Serious question for those who carry guns: Do you also carry other life-saving devices like aspirin, CPR instructions, etc? If not, why not? Do you feel that you are more likely to be in a situation where you need a gun than a situation where you need some other life-saving device?
Serious question for those who carry guns: Do you also carry other life-saving devices like aspirin, CPR instructions, etc? If not, why not? Do you feel that you are more likely to be in a situation where you need a gun than a situation where you need some other life-saving device?
I never thought of that (I hate guns, but I like that angle).
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?....your gonna talk reason to a crazy person.....I’d say that would be the dumbest thing to do if not the most coward way to handle that situation.....
...
Situation: I’m in a public eatery....in walks a crazy and starts shooting people randomly...I would rather have mb262200 by me than the coward that is gonna talk it over with the shooter!
So in short I feel safe when responsible people have guns..
...
Regarding 'Carrying a Gun':
The paranoia I was referring to was the paranoia of 'the government' coming to your house to take your gun away from you. That is the basic scare tactic used by lobbist groups, such as the N.R.A., to garner support. No one is saying 'take away everyone's gun' and the government is not going to raid the homes of gunowners. Thinking they are... is paranoid.
...
Regarding your 'Situation':
You are talking about a sociopath, an insane person that goes in a shoots up the place. Yeah, maybe that happens everyday where you live... but, not here in Los Angeles. I am talking about the car jacker, the armed robber the person looking for money. That is the type of situation I am more likely to confront than a Columbine event. I will not put up a fight against a gun... take my wallet... take my car... just take it and go away. To me, it is only stuff... that can be replaced.
And what if you happen to be down range for MB26200's weapon? As he open's fire on that assailant, you'd better hope to God that he doesn't miss... fuck that responsible bullshit... he'd better be a marksman.
...
And if you think I am a coward... I don't care. I just know that someone that uses a gun in order to take my wallet is a coward. Be a man and fight me over it with your fists, because in that case, I am not going to surrender it. My opinion is the coward hides behind the gun.
I beleive that if you think a gun gives you courage... you must either have a small brain or small penis... or both.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
ps. what are the chances of that happening anyways?
Good point. We have a much greater chance of dying from a heart attack than from a shootout, so I'd prefer to hang around with people who carry asperin & defibrilators around with them. I wonder why people who are so concerned about preventing death don't carry those things instead of or in addition to guns.
Edit to add: The media (or something) has given us such an altered sense of risk perception!
No kidding about risk perception. LIke W can go on and tell the world terrorism is the biggest threat to Americans when obesity kills more.
@ the aspirin. My boyfriend's a nurse and not a cowboy, guess i'm lucky for that!!
live pearl jam is best pearl jam
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Serious question for those who carry guns: Do you also carry other life-saving devices like aspirin, CPR instructions, etc? If not, why not? Do you feel that you are more likely to be in a situation where you need a gun than a situation where you need some other life-saving device?
I never thought of that (I hate guns, but I like that angle).
I carry medical gloves in my truck along with a full first aid suitcase just in case I ever come across a medical situation. I think there's more of a chance of a medical situation on our highways and byways than one where's there's a need for a gun. Also if MB2622 is comfortable in carrying a gun and is so willing to use it to defend himself, has he trained with how to use weapon under those stressful situations he may come across? It's one thing to say you can defend yourself in using a gun but under the circumstances when it's used many people end up shooting the wrong person, misfire or shoot themselves.
Even though I was once trained in the military to shoot both M16, breakdown & rebuild an M60 machine gun, ranked #2 on my college school rifle team (shooting 22 smallbore), I've choosen not to own a gun at this time. I may in the future own a gun again but I would still want to be retrained, you can never get enough training on how to handle and shoot a gun, it is certainly NOT like how we see it in the movies.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Let me just add...
We all can see ourselves in the 'Hero' role... but, when push comes to shove... we have no idea how we will react. This is why there was only one man who jumped on that subway track to save that other man's life... why only one man dove into the frozen Potomac river to save that stewardess from drowning. That is also why no one called 9-1-1- when that girl was being gang raped after that dance. Heroism is easily said... not always done.
Now... someone who has been trained, such as cops, will know what to do. and guess what? Cops will ordinarily have a gun on them if they are on duty or not. So, there is your eatery hero.
...
And if you believe a Aerial does... next time you are at the mall... at the swap meet... at your Professional Wrestling event... look at all the people. Look at their faces, the way they are dressed, the way they are acting... everything about them.
Then, tell me you'd feel safer if 90% of them had a gun on them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?....your gonna talk reason to a crazy person.....I’d say that would be the dumbest thing to do if not the most coward way to handle that situation.....
...
Situation: I’m in a public eatery....in walks a crazy and starts shooting people randomly...I would rather have mb262200 by me than the coward that is gonna talk it over with the shooter!
So in short I feel safe when responsible people have guns..
...
Regarding 'Carrying a Gun':
The paranoia I was referring to was the paranoia of 'the government' coming to your house to take your gun away from you. That is the basic scare tactic used by lobbist groups, such as the N.R.A., to garner support. No one is saying 'take away everyone's gun' and the government is not going to raid the homes of gunowners. Thinking they are... is paranoid.
