cate, you have to understand that I'm only going by the things you say here . You did initially say about how any stranger could be a serial killer... I later noticed that you retracted it. You also said in your last post that you don't like people! And I really believe we'd get on great if we met but just recently your posts seem to be negative and they haven't always been. I hope all's ok with you and DON'T take that as patronising cos I mean it.
ive noticed it too. and no im not okay.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
I think this is our problem- you are arguing about a first cause, which as I said earlier is not a part of the big bang theory. The big bang theory looks at events post planck epoch. Your criticism would be better focused on the Hartle-Hawking model, or another similar model proposing the creation event of a universe.
Ok. so you know that you are talking aout something else than anyone on this board when using the term big bang theory. Fine for you, but not relevant to the thread. Thanks for clearing things up, but, as I said, the big bang theory implies and relates directly to the moment before and to the moments afterwards, that is, the expansion. So why would you isolate the big bang theory from planck epoch? We all know what we mean when we say big bang.
These are the purely speculative mathamatical models that really don't have the support of a great deal of evidence. But the big bang theory is supported almost universally by astronomers.
I know it is supported. Every theory was supported at its time, and I support it, too. I was talking about possible future paradigm shifts because the astronomical knowledge is very limited, and you as an astronomist know that well.
Disagree with the theories by all means... just disagree with the right theories.
Well I dont disagree. I just said we, scientists, need to be open minded for the next Einstein or Planck or Schroedinger. I said big bang theory is not set in Stone.
dude you need to go take in a PJ show,sit on a park bench and admire nature,find some warm arms of a loving woman!
You realise you're talking to someone called Cate?
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
So he was not a communist then? Man I dont like people going smart on little details. Of course Stalin was a communist, whats up with you? Jews are born Jews, I know that, but Stalin was a Communist, a Nonbeliever and responsible for millions of deaths.
That was my point to tell people its false to think that only religion has blood on its hands. Hitchens and Dawkins are dodging this alot, and its so obvious. The first societies without religion messed up so bad, it was worse than a nightmare. Humanity's darkest our. That is no proof for God or anything, but I'm so tired of hearing that only religion is responsible for wars and hate. Most of the times its greed and the want for more power, i guess. Does anyone here actually think George Bush went to Iraq because of God?
So he was not a communist then? Man I dont like people going smart on little details. Of course Stalin was a communist, whats up with you? Jews are born Jews, I know that, but Stalin was a Communist, a Nonbeliever and responsible for millions of deaths.
i know that!!!
my point was Hitler is always considered the biggest monster in history yet Stalin,a Jew,killed way more people than Hitler.
So why would you isolate the big bang theory from planck epoch? We all know what we mean when we say big bang.
I think we are finally understanding each other. The big bang is isolated from the planck epoch because our current laws of physics break down at that scale. In other words, our current laws of physics do not allow us to know the events during or directly before the planck epoch. And it was these events that caused the initial expansion.
The expansion since that event, regardless of whether you subscribe to the standard big bang model or inflationary model (or neither), is at least knowable with the current laws of physics.
I am sure that most people do, as you said, associate the term big bang with an initial cause. But although it might make me appear pig headed, stubborn, and whatever else... I will continue to try and ensure that the science on here is as accuracte as possible. Even if nobody else cares about the wording!
my point was Hitler is always considered the biggest monster in history yet Stalin,a Jew,killed way more people than Hitler.
Bush is Luciferian not Christian.
What is your f*cking problem? Be careful what you say. Why do you say you know he was a communist and continue to claim he was a Jew? This happended before and its dangerous.
ok, ClimberInOz, that is all right. So the real interesting stuff happened before and we have no scientific means to look into that?
Almost entirely mathamatical models. One day maybe. But right now the best we can hope for is some sort of grand unifying theory that makes testable predictions. For the last few decades the theory has always been just around the corner, so I think we might be waiting a while for this yet.
my point was Hitler is always considered the biggest monster in history yet Stalin,a Jew,killed way more people than Hitler.
Bush is Luciferian not Christian.
Perhaps its because Stalins death toll had more to do with omitting to care for his people, ie starvation, extreme poverty; where as Hitler is associated with more affirmative conduct so heinous I can't bring myself to type it.
It is a natural inclination to perceive affirmative conduct as something distinct and in this case more frightening then even the grossest of calculated ommissions.
Also that is not to say that Stalin did not actively kill people, he did, many. But not as many, not a specific group of human beings singled out by unjustifiable hatred, and generally not in the same manner. One might be no better than the other, but you can understand why they aren't treated the same.
We are not cells or plants, fish or monkey. We are human. We have a soul and we constitute meaning. We have it in us to wonder about our creator.
---
Thats arrogant of you to say. How do you know how religion was created?Were you there?
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Take a good look at your history book. The 20century was the experiment with trying out societies without religion. It ended up in the biggest disaster of mankind. Hitler was a naturalist. Stalin was a communist.
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Plus, Christianity today is not fear mongering nor intollerant. It is a prejudice.
...
