Go back a couple of pages and learn the real definition of "theory" when it applies to science. Do you believe in the theory of gravity? The theory of relativity? In science, theory pretty much means fact.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
I believe in and love the Lord, I don't agree with Ed on alot of things, love people at shows, not too fond of people at shows, I make up my own mind, I like to listen to others, I LOVE French vanilla ice cream with nestles quick sprinkled all over it. I don't read the posts to often but this one caught my eye, bravo to the original poster for starting it. But come on alot of these end up turning into a pissing contest about who's beliefs/opinions are right/better. People often use the large words to make them selves sound smart and put other peoples opinions/beliefs down. What ever happened to blazing one up walking hand and hand with your beautiful wife to Madison Square Garden 2 nights in a row to see your favorite band? I try and stay out of these kind of things. I think Ed sounds like a drunk fool when he rants on politics or religion some times but I still respect his opinion and love him for the good times he's provided with his music. seriously try the ice cream idea, you wont be sorry. Take care
M
Many many wonderful shows, since day one.
Love ya Punkinfur
I believe in and love the Lord, I don't agree with Ed on alot of things, love people at shows, not too fond of people at shows, I make up my own mind, I like to listen to others, I LOVE French vanilla ice cream with nestles quick sprinkled all over it. I don't read the posts to often but this one caught my eye, bravo to the original poster for starting it. But come on alot of these end up turning into a pissing contest about who's beliefs/opinions are right/better. People often use the large words to make them selves sound smart and put other peoples opinions/beliefs down. What ever happened to blazing one up walking hand and hand with your beautiful wife to Madison Square Garden 2 nights in a row to see your favorite band? I try and stay out of these kind of things. I think Ed sounds like a drunk fool when he rants on politics or religion some times but I still respect his opinion and love him for the good times he's provided with his music. seriously try the ice cream idea, you wont be sorry. Take care
M
Great post.
The end.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
The funny part of night one for me was the new yorker with his thick accent sitting behind me saying "god bless you man, god bless you eddie....I can now die happily" after eddie mentioned Bruce Springsteen!
"God Blessing" Eddie, after he spent that whole speech goofing on the Religious commercial.
I used to be a Christian - doesn't pass the laugh test anymore. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of great people whe are Christian...and lots who are not. "Faith" is not a reason to believe/relevent argument, it's an argument for those who have nothing else to argue - "Just believe because some guys 6,000 years ago said it is so" - doesnt' work. I believe that you believe and if it makes you feel better, I won't try to change you, but don't try to change me and please stop using religion ("You" being the plural you) to make public policy.
Me, I don't need "that" anymore to be truly happy. I like to live in the "Present Tense" :-). Oh, "I hope you'll join us" - line made famous by the man who said, "Imagine there's no religion, it's easy if you try". He's right.
Religion does not exist so everyone can "be truly happy". It exists because God exists. It exists because the human is created in a way, that he is searching for God, which is the meaning of life. I know what atheists answer to that. Believers are all dumb, cuz life is meaningless, everyone has to give it a meaning for themselves... but to me this is just another form of hybris....( and it is not modern either, look at the Babylon Story in the bible... Actually, all arguments against religion being raised here and by hitchens and dawkins are well known to Theologians and they answered them in another way. Its not like Hitchens tells us anything new.)
Oh and if you believe in God, the life "in the present Tense" gets a quality, nonbelievers cant even dream of. imagine you believe God is love, and God is everywhere, this stuff can get you high, man. Plus you always have someone to talk to and so on and so on. It's almost to good to be true, that is where the atheist argument comes in...
Religion does not exist so everyone can "be truly happy". It exists because God exists. It exists because the human is created in a way, that he is searching for God, which is the meaning of life.
Why... because *you* say so? Because your church tells you so? Cause you just feel it and know?
I haven't read this thread... but that is amazingly arrogant.
So if you don't agree and don't believe... you won't be saved or something like that?
You may get "high" off this stuff, but that doesn't make it true.
