me right now- and just stopped me for being brown - What if he questioned me and used racist comments, and then realized I didn't have any paper work on me... So he decided to take it further and arrest me.... People walking by watching all of this....looking at me as a criminal ... it was a horrible thought.... Knowing that it has come to this... knowing that because of the color of my skin I would have to take extra precautions and prepare for these types of situations..... Its sad... :( I really feel for all those people in AZ who will be scared by this... who have to suffer even more just because they are not white.... this advanced civilization of ours still struggling to understand....
Yet so many people on here think this is the right thing to do or to simply trust our Cops and Politicians, as if our history is somehow never going to repeat itself...as if crooked cops don't exist....
I understand the desperation of the Governor. I don't like the law but its obvious our federal government can't think for itself and aren't doing jack shit to help her state. She feels something needs to be done but I was wondering how the local officers feel about it. That might make their job even more dangerous.
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...and investigate them as criminals?.... I am sure AZ can come up with something better... We all know that immigration is an issue... And like many issues in our country they can be fixed with fare actions, but because of the interest, greed, hate, and ideologies they wont be fixed. Social Security can easily be fixed, but the right actions aren't taken to do it, because of special interest...
We spend 10+billion a month on a war ....to fight terrorist... yet the world hasn't changed.... People hate America because of our history and the fact that we still can't figure out right from wrong. We try and spread democracy by exploiting other races, we try to spread Christianity by destroying other beliefs, we try to make our race superior to all other races, and if you really analyze history it has always been about protecting America's interest (regardless if we are in the right or wrong).
I think we should make it simple, easy and free for anyone who wants to come here to do so legally (with the exception of known terrorists.
Nationalism and the concept of borders is just too close minded and restrictive in today's world. We're people. Just because one was born a little farther south than me, should I treat them different?
most country's in the world not agree I'm sure,people come over here and wave the flag from the country they
snuk over here from and many don't want to stay they just want the money to send HOME,I work with two guy's that work in SD and live Tijuana with their family's,as someone said they should fix their own country.
Godfather.
Come on- They fix there own country? Do you think this is one big conspiracy? The two guys you know probably work at McDonald's - There are American's who do the same- I've seen it when I use to live in San Diego. You are talking about pocket change.
no both of them make about $29+a hour and over time and double time on Sundays in the aerospace business.
and no they didn't go to collage, I'm not capping on these guys they are friends but if people really want to know the whole story this kind of shit is part of it,and their not the only two in San Diego that do this.
so tell me how dose that support our economy ?
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...
well when was that last time you saw a white person running across the border illegally into the US from mexico ?
who the hell are they supposed to watch ?
this whole friggin racist angel on the situation in Az. is fuckin bullshit.
should i skip the rockies/diamondbacks game tomorrow? haha.
It might be a joke to you, but for many of us who weren't born with white skin - it's definitely not funny. This is a stressful time for many of us American's who weren't fortunate enough to be born with white skin....
This is a stressful time for all americans no matter what color skin you were born "here"(a least it makes you a US citizen) with. I work 3+ jobs supporting my family. Pay lots & lots of taxes too. I don't see my fortune or being "fortunate" because I was born with white skin. This IS no laughing matter. We & all of our children will be paying more taxes to support our country's excess spending & lack of immigration control. The government has done nothing for years. They do not want to alienate possible voters so each state is forced to fend for themselves. Something should be done. Not sure if Arizona is doing the right thing, something for the supreme court to decide, maybe?
Seems that needlessly it's getting harder, to find an approach and a way to live
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...
well when was that last time you saw a white person running across the border illegally into the US from mexico ?
who the hell are they supposed to watch ?
this whole friggin racist angel on the situation in Az. is fuckin bullshit.
Godfather.
if its not racism then what is it???
it is RACIAL profiling at the very least, and potentially fucking with a lot of legal immigrants and citizens of this country....and that would be a violation of their civil rights...this law sets arizona back 40 years...
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...
well when was that last time you saw a white person running across the border illegally into the US from mexico ?
who the hell are they supposed to watch ?
this whole friggin racist angel on the situation in Az. is fuckin bullshit.