...
Regarding your 'Situation':
You are talking about a sociopath, an insane person that goes in a shoots up the place. Yeah, maybe that happens everyday where you live... but, not here in Los Angeles. I am talking about the car jacker, the armed robber the person looking for money. That is the type of situation I am more likely to confront than a Columbine event. I will not put up a fight against a gun... take my wallet... take my car... just take it and go away. To me, it is only stuff... that can be replaced.
And what if you happen to be down range for MB26200's weapon? As he open's fire on that assailant, you'd better hope to God that he doesn't miss... fuck that responsible bullshit... he'd better be a marksman.
...
And if you think I am a coward... I don't care. I just know that someone that uses a gun in order to take my wallet is a coward. Be a man and fight me over it with your fists, because in that case, I am not going to surrender it. My opinion is the coward hides behind the gun.
I beleive that if you think a gun gives you courage... you must either have a small brain or penis... or both.
You've hit the nail on the head right there, that's about what it comes down to.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
Yes, because car accidents, robbery and possible child molestation aren't NEARLY as common as someone pulling out a gun on me when i'm on my way to the grocery store.
live pearl jam is best pearl jam
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?....your gonna talk reason to a crazy person.....I’d say that would be the dumbest thing to do if not the most coward way to handle that situation.....
Situation: I’m in a public eatery....in walks a crazy and starts shooting people randomly...I would rather have mb262200 by me than the coward that is gonna talk it over with the shooter!
So in short I feel safe when responsible people have guns..
Your example situation makes no sense to me because if you have children and you are at home that means you have a loaded gun on you or around and within reach of your children. For this situation to even come to pass you would have to constantly be on watch to protect them from getting their hands on your gun before a potential intruder. I betcha that the chances of your kids getting their hands on that gun are going to be higher than a need to shoot a potential intruder who may harm your kids. You're telling you would want a situation like that, you want to live like that well if you do THAT's living a life of PARANOIA.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?....your gonna talk reason to a crazy person.....I’d say that would be the dumbest thing to do if not the most coward way to handle that situation.....
...
It is funny how people will come up with the most unrealistic, ideal situations to justify their point. Oh... and you notice... he always has his family with him?
"If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?"
Like, did the guy walk up to you and point a gun in your face... while you had a gun pointed at him? Or did the guy give you the chance to pull your weapon so it'd be an even fight?
Or... what if the person who was going to shoot your kid was a classmate of his? Shouldn't you pack a 9mm in your kid's lunch... next to the 'Munchables' and juice box?
...
And like I said, before... I do not care if a faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum thinks I'm a coward. I just know that I will not break one of basic laws that governs mankind... 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. This... coming from someone who is not religious... and basically scorns religion.
What does that tell you about me.... and the faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum?
Coward? I don't care.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I have not read this thread, I can not keep up with you guys but my thoughts
both guns and people kill each other, you can not have one without the other. Guns are dangerous, I live in Chicago and there are a lot of young people with guns killing each other this year, and it is not a coincidence that our hand gun ban was over turned and teen murder goes up.
however I have thought about getting gun before, I hate them and have never really used them..... and let me tell you why.....
I am in an interracial marriage and well to be frank, although this world has changed significantly, there is still a lot of hate out there and there are people that think that whites and blacks should not be together. We like to travel, go out on road trips, camping and such. There are times when we leave the city that we don't feel as safe. Is it the best protection, probably not, is there a chance that something hateful could happen to us, probably not.
And if you believe a Aerial does... next time you are at the mall... at the swap meet... at your Professional Wrestling event... look at all the people. Look at their faces, the way they are dressed, the way they are acting... everything about them.
Then, tell me you'd feel safer if 90% of them had a gun on them.
This is why I'm glad I'm growing up in a place without (lots of) guns. I live in Montreal, the second biggest city in Canada. I'm 18, I like to hang out in the bars (drinking age is 18 here). Yes, every once in a while some asshole gets to drunk and picks a fight with another guy. What's the worst that's happened? Some guy got his ass kicked. I feel much better knowing that's a possibility than some guy getting shot because some drunk guy was carrying a gun and a fight got carried away.
Besides, I feel much safer about letting my buddy get his ass kicked if he deserves it knowing there's pretty much no chance the other guy's carrying a gun:)
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
And if you believe a Aerial does... next time you are at the mall... at the swap meet... at your Professional Wrestling event... look at all the people. Look at their faces, the way they are dressed, the way they are acting... everything about them.
Then, tell me you'd feel safer if 90% of them had a gun on them.
This is why I'm glad I'm growing up in a place without (lots of) guns. I live in Montreal, the second biggest city in Canada. I'm 18, I like to hang out in the bars (drinking age is 18 here). Yes, every once in a while some asshole gets to drunk and picks a fight with another guy. What's the worst that's happened? Some guy got his ass kicked. I feel much better knowing that's a possibility than some guy getting shot because some drunk guy was carrying a gun and a fight got carried away.
Besides, I feel much safer about letting my buddy get his ass kicked if he deserves it knowing there's pretty much no chance the other guy's carrying a gun:)
Ugh, yah, exactly.
bar fight = normal, maybe stupidity, but normal.
bar fight + gun = scary thought.