Religion is one thing, but Creationism makes me so mad I could spit. Teaching it to kids as fact, or even an alternative to evolution, is child abuse. Plain and simple. In fact, Creationists fall one step short of actually sticking their dicks in kids' ears. *spit*
Sorry for this rant, but a friend just sent me the video and it made me angry. Not to mention a few renowned scientists got duped into appearing in the asinine docu-bollocks "Expelled."
Evil Rabbit, I watched the video and I feel sorry for you getting emotional about THAT. If you want to get closer to a truth, do not listen or watch popular half scientific media, go to a university library and ask for educated books, please. It is for your own good. Most of broadcasting media is full of half-knowledge and even BS. I am not trying to convert you, there are better atheist and scientific standpoints, who do not make you seem like a stupid person among intellectuals when quoting them.
Evil Rabbit, I watched the video and I feel sorry for you getting emotional about THAT. If you want to get closer to a truth, do not listen or watch popular half scientific media, go to a university library and ask for educated books, please. It is for your own good. Most of broadcasting media is full of half-knowledge and even BS. I am not trying to convert you, there are better atheist and scientific standpoints, who do not make you seem like a stupid person among intellectuals when quoting them.
Creationism makes me angry, not just that particular clip. I just happened to receive it today from a friend and it reminded me how much I hate creationism and intelligent design. Yes, that's right, I said hate. I don't hate many things, but I hate creationism. It's stupid. Idiotic. Childish. You might as well believe in Frodo. Jar-jar fucking binks. It's all bullshit.
Every credible scientist laughs at creationism.
The legal system laughs at it.
Anyone with a brain laughs at it.
Wait, did I say laugh? I meant weep with sadness.
Step outside your church, put down the Bible, tell the pastor to quit calling your cell phone because you're not attracted to guys, and read a science book. You're trying to sound smart by telling me to go to a university when you support the most asinine idea since paper buckets. You telling me to go read a book? Ha! I'm laughing. Or am I crying?
Evolve. Please.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
And I tried to end this thread nicely after Vedder316's post. (Which was a nice compromise for both sides.) Then you go and bait me... damn you! I hope you get a splinter in your ass on Sunday morning.
Are you a screenwriter?
www.screenplaymechanic.com
Why... because *you* say so? Because your church tells you so? Cause you just feel it and know?
I haven't read this thread... but that is amazingly arrogant.
So if you don't agree and don't believe... you won't be saved or something like that?
You may get "high" off this stuff, but that doesn't make it true.
I'm sorry if I came across arrogant, I am not. I thought it was clear that I speak only for myself. So I add an IMO, and that should clear it up, ok?
"So if you don't agree and don't believe... you won't be saved or something like that?"
I'm not sure about that, I dont think so. But I always wonder why atheist still discuss theology. Why they still want to prove their point. Its like in this Bright Eyes song. :
And if you swear that there's no truth and who cares
How come you say it like you're right?
Creationism makes me angry, not just that particular clip. I just happened to receive it today from a friend and it reminded me how much I hate creationism and intelligent design. Yes, that's right, I said hate. I don't hate many things, but I hate creationism. It's stupid. Idiotic. Childish. You might as well believe in Frodo. Jar-jar fucking binks. It's all bullshit.
Every credible scientist laughs at creationism.
The legal system laughs at it.
Anyone with a brain laughs at it.
Wait, did I say laugh? I meant weep with sadness.
Step outside your church, put down the Bible, tell the pastor to quit calling your cell phone because you're not attracted to guys, and read a science book. You're trying to sound smart by telling me to go to a university when you support the most asinine idea since paper buckets. You telling me to go read a book? Ha! I'm laughing. Or am I crying?
Evolve. Please.
Hey Evil Rabbit, you are not being nice again. I am not a creationist, I think it is stupid. I trust science to a certain extend and I know a little bit about it.
There are academics out there who think, and always have thought about the problems we are discussing here, and these books are more informative and conclusive than anything on youtube or bestelleing books. (except those online lectures)... it was just a tip, cuz I used to get confused online when I was younger. Now I read the great books, and my mind is a lot calmer. I dont want to patronize or something.