Godfather.
Dude you can go on and on about this issue- The fact is that your not being open minded about this- Your not seeing that this will not fix anything- It's only going to creat more problems. For example look at crime - Most conservatives want stronger punishments and bigger jails- And how many times has that happen? All the F@%!ing time! We build more jails make bigger punishments, yet crime continues to go up! Why? because we take the wrong approach -
The racist approach is not bullshit- Its a fact! Why should I have to carry extra documentation to prove my identity... what if some racist cop decides to fuck with me because of the color of my skin? Are you going to come to my rescue?
Timothy Mcvay would have probably been caught in AZ because of these laws, right?
I understand the desperation of the Governor. I don't like the law but its obvious our federal government can't think for itself and aren't doing jack shit to help her state. She feels something needs to be done but I was wondering how the local officers feel about it. That might make their job even more dangerous.
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...and investigate them as criminals?.... I am sure AZ can come up with something better... We all know that immigration is an issue... And like many issues in our country they can be fixed with fare actions, but because of the interest, greed, hate, and ideologies they wont be fixed. Social Security can easily be fixed, but the right actions aren't taken to do it, because of special interest...
We spend 10+billion a month on a war ....to fight terrorist... yet the world hasn't changed.... People hate America because of our history and the fact that we still can't figure out right from wrong. We try and spread democracy by exploiting other races, we try to spread Christianity by destroying other beliefs, we try to make our race superior to all other races, and if you really analyze history it has always been about protecting America's interest (regardless if we are in the right or wrong).
Americans don't try to spread christianity any more than christians from other countries do. we aren't the only nation in the world that is predominantly christian. We aren't exploiting other countries based on race, we exploit them based on third world status(because of payment scales and other things associated with exchange rates) and the amount of resources (people, oil, etc) they have. If it was economically viable we would exploit ireland or sweden in a heart beat. It isn't always solely about RACE.
We aren't a race here in the U.S. by the way. American isn't a race. If it was, I think we would all get along a lot better.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...
well when was that last time you saw a white person running across the border illegally into the US from mexico ?
who the hell are they supposed to watch ?
this whole friggin racist angel on the situation in Az. is fuckin bullshit.
Godfather.
what if some racist cop decides to fuck with me because of the color of my skin? Are you going to come to my rescue?
Timothy Mcvay would have probably been caught in AZ because of these laws, right?
aren't you claiming that this happens now? so what is the difference with or without this law? Not you specifically, but dark skinned people
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...
well when was that last time you saw a white person running across the border illegally into the US from mexico ?
who the hell are they supposed to watch ?
this whole friggin racist angel on the situation in Az. is fuckin bullshit.
Godfather.
if its not racism then what is it???
it is RACIAL profiling at the very least, and potentially fucking with a lot of legal immigrants and citizens of this country....and that would be a violation of their civil rights...this law sets arizona back 40 years...
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
should i skip the rockies/diamondbacks game tomorrow? haha.
It might be a joke to you, but for many of us who weren't born with white skin - it's definitely not funny. This is a stressful time for many of us American's who weren't fortunate enough to be born with white skin....
This is a stressful time for all americans no matter what color skin you were born "here"(a least it makes you a US citizen) with. I work 3+ jobs supporting my family. Pay lots & lots of taxes too. I don't see my fortune or being "fortunate" because I was born with white skin. This IS no laughing matter. We & all of our children will be paying more taxes to support our country's excess spending & lack of immigration control. The government has done nothing for years. They do not want to alienate possible voters so each state is forced to fend for themselves. Something should be done. Not sure if Arizona is doing the right thing, something for the supreme court to decide, maybe?
In this case it is a blessing to be born with white skin. This is not the right approach to take, because it can and will affect dark skinned American's. Imagine what dark skinned American's have to tell there kids. Put yourself in there situation and explain that to them. Image the hate that will build for generations to come, because we see color as less fortunate.
I too pay tons of taxes and so do many illegals - Which is why the Federal Government doesn't take serious action- The US is making tons of money off of illegals- and since greed runs this nation they have no problem with it. Obama really needs to step it up here and take a Reagan approach to this matter.