I believe that Man created God in his (Man's) image. This way, Man can lay Man's Ruin at God's feet and say, "God controls all". We can also claim God as our own... in order to seperate us from the rest life... to make US feel special. Man created God in his image and pinned human traits to God... to make Him angry... judgemental... condemning. This is Man's God as described to us by religion. God does not control us... religions use God to try to control us.
But, the way I see it... isn't God all loving? Tolerant of our imperfections? Accepting of our flaws? Forgiving of our sins? I just cannot believe He is just this grand narcissist that commands we love Him... because that is not love.
And it's not just Christianity... is is the nature of all religion... or most religions. To claim God as their own. It's not God that's the problem... it's all of His different fan clubs that seek exclusive rights to His love. Maybe, if just came to realize that all religions point to the same place and focus on our similarities, instead of trying to destroy because of our differences... we'd all be better off.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
So he was not a communist then? Man I dont like people going smart on little details. Of course Stalin was a communist, whats up with you? Jews are born Jews, I know that, but Stalin was a Communist, a Nonbeliever and responsible for millions of deaths.
That was my point to tell people its false to think that only religion has blood on its hands. Hitchens and Dawkins are dodging this alot, and its so obvious. The first societies without religion messed up so bad, it was worse than a nightmare. Humanity's darkest our. That is no proof for God or anything, but I'm so tired of hearing that only religion is responsible for wars and hate. Most of the times its greed and the want for more power, i guess. Does anyone here actually think George Bush went to Iraq because of God?
I'm back...
No Bush didn't invade Iraq based purely on his beliefs, but he claims he talks to God and God didn't tell him not to go. That's almost irrelevant though. The fundamental issue here is that if it weren't for religion there wouldn't be such much hatred between Islam and the West. If Allah didn't inspire Muslims to loathe Western culture, e.g. women's ankles, then we wouldn't be facing such serious conflict. The "war" in Iraq stems from disputes over Holy land which dates back decades and decades, long before the actual invasion.
As for Stalin, Hitchens has never dodged this subject. Dawkins doesn't talk about it often because, unlike Hitchens, he's an evolutionary biologist and typically steers clear of discussing politics.
This is Hitchens response to the Stalin argument:
Until 1917, millions of Russians had been told for…hundreds of years that the czar is the head of the church – which he was, the Russian Orthodox Church. That the leader of the country should be something a little more than human. Not a god, but a little more. He’s not divine, but a holy father.
If you’re Josef Stalin, you shouldn’t be in the dictatorship business if you don’t know how to exploit an inheritance like that: millions of credulous, servile people.
And what does he do? Lysenko’s biology – miracles, we can have three harvests a year if we believe in Lysenko’s biology. Inquisition, heresy hunt, orthodoxy. Everything comes from the top and must be thanked for, and groveled for. A complete replication of the preceding theocracy.
For your argument to have…any force at all, you’d have to point to a society that adopted the teachings of Lucretius, Spinoza, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Albert Einstein…and then fell into famine, dictatorship, torture and genocide. And you won’t, I think, be able to point to such.
I love the last statement. Does any believer envision a society like this, run by those people, would be rife with conflict and bloodshed?
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
But, the way I see it... isn't God all loving? Tolerant of our imperfections? Accepting of our flaws? Forgiving of our sins? I just cannot believe He is just this grand narcissist that commands we love Him... because that is not love.
Any Christian with his/her head screwed on would agree with this entirely.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
If anyone wants a good laugh, check out these few minutes of stand-up comedy about religion. Hysterical (for atheists anyway, believers maybe not so much)...
Comments
ive noticed it too. and no im not okay.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
God doesn't.....
Stalin was a Jew
stalin was a murderous bastard.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
LOL
I don't know why I find that funny.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
dude you need to go take in a PJ show,sit on a park bench and admire nature,find some warm arms of a loving woman!
go remind yourself why life CAN be WONDERFUL!!
that doesn't require any beliefs at all,just be in tune with yourself.
Ok. so you know that you are talking aout something else than anyone on this board when using the term big bang theory. Fine for you, but not relevant to the thread. Thanks for clearing things up, but, as I said, the big bang theory implies and relates directly to the moment before and to the moments afterwards, that is, the expansion. So why would you isolate the big bang theory from planck epoch? We all know what we mean when we say big bang.
I know it is supported. Every theory was supported at its time, and I support it, too. I was talking about possible future paradigm shifts because the astronomical knowledge is very limited, and you as an astronomist know that well.
Well I dont disagree. I just said we, scientists, need to be open minded for the next Einstein or Planck or Schroedinger. I said big bang theory is not set in Stone.
that too! he killed more than Hitler yet Hitler is always portrayed as the ultimate monster! yeah i know,Jews write the history books too.
and no i'm not anti-semitic just anti Zionist.
You realise you're talking to someone called Cate?
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I love sheep, nice warm furry and fluffy...!
dude for me to be in the warm arms of a loving woman i'd have to be a lesbian.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
just because i'm Christian doesn't mean i'm homophobic
i'm sorry!! too early to think clearly
how about warm arms of a loving MAN!!