There is every opinion out there, but if you want to know something properly, you have to enter the academic discourse.
I' a fan of PJ, BUT,,,,I am not the typical fan I guess. If Vedder says something don' t agree with, I WILL call him to the carpet, and I think ole Vedder needs to pick on MORE IMPORTANT CRAP than "Christian Bands". We have a government who believes that torture is acceptible, and a society that thinks it's ok to "Fleece" the common man, and Eddie Vedder decides the best he can do is to diss Christian rock bands?
Mr. Vedder, we have an important election at hand this year, maybe you have heard of it,,,,the "PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" thingy???
I just think that picking on somthing like "christian rock bands", when so much is at stake this year is trivial, a little mean spirited, and foolish.
I might get some mean spirited posts sent my way over this but I don' t care, I'M PISSED MR. VEDDER!
I really couldn't care less about the beliefs of anybody on here when it comes to god... However I am very fond of the scientific method, have a (if you will excuse my arrogance) better than average understanding of it and feel that, regardless of your viewpoints, the science presented here should at least be accurate.
Evolution is a theory supported by a substantial and ever growing body of evidence. Study of shared common characteristics that predicted particular evolutionary relationships has now been supported by genetic analysis that gives further weight to these ideas. Investigation of the fossil record is providing more specimens that are supporting the evolutionary relationships that were hypothesised a long time ago. The 'god of the gaps' that survives in the evolutionary links not yet understood is growing smaller every day.
It is of course possible that this evidence is coincidence and nothing more, but the huge abundance and diversity of evidence makes it unlikely, and the more evidence that is collected, the smaller the probability that the basic principles of evolution are incorrect.
Evolution is not a theory that explains the origins of life, nor does the evidence suggest in any way that humans evolved from apes or bananas- we simply share a common ancestor.
Any argument that claims that life is too complicated to evolve so therefore god exists, is a bad argument because it simply transfers the problem of origin to a creator, and in the process makes the problem more complicated, (because a creator is inherently more complex than the created).
And attacking the idea of the big bang as ridiculous without actually taking the effort to understand what the theory proposes, nor the evidence supporting it, is fine, but is really just an uneducated opinion.
I am not saying that anybody's belief in god is absurd- I can see why people do hold that belief, although I do not. I am simply saying don't try to convince others by arguing that the science is wrong, unless you are willing to explain just how it is wrong...
I really couldn't care less about the beliefs of anybody on here when it comes to god... However I am very fond of the scientific method, have a (if you will excuse my arrogance) better than average understanding of it and feel that, regardless of your viewpoints, the science presented here should at least be accurate.
Evolution is a theory supported by a substantial and ever growing body of evidence. Study of shared common characteristics that predicted particular evolutionary relationships has now been supported by genetic analysis that gives further weight to these ideas. Investigation of the fossil record is providing more specimens that are supporting the evolutionary relationships that were hypothesised a long time ago. The 'god of the gaps' that survives in the evolutionary links not yet understood is growing smaller every day.
It is of course possible that this evidence is coincidence and nothing more, but the huge abundance and diversity of evidence makes it unlikely, and the more evidence that is collected, the smaller the probability that the basic principles of evolution are incorrect.
Evolution is not a theory that explains the origins of life, nor does the evidence suggest in any way that humans evolved from apes or bananas- we simply share a common ancestor.
Any argument that claims that life is too complicated to evolve so therefore god exists, is a bad argument because it simply transfers the problem of origin to a creator, and in the process makes the problem more complicated, (because a creator is inherently more complex than the created).
And attacking the idea of the big bang as ridiculous without actually taking the effort to understand what the theory proposes, nor the evidence supporting it, is fine, but is really just an uneducated opinion.