If there are over 20 million illegals here and if the ones that have no criminal record were to pay a fee of $10,000 and learn English I think that would benefit the country a great deal- 20 million times 10,000 is a pretty penny (that could pay for a few months of the Iraq war). Ofcourse that is possible, but the majority of people don't want that because? They don't want people of other races invading there country..... Which is complete BS! Most people just want to work to put food on the table. Not many are seeking political power or special interest.
what if some racist cop decides to fuck with me because of the color of my skin? Are you going to come to my rescue?
Timothy Mcvay would have probably been caught in AZ because of these laws, right?
[/quote]
aren't you claiming that this happens now? so what is the difference with or without this law? Not you specifically, but dark skinned people
[/quote]
I am a part of the Dark Skinned people- Does this happen to people now? I am sure many people are targeted for various reasons, but now we are accepting it as law- Now it is ok to target them based on the color of there skin. Even black people can be fucked with and deported. Many people who are from South America look black. The only folks who are safe are white people.
I am sure racist/ crooked people will start to do there part as citizens to support this law- I could see teachers reporting kids based on suspicions .... kids being escorted by police out of schools... People are either going to be afraid because they are not white or will start to fight against whites (based on trust issues)... This is an ugly period in our history.
I am sure there are better approaches .....
If Pearl Jam were to play in AZ I probably wouldn't go because of fear....and because of my boycott.... What if some COP tried to fuck with me and deport me to Mexico? It would be one big ass mess! All of this because of the color of my skin.... I would just rather avoid it and enjoy them in other parts of the country where the color of my skin is still acceptable.
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
1. Are you actually saying that legal immigrants won't be frequently stopped by the police because of this law?
2. Please prove that we taxpayers are footing the bill for illegal immigrants.
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
how can you not see that this law encourages racial profiling? are you that thick? how are these cops going to know if people are here legally or not unless they pull them over, or stop them on the street and ask for their papers? i am of the opinion that they are going to stop and fuck with more people that are here legally than they will those that are illegal. and its all based on skin color....nope, no racism there... :roll:
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Wow you learn something new every day!.....now correct me if I am wrong please.......I have a few questions
Only people with white skin that are Americans are racist bigots?
All other nationalities and skin color (other than white) that are Americans, are not racist bigots?
Now if someone is from another country and white, and here legally are they racist bigots also?
I just need to know because I always thought you had to actually talk with someone to find out if they are racist......My bad.....now I will know just by looking at someone’s skin color if they are a racist...
Then again I guess I am not as lucky being born white as the OP said......because when people look at my skin color I am considered a racist just because I am white....,is that racial profiling?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
In this case it is a blessing to be born with white skin. This is not the right approach to take, because it can and will affect dark skinned American's. Imagine what dark skinned American's have to tell there kids. Put yourself in there situation and explain that to them. Image the hate that will build for generations to come, because we see color as less fortunate.
I too pay tons of taxes and so do many illegals - Which is why the Federal Government doesn't take serious action- The US is making tons of money off of illegals- and since greed runs this nation they have no problem with it. Obama really needs to step it up here and take a Reagan approach to this matter.
If there are over 20 million illegals here and if the ones that have no criminal record were to pay a fee of $10,000 and learn English I think that would benefit the country a great deal- 20 million times 10,000 is a pretty penny (that could pay for a few months of the Iraq war). Ofcourse that is possible, but the majority of people don't want that because? They don't want people of other races invading there country..... Which is complete BS! Most people just want to work to put food on the table. Not many are seeking political power or special interest.
If anyone in the federal government said that all illegals can stay if they pay $10,000 and learn english they would be labeled as racist. There is no way to "win" here by doing anything short of letting them all come and stay and not do a damn thing about. I don't know what to do, this law might not be the be all end all answer, and it probably isn't, but at least they are doing something. It will really force debate to increase over the issue to actually pass something that works. But it is hard fr me to empathize with people who come here illegally and then want laws CHANGED to benefit them.
