The PJ sell-out debate ends here

spankyMP

oh no, they are trying to promote themselves and make money at what they do for a living. :shock: freakin' sellouts MANNNNNN!!! who cares. :roll:

Ledbetterman10

spankyMP wrote:

oh no, they are trying to promote themselves and make money at what they do for a living. :shock: freakin' sellouts MANNNNNN!!! who cares. :roll:

you're right. who cares? those of us who call them sell-outs don't care that they're sell-outs, but we're just annoyed with the people who can't see it for themselves. I for one am fine with Pearl Jam being sell-outs so long as they rock my balls off at that Virginia show in two months.

Better Dan

ComeToTX wrote:

I only support them when I get what I want? They haven't played a proper show in my state in SEVEN years and in that time I've given them over 2 grand!

Fine, they only played 3 songs. They still traveled there and took all their gear so why not play a proper show while their there?

I wasn't referring to you directly, but addressing many of the complaints on this board. I'm from Texas also so I definitely understand how you feel. I don't consider the Target performance any more "selling out" than many other things the band has done throughout its career.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

ComeToTX wrote:

I don't care if they've sold out or not. Playing a show for Target when you ignore your fans in 70% of the country is insulting. Obviously they can do what they want but it's hard to deal with.

that pisses me off too. and i dont want to hear any more bullshit about "PJ has to keep costs down by not dragging their equipment and crew everywhere."

woundedorgan

I love PJ and don't really care if folks feel they have sold out.

I just wanted to share lyrics to a lovely Tool song.
cheers.

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,

Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

If I'm the fuckin' man
Then you're the fuckin' man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.

RockChalkJayhawk

I wish that those of you throwing the term sell-out around so loosely would just stop, and step back and judge these guys for their body of work so far and not just what you perceive as a recent trend towards the mass-marketing or over-saturation of their music. Forging an insanely successful 20 year career in such a volatile, black hole of an industry like this one takes sacrifice. I doubt they were thrilled about becoming involved in the Sony machine all those years ago, but to get their music out there, you make the sacrifice. Now, here we are 20 years later and we have seen the Target commercial, and the Guitar Hero thing, and the Verizon bootleg thing, and so on and so forth. Bottom line is, these guy's have families now and with them approaching their fifties, moderation is going to be the key to continuing to see this band on any sort of regular basis. I mean, if they were still doing 4 month long 80-something date tours than there would be no need to find alternate means of revenue. However, they have earned the right after 2 decades of doing this to spend their time with their families, and through touring in moderation hopefully go on well into their fifties as a touring act. The alternative is they continue to grind out massively expansive tours that wear them out, keep them from their families, and would ultimately lead to them disappearing for a long time (in my opinion.) Now those of you who say, 'give me a break, they have enough money, they dont need any more, etc." are being ridiculous. These guys have a chance to be able to provide for their families and THEIR families long after they are gone. You can't tell me that seeing them a couple of times in a Target commercial or hearing about them playing 3 songs with Norah Jones, or playing their songs in guitar hero, or being able to buy their bootlegs through Verizon is not worth the fact that they can stay off the road for another month and be with their families. You can't tell me it's not a decision you would also make. Just because you dont LIKE it, doesnt mean they are "sellouts."

I am not an apologist by any means. I simply get frustrated when people do lame things like declare a birth and death date of a band based on when they deemed them a "sellout." This is a real business, with real people, who have real lives, and at some point they need to step back a little bit and live their life away from us without having to deal with the financial ramifications of it. They've earned the right. Just like Pete and Roger earned the right to make a bunch of money perking people's ears up when they watch CSI or an older Nissan commercial, when they no longer felt the need to spend months and months and months on the road. Calling someone a sellout is something I did when i was like 14 and was pissed at the direction freakin' Green Day was headed. I am almost 30 now and recognize the human element in all of this and I think some of you should back up and try and do the same. I'll leave it at that. I'm psyched for the shows in May.

Hbudjr

woundedorgan wrote:

I love PJ and don't really care if folks feel they have sold out.

I just wanted to share lyrics to a lovely Tool song.
cheers.

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,

Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

So I've got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

If I'm the fuckin' man
Then you're the fuckin' man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.

WOW that pretty much sums it up!!!! Great Post!! Pearl Jam are who they are and like most I love the music the lyrics and everything else that comes with them call them sell outs all you want!!! They will NEVER make everyone happy christ peeps....