I am not saying that anybody's belief in god is absurd- I can see why people do hold that belief, although I do not. I am simply saying don't try to convince others by arguing that the science is wrong, unless you are willing to explain just how it is wrong...
if you knew what you talk about, you would not say stuff like attacking the idea of the big bang is ridiculous. even among scientists the big bang is being discussed. For example the question on how matter started to move, so the chain reaction could be initiated. Scientists have no clue. They speculate, of course, but They know what it's worth. The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe .
Big Bang theory doesnt explain life or the mind, anyway. And no real scientist ever wanted or tried to explain the big questions, cuz there are just no answers.: why is something there and not nothing. How came life into existancee. Why do humans wonder about stuff. what is the soul. what is the meaning of life. Most nobel prize winners were believers, so nobody tell me that reason is on the atheist side.
As to your question. I dont think 'science is wrong'. But it is so successfull, that people believe it can answer anything some day. Its not gonna happen. Reality is not that easy. It is absurd and paradox. maybe 'knowledge is a dream'.
if you knew what you talk about, you would not say stuff like attacking the idea of the big bang is ridiculous. even among scientists the big bang is being discussed. For example the question on how matter started to move, so the chain reaction could be initiated. Scientists have no clue. They speculate, of course, but They know what it's worth. The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe .
Big Bang theory doesnt explain life or the mind, anyway. And no real scientist ever wanted or tried to explain the big questions, cuz there are just no answers.: why is something there and not nothing. How came life into existancee. Why do humans wonder about stuff. what is the soul. what is the meaning of life. Most nobel prize winners were believers, so nobody tell me that reason is on the atheist side.
As to your question. I dont think 'science is wrong'. But it is so successfull, that people believe it can answer anything some day. Its not gonna happen. Reality is not that easy. It is absurd and paradox. maybe 'knowledge is a dream'.
The whole point of science is to discover the answer to things that were considered unanswerable. If the whole world stops investigating, and just goes with the easy catch-all answer, we'll never grow. Just because science hasn't explained the big questions yet doesn't mean there isn't a scientific answer.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
every one is an individual and you can't group people together solely based on religion or favorite band. I consider myself a Christian but most Christians don't really even know what it means to be a Christian.they practice Roman catholicism which is essentially paganism..
And what do YOU practice, Evangelicalism??
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
The whole point of science is to discover the answer to things that were considered unanswerable. If the whole world stops investigating, and just goes with the easy catch-all answer, we'll never grow. Just because science hasn't explained the big questions yet doesn't mean there isn't a scientific answer.
outch! Dont believe that, please. If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human. I cant convince you here, but talk to a scientist about answering all question. Dont trust science to do that for you. There are and always were and will be questions, that every individual should aks themselves and cannot be delegated to science. The problem with some western humans today is, they trust science and think they will discover everything. It is not gonna happen, and no scientist argues that.
meaning. mind. love. god. are all apstract terms. they cant be located. It is the job of philosophy or theology to talk about them.
outch! Dont believe that, please. If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human. I cant convince you here, but talk to a scientist about answering all question. Dont trust science to do that for you. There are and always were and will be questions, that every individual should aks themself and cannot delegate them to science. The problem with some western humans today is, they trust science and think they will discover everything. It is not gonna happen, and no scientist argues that.
So have you asked yourself how gravity works recently? Or do you trust science with that since it was answered so long ago?:)
"If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human"? Are you saying we'd evolve?;)
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
So have you asked yourself how gravity works recently? Or do you trust science with that since it was answered so long ago?:)
"If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human"? Are you saying we'd evolve?;)
I dont understand your first question. Dont think all Christians are stupid. I was talking about abstract terms. Gravity is a fact like the apple false down, so...
I really like your second part, though! This is a great thought, and could be made into a movie, a atheist movie, of course. About the boredom when all questions are answered. An apocalyptic sci fi movie, were people become animals again maybe, out of boredom, or... I dont know. Or like you said, they would evolve then. Great idea.
the Christian point on this goes like this: Here, there is no absolute knowledge. We get that after we died and will watch the truth, as it is. when we are with God, no questions will be unanswered. We will watch the truth.
