of course we are part of nature,everything in CREATION is related.
but i worship the creator not the creation.
really? you sit there and watch the way mankind rapes nature and you can still say we are part of nature? i disagree. mankind does everything he can to destroy what is all around him and impose himself upon what he doesn't understand and thinks he has no use for. by his actions mankind puts himself outside nature.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
wow.....what a long topic to read and after reading all of it.....the topic that stands out the greatest to me is.....religion is to blame for the world's problems.
a question for atheist:
if there was no religion....would the world would be one happy community? all people would like each other? all natural resourses would be plentiful?
and for conversational purposes....let us imagine religion is now extinct and all that is left is the atheist belief. within all of the atheist, many forms of atheism will form and then there will be discussion of why "my disbelief is more believable than your disbelief."
i honestly try my best to enjoy and find interesting aspects in all people i encounter and cross paths with....and i happen to like Jesus and his teachings. many people claim to be christians, that is easy to do.
on a more serious note.....that joel olsteen guy reminds me of the burger king.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
a question for atheist:
if there was no religion....would the world would be one happy community? all people would like each other? all natural resourses would be plentiful?
no. the world would descend into turmoil. religion is the basis and the glue that holds society together, i don't care if youre an atheist(like me) or a believer. i have been an atheist since i was 11 years old. nothing i have seen since then has made me question my atheism. i have never doubted.
however, i fully acknowledge that the values i have, have a basis in religion.
oh and natural resources have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
one more thought....as a mathematician, it is difficult for my simple mind to calculate the probability of all variables multiplied to the nth term and yield the end product of life.
i have five dice in front of me; 4-sided, 6-sided, 8-sided, 10-sided, and 20-sided, and i still can not select the correct outcome after i roll each dice once.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
no. the world would descend into turmoil. religion is the basis and the glue that holds society together, i don't care if youre an atheist(like me) or a believer. i have been an atheist since i was 11 years old. nothing i have seen since then has made me question my atheism. i have never doubted.
however, i fully acknowledge that the values i have, have a basis in religion.
oh and natural resources have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
thanks for the answer. i would argue that natural resourses have much to do with religion. many of my friends who are atheists, claim all wars are based on religion. i would say most wars are based on resources being depleted and the need to acquire more resources. i hope that made sense.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
How did this go from the blind sheep fans of Eddie Vedder to a question of human origins? I really dont mind, but if you only look at the first post and the last post, it makes this a very strange conversation. Do you guys actually consider yourselves philosophers, biologists, and preachers?
thanks for the answer. i would argue that natural resourses have much to do with religion. many of my friends who are atheists, claim all wars are based on religion. i would say most wars are based on resources being depleted and the need to acquire more resources. i hope that made sense.
please be my guest argue all you like. most wars are based on greed.
atheists can be a bit delusion at times. they so hate religion that it clouds their judgement.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
really? you sit there and watch the way mankind rapes nature and you can still say we are part of nature? i disagree. mankind does everything he can to destroy what is all around him and impose himself upon what he doesn't understand and thinks he has no use for. by his actions mankind puts himself outside nature.
just because there are politicians in league with corporations that rape our planet doesn't mean "mankind" rapes nature.fucking Bush bombs Iraq into oblivion(something i am strongly against) yet they say "we" bomb Iraq!BULLSHIT don't put me in that category!
i think a hell of a lot more ordinary people care about the environment but unfortunately we have a body elect who are motivated by GREED not caring.
like Zach De La Rocha said "we need to take the power back!!"
please be my guest argue all you like. most wars are based on greed.
atheists can be a bit delusion at times. they so hate religion that it clouds their judgement.
i agree....war is based on the greed of natural reasourses.
interesting comment on atheists hating religion. i personnally have not encountered this level of hate and i can say if this hate is prevelant in my discussion with anyone;atheists, christians, or any group..i simply end the discussion.
i do not get a sense of hate while i type to you.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
please be my guest argue all you like. most wars are based on greed.
atheists can be a bit delusion at times. they so hate religion that it clouds their judgement.
you are exactly right!! (in the inner circle) war is always about money and power and the idiots are manipulated by all the other shit which is just a front for the truth.
There are so many jacked up thoughts in this thread.
I don't believe in a God Figure. I think I'm nice, fairly open minded, don't berate others, open doors for old ladies. I don't think I'm lost in my ways, I probably act more religious than people who are followers of religion. Like it was said earlier in this thread. Take away religion and there is good and there is evil. I think most likely when the whole concept of heaven and hell was created it really meant good=heaven, bad=hell. Organized religion complicates things and creates this war between believers and non-believers.