And if you believe a Aerial does... next time you are at the mall... at the swap meet... at your Professional Wrestling event... look at all the people. Look at their faces, the way they are dressed, the way they are acting... everything about them.
Then, tell me you'd feel safer if 90% of them had a gun on them.
This is why I'm glad I'm growing up in a place without (lots of) guns. I live in Montreal, the second biggest city in Canada. I'm 18, I like to hang out in the bars (drinking age is 18 here). Yes, every once in a while some asshole gets to drunk and picks a fight with another guy. What's the worst that's happened? Some guy got his ass kicked. I feel much better knowing that's a possibility than some guy getting shot because some drunk guy was carrying a gun and a fight got carried away.
Besides, I feel much safer about letting my buddy get his ass kicked if he deserves it knowing there's pretty much no chance the other guy's carrying a gun:)
...
I drive the freeways of Los Angeles all the time. I look around and thank God that most of those drivers do not have a gun on them. I know it's tough to feel safe on an L.A. Freeway... but, i'll tell you this... I feel a Hell of a lot safer knowing all those terrible drivers don't have guns in their hands.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
This is why I'm glad I'm growing up in a place without (lots of) guns. I live in Montreal, the second biggest city in Canada. I'm 18, I like to hang out in the bars (drinking age is 18 here). Yes, every once in a while some asshole gets to drunk and picks a fight with another guy. What's the worst that's happened? Some guy got his ass kicked. I feel much better knowing that's a possibility than some guy getting shot because some drunk guy was carrying a gun and a fight got carried away.
Besides, I feel much safer about letting my buddy get his ass kicked if he deserves it knowing there's pretty much no chance the other guy's carrying a gun:)
...
I drive the freeways of Los Angeles all the time. I look around and thank God that most of those drivers do not have a gun on them. I know it's tough to feel safe on an L.A. Freeway... but, i'll tell you this... I feel a Hell of a lot safer knowing all those terrible drivers don't have guns in their hands.
OH MAN, my mom told me this story a couple weeks ago some lady cut some guy off while driving and he shot her kid who was in the backseat!!
...
It is funny how people will come up with the most unrealistic, ideal situations to justify their point. Oh... and you notice... he always has his family with him?
"If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?"
Like, did the guy walk up to you and point a gun in your face... while you had a gun pointed at him? Or did the guy give you the chance to pull your weapon so it'd be an even fight?
Or... what if the person who was going to shoot your kid was a classmate of his? Shouldn't you pack a 9mm in your kid's lunch... next to the 'Munchables' and juice box?
...
And like I said, before... I do not care if a faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum thinks I'm a coward. I just know that I will not break one of basic laws that governs mankind... 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. This... coming from someone who is not religious... and basically scorns religion.
What does that tell you about me.... and the faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum?
Coward? I don't care.
People talk so much about needing guns to protect their families but so easily ignore that it's usually probably more likely that their kids will be killed by their gun than protected by it.
I used to own a gun. (I'm not "anti-gun" or "afraid of guns".) As a single woman (and a TV consumer), I had a fear of someone breaking into my house & harming me. I kept it loaded & next to my bed so it would be accessable in such a situation. (My roommates & I were all single college students, so it's not like there were ever any kids in the house.) But one day I realized that, like you, I don't want to kill anyone. Period.
Also, I got home from work one day & one of my roommates told me that he not only had a young daughter I never knew about, but that she had come to visit and he had let her play in my room!! :shock:
Anyway, with regard to cowards... it's been my experience that the tough guys, the ones who are a bit too confident in their ability to "defend" themselves, are the ones who are less safe to be with. They are usually more likely to let a situation escalate to the point of violence.
Carrying a gun is not paranoid....unless wearing a seat belt, locking your doors, or even teaching your kids not to talk to strangers can be called paranoid, Right?
If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?....your gonna talk reason to a crazy person.....I’d say that would be the dumbest thing to do if not the most coward way to handle that situation.....
...
It is funny how people will come up with the most unrealistic, ideal situations to justify their point. Oh... and you notice... he always has his family with him?
"If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?"
Like, did the guy walk up to you and point a gun in your face... while you had a gun pointed at him? Or did the guy give you the chance to pull your weapon so it'd be an even fight?
Or... what if the person who was going to shoot your kid was a classmate of his? Shouldn't you pack a 9mm in your kid's lunch... next to the 'Munchables' and juice box?
...
And like I said, before... I do not care if a faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum thinks I'm a coward. I just know that I will not break one of basic laws that governs mankind... 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. This... coming from someone who is not religious... and basically scorns religion.
What does that tell you about me.... and the faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum?
Coward? I don't care.
Are you talking about me when you say faceless avatar? Because I did not call you a coward. With that said I want to clarify, it's starting to sound like every time I leave the house I tuck a gun in the waist of my jeans. My gun rarely ever leaves the house.