In this case it is a blessing to be born with white skin. This is not the right approach to take, because it can and will affect dark skinned American's. Imagine what dark skinned American's have to tell there kids. Put yourself in there situation and explain that to them. Image the hate that will build for generations to come, because we see color as less fortunate.
I am a part of the Dark Skinned people- Does this happen to people now? I am sure many people are targeted for various reasons, but now we are accepting it as law- Now it is ok to target them based on the color of there skin. Even black people can be fucked with and deported. Many people who are from South America look black. The only folks who are safe are white people.
I am sure racist/ crooked people will start to do there part as citizens to support this law- I could see teachers reporting kids based on suspicions .... kids being escorted by police out of schools... People are either going to be afraid because they are not white or will start to fight against whites (based on trust issues)... This is an ugly period in our history.
I am sure there are better approaches .....
people will not be deported unless they are here illegally. Why so afraid? All it seems like you are doing is worrying about the worst possible scenarios. When a person is stopped and they don't have "papers" or I.D it will probably be a minor inconvenience to most. but if you have it you don't have anything to worry about. They aren't going to take your id burn it and then deport you the next hour...
It seems like fear mongering to me as much as any the side you disagree with does. Lots of what ifs in this scenario, my guess is this doesn't make it past the state supreme court, much less the U.S. supreme court. You are right, there probably are better approaches, but it sure doesn't seem like either side wants to compromise so what are they supposed to do, nothing?
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Wow you learn something new every day!.....now correct me if I am wrong please.......I have a few questions
Only people with white skin that are Americans are racist bigots?
All other nationalities and skin color (other than white) that are Americans, are not racist bigots?
Now if someone is from another country and white, and here legally are they racist bigots also?
I just need to know because I always thought you had to actually talk with someone to find out if they are racist......My bad.....now I will know just by looking at someone’s skin color if they are a racist...
Then again I guess I am not as lucky being born white as the OP said......because when people look at my skin color I am considered a racist just because I am white....,is that racial profiling?
When did I ever say that anyone who is white is a racist? Where did I write that? The bottom line is that if you are not white and live in AZ you are subjected to racial profiling and should take extra precautions when traveling around the state. Just like there is hate in your rhetoric there is hate in other folks, some of which might be law enforcement.
If someone is white skinned and an illegal, then they probably wont be targeted out right, based on there appearance. It seems like common sense, why would I stop a white person out of the blue because he/she might be an illegal- chances are that they are American and I wouldn't want to waste there time, however a dark skin person I could pull over and waste there time questioning there status.
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
1. Are you actually saying that legal immigrants won't be frequently stopped by the police because of this law?
2. Please prove that we taxpayers are footing the bill for illegal immigrants.
1) are you actually saying ALL brown people will be stoped ?
people will not be deported unless they are here illegally. Why so afraid? All it seems like you are doing is worrying about the worst possible scenarios. When a person is stopped and they don't have "papers" or I.D it will probably be a minor inconvenience to most. but if you have it you don't have anything to worry about. They aren't going to take your id burn it and then deport you the next hour...
It seems like fear mongering to me as much as any the side you disagree with does. Lots of what ifs in this scenario, my guess is this doesn't make it past the state supreme court, much less the U.S. supreme court. You are right, there probably are better approaches, but it sure doesn't seem like either side wants to compromise so what are they supposed to do, nothing?
why so afraid? Because I am not white and could easily be fucked with based on the color of my skin. It's something that I would now have to prepare myself for in case I were in AZ. I am different because I am now profiled as a potential criminal simply based on my appearance. So if I am on a time schedule, and I am out for a morning jog I would now have to carry documentation...how is that being a free American? I pay taxes and I do my part to support my country, yet I am different based on my color. What if you and I were hanging out together in the parking lot waiting for a pj show to start (lets say ur white) and a cop stops me to discuss my legal status .... and doesn't question you because your white...Would you be ok with that? Would you understand that the fact that I am now profiled as a potential immigrant I have to be subjected to such treatment? Or is your response simple? "just have documentation and we can go about our fun"
think about that......I am not saying I don't support some kind of reform or protecting our boarders.... but this is not the way to do it.... and nothing is being done because the US benefits from illegals! believe that or not....but its true
Wow you learn something new every day!.....now correct me if I am wrong please.......I have a few questions
Only people with white skin that are Americans are racist bigots?