Thread integrity: Yeah Ed is hypocritical, and most Pearl Jam fans at the shows I'd never hang out with ever in real life. Although the good PJ fans I've met are friends for life. If you're the kind of person who screams during the Symphony, you probably shouldn't see Ed solo
you are exactly right!! (in the inner circle) war is always about money and power and the idiots are manipulated by all the other shit which is just a front for the truth.
so... you're agreeing with me now?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
There are so many jacked up thoughts in this thread.
I don't believe in a God Figure. I think I'm nice, fairly open minded, don't berate others, open doors for old ladies. I don't think I'm lost in my ways, I probably act more religious than people who are followers of religion. Like it was said earlier in this thread. Take away religion and there is good and there is evil. I think most likely when the whole concept of heaven and hell was created it really meant good=heaven, bad=hell. Organized religion complicates things and creates this war between believers and non-believers.
Thread integrity: Yeah Ed is hypocritical, and most Pearl Jam fans at the shows I'd never hang out with ever in real life. Although the good PJ fans I've met are friends for life. If you're the kind of person who screams during the Symphony, you probably shouldn't see Ed solo
i like your comment on pj fans and hanging out with them.
at the few shows i go to i take the time to introduce myself, when the situation presents itself, as my birth name and screen name. the interesting thing is....few reciprocate. so i suppose some on here like having the computer personality and their life personality kept seperate, for whatever reason.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
if you knew what you talk about, you would not say stuff like attacking the idea of the big bang is ridiculous. even among scientists the big bang is being discussed. For example the question on how matter started to move, so the chain reaction could be initiated. Scientists have no clue. They speculate, of course, but They know what it's worth. The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe .
Big Bang theory doesnt explain life or the mind, anyway. And no real scientist ever wanted or tried to explain the big questions, cuz there are just no answers.: why is something there and not nothing. How came life into existancee. Why do humans wonder about stuff. what is the soul. what is the meaning of life. Most nobel prize winners were believers, so nobody tell me that reason is on the atheist side.
As to your question. I dont think 'science is wrong'. But it is so successfull, that people believe it can answer anything some day. Its not gonna happen. Reality is not that easy. It is absurd and paradox. maybe 'knowledge is a dream'.
Funny... I didn't remember asking a question.
I also did not say that attacking the big bang theory is ridiculous- I actually said that if you call the theory ridiculous without understanding the theory, or the evidence that supports it, then you are just giving an uneducated opinion. Unless you can think of another name for expresing something's worth without actually understanding it?
And on that topic of understanding it, let's clear up a few of your misconceptions:
The big bang does not attempt to explain how spacetime, or the matter contained within it began expanding. Instead the theory explains occurences after the planck epoch, by which stage the expansion had already occured. So please don't attack a theory for not explaining something that it is not meant to explain.
And do you expect myself, or any other like minded person to be surprised that the theory is still being discussed? I am sure that even the president of the big bang fan club would be willing to admit that the theory is far from perfect. Nobody claims that, so of course it is still being discussed.
A scientific theory or model is only as good as its ability to explain observations. The big bang theory originated from Edwin Hubble's observations that light from galaxies is red shifted, and thus the objects are moving away from us. And that the further away an object is, the faster it is moving. This is exactly what happens in an explosion- the outer objects move faster than the inner objects.
And the big bang theory made predictions, which allowed scientists to test how accurate a picture of the universe it presented. Specifically, it predicted ratios of different types of helium, lithium and deuterium to hydrogen. The relative abundances of these elemets agree with the predictions of the theory.
The big bang also predicted 'background radiation' of a specific temperature coming from all parts of the sky. Not only has this radiation been detected, and not only was the temperature of the radiation almost exactly what the theory predicted, and not only have the density fluctuations been detected that were also predicted, but you can watch it when you turn on your tv (approx. 25% of static on tv is background radiation from the big bang).
So please don't say that, 'The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe'. Be critical of the theory by all means, but don't do that and in the same paragraph demonstrate that you actually don't understand the very thing you are denouncing.
Believe what you want- just don't butcher the science.
I dont understand your first question. Dont think all Christians are stupid. I was talking about abstract terms. Gravity is a fact like the apple false down, so...
I really like your second part, though! This is a great thought, and could be made into a movie, a atheist movie, of course. About the boredom when all questions are answered. An apocalyptic sci fi movie, were people become animals again maybe, out of boredom, or... I dont know. Or like you said, they would evolve then. Great idea.
the Christian point on this goes like this: Here, there is no absolute knowledge. We get that after we died and will watch the truth, as it is. when we are with God, no questions will be unanswered. We will watch the truth.
Okay, if we go with the Christian point of no absolute knowledge... can you concede that science allows us to understand our world to a greater extent than would be possible if we stopped questioning things? That maybe part of whatever plan your creator had for us included bettering ourselves with our thirst for knowledge?:)
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I also did not say that attacking the big bang theory is ridiculous- I actually said that if you call the theory ridiculous without understanding the theory, or the evidence that supports it, then you are just giving an uneducated opinion. Unless you can think of another name for expresing something's worth without actually understanding it?