When I was in 5th grade I had(still have) a best friend Mark.He has an older brother Eric and a younger brother Matt. They all slept in the same room with three beds lined up next to each other. One morning Matt was at the breakfast table and asked his mother why she kept pulling the sheets off him last night. She told him he was dreaming. It was the next night, when Eric woke up and a guy was squatted down next to his brothers bed, when he sat up in bed the guy ran out the room, down the stairs, straight out the front door.He went into his mothers room to tell her and she again told him he was dreaming and then heard him walking on the roof. He came right back. So they hollered at him and called the police. He actually climbed up on the little roof above the outside door and pride the window open with a screwdriver.
Now, three days later. I awoke in the middle of the night and there is a man kneeling down next to my bed. He does not know I can see him and he keeps reaching up and scratching the top of my head really hard. I can remember very vividly how paralyzed I was, like I couldn't breath. My heart iis pounding right now just talking about. Anyways, I built up the courage, counted to three inside my head, and screamed as loud as I could.That guy was out my window in about 2 seconds flat and the police caught him a day later.We both lived in nice neighborhoods.
There are crazy fucking people in this world. I will admit, I have somewhat of a phobia about someone coming in my house at night and taking my daughter to the point where I don't sleep much at night sometimes. If anyone comes in my house in the middle of the night to mess with my daughter they are going to get shot. It's not being a hero, it's not being a tough guy or anything like that, it's plain fucking reality.
Also, my girlfriend had a stalker for three years at one time. It ended about four years ago. I would be out of town and she would see him sneaking around the house at night. He was also getting into my house and stealing panties and fixing the blinds so he could look through them from the outside. You don't know what it's like to have the feeling of safety taken away from your house.
thats a good post MB, it gives me some insights into your position on the issue..but when i was 12 years old one of my best friends took his friend's gun and shot himself in the head and committed suicide. it really fucked me up for a long time. i still have issues with it today. that might explain my anti gun stance...i did a really long post about Matt a couple of years ago on the old board. It was the first and only time i ever talked about it outside of my family and friends who knew him...i will see if i can find it and post it in this thread. due to some other issues and events going on in my life i am in no proper frame of mind to recount the whole story right now. if i can't find it i will just leave it at my friend killed himself when i was 12 and i have been against guns since...
Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
found it, buddah bless the search user posts feature...it was posted in the "suicide"thread in march 2008 and its more about suicide than guns, but it explains how i feel about guns and how one simple act can affect many lives for many years to come...
by gimmesometruth27 » 29 Feb 2008 20:13
i am so sorry to read the stories posted in this thread. i will share my story of suicide because i think i need to get it off my chest.
one of my very good friends committed suicide when i was 12. his name was Matt and he was 14 at the time. he was a year ahead of me in school and he was really outgoing, the life of the party, and a really popular kid. he was a skater and wore a really cool mohawk, which you did not see too often in middle school. he got into his fair share of trouble at school, mainly for acting out but nothing too serious. mainly just the smartass kid who would get on the teacher's nerves.
we used to ride the bus together and after school in the spring we would all meet up at the neighborhood catholic church after school and play football, baseball, or roller hockey depending on the weather. fall it was baseball or football, rain it was football for sure, winter it was always roller hockey. the church always had the best fields for sports and parking lots for hockey so we always went there. his mom was devoutly catholic and was at the church every night for various reasons, she was involved with the youth group, was a reader, was one of those people that either sang and led the chorus at mass or helped administer communion. she was a really good woman. his father was kind of a jerk. he was really hard on Matt. anything he did was never good enough to meet, let alone exceed his father's standards. he never talked to any of us kids and i don't remember ever seeing him at the church. we heard rumors that his dad used to beat him, but we never noticed any outward signs of abuse. Matt always denied everything and since he was older, his word meant alot to me. besides, all of our group had gotten spanked by our parents before so we thought it was normal. we were so young.
one day Matt organized everyone to go up to the church and play football after school. the last thing he ever said to me was "bring your ball and i'll see ya at the field" as he was getting off the bus. it was a Wednesday and it was a really nice day, one of the first warm days in march. i remember it like it was yesterday. only Matt never showed up. it was weird because he was always the first one there and the last one to leave and we never knew why. now that i am older i realize that he never wanted to be at home. so around 5:00 or so we saw Matt's mom's car leave the parking lot and we never thought much of it. we had heard some sirens and emergency vehicles go by a little before that, but that happend all the time on the busy street the church was on. it got dark so we went home for the night. i went to the ice rink for hockey practice an hour or so later and i got home about 9:00. i remember i set my bag down and the phone rang. my dad answered and it was my friend Tina who lived down the street from Matt. She told him to tell me that something had happened to Matt, he had shot himself and he was dead.
my dad hung up the phone and i will never forget the look on his face. it was like one of those "How the fuck am I supposed to explain this to my son??" kind of looks. he told me to sit down and he sat down next to me and told me "son," which i thought was funny because he never ever once called me "son" before that or since then......"son, i don't know how to tell you this, so i am just going to say it. Tina just called and wanted me to tell you that Bruno's dead. He shot himself this afternoon....I am so sorry...." years later my dad said that moment was the most difficult moment of his life as a father.