So he was not a communist then? Man I dont like people going smart on little details. Of course Stalin was a communist, whats up with you? Jews are born Jews, I know that, but Stalin was a Communist, a Nonbeliever and responsible for millions of deaths.
That was my point to tell people its false to think that only religion has blood on its hands. Hitchens and Dawkins are dodging this alot, and its so obvious. The first societies without religion messed up so bad, it was worse than a nightmare. Humanity's darkest our. That is no proof for God or anything, but I'm so tired of hearing that only religion is responsible for wars and hate. Most of the times its greed and the want for more power, i guess. Does anyone here actually think George Bush went to Iraq because of God?
i know that!!!
my point was Hitler is always considered the biggest monster in history yet Stalin,a Jew,killed way more people than Hitler.
Bush is Luciferian not Christian.
yeah im working on that.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think we are finally understanding each other. The big bang is isolated from the planck epoch because our current laws of physics break down at that scale. In other words, our current laws of physics do not allow us to know the events during or directly before the planck epoch. And it was these events that caused the initial expansion.
The expansion since that event, regardless of whether you subscribe to the standard big bang model or inflationary model (or neither), is at least knowable with the current laws of physics.
I am sure that most people do, as you said, associate the term big bang with an initial cause. But although it might make me appear pig headed, stubborn, and whatever else... I will continue to try and ensure that the science on here is as accuracte as possible. Even if nobody else cares about the wording!
What is your f*cking problem? Be careful what you say. Why do you say you know he was a communist and continue to claim he was a Jew? This happended before and its dangerous.
Almost entirely mathamatical models. One day maybe. But right now the best we can hope for is some sort of grand unifying theory that makes testable predictions. For the last few decades the theory has always been just around the corner, so I think we might be waiting a while for this yet.
Perhaps its because Stalins death toll had more to do with omitting to care for his people, ie starvation, extreme poverty; where as Hitler is associated with more affirmative conduct so heinous I can't bring myself to type it.
It is a natural inclination to perceive affirmative conduct as something distinct and in this case more frightening then even the grossest of calculated ommissions.
Also that is not to say that Stalin did not actively kill people, he did, many. But not as many, not a specific group of human beings singled out by unjustifiable hatred, and generally not in the same manner. One might be no better than the other, but you can understand why they aren't treated the same.
A Brief History Of Time by Stephen Hawking
Just base this on the way its used to this day.....some getting watered down...thankfully.
Think the 20th century was a resounding success.
I believe that Man created God in his (Man's) image. This way, Man can lay Man's Ruin at God's feet and say, "God controls all". We can also claim God as our own... in order to seperate us from the rest life... to make US feel special. Man created God in his image and pinned human traits to God... to make Him angry... judgemental... condemning. This is Man's God as described to us by religion. God does not control us... religions use God to try to control us.
But, the way I see it... isn't God all loving? Tolerant of our imperfections? Accepting of our flaws? Forgiving of our sins? I just cannot believe He is just this grand narcissist that commands we love Him... because that is not love.
And it's not just Christianity... is is the nature of all religion... or most religions. To claim God as their own. It's not God that's the problem... it's all of His different fan clubs that seek exclusive rights to His love. Maybe, if just came to realize that all religions point to the same place and focus on our similarities, instead of trying to destroy because of our differences... we'd all be better off.
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm back...
No Bush didn't invade Iraq based purely on his beliefs, but he claims he talks to God and God didn't tell him not to go. That's almost irrelevant though. The fundamental issue here is that if it weren't for religion there wouldn't be such much hatred between Islam and the West. If Allah didn't inspire Muslims to loathe Western culture, e.g. women's ankles, then we wouldn't be facing such serious conflict. The "war" in Iraq stems from disputes over Holy land which dates back decades and decades, long before the actual invasion.
As for Stalin, Hitchens has never dodged this subject. Dawkins doesn't talk about it often because, unlike Hitchens, he's an evolutionary biologist and typically steers clear of discussing politics.
This is Hitchens response to the Stalin argument:
Until 1917, millions of Russians had been told for…hundreds of years that the czar is the head of the church – which he was, the Russian Orthodox Church. That the leader of the country should be something a little more than human. Not a god, but a little more. He’s not divine, but a holy father.
If you’re Josef Stalin, you shouldn’t be in the dictatorship business if you don’t know how to exploit an inheritance like that: millions of credulous, servile people.
And what does he do? Lysenko’s biology – miracles, we can have three harvests a year if we believe in Lysenko’s biology. Inquisition, heresy hunt, orthodoxy. Everything comes from the top and must be thanked for, and groveled for. A complete replication of the preceding theocracy.
For your argument to have…any force at all, you’d have to point to a society that adopted the teachings of Lucretius, Spinoza, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Albert Einstein…and then fell into famine, dictatorship, torture and genocide. And you won’t, I think, be able to point to such.
I love the last statement. Does any believer envision a society like this, run by those people, would be rife with conflict and bloodshed?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
I'm in touch with my inner monkey.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Any Christian with his/her head screwed on would agree with this entirely.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg
www.screenplaymechanic.com
2 cents