Ed on religion
otis mcfluster
Posts: 536
So at the LA 1 show, Ed was talking about this commercial he saw for a Christian Rock album, and then went on to criticize through song how they all look the same, act the same, can't think for themselves and are all sheep. Which I thought was somewhat comical.
But in retrospect it was certainly more ironic than anything.
The fact that Ed was pontificating this to the obnoxious chick to my right who kept yelling how much she loves and worships Ed, how sexy he was, telling her friend about the time she touched him, laughing at jokes that weren't really jokes, woohoo-ing and clapping things that didn't warrant applause, and shouting fuck yeah! before Ed was halfway through a sentence.
And then there was the couple to my left, overly consumed with what Ed was drinking so that they could start drinking it, so happy to see "his beard and long hair back", and wondering what kind of jeans he was wearing.
I guess it is just funny to mock one group of mindless followers to a live group of mindless followers hanging on his every word--the only difference is the messenger.
I’m always a little amazed at how stupid the majority of Pearl Jam crowds are--kind of embarrassing to be honest.
*edit--if anyone is interested in this discussion but doesn't want to sift through 30 pages of bullshit I'll make a list of relavant & erudite (according to me) posts below:
Basically don't worry about the majority of this thread, unless you are really into stimulating debates on the religious and social implications of saying "bless you" when someone sneezes.
But in retrospect it was certainly more ironic than anything.
The fact that Ed was pontificating this to the obnoxious chick to my right who kept yelling how much she loves and worships Ed, how sexy he was, telling her friend about the time she touched him, laughing at jokes that weren't really jokes, woohoo-ing and clapping things that didn't warrant applause, and shouting fuck yeah! before Ed was halfway through a sentence.
And then there was the couple to my left, overly consumed with what Ed was drinking so that they could start drinking it, so happy to see "his beard and long hair back", and wondering what kind of jeans he was wearing.
I guess it is just funny to mock one group of mindless followers to a live group of mindless followers hanging on his every word--the only difference is the messenger.
I’m always a little amazed at how stupid the majority of Pearl Jam crowds are--kind of embarrassing to be honest.
*edit--if anyone is interested in this discussion but doesn't want to sift through 30 pages of bullshit I'll make a list of relavant & erudite (according to me) posts below:
meistereder wrote:There are bound to be sheep in any group -- people who fall there and are not interested in thinking for themselves.
Ed is using the forum he has, and he does it well. But yeah, there is some irony there when it comes to the sheep who worship Ed. That said, there are many of us who respect him from a standpoint of free thought. I chose to follow this band and respect Ed as an artist and humanitarian. Not out of blindness. I think there are many like me.
rrivers wrote:I didn't think a lot of what Ed said at SC and Berkeley was particularly funny, but a lot of people around me and here thought so. I think some actually did think it was funny, which is cool, but others I think Ed could say anything and they would laugh at it.
I also didn't think the Santa Cruz song was anything great. It sounded like what he said it was, a song he wrote that day instead of going surfing. Just a bland song where I would have rather heard another cover or another Pearl Jam song.
I ran into some people at both shows that were cringe-worthy. When I walked through the crowd at Santa Cruz there were some cool people, but there was also a large frat party contigent, one of which pissed in the sink on the bathroom. It just surprises me that people who are seeing an Ed solo show in 2008 would be that immature. It's not 1992 anymore.
At Berkeley, I ran into some "my love and knowledge of Pearl Jam exceeds yours" people who are funny and sad at the same time.
But I also ran into Corduroyboy, his wife, and sold my ticket to Ray (can't remember his message pit name) at Berkeley who were very cool and made the concert more enjoyable.
KDH12 wrote:so it was LA right?
enough said
otis mcfluster wrote:I think this thread has pretty quickly digressed into a religion vs. atheist debate--by the way those never go anywhere--they usually end up with both sides being more deeply rooted in their prejudice and anger.
Atheism does not always equal epicurean indulgence and moral void.
Religion does not always equal bigotry, persecution, and conning naive impoverished people into giving away their money to phony healers.
Sometimes both do--which leads to the prejudice held by both parties..
I like to associate myself with religious and atheist people (and everyone in between) who understands that individuals can find happiness, fulfillment, and live kind lives through both religion and atheism--but that’s just me.
This country has a lot of problem for many many reasons--but to blame athiests or christians entirely, and as a group, seems a little silly.
LikeAnOcean wrote:So..
How long was Ed's hair?
potluck wrote:atleast we're not tool fans!!!!!
potluck wrote:you are talking about people who paid 60 bucks to see 1/6th of pearl jam. what did you expect.
and ive always enjoyed the folks i encounter at pj shows. i hope i never meet you.