i didn't know what to do or what to think. i was only 12, i had no idea how to fathom what had happened. he was the first one of my friends that died. i had been to funerals for old people before that time, but nothing like this. our school was devestated. we had grief counselors there for several days i remember. the day after Matt's death many kids did not go to school. there were fears of copy-cat suicides and my parents made me go to school because they did not want me staying at home alone in my very depressed state. the thing that still messes with me to this day was we heard and saw the ambulance and police cars go by and we saw his mom drive off to his house once someone called the church to tell her what had happened. weeks later we found out that a kid on our bus who was 11 gave him the gun. Matt had asked to borrow it a few days before so he could go in the woods behind his house and hunt squirrels.
school was never the same after that. it took me a long time to be able to walk past his house after that. i remember crying for months when i would see his house or hear a song by The Cure, which was his favorite band. we never played football after school again, and if we did try to play baseball or hockey it was never the same. i should have seen it coming because he tried to give me his skateboard a few weeks before saying he was getting a new one and that he didn't need it. i didn't take it because i was not much of a skater. i found out he tried to give another friend his prized remote controlled car because he was "getting a new one".
looking back, i see that the warning signs were there and i have lived with the guilt for all of these years. none of us knew how bad it was at home for Matt because he never talked about it. none of us were ever invited over there when his dad was home. some time later the parents divorced. i guess they were too devestated to go on together. i remember seeing the mom at church and she was like a different person. she seemed to age 20 years seemingly overnight. she was just totally heartbroken for years.
i sometimes think of all of the things Matt never got to do that all of us have managed to experience. he never got to go to high school, never got to go to college, never got to go to a concert, never got to have sex, never got to get drunk or high, never got to drive a car, never bought a house or did anything that adults do in their daily life. and he never got old.
i do know that our collective childhoods were forever changed after that. our innocence was lost in that one day. we were naieve to think "people our age don't kill themselves, they die in accidents or due to illness". but we realized that suicide was for real, and it happens more often than we ever dared to imagine.
jesus, i just realized it will be 20 years next month. i am sorry to ramble in this post but i have never written about Matt. i just started to write a little blurb about him and it just kept pouring out of me. we still talk about him at times but its always with a sad tone. i really miss him, especially right now. every time i hear The Cure, or the song "there is a light that never goes out" by Morrissey i think of him.
my deepest sympathies go out to everyone else who has experienced the loss of a loved one to suicide.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Another obvious kneejerk reaction; assign blame to the gun.
well the gun helps, does it not???
i am sure nothing would have happened if the kid went up to the other one and just yelled "BANG BANG!!!!!!!".....
A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool. The person is a murderer. The person is at fault, not the gun.
Gun bans don't work, not to mention they are unconstitutional. Should a student have a gun is not the question, he should not have had it in school. The article doesn't mention the specific gun either so I cannot comment on if he legally owned it.
People need to stop using tragic situations to promote their political agendas.
problem is, this actually IS the perfect time to bring this issue to light. To me, the right to live is not a political agenda. it's just common sense.
And to mb (I think it was) who was mentioning the stalker problems and such, and I can't imagine what that would be like. I really can't. But what would you say about it if you accidentally shot someone you loved trying to protect them? I know, that's an awful hypothetical, and I'm sorry to say it, but it's something that needs consideration, because it does happen. And I can't imagine living with harming one of my loved ones trying to protect them.
Guns don't allow for man's weak responsive system. People die before we are able to think properly.
A gun is used for an action that I'm not willing to risk being wrong about.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
These recent posts confirm what I have always believed: guns do not belong in the hands of those with poor impulse control which includes children and teenagers. I also think we need to find out ways to keep guns out of schools, even if that means having metal detectors at the doors. Kids are required to go to school in the US, even if their school is an unsafe one. Children and their parents should be able to trust that once their kids walk through the school door, they won't get shot by someone in the building!!! Even if you disagree on adults' access to guns, surely we can all agree on that, right?
These recent posts confirm what I have always believed: guns do not belong in the hands of those with poor impulse control which includes children and teenagers. I also think we need to find out ways to keep guns out of schools, even if that means having metal detectors at the doors. Kids are required to go to school in the US, even if their school is an unsafe one. Children and their parents should be able to trust that once their kids walk through the school door, they won't get shot by someone in the building!!! Even if you disagree on adults' access to guns, surely we can all agree on that, right?
absolutely.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
if a bad guy knows you have a gun believe me he is LESS likely to attack you.
I grew up with gun's my father and I did a lot of hunting, when I was 16 I was home alone
one summer while my family was in Chicago for a family reunion and then about 3:00am I could hear
somebody up stares walking from room to room so grabbed my 30-30 and put 3 rounds in it then I could hear them on
the wood deck around back so I walked out to the side of the house and saw them then I pointed the rifle at one of them them and pulled the hammer back and 3:00 in the morning they heard that hammer pull back just fine, to me they were older guys about 20-25 or so and it was the first time I saw a grown man cry and piss his pants. point is guns save lives too.
if a bad guy knows you have a gun believe me he is LESS likely to attack you.