And on that topic of understanding it, let's clear up a few of your misconceptions:
The big bang does not attempt to explain how spacetime, or the matter contained within it began expanding. Instead the theory explains occurences after the planck epoch, by which stage the expansion had already occured. So please don't attack a theory for not explaining something that it is not meant to explain.
And do you expect myself, or any other like minded person to be surprised that the theory is still being discussed? I am sure that even the president of the big bang fan club would be willing to admit that the theory is far from perfect. Nobody claims that, so of course it is still being discussed.
A scientific theory or model is only as good as its ability to explain observations. The big bang theory originated from Edwin Hubble's observations that light from galaxies is red shifted, and thus the objects are moving away from us. And that the further away an object is, the faster it is moving. This is exactly what happens in an explosion- the outer objects move faster than the inner objects.
And the big bang theory made predictions, which allowed scientists to test how accurate a picture of the universe it presented. Specifically, it predicted ratios of different types of helium, lithium and deuterium to hydrogen. The relative abundances of these elemets agree with the predictions of the theory.
The big bang also predicted 'background radiation' of a specific temperature coming from all parts of the sky. Not only has this radiation been detected, and not only was the temperature of the radiation almost exactly what the theory predicted, and not only have the density fluctuations been detected that were also predicted, but you can watch it when you turn on your tv (approx. 25% of static on tv is background radiation from the big bang).
So please don't say that, 'The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe'. Be critical of the theory by all means, but don't do that and in the same paragraph demonstrate that you actually don't understand the very thing you are denouncing.
Believe what you want- just don't butcher the science.
so we've gone from Ed slagging christian bands... to the science behind the big bang gotta love this place.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
so we've gone from Ed slagging christian bands... to the science behind the big bang gotta love this place.
well ed's as imperfect as the rest of us and who really gives a toss what he says? im old enough and smart enough to draw my own conclusions and for the most part id bet that nothing ed says predates any thought ive ever had. just shut up and sing boy.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
so long as you dont try and bless me we'll be fine.
so this is how i see it...if one day we are having a dinner together and you sneeze, i will say "bless you." i mean, i would not be offended if the inverse were true and you said something like.."damn you"....i would find that quite funny.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
please i ask you not to bless me. me sneezing is not my soul trying to escape.
actually it comes from when the "plague" was making it's rounds and when you sneezed people thought you may be coming down with the plague and they would say "God bless you" as in "i hope God keeps you from getting sick"
actually it comes from when the "plague" was making it's rounds and when you sneezed people thought you may be coming down with the plague and they would say "God bless you" as in "i hope God keeps you from getting sick"
what can i say... i watch too much simpsons.
whatever its origins, id rather not be blessed.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
please i ask you not to bless me. me sneezing is not my soul trying to escape.
What if you just say "Bless you" and not "God bless you" ??
I do it on instinct... I try not to because I suppose saying it everytime loses its meaning anyway... but my mind just doesnt listen and the sound of a sneeze just lets it out of my mouth without the slightest chance to think about it.
Comments
really? you sit there and watch the way mankind rapes nature and you can still say we are part of nature? i disagree. mankind does everything he can to destroy what is all around him and impose himself upon what he doesn't understand and thinks he has no use for. by his actions mankind puts himself outside nature.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
a question for atheist:
if there was no religion....would the world would be one happy community? all people would like each other? all natural resourses would be plentiful?
and for conversational purposes....let us imagine religion is now extinct and all that is left is the atheist belief. within all of the atheist, many forms of atheism will form and then there will be discussion of why "my disbelief is more believable than your disbelief."
i honestly try my best to enjoy and find interesting aspects in all people i encounter and cross paths with....and i happen to like Jesus and his teachings. many people claim to be christians, that is easy to do.
on a more serious note.....that joel olsteen guy reminds me of the burger king.
no. the world would descend into turmoil. religion is the basis and the glue that holds society together, i don't care if youre an atheist(like me) or a believer. i have been an atheist since i was 11 years old. nothing i have seen since then has made me question my atheism. i have never doubted.
however, i fully acknowledge that the values i have, have a basis in religion.
oh and natural resources have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i have five dice in front of me; 4-sided, 6-sided, 8-sided, 10-sided, and 20-sided, and i still can not select the correct outcome after i roll each dice once.
please be my guest argue all you like.
atheists can be a bit delusion at times. they so hate religion that it clouds their judgement.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
just because there are politicians in league with corporations that rape our planet doesn't mean "mankind" rapes nature.fucking Bush bombs Iraq into oblivion(something i am strongly against) yet they say "we" bomb Iraq!BULLSHIT don't put me in that category!
i think a hell of a lot more ordinary people care about the environment but unfortunately we have a body elect who are motivated by GREED not caring.
like Zach De La Rocha said "we need to take the power back!!"
interesting comment on atheists hating religion. i personnally have not encountered this level of hate and i can say if this hate is prevelant in my discussion with anyone;atheists, christians, or any group..i simply end the discussion.
i do not get a sense of hate while i type to you.
you are exactly right!! (in the inner circle) war is always about money and power and the idiots are manipulated by all the other shit which is just a front for the truth.