Rusted-designs wrote:I just wanted to throw in my two cents just for fun. I think a big problem with Pearl Jam shows is the excitement level. We have all said things that sounded really stupid in a time of pure joy or excitement. Our minds don't function well in those circumstances. Recently at a show I told a guy that I saw Pearl Jam at Bridge School last year. He let me know what an idiot I was, when he told me that Eddie had cancelled. (Which I remembered after he told me and realized I was thinking of the year before.)
The excitement and stupidity only bothers me when it interferes with people enjoying the show. Like the drunk guy who sings way too loud, off key and the wrong words. He is the one who usually spills his beer on me too. Fucking dick.
muppet wrote:Late to the discussion...
You're going to get this with all bands really, this sick kind of blind hero worship. Ironically, what I'm about to say might be interpetated as that becuase I know the quote off by heartbut I think this quote by Vedder sums it up well, when replying to a fan who said she loved him: "You don't love me, you don't' even know who I am."
Or it was something like that anyway. It's just kind of sad. I like Vedder and Pearl Jam, that's why I'm here. But they shit and they stink, they're real. Which means they can fuck up and not always be perfect. And that's cool.
Crazy Breed wrote:i once heard him say "love the music not the musician"
ramblinpony wrote:I was a liberal before I was aware of Pearl Jams political views. As a liberal, Ed & I do share many of the same viewpoints. However, I make my own political decisions.
The problem is that many Pearl Jam fans think all my thoughts come from Ed, as if it is impossible for multiple people to share the same viewpoint.
In response to those of you who assume all liberals are hypocritical, don't you think that is a generalization? Just like there are many kinds of Christians, Republicans, Conservatives, and musical groups, there are indeed many types of liberals.
As far as the free speech argument goes: Pearl Jam can say and believe whatever the fuck they want. Just like we can say and believe whatever the fuck we want. The difference is, Pearl Jam has a much bigger stage. It is a stage they earned through hard work and amazing talent.
Just my 2 cents. Peace and Love.
jwillmo wrote:They always say we're just believing what we've been told blindly simply because they don't believe it. By that rationale, the only truths are completely original ones, because any others would be "blindly" following the beliefs of others. Long story short, no one has cornered the market on open-mindedness. I certainly think some of the dumbasses on this board have provent that.
Yellow Ledbelly wrote:There is no such thing as complete and total open-mindedness on any topic. Take religion, politics, homosexuality, boxers/briefs whatever and there are two sides and one person believes one thing and the other believes the opposite. One guy, an atheist, said on this board that religions are man-made thought systems, which is true, but without religion there would be no need for his thought system. Someone who doesn't believe a certain thing accuses those who do of being "sheep" while at the same time proclaiming their own open-mindedness. People may be able to educate themselves about the beiefs of other people and may be willing to accept that some people feel that way, but 99 out of 100 of those people are never open to accepting those views as a legitimate system of thought.
otis mcfluster wrote:I don't care if you are religious or atheist, as long as you are a kind human.
Really there is no difference between you and the people you seem to enjoy arguing with.
"Your an idiot, God is a fabrication of your mind, I can't believe how naive and simple minded you are."
"No your a moron, God is everywhere and created the eye ball, if you don't believe in God you have no morals, I can't believe how naive and simple minded you are."
The fact is I found it ironic and quite comical that Ed would sing "don't ever think for yourself, don't be different, don't ever ask questions" to room full of lackeys hanging on his every word, taking their political and religious queues from a songwriter in a form of idol worship not much different than the lackeys that fill the pews each Sunday.
Again, not all religious people are mindless sheep and neither were all the folks in the Wiltern, but there are large populations in both groups who are. So for one to mock the other might be more than just ironic, and borderline hypocritical.
jwillmo wrote:I definitely disagree. All the bad shit that people generally attribute to religion I think can be attributed to human nature in general. People that do atrocious things aren't "otherwise good people", what you do represents who you are. Of course atheists can be good people. If it ever got to the point where they were the huge majority, and factions of atheists starting rounding up Christians and killing them, that would no more prove the existence of God than religious people doing horrible things disproves it.
This reminds me of the South Park where Richard Dawkins and Mrs. Garrisson wipe out religion, and in the future people are fighting wars over which version of atheism is correct. Fucking brilliant.