All other nationalities and skin color (other than white) that are Americans, are not racist bigots?
Now if someone is from another country and white, and here legally are they racist bigots also?
I just need to know because I always thought you had to actually talk with someone to find out if they are racist......My bad.....now I will know just by looking at someone’s skin color if they are a racist...
Then again I guess I am not as lucky being born white as the OP said......because when people look at my skin color I am considered a racist just because I am white....,is that racial profiling?
1. Only white people - as a group, on a national level - have the POWER to be racist.
2. No one has said that all white people are racists.
3. You are not considered racist because you are white. You are considered racist because you say racist things and promote racist ideas.
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
how can you not see that this law encourages racial profiling? are you that thick? how are these cops going to know if people are here legally or not unless they pull them over, or stop them on the street and ask for their papers? i am of the opinion that they are going to stop and fuck with more people that are here legally than they will those that are illegal. and its all based on skin color....nope, no racism there... :roll:
in a situation like Az. who else will they check and I don't think the police will be pulling over brown person they see......are you that thick ? why don't you sit down and really think about it instead of dreaming up a worst case
si-fi scenario.
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
1. Are you actually saying that legal immigrants won't be frequently stopped by the police because of this law?
2. Please prove that we taxpayers are footing the bill for illegal immigrants.
1) are you actually saying ALL brown people will be stoped ?
"The costs of the children of immigrants are accounted for [in the report], but not their contributions to the economy as workers and taxpayers," he said in a written statement, adding that the report's conclusions were not helpful to the debate on immigration reform.
Comments
most country's in the world not agree I'm sure,people come over here and wave the flag from the country they
snuk over here from and many don't want to stay they just want the money to send HOME,I work with two guy's that work in SD and live Tijuana with their family's,as someone said they should fix their own country.
Godfather.
Once again, Americans want to bury our heads in the sand, pretend that our actions don't adversely affect others, and then blame the "Other" for all the perceived ills in the world.
And all of this talk about how the country of Mexico should get it's shit together distracts us not only from our own wrongdoing, but also from the fact that these are individual human beings we are talking about. But people don't seem to care about that. Yes, I agree that humanitarianism is the only approach (great post, Cosmo), but sometimes it seems that true humanitarianism is dead around here. :(
We have to remember: The personal is political. (And the political is personal.)
Come on- They fix there own country? Do you think this is one big conspiracy? The two guys you know probably work at McDonald's - There are American's who do the same- I've seen it when I use to live in San Diego. You are talking about pocket change.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
+1
Just like in South America - when the US was supplying guns / weapons to the Salvadorian Government to control there people- who were being exploited by US interest. The people of El Salvador tried to fight back against poverty and horrible living conditions, but the Government fought to destroy those hopes and dreams- All because the US was deeply invested in that country. The innocent people of EL Salvador who tried to migrate to the US would then be deported and sent back to those horrible living conditions.... it goes on and on.... Different country's similar stories.... But we are taught to be proud or simply not informed of all those horrible acts our country has participated in.
+1
That is what scares me even more- crooked cops / racist cops- Who are going to love fucking with innocent people, just because they can.
I went out for a jog around my neighborhood this morning and was only carrying my keys- I started thinking about the dark skinned people of AZ and wondered what they must be going through - I put myself in there shoes and asked myself - What if a COP wanted to fuck with me right now- and just stopped me for being brown - What if he questioned me and used racist comments, and then realized I didn't have any paper work on me... So he decided to take it further and arrest me.... People walking by watching all of this....looking at me as a criminal ... it was a horrible thought.... Knowing that it has come to this... knowing that because of the color of my skin I would have to take extra precautions and prepare for these types of situations..... Its sad... :( I really feel for all those people in AZ who will be scared by this... who have to suffer even more just because they are not white.... this advanced civilization of ours still struggling to understand....
Yet so many people on here think this is the right thing to do or to simply trust our Cops and Politicians, as if our history is somehow never going to repeat itself...as if crooked cops don't exist....