Hbudjr

RockChalkJayhawk wrote:

I wish that those of you throwing the term sell-out around so loosely would just stop, and step back and judge these guys for their body of work so far and not just what you perceive as a recent trend towards the mass-marketing or over-saturation of their music. Forging an insanely successful 20 year career in such a volatile, black hole of an industry like this one takes sacrifice. I doubt they were thrilled about becoming involved in the Sony machine all those years ago, but to get their music out there, you make the sacrifice. Now, here we are 20 years later and we have seen the Target commercial, and the Guitar Hero thing, and the Verizon bootleg thing, and so on and so forth. Bottom line is, these guy's have families now and with them approaching their fifties, moderation is going to be the key to continuing to see this band on any sort of regular basis. I mean, if they were still doing 4 month long 80-something date tours than there would be no need to find alternate means of revenue. However, they have earned the right after 2 decades of doing this to spend their time with their families, and through touring in moderation hopefully go on well into their fifties as a touring act. The alternative is they continue to grind out massively expansive tours that wear them out, keep them from their families, and would ultimately lead to them disappearing for a long time (in my opinion.) Now those of you who say, 'give me a break, they have enough money, they dont need any more, etc." are being ridiculous. These guys have a chance to be able to provide for their families and THEIR families long after they are gone. You can't tell me that seeing them a couple of times in a Target commercial or hearing about them playing 3 songs with Norah Jones, or playing their songs in guitar hero, or being able to buy their bootlegs through Verizon is not worth the fact that they can stay off the road for another month and be with their families. You can't tell me it's not a decision you would also make. Just because you dont LIKE it, doesnt mean they are "sellouts."

I am not an apologist by any means. I simply get frustrated when people do lame things like declare a birth and death date of a band based on when they deemed them a "sellout." This is a real business, with real people, who have real lives, and at some point they need to step back a little bit and live their life away from us without having to deal with the financial ramifications of it. They've earned the right. Just like Pete and Roger earned the right to make a bunch of money perking people's ears up when they watch CSI or an older Nissan commercial, when they no longer felt the need to spend months and months and months on the road. Calling someone a sellout is something I did when i was like 14 and was pissed at the direction freakin' Green Day was headed. I am almost 30 now and recognize the human element in all of this and I think some of you should back up and try and do the same. I'll leave it at that. I'm psyched for the shows in May.

+1 Great 2nd post!!!!

jordan k

No offence to anyone saying the band are sell outs but what planet are you living on?

How have you not sold out in your life? Cause if you have a job working for anyone but yourself guess what: you're a sellout (myself includes).

PJammer4life

They played 3 songs...about 13 minutes..and some would like to use that to tear down a 20 year career...

Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.

Now if it is so bad that it tarnishes the meanings of songs then you need to realize WHEN the song was written and what it meant then..yes song meanings change over time in your life, but that is your perception. Maybe Not For You loses some meaning when Ed sings it today..but it sure didn't back in the day..they have evolved..the music is a snapshot in time..maybe not timeless..but that's for future generations to decide.

And what proof do you have about water in the wine bottle?? I know there have been some shows were Ed has been a little drunk the last few years.

DewieCox

PJammer4life wrote:

Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.

Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.


To weigh in on the sellout thing...... Who wouldn't do what they do for millions of $$$?? You're fuckin crazy if you say otherwise, but most people that would do it wouldn't spend a career pretending they hated, to quote Ed, "the haves".

Better Dan

DewieCox wrote:

PJammer4life wrote:

Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.

Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.


To weigh in on the sellout thing...... Who wouldn't do what they do for millions of $$$?? You're fuckin crazy if you say otherwise, but most people that would do it wouldn't spend a career pretending they hated, to quote Ed, "the haves".

I definitely don't agree with all the sell out talk, but I do agree with part of what you said. I always wondered why the hell Ed insulted Bill Gates for being rich at some shows and wold even dedicate Soon Forget to him. It made me roll my eyes because we had one millionaire insulting someone else for being rich. Hypocrisy anyone?

PJammer4life

DewieCox wrote:

PJammer4life wrote:

Illegal downloading made it so Pearl Jam couldn't just say fuck the videos and promotion and magazines..cause no one would buy their CD's or come to their shows and they would be irrelevant.

Bullshit. They sell just as many albums now as they did in 96. Touring is the way bands make money and that's how PJ has become filthy rich.


No Code sold over a million copies with NO PROMOTION and NO TOURING. Backspacer with Rock Band/Target/Videos etc. has yet to pass 500,000 after 6 months. No Code had that in the first 2 weeks. So I would say they NEED this stuff to stay relevant for sales, whereas in 1996 they didn't need to do it to hit a million.

Paulie03

U R A Crazy Breed wrote:

you're right...Pearl Jam did sell out......don't believe me?






































go to the tickets section and click on Boston bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:

That is a quote straight from VH1 "Behind the Music" with Metallica When James Hetfield says " Ask me if we sold out, I say yes, every concert we perform"
Give credit where its due.

And by the way, how does everyone know that Eddie is filling his wine bottle with water? Thats bullshit if he is.

helplessdancer

i love it that they did the real me for this gig. its one of the greatest songs ever written.

soooo appropriate. i bet it was a real beautiful moment.

i'm also glad they made a pile of cash off target and that target gives back

walmart is the devil. target isn't even a close 2nd

mca47

I had a friend who was there last night and she said it was awesome.