Vedder316 wrote:I believe in and love the Lord, I don't agree with Ed on alot of things, love people at shows, not too fond of people at shows, I make up my own mind, I like to listen to others, I LOVE French vanilla ice cream with nestles quick sprinkled all over it. I don't read the posts to often but this one caught my eye, bravo to the original poster for starting it. But come on alot of these end up turning into a pissing contest about who's beliefs/opinions are right/better. People often use the large words to make them selves sound smart and put other peoples opinions/beliefs down. What ever happened to blazing one up walking hand and hand with your beautiful wife to Madison Square Garden 2 nights in a row to see your favorite band? I try and stay out of these kind of things. I think Ed sounds like a drunk fool when he rants on politics or religion some times but I still respect his opinion and love him for the good times he's provided with his music. seriously try the ice cream idea, you wont be sorry. Take care
M
otis mcfluster wrote:I don't agree with much of what you said, but you bring up an interesting thought.
My guess is that Ed is so upset with religion because he is far more concerned with the "more important crap" like war, elections, and torture. And he sees our current professed religious, christian, and "compassionate conservative" President and his cronies, who have gone out of their way to piss on human rights and bring death and destruction to a already volatile region of the world. More importantly, he was elected on the backs of the religious right and is continually supported by the religious sheep who think his chrstianity is the most important leadership quality.
He is probably so frustrated with the utter hypocrisy and belligerence of the current administration and the religious right, that he blames religion and is critical of religious people--which is a pretty fair and somewhat accurate critique.
And in my opinion, all christians should be ashamed of the hypocrisy of Bush and the things he has done under the guise and cloak of chistianity—and I know there are many who are.
Just incredibly funny that the people who put Ed in a position of influence, wealth, and power, are no more intelligent or free thinking than the people who elected and support Bush.
Jeanie wrote:I guess I just don't understand why people aren't already well versed in Ed's opinions. The man is opinionated. He's an activist. This website and many others, plenty of media over the years have provided a soapbox for Ed's opinions and you've only got to spend 2 seconds on the porch to know that people idolize the man. So none of it is new information. So I guess what I'm not getting is, given that this information is readily available, has been established fact for many years, IF a person takes issue with the views of Ed and the views of the fans but they still like the music enough to want to see the concert then how hard is it to go knowing full well what it will most likely be like and not come home bitching like a baby because things didn't turn out as preferred? I just think it's poor form.
Stephen Flow wrote:hey guys, I started reading this thread but I had to go out and buy some larger boots because the bullshit is pretty deep in there!
*goes back to page 10*
Basically don't worry about the majority of this thread, unless you are really into stimulating debates on the religious and social implications of saying "bless you" when someone sneezes.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I thought that too but most everyone around me in the 10c sections are morons. Except for Gorge Night #1 in 06. Great neighbors...but morons a few rows down.
Ed shouldn't be mocking people that are different or believe different than he does. It's extremely hypocritical. Typical liberal line though...if you don't believe what they believe, you're close minded sheep. The irony is hilarious.
Also i've met a bunch of loser pj fans at shows that are consumed with the stupidest things like the what he's wearing or drinking or whatever.
Good thread
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Oh, the irony.
Tolerance is a two-way street, there, Ed. Don't turn me into one of those "Shut up and play" douchebags. Oh wait, that would require actually playing a show here.
i too get annoyed by fans like the ones you described, but i think the snobby jammier-than-thou PJ fans are way worse.
god's eyes are closed, just like yours
Did you know in Papa New Guinea, they don't have sheep so church followers are called swine instead?
Sheep, swine, whatever, I'm not in any flock. Okay, maybe Ed's...
www.screenplaymechanic.com
As much as some of us love this band we tend to think everyone who likes them must be like "us"/me (projection = psychology 101).then you come across some retarded dick-head at a show and it dawns on you that not all PJ fans are smart or cool or like "us"/me.
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
I think Eddie, most progressive/liberal thinkers, and a lot of religious people are all open minded.
Isn't that the essence of what religion should teach--tolerance, love, and patience for your fellow man. Also couldn't the same be said of liberalism and progressive thought--extending liberty and freedom to all people regardless of gender, race, and religion.
I'll take an open minded, intelligent, free thinking, tolerant, kind person any day. And I don't care whether they get those qualities from religion, political ideology, philosophy, atheism, or music.
What I have trouble with is people who profess those qualities and attribute the source of those qualities (again be it religion, political ideology, philosophy, atheism, music, etc.) as the sole fountain from which they flow, and at the same time slam a whole cadre of people as close minded lackeys because they find those qualities elsewhere.