Comments
Go back a couple of pages and learn the real definition of "theory" when it applies to science. Do you believe in the theory of gravity? The theory of relativity? In science, theory pretty much means fact.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
M
Love ya Punkinfur
Great post.
The end.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
"God Blessing" Eddie, after he spent that whole speech goofing on the Religious commercial.
EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
Religion does not exist so everyone can "be truly happy". It exists because God exists. It exists because the human is created in a way, that he is searching for God, which is the meaning of life. I know what atheists answer to that. Believers are all dumb, cuz life is meaningless, everyone has to give it a meaning for themselves... but to me this is just another form of hybris....( and it is not modern either, look at the Babylon Story in the bible... Actually, all arguments against religion being raised here and by hitchens and dawkins are well known to Theologians and they answered them in another way. Its not like Hitchens tells us anything new.)
Oh and if you believe in God, the life "in the present Tense" gets a quality, nonbelievers cant even dream of. imagine you believe God is love, and God is everywhere, this stuff can get you high, man. Plus you always have someone to talk to and so on and so on. It's almost to good to be true, that is where the atheist argument comes in...
Why... because *you* say so? Because your church tells you so? Cause you just feel it and know?
I haven't read this thread... but that is amazingly arrogant.
So if you don't agree and don't believe... you won't be saved or something like that?
You may get "high" off this stuff, but that doesn't make it true.
Evil Rabbit, I watched the video and I feel sorry for you getting emotional about THAT. If you want to get closer to a truth, do not listen or watch popular half scientific media, go to a university library and ask for educated books, please. It is for your own good. Most of broadcasting media is full of half-knowledge and even BS. I am not trying to convert you, there are better atheist and scientific standpoints, who do not make you seem like a stupid person among intellectuals when quoting them.
Creationism makes me angry, not just that particular clip. I just happened to receive it today from a friend and it reminded me how much I hate creationism and intelligent design. Yes, that's right, I said hate. I don't hate many things, but I hate creationism. It's stupid. Idiotic. Childish. You might as well believe in Frodo. Jar-jar fucking binks. It's all bullshit.
Every credible scientist laughs at creationism.
The legal system laughs at it.
Anyone with a brain laughs at it.
Wait, did I say laugh? I meant weep with sadness.
Step outside your church, put down the Bible, tell the pastor to quit calling your cell phone because you're not attracted to guys, and read a science book. You're trying to sound smart by telling me to go to a university when you support the most asinine idea since paper buckets. You telling me to go read a book? Ha! I'm laughing. Or am I crying?
Evolve. Please.
www.screenplaymechanic.com
www.screenplaymechanic.com
I'm sorry if I came across arrogant, I am not. I thought it was clear that I speak only for myself. So I add an IMO, and that should clear it up, ok?
"So if you don't agree and don't believe... you won't be saved or something like that?"
I'm not sure about that, I dont think so. But I always wonder why atheist still discuss theology. Why they still want to prove their point. Its like in this Bright Eyes song. :
And if you swear that there's no truth and who cares
How come you say it like you're right?
Hey Evil Rabbit, you are not being nice again. I am not a creationist, I think it is stupid. I trust science to a certain extend and I know a little bit about it.
There are academics out there who think, and always have thought about the problems we are discussing here, and these books are more informative and conclusive than anything on youtube or bestelleing books. (except those online lectures)... it was just a tip, cuz I used to get confused online when I was younger. Now I read the great books, and my mind is a lot calmer. I dont want to patronize or something.
There is every opinion out there, but if you want to know something properly, you have to enter the academic discourse.
Mr. Vedder, we have an important election at hand this year, maybe you have heard of it,,,,the "PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" thingy???
I just think that picking on somthing like "christian rock bands", when so much is at stake this year is trivial, a little mean spirited, and foolish.
I might get some mean spirited posts sent my way over this but I don' t care, I'M PISSED MR. VEDDER!
if you subscribe to the notion that we crawled out of the muck and evolved to apes then men,you're crazy.