I grew up with gun's my father and I did a lot of hunting, when I was 16 I was home alone
one summer while my family was in Chicago for a family reunion and then about 3:00am I could hear
somebody up stares walking from room to room so grabbed my 30-30 and put 3 rounds in it then I could hear them on
the wood deck around back so I walked out to the side of the house and saw them then I pointed the rifle at one of them them and pulled the hammer back and 3:00 in the morning they heard that hammer pull back just fine, to me they were older guys about 20-25 or so and it was the first time I saw a grown man cry and piss his pants. point is guns save lives too.
Godfather.
yes, they do. but is that worth all the lives they take?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
I think so. Would you carry it instead of or in addition to a gun?
Sure, i'd carry a tazer instead of a gun. I'm going to check it out on craigslist tonight after I try to find my handicap placard.
Regarding 'Carrying a Gun':
The paranoia I was referring to was the paranoia of 'the government' coming to your house to take your gun away from you. That is the basic scare tactic used by lobbist groups, such as the N.R.A., to garner support. No one is saying 'take away everyone's gun' and the government is not going to raid the homes of gunowners. Thinking they are... is paranoid.
...
Regarding your 'Situation':
You are talking about a sociopath, an insane person that goes in a shoots up the place. Yeah, maybe that happens everyday where you live... but, not here in Los Angeles. I am talking about the car jacker, the armed robber the person looking for money. That is the type of situation I am more likely to confront than a Columbine event. I will not put up a fight against a gun... take my wallet... take my car... just take it and go away. To me, it is only stuff... that can be replaced.
And what if you happen to be down range for MB26200's weapon? As he open's fire on that assailant, you'd better hope to God that he doesn't miss... fuck that responsible bullshit... he'd better be a marksman.
...
And if you think I am a coward... I don't care. I just know that someone that uses a gun in order to take my wallet is a coward. Be a man and fight me over it with your fists, because in that case, I am not going to surrender it. My opinion is the coward hides behind the gun.
I beleive that if you think a gun gives you courage... you must either have a small brain or small penis... or both.
Hail, Hail!!!
I carry medical gloves in my truck along with a full first aid suitcase just in case I ever come across a medical situation. I think there's more of a chance of a medical situation on our highways and byways than one where's there's a need for a gun. Also if MB2622 is comfortable in carrying a gun and is so willing to use it to defend himself, has he trained with how to use weapon under those stressful situations he may come across? It's one thing to say you can defend yourself in using a gun but under the circumstances when it's used many people end up shooting the wrong person, misfire or shoot themselves.
Even though I was once trained in the military to shoot both M16, breakdown & rebuild an M60 machine gun, ranked #2 on my college school rifle team (shooting 22 smallbore), I've choosen not to own a gun at this time. I may in the future own a gun again but I would still want to be retrained, you can never get enough training on how to handle and shoot a gun, it is certainly NOT like how we see it in the movies.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
We all can see ourselves in the 'Hero' role... but, when push comes to shove... we have no idea how we will react. This is why there was only one man who jumped on that subway track to save that other man's life... why only one man dove into the frozen Potomac river to save that stewardess from drowning. That is also why no one called 9-1-1- when that girl was being gang raped after that dance. Heroism is easily said... not always done.
Now... someone who has been trained, such as cops, will know what to do. and guess what? Cops will ordinarily have a gun on them if they are on duty or not. So, there is your eatery hero.
...
And if you believe a Aerial does... next time you are at the mall... at the swap meet... at your Professional Wrestling event... look at all the people. Look at their faces, the way they are dressed, the way they are acting... everything about them.
Then, tell me you'd feel safer if 90% of them had a gun on them.
Hail, Hail!!!
You've hit the nail on the head right there, that's about what it comes down to.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yes, because car accidents, robbery and possible child molestation aren't NEARLY as common as someone pulling out a gun on me when i'm on my way to the grocery store.
Your example situation makes no sense to me because if you have children and you are at home that means you have a loaded gun on you or around and within reach of your children. For this situation to even come to pass you would have to constantly be on watch to protect them from getting their hands on your gun before a potential intruder. I betcha that the chances of your kids getting their hands on that gun are going to be higher than a need to shoot a potential intruder who may harm your kids. You're telling you would want a situation like that, you want to live like that well if you do THAT's living a life of PARANOIA.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
It is funny how people will come up with the most unrealistic, ideal situations to justify their point. Oh... and you notice... he always has his family with him?
"If you have a family and someone was about to shoot your kids...you tell me if you had a gun you would not shoot first?"
Like, did the guy walk up to you and point a gun in your face... while you had a gun pointed at him? Or did the guy give you the chance to pull your weapon so it'd be an even fight?
Or... what if the person who was going to shoot your kid was a classmate of his? Shouldn't you pack a 9mm in your kid's lunch... next to the 'Munchables' and juice box?
...
And like I said, before... I do not care if a faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum thinks I'm a coward. I just know that I will not break one of basic laws that governs mankind... 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'. This... coming from someone who is not religious... and basically scorns religion.
What does that tell you about me.... and the faceless avatar on a rock band's web forum?
Coward? I don't care.