So the best thing the AZ government can come up with is target people who are not white?...and investigate them as criminals?.... I am sure AZ can come up with something better... We all know that immigration is an issue... And like many issues in our country they can be fixed with fare actions, but because of the interest, greed, hate, and ideologies they wont be fixed. Social Security can easily be fixed, but the right actions aren't taken to do it, because of special interest...
We spend 10+billion a month on a war ....to fight terrorist... yet the world hasn't changed.... People hate America because of our history and the fact that we still can't figure out right from wrong. We try and spread democracy by exploiting other races, we try to spread Christianity by destroying other beliefs, we try to make our race superior to all other races, and if you really analyze history it has always been about protecting America's interest (regardless if we are in the right or wrong).
no both of them make about $29+a hour and over time and double time on Sundays in the aerospace business.
and no they didn't go to collage, I'm not capping on these guys they are friends but if people really want to know the whole story this kind of shit is part of it,and their not the only two in San Diego that do this.
so tell me how dose that support our economy ?
Godfather.
Constant Recoil..Sometimes life, Don't leave you alone
When the anxious is the present, unwrap your gifts, take your time
it is RACIAL profiling at the very least, and potentially fucking with a lot of legal immigrants and citizens of this country....and that would be a violation of their civil rights...this law sets arizona back 40 years...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Dude you can go on and on about this issue- The fact is that your not being open minded about this- Your not seeing that this will not fix anything- It's only going to creat more problems. For example look at crime - Most conservatives want stronger punishments and bigger jails- And how many times has that happen? All the F@%!ing time! We build more jails make bigger punishments, yet crime continues to go up! Why? because we take the wrong approach -
The racist approach is not bullshit- Its a fact! Why should I have to carry extra documentation to prove my identity... what if some racist cop decides to fuck with me because of the color of my skin? Are you going to come to my rescue?
Timothy Mcvay would have probably been caught in AZ because of these laws, right?
Americans don't try to spread christianity any more than christians from other countries do. we aren't the only nation in the world that is predominantly christian. We aren't exploiting other countries based on race, we exploit them based on third world status(because of payment scales and other things associated with exchange rates) and the amount of resources (people, oil, etc) they have. If it was economically viable we would exploit ireland or sweden in a heart beat. It isn't always solely about RACE.
We aren't a race here in the U.S. by the way. American isn't a race. If it was, I think we would all get along a lot better.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
aren't you claiming that this happens now? so what is the difference with or without this law? Not you specifically, but dark skinned people
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
no thats not true and the legal immigrants will have nothing to worry as long as they are legal,
this country has been kicked in the nuts over this crap we as tax payers are footing the bill for all illegal
people here and then we have to listen to this shit about rights ? they can go to their own fuckin country and
enjoy their rights there or do it right and become a American citizen and EARN the right to be here.
racism my ass, this country has laws like em or not we got em and if enter this country illegally your breaking one right off the bat.
Godfather.
In this case it is a blessing to be born with white skin. This is not the right approach to take, because it can and will affect dark skinned American's. Imagine what dark skinned American's have to tell there kids. Put yourself in there situation and explain that to them. Image the hate that will build for generations to come, because we see color as less fortunate.
I too pay tons of taxes and so do many illegals - Which is why the Federal Government doesn't take serious action- The US is making tons of money off of illegals- and since greed runs this nation they have no problem with it. Obama really needs to step it up here and take a Reagan approach to this matter.
If there are over 20 million illegals here and if the ones that have no criminal record were to pay a fee of $10,000 and learn English I think that would benefit the country a great deal- 20 million times 10,000 is a pretty penny (that could pay for a few months of the Iraq war). Ofcourse that is possible, but the majority of people don't want that because? They don't want people of other races invading there country..... Which is complete BS! Most people just want to work to put food on the table. Not many are seeking political power or special interest.
I am a part of the Dark Skinned people- Does this happen to people now? I am sure many people are targeted for various reasons, but now we are accepting it as law- Now it is ok to target them based on the color of there skin. Even black people can be fucked with and deported. Many people who are from South America look black. The only folks who are safe are white people.