And I don’t think Ed was totally of base--just extremely ironic who he was preaching to. Because a lot of evangelicals deserve criticism for being close minded, but the same could be same could be said about Pearl Jam fans by an evangelical preacher, and he wouldn’t be totally of base. Yes the majority of them all look the same, talk the same, take their political queues from a musician, and follow blindly the prophet Ed--but a lot of them aren’t that way and would be a amused by Ed criticizing “mindless Christians, Buddhists, agnostics, or women” to group of PJ sheep.
Ed is using the forum he has, and he does it well. But yeah, there is some irony there when it comes to the sheep who worship Ed. That said, there are many of us who respect him from a standpoint of free thought. I chose to follow this band and respect Ed as an artist and humanitarian. Not out of blindness. I think there are many like me.
Thanks; I associate most "liberals" from idiots I saw at college and continue to see at colleges, rallies, etc. They spew out what their professors tell them and cannot think for themselves. I remember seeing an anti-abortion group on campus in the square where there were constantly liberal protestors. The anti-abortion people were lamblasted and told to shut up in angry, threatening ways when they were just trying to speak their view. The liberals got so angry and almost violent. I know this is off topic a tad, but I found it extremely ironic and have seen many similar things sense from the so-called "progressives."
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
He's not like a lot of celebrities that just come out and tell everyone to vote for someone in an interview or something and have no real substance to it.
That being said I think anytime you talk religion or politics with people its going to cause bad feelings. It kind of goes against the openness that is preached when you're essentially flipping a large chunk of the audience the bird when you bash certain religious/policital/whatever beliefs.
FWIW I did find the religion song thing funny only because those commercials are just awful...
Fine, you can have 'em. I'll hang out with the atheists who can think for themselves.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Isn't the point more that if you hold so tightly to any belief that you're unwilling to even consider another point of view, THEN you're a closed-minded sheep?
If you're too open-minded your brain might fall out.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Ive been to numerous shows.. never have i heard nonsense like that. In fact the majority of people are usually pretty cool.
Nonethesless after having ready earlier reviews of crowds I tried to make an effort to just ignore and not get annoyed by it and that worked well. A few people were tough to ignore around us with yelling, flailing around, but nothing too bad.
I thought the world...Turns out the world thought me
Darryl?
I've met tons of really cool fans in the 10C seats near me as well. I think that goes for all bands' shows.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
Good post.
I didn't think a lot of what Ed said at SC and Berkeley was particularly funny, but a lot of people around me and here thought so. I think some actually did think it was funny, which is cool, but others I think Ed could say anything and they would laugh at it.
I also didn't think the Santa Cruz song was anything great. It sounded like what he said it was, a song he wrote that day instead of going surfing. Just a bland song where I would have rather heard another cover or another Pearl Jam song.
I ran into some people at both shows that were cringe-worthy. When I walked through the crowd at Santa Cruz there were some cool people, but there was also a large frat party contigent, one of which pissed in the sink on the bathroom. It just surprises me that people who are seeing an Ed solo show in 2008 would be that immature. It's not 1992 anymore.
At Berkeley, I ran into some "my love and knowledge of Pearl Jam exceeds yours" people who are funny and sad at the same time.
But I also ran into Corduroyboy, his wife, and sold my ticket to Ray (can't remember his message pit name) at Berkeley who were very cool and made the concert more enjoyable.
Not at all. Atheists can be idiots too. But the foundation of organized religion was built on poor people being told what to do or how to think.
Although the size of each group is obviously very different, I would wager a larger percentage of atheists are far more open-minded than believers.
The myth that atheists are close-minded because they don't believe in a sky-God is exactly that... a myth. After all, are you close minded because you don't believe in all the other Gods?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Absolutely. I find that it's human nature that we all relate to those that are similar to us. And then ridicule others that are not. Just as Ed did. To me, things such as racism, gender inequality, etc etc are all just symptoms of this.
This is why I find it funny that Ed would call others close minded. He's closed minded on many things he disagrees with. Just as all humans are.
open minded to what? hedonism?
you're out of your mind and assume way too much,and you know what happens when you assume? you make an ass of u and yourself.
not that i'm saying you need to believe in God to be Intelligent or open minded,that would be just as ridiculous as your statement.
" I would wager a larger percentage of atheists are far more open-minded than believers"
I would take that wager anyday. Again..imo, there's really no such thing as being open minded. You either agree with something or you don't. Some people are just assholes about it.
I disagree. You can believe one thing but still be open to hearing about and acknowledging the other side. I don't believe in god. Who's to say I am right or wrong? I am of the opinion that I am right. But I also know there are about 5 billion people on the planet who disagree with me. I'm open to the possibility of god existing, but I don't believe it personally.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"