Over 25% of human genes are the same as those of a banana,i can see where some of you might of slightly evolved from a banana.:D
Evolution is a theory supported by a substantial and ever growing body of evidence. Study of shared common characteristics that predicted particular evolutionary relationships has now been supported by genetic analysis that gives further weight to these ideas. Investigation of the fossil record is providing more specimens that are supporting the evolutionary relationships that were hypothesised a long time ago. The 'god of the gaps' that survives in the evolutionary links not yet understood is growing smaller every day.
It is of course possible that this evidence is coincidence and nothing more, but the huge abundance and diversity of evidence makes it unlikely, and the more evidence that is collected, the smaller the probability that the basic principles of evolution are incorrect.
Evolution is not a theory that explains the origins of life, nor does the evidence suggest in any way that humans evolved from apes or bananas- we simply share a common ancestor.
Any argument that claims that life is too complicated to evolve so therefore god exists, is a bad argument because it simply transfers the problem of origin to a creator, and in the process makes the problem more complicated, (because a creator is inherently more complex than the created).
And attacking the idea of the big bang as ridiculous without actually taking the effort to understand what the theory proposes, nor the evidence supporting it, is fine, but is really just an uneducated opinion.
I am not saying that anybody's belief in god is absurd- I can see why people do hold that belief, although I do not. I am simply saying don't try to convince others by arguing that the science is wrong, unless you are willing to explain just how it is wrong...
if you knew what you talk about, you would not say stuff like attacking the idea of the big bang is ridiculous. even among scientists the big bang is being discussed. For example the question on how matter started to move, so the chain reaction could be initiated. Scientists have no clue. They speculate, of course, but They know what it's worth. The data is very limitited, astronomy is very very limited. We almost know nothing about the universe .
Big Bang theory doesnt explain life or the mind, anyway. And no real scientist ever wanted or tried to explain the big questions, cuz there are just no answers.: why is something there and not nothing. How came life into existancee. Why do humans wonder about stuff. what is the soul. what is the meaning of life. Most nobel prize winners were believers, so nobody tell me that reason is on the atheist side.
As to your question. I dont think 'science is wrong'. But it is so successfull, that people believe it can answer anything some day. Its not gonna happen. Reality is not that easy. It is absurd and paradox. maybe 'knowledge is a dream'.
The whole point of science is to discover the answer to things that were considered unanswerable. If the whole world stops investigating, and just goes with the easy catch-all answer, we'll never grow. Just because science hasn't explained the big questions yet doesn't mean there isn't a scientific answer.
And what do YOU practice, Evangelicalism??
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
how true.
outch! Dont believe that, please. If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human. I cant convince you here, but talk to a scientist about answering all question. Dont trust science to do that for you. There are and always were and will be questions, that every individual should aks themselves and cannot be delegated to science. The problem with some western humans today is, they trust science and think they will discover everything. It is not gonna happen, and no scientist argues that.
meaning. mind. love. god. are all apstract terms. they cant be located. It is the job of philosophy or theology to talk about them.
So have you asked yourself how gravity works recently? Or do you trust science with that since it was answered so long ago?:)
"If humans were to know everything, we would stop being human"? Are you saying we'd evolve?;)
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
say what?
the body evolves and adapts to it's environment because the creator made it that way.
the moment mankind thought himself apart from nature was the moment he stopped evolving.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I dont understand your first question. Dont think all Christians are stupid. I was talking about abstract terms. Gravity is a fact like the apple false down, so...
I really like your second part, though! This is a great thought, and could be made into a movie, a atheist movie, of course. About the boredom when all questions are answered. An apocalyptic sci fi movie, were people become animals again maybe, out of boredom, or... I dont know. Or like you said, they would evolve then. Great idea.
the Christian point on this goes like this: Here, there is no absolute knowledge. We get that after we died and will watch the truth, as it is. when we are with God, no questions will be unanswered. We will watch the truth.
of course we are part of nature,everything in CREATION is related.
but i worship the creator not the creation.