That said...


This kind of thing is no different than what they've been doing for the last 10 years.
A sad reality for many of you, but it is what it is.

"Pearl Jam" is a corporation in and of themselves.

I know many of you like to think as much, but PJ would not be doing what they are doing if they weren't getting paid millions of dollars. They do what they do really well, and that's why we are here. Sure, they "give back" more so than most bands, but still...

I often think how interesting it would be for me to hang out with my former self (say from 10 years ago).
I wonder what PJ would think if they hung out with their former selves.

'92 PJ: "You guys are a bunch of sellouts!"
'10 PJ: "You guys don't get it"
'92 PJ: "Really? Target?...$90 tickets? We charge $25!"
'10 PJ: "We're RICH BITCH!"

SoonForgotten2

concertaholicshirt wrote:

breath123 wrote:

First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam

I agree... I've never had a lukewarm fan of Radiohead come up to me and say, "You HAVE to see them live. Was never a huge fan, but I saw them recently and they just BLEW ME AWAY!!!" I have had someone do that to me with PJ after a MSG show last year, which is why I finally got off my ass and saw them for the first time later in Philly. Yes... it's stupid to compare a live PJ show to a Radiohead show :P

Radiohead is an insanely popular band.

It's all subjective, but I don't know that I can agree with that. Coldplay is an insanely popular band. Radiohead has a very large VERY DEDICATED fanbase. However, I don't know that they're "and insanely popular band."

I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive.

EXTREMELY inexpensive, by comparison.

Radiohead sell out shows everywhere they go. They ARE hugely popular and are an amazing live act. While I prefer PJ, Radiohead are definitely the more talented musicians. Plus their stage set-up is more elaborate than PJs and yet maintains a certain classiness. They definitely could charge more for their tickets and sell just as much.

Dissidentman

SoonForgotten2 wrote:

concertaholicshirt wrote:

breath123 wrote:

First off it's stupid to compare radiohead and Pearl jam

I agree... I've never had a lukewarm fan of Radiohead come up to me and say, "You HAVE to see them live. Was never a huge fan, but I saw them recently and they just BLEW ME AWAY!!!" I have had someone do that to me with PJ after a MSG show last year, which is why I finally got off my ass and saw them for the first time later in Philly. Yes... it's stupid to compare a live PJ show to a Radiohead show :P

Radiohead is an insanely popular band.

It's all subjective, but I don't know that I can agree with that. Coldplay is an insanely popular band. Radiohead has a very large VERY DEDICATED fanbase. However, I don't know that they're "and insanely popular band."

I compare PJ prices to bloodsuckers like fleetwood mac, the Eagles and yes, our favorite anti corporate warrior uncle Neil Young. By comparison, they are inexpesive.

EXTREMELY inexpensive, by comparison.

Radiohead sell out shows everywhere they go. They ARE hugely popular and are an amazing live act. While I prefer PJ, Radiohead are definitely the more talented musicians. Plus their stage set-up is more elaborate than PJs and yet maintains a certain classiness. They definitely could charge more for their tickets and sell just as much.

Lets not be silly now... it's late, I know...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

bottom line: if the first reason you dig this band is because of their politics/morality/etc you need to find somewhere else to play.

you are sitting there on your high horse telling PJ what they morally can and cannot do with their own band, their own lives, their own money.

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE?

simpleman

JeffSide wrote:

bigbiggzy wrote:

Ok...so what, they used TM in 98 to sell tickets to their shows. That was after an extremly long battle w/TM and multiple attempts at trying to find an alternative solution. At that point...they had no other option...and frankly still don't.

Is that your definition of "selling out"?

Dude...they could've done so much more than use TM to sell their concert tickets to ppl who opted to pay their money and see them perform.

They were destroying themselves because there wasn't an alternative to TM. They're a rock band, not a ticketing company. I don't think you're seeing the big picture, buddy.

And back on my comment in re: 95-98....Post Vitalogy...they could've taken a shit on a t shirt and sold it for 100 bucks and ppl would've bought it........They literally walked away from becoming as big as...say...U2.

It's beyond me....and a waste of time....why someone thinks this is a valid arguement "Sellouts". When Eddie's got a line of cologne out and Stone becomes a fashion designer, we'll talk then. Until that day, crack a book open and realize these guys are just doing what they do. If you don't like it, don't listen or participate....

Peace.

So you should have said 1995-1997.
Have fun at the shows. Hold up a "Satan's Bed" sign! And tell Ed to listen to the lyrics again.

I like reading what you have to say. It finally makes me feel smarter than somebody. Take your 30 troll posts and go to that 3 doors down show. I'm sure you're 40 years old, divorced, broke, and trying to find your way out of your parents home. Please don't take it out on this website.... You were probably fun to hang out with when you were 4.