Hail, Hail!!!
both guns and people kill each other, you can not have one without the other. Guns are dangerous, I live in Chicago and there are a lot of young people with guns killing each other this year, and it is not a coincidence that our hand gun ban was over turned and teen murder goes up.
however I have thought about getting gun before, I hate them and have never really used them..... and let me tell you why.....
I am in an interracial marriage and well to be frank, although this world has changed significantly, there is still a lot of hate out there and there are people that think that whites and blacks should not be together. We like to travel, go out on road trips, camping and such. There are times when we leave the city that we don't feel as safe. Is it the best protection, probably not, is there a chance that something hateful could happen to us, probably not.
Who knows :?
Besides, I feel much safer about letting my buddy get his ass kicked if he deserves it knowing there's pretty much no chance the other guy's carrying a gun:)
bar fight = normal, maybe stupidity, but normal.
bar fight + gun = scary thought.
OVER A TOY.
Honestly what is this world coming to when we solve petty little problems with drawing a pistol?
I drive the freeways of Los Angeles all the time. I look around and thank God that most of those drivers do not have a gun on them. I know it's tough to feel safe on an L.A. Freeway... but, i'll tell you this... I feel a Hell of a lot safer knowing all those terrible drivers don't have guns in their hands.
Hail, Hail!!!
People talk so much about needing guns to protect their families but so easily ignore that it's usually probably more likely that their kids will be killed by their gun than protected by it.
I used to own a gun. (I'm not "anti-gun" or "afraid of guns".) As a single woman (and a TV consumer), I had a fear of someone breaking into my house & harming me. I kept it loaded & next to my bed so it would be accessable in such a situation. (My roommates & I were all single college students, so it's not like there were ever any kids in the house.) But one day I realized that, like you, I don't want to kill anyone. Period.
Also, I got home from work one day & one of my roommates told me that he not only had a young daughter I never knew about, but that she had come to visit and he had let her play in my room!! :shock:
Anyway, with regard to cowards... it's been my experience that the tough guys, the ones who are a bit too confident in their ability to "defend" themselves, are the ones who are less safe to be with. They are usually more likely to let a situation escalate to the point of violence.
Are you talking about me when you say faceless avatar? Because I did not call you a coward. With that said I want to clarify, it's starting to sound like every time I leave the house I tuck a gun in the waist of my jeans. My gun rarely ever leaves the house.
When I was in 5th grade I had(still have) a best friend Mark.He has an older brother Eric and a younger brother Matt. They all slept in the same room with three beds lined up next to each other. One morning Matt was at the breakfast table and asked his mother why she kept pulling the sheets off him last night. She told him he was dreaming. It was the next night, when Eric woke up and a guy was squatted down next to his brothers bed, when he sat up in bed the guy ran out the room, down the stairs, straight out the front door.He went into his mothers room to tell her and she again told him he was dreaming and then heard him walking on the roof. He came right back. So they hollered at him and called the police. He actually climbed up on the little roof above the outside door and pride the window open with a screwdriver.
Now, three days later. I awoke in the middle of the night and there is a man kneeling down next to my bed. He does not know I can see him and he keeps reaching up and scratching the top of my head really hard. I can remember very vividly how paralyzed I was, like I couldn't breath. My heart iis pounding right now just talking about. Anyways, I built up the courage, counted to three inside my head, and screamed as loud as I could.That guy was out my window in about 2 seconds flat and the police caught him a day later.We both lived in nice neighborhoods.
There are crazy fucking people in this world. I will admit, I have somewhat of a phobia about someone coming in my house at night and taking my daughter to the point where I don't sleep much at night sometimes. If anyone comes in my house in the middle of the night to mess with my daughter they are going to get shot. It's not being a hero, it's not being a tough guy or anything like that, it's plain fucking reality.
Also, my girlfriend had a stalker for three years at one time. It ended about four years ago. I would be out of town and she would see him sneaking around the house at night. He was also getting into my house and stealing panties and fixing the blinds so he could look through them from the outside. You don't know what it's like to have the feeling of safety taken away from your house.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
by gimmesometruth27 » 29 Feb 2008 20:13
i am so sorry to read the stories posted in this thread. i will share my story of suicide because i think i need to get it off my chest.
one of my very good friends committed suicide when i was 12. his name was Matt and he was 14 at the time. he was a year ahead of me in school and he was really outgoing, the life of the party, and a really popular kid. he was a skater and wore a really cool mohawk, which you did not see too often in middle school. he got into his fair share of trouble at school, mainly for acting out but nothing too serious. mainly just the smartass kid who would get on the teacher's nerves.
we used to ride the bus together and after school in the spring we would all meet up at the neighborhood catholic church after school and play football, baseball, or roller hockey depending on the weather. fall it was baseball or football, rain it was football for sure, winter it was always roller hockey. the church always had the best fields for sports and parking lots for hockey so we always went there. his mom was devoutly catholic and was at the church every night for various reasons, she was involved with the youth group, was a reader, was one of those people that either sang and led the chorus at mass or helped administer communion. she was a really good woman. his father was kind of a jerk. he was really hard on Matt. anything he did was never good enough to meet, let alone exceed his father's standards. he never talked to any of us kids and i don't remember ever seeing him at the church. we heard rumors that his dad used to beat him, but we never noticed any outward signs of abuse. Matt always denied everything and since he was older, his word meant alot to me. besides, all of our group had gotten spanked by our parents before so we thought it was normal. we were so young.