There are so many jacked up thoughts in this thread.
I don't believe in a God Figure. I think I'm nice, fairly open minded, don't berate others, open doors for old ladies. I don't think I'm lost in my ways, I probably act more religious than people who are followers of religion. Like it was said earlier in this thread. Take away religion and there is good and there is evil. I think most likely when the whole concept of heaven and hell was created it really meant good=heaven, bad=hell. Organized religion complicates things and creates this war between believers and non-believers.
Thread integrity: Yeah Ed is hypocritical, and most Pearl Jam fans at the shows I'd never hang out with ever in real life. Although the good PJ fans I've met are friends for life. If you're the kind of person who screams during the Symphony, you probably shouldn't see Ed solo
so... you're agreeing with me now?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
at the few shows i go to i take the time to introduce myself, when the situation presents itself, as my birth name and screen name. the interesting thing is....few reciprocate. so i suppose some on here like having the computer personality and their life personality kept seperate, for whatever reason.
Funny... I didn't remember asking a question.
I also did not say that attacking the big bang theory is ridiculous- I actually said that if you call the theory ridiculous without understanding the theory, or the evidence that supports it, then you are just giving an uneducated opinion. Unless you can think of another name for expresing something's worth without actually understanding it?
And on that topic of understanding it, let's clear up a few of your misconceptions:
The big bang does not attempt to explain how spacetime, or the matter contained within it began expanding. Instead the theory explains occurences after the planck epoch, by which stage the expansion had already occured. So please don't attack a theory for not explaining something that it is not meant to explain.
And do you expect myself, or any other like minded person to be surprised that the theory is still being discussed? I am sure that even the president of the big bang fan club would be willing to admit that the theory is far from perfect. Nobody claims that, so of course it is still being discussed.
A scientific theory or model is only as good as its ability to explain observations. The big bang theory originated from Edwin Hubble's observations that light from galaxies is red shifted, and thus the objects are moving away from us. And that the further away an object is, the faster it is moving. This is exactly what happens in an explosion- the outer objects move faster than the inner objects.
And the big bang theory made predictions, which allowed scientists to test how accurate a picture of the universe it presented. Specifically, it predicted ratios of different types of helium, lithium and deuterium to hydrogen. The relative abundances of these elemets agree with the predictions of the theory.
The big bang also predicted 'background radiation' of a specific temperature coming from all parts of the sky. Not only has this radiation been detected, and not only was the temperature of the radiation almost exactly what the theory predicted, and not only have the density fluctuations been detected that were also predicted, but you can watch it when you turn on your tv (approx. 25% of static on tv is background radiation from the big bang).
So please don't say that, 'The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe'. Be critical of the theory by all means, but don't do that and in the same paragraph demonstrate that you actually don't understand the very thing you are denouncing.
Believe what you want- just don't butcher the science.
Okay, if we go with the Christian point of no absolute knowledge... can you concede that science allows us to understand our world to a greater extent than would be possible if we stopped questioning things? That maybe part of whatever plan your creator had for us included bettering ourselves with our thirst for knowledge?:)
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i admit though.....if ed had slagged hindu or muslim bands, there would be no topic discussed.
for the record and thread integrity....i do not enjoy christian music, but gospel bluegrass is entertaining.
no more shows
well ed's as imperfect as the rest of us and who really gives a toss what he says? im old enough and smart enough to draw my own conclusions and for the most part id bet that nothing ed says predates any thought ive ever had. just shut up and sing boy.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
about the origins and reasons for war,not on religion.
we can think differently on religion and still be friends,can't we?
.
so long as you dont try and bless me we'll be fine.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i was going to say "only if you sneeze" but someone beat me to it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
actually it comes from when the "plague" was making it's rounds and when you sneezed people thought you may be coming down with the plague and they would say "God bless you" as in "i hope God keeps you from getting sick"
what can i say... i watch too much simpsons.
whatever its origins, id rather not be blessed.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I do it on instinct... I try not to because I suppose saying it everytime loses its meaning anyway... but my mind just doesnt listen and the sound of a sneeze just lets it out of my mouth without the slightest chance to think about it.