I am sure racist/ crooked people will start to do there part as citizens to support this law- I could see teachers reporting kids based on suspicions .... kids being escorted by police out of schools... People are either going to be afraid because they are not white or will start to fight against whites (based on trust issues)... This is an ugly period in our history.
I am sure there are better approaches .....
1. Are you actually saying that legal immigrants won't be frequently stopped by the police because of this law?
2. Please prove that we taxpayers are footing the bill for illegal immigrants.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Only people with white skin that are Americans are racist bigots?
All other nationalities and skin color (other than white) that are Americans, are not racist bigots?
Now if someone is from another country and white, and here legally are they racist bigots also?
I just need to know because I always thought you had to actually talk with someone to find out if they are racist......My bad.....now I will know just by looking at someone’s skin color if they are a racist...
Then again I guess I am not as lucky being born white as the OP said......because when people look at my skin color I am considered a racist just because I am white....,is that racial profiling?
If anyone in the federal government said that all illegals can stay if they pay $10,000 and learn english they would be labeled as racist. There is no way to "win" here by doing anything short of letting them all come and stay and not do a damn thing about. I don't know what to do, this law might not be the be all end all answer, and it probably isn't, but at least they are doing something. It will really force debate to increase over the issue to actually pass something that works. But it is hard fr me to empathize with people who come here illegally and then want laws CHANGED to benefit them.
people will not be deported unless they are here illegally. Why so afraid? All it seems like you are doing is worrying about the worst possible scenarios. When a person is stopped and they don't have "papers" or I.D it will probably be a minor inconvenience to most. but if you have it you don't have anything to worry about. They aren't going to take your id burn it and then deport you the next hour...
It seems like fear mongering to me as much as any the side you disagree with does. Lots of what ifs in this scenario, my guess is this doesn't make it past the state supreme court, much less the U.S. supreme court. You are right, there probably are better approaches, but it sure doesn't seem like either side wants to compromise so what are they supposed to do, nothing?
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
When did I ever say that anyone who is white is a racist? Where did I write that? The bottom line is that if you are not white and live in AZ you are subjected to racial profiling and should take extra precautions when traveling around the state. Just like there is hate in your rhetoric there is hate in other folks, some of which might be law enforcement.
If someone is white skinned and an illegal, then they probably wont be targeted out right, based on there appearance. It seems like common sense, why would I stop a white person out of the blue because he/she might be an illegal- chances are that they are American and I wouldn't want to waste there time, however a dark skin person I could pull over and waste there time questioning there status.
1) are you actually saying ALL brown people will be stoped ?
2)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
Godfather.
why so afraid? Because I am not white and could easily be fucked with based on the color of my skin. It's something that I would now have to prepare myself for in case I were in AZ. I am different because I am now profiled as a potential criminal simply based on my appearance. So if I am on a time schedule, and I am out for a morning jog I would now have to carry documentation...how is that being a free American? I pay taxes and I do my part to support my country, yet I am different based on my color. What if you and I were hanging out together in the parking lot waiting for a pj show to start (lets say ur white) and a cop stops me to discuss my legal status .... and doesn't question you because your white...Would you be ok with that? Would you understand that the fact that I am now profiled as a potential immigrant I have to be subjected to such treatment? Or is your response simple? "just have documentation and we can go about our fun"
think about that......I am not saying I don't support some kind of reform or protecting our boarders.... but this is not the way to do it.... and nothing is being done because the US benefits from illegals! believe that or not....but its true
1. Only white people - as a group, on a national level - have the POWER to be racist.
2. No one has said that all white people are racists.
3. You are not considered racist because you are white. You are considered racist because you say racist things and promote racist ideas.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
in a situation like Az. who else will they check and I don't think the police will be pulling over brown person they see......are you that thick ? why don't you sit down and really think about it instead of dreaming up a worst case
si-fi scenario.
Godfather.
report doesn't include the following information:
"The costs of the children of immigrants are accounted for [in the report], but not their contributions to the economy as workers and taxpayers," he said in a written statement, adding that the report's conclusions were not helpful to the debate on immigration reform.