one day Matt organized everyone to go up to the church and play football after school. the last thing he ever said to me was "bring your ball and i'll see ya at the field" as he was getting off the bus. it was a Wednesday and it was a really nice day, one of the first warm days in march. i remember it like it was yesterday. only Matt never showed up. it was weird because he was always the first one there and the last one to leave and we never knew why. now that i am older i realize that he never wanted to be at home. so around 5:00 or so we saw Matt's mom's car leave the parking lot and we never thought much of it. we had heard some sirens and emergency vehicles go by a little before that, but that happend all the time on the busy street the church was on. it got dark so we went home for the night. i went to the ice rink for hockey practice an hour or so later and i got home about 9:00. i remember i set my bag down and the phone rang. my dad answered and it was my friend Tina who lived down the street from Matt. She told him to tell me that something had happened to Matt, he had shot himself and he was dead.
my dad hung up the phone and i will never forget the look on his face. it was like one of those "How the fuck am I supposed to explain this to my son??" kind of looks. he told me to sit down and he sat down next to me and told me "son," which i thought was funny because he never ever once called me "son" before that or since then......"son, i don't know how to tell you this, so i am just going to say it. Tina just called and wanted me to tell you that Bruno's dead. He shot himself this afternoon....I am so sorry...." years later my dad said that moment was the most difficult moment of his life as a father.
i didn't know what to do or what to think. i was only 12, i had no idea how to fathom what had happened. he was the first one of my friends that died. i had been to funerals for old people before that time, but nothing like this. our school was devestated. we had grief counselors there for several days i remember. the day after Matt's death many kids did not go to school. there were fears of copy-cat suicides and my parents made me go to school because they did not want me staying at home alone in my very depressed state. the thing that still messes with me to this day was we heard and saw the ambulance and police cars go by and we saw his mom drive off to his house once someone called the church to tell her what had happened. weeks later we found out that a kid on our bus who was 11 gave him the gun. Matt had asked to borrow it a few days before so he could go in the woods behind his house and hunt squirrels.
school was never the same after that. it took me a long time to be able to walk past his house after that. i remember crying for months when i would see his house or hear a song by The Cure, which was his favorite band. we never played football after school again, and if we did try to play baseball or hockey it was never the same. i should have seen it coming because he tried to give me his skateboard a few weeks before saying he was getting a new one and that he didn't need it. i didn't take it because i was not much of a skater. i found out he tried to give another friend his prized remote controlled car because he was "getting a new one".
looking back, i see that the warning signs were there and i have lived with the guilt for all of these years. none of us knew how bad it was at home for Matt because he never talked about it. none of us were ever invited over there when his dad was home. some time later the parents divorced. i guess they were too devestated to go on together. i remember seeing the mom at church and she was like a different person. she seemed to age 20 years seemingly overnight. she was just totally heartbroken for years.
i sometimes think of all of the things Matt never got to do that all of us have managed to experience. he never got to go to high school, never got to go to college, never got to go to a concert, never got to have sex, never got to get drunk or high, never got to drive a car, never bought a house or did anything that adults do in their daily life. and he never got old.
i do know that our collective childhoods were forever changed after that. our innocence was lost in that one day. we were naieve to think "people our age don't kill themselves, they die in accidents or due to illness". but we realized that suicide was for real, and it happens more often than we ever dared to imagine.
jesus, i just realized it will be 20 years next month. i am sorry to ramble in this post but i have never written about Matt. i just started to write a little blurb about him and it just kept pouring out of me. we still talk about him at times but its always with a sad tone. i really miss him, especially right now. every time i hear The Cure, or the song "there is a light that never goes out" by Morrissey i think of him.
my deepest sympathies go out to everyone else who has experienced the loss of a loved one to suicide.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
problem is, this actually IS the perfect time to bring this issue to light. To me, the right to live is not a political agenda. it's just common sense.
And to mb (I think it was) who was mentioning the stalker problems and such, and I can't imagine what that would be like. I really can't. But what would you say about it if you accidentally shot someone you loved trying to protect them? I know, that's an awful hypothetical, and I'm sorry to say it, but it's something that needs consideration, because it does happen. And I can't imagine living with harming one of my loved ones trying to protect them.
Guns don't allow for man's weak responsive system. People die before we are able to think properly.
A gun is used for an action that I'm not willing to risk being wrong about.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
absolutely.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I grew up with gun's my father and I did a lot of hunting, when I was 16 I was home alone
one summer while my family was in Chicago for a family reunion and then about 3:00am I could hear
somebody up stares walking from room to room so grabbed my 30-30 and put 3 rounds in it then I could hear them on
the wood deck around back so I walked out to the side of the house and saw them then I pointed the rifle at one of them them and pulled the hammer back and 3:00 in the morning they heard that hammer pull back just fine, to me they were older guys about 20-25 or so and it was the first time I saw a grown man cry and piss his pants. point is guns save lives too.
Godfather.
yes, they do. but is that worth all the lives they take?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014