Bingo. So, we 1) try to keep guns out of kids' hands and 2) improve outreach services and mental health awareness and boom ... We've got ourselves a prevention program. I have no qualms about keeping guns away from kids. I just feel that the mental health issues need to be addressed as well.
now we are getting somewhere. my only problem with that is how are you going to pick up on the mental issues without screening everybody from kindergarden on? i would not be opposed to it, but logistically and costwise it could be considered prohibitive, but if we could do it and prevent these kinds of shootings i would be all for it. but what about the people that make it all the way through school and go shoot up their place of employment just the same?[/quote]
No screening program is perfect and none is ever going to be perfect. There are going to be false negatives (just like there will be people who acquire guns despite strict laws). I am not certain that a really rigorous mental health screen is even the only possible answer ... Maybe just more education in school around mental health issues would increase people's awareness to the point where some prevention could happen. I also wonder if anti-bullying programs might also prevent violence ... These programs do apparently improve kid's self-esteem (even in small ways) and they do decrease bullying incidents. Maybe a greater emphasis on these programs would ultimately translate into fewer bitter, angry school shooters?
Thats my point some follow the rules (values, morals) some don't....but if they don't know what the rules are What Then?.....Don't know about the rest of you but I do the speed limit
I grew up in an atheist household... I've yet to kill someone, yet to steal.
And I'd like you to answer my other question. You said that there's been more school shootings, and tied in the fact of the removal of prayer in 1962. The march on Washington happened in 1963. Therefore, could one logically assume (from what you said) that this is because prayer was removed from schools?
I said "they say" and it does seem logical....kids were not shooting kids in school when I was going.....I think kids see the BS going on about how bad it is to say the Pledge of Allegiance...saying prayers...teachers can’t discipline kids in school....kids have no respect for teachers or anything else....is it the parents? is it the school? ....is it the trouble makers screwing with the American Culture....I have nothing against atheist......but why do they have a problem with me?....I don’t know the answers....I’m just pondering what the OP was asking.....What is making kids kill kids?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
The prayer in schools is just ridiculous. Religious people commit just as many crimes than non-religious people.
My boyfriend was raised in a catholic school, what I hear from him and a lot of people is the kids are actually worse in there for drugs and sex. Not a generalization for all catholic schools but an interesting observation I think.
You don't need to be religious to have morals... that kind of thinking just inspires more hate.
Bingo. So, we 1) try to keep guns out of kids' hands and 2) improve outreach services and mental health awareness and boom ... We've got ourselves a prevention program. I have no qualms about keeping guns away from kids. I just feel that the mental health issues need to be addressed as well.
now we are getting somewhere. my only problem with that is how are you going to pick up on the mental issues without screening everybody from kindergarden on? i would not be opposed to it, but logistically and costwise it could be considered prohibitive, but if we could do it and prevent these kinds of shootings i would be all for it. but what about the people that make it all the way through school and go shoot up their place of employment just the same?
No screening program is perfect and none is ever going to be perfect. There are going to be false negatives (just like there will be people who acquire guns despite strict laws). I am not certain that a really rigorous mental health screen is even the only possible answer ... Maybe just more education in school around mental health issues would increase people's awareness to the point where some prevention could happen. I also wonder if anti-bullying programs might also prevent violence ... These programs do apparently improve kid's self-esteem (even in small ways) and they do decrease bullying incidents. Maybe a greater emphasis on these programs would ultimately translate into fewer bitter, angry school shooters?[/quote]
i have seen shows talking about anti bullying programs. this particular one i saw teaches basic self defense in PE class in which the defense is just as violent or moreso than the bullying. i am not sure if this is the way to go or not. i would think maybe that with some sort of empathy training may work. kids are bullied for a number of reasons and maybe if the bullies were able to relate to their victims in some emotional way then maybe they would mature and out grow the bully behavior? i dunno i am just thinking out loud i guess...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
The prayer in schools is just ridiculous. Religious people commit just as many crimes than non-religious people.
My boyfriend was raised in a catholic school, what I hear from him and a lot of people is the kids are actually worse in there for drugs and sex. Not a generalization for all catholic schools but an interesting observation I think.
You don't need to be religious to have morals... that kind of thinking just inspires more hate.
I agree....but what is so bad about the Ten Commandments?....is it a bad?....there is a survey done saying people that have religion or pray (not sure of the right wording) are more healthy are happier
and live longer...Just what I heard......
How many kids go into private schools and shoot up people?.....maybe they have religion maybe they have more attention given ?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
Bingo. So, we 1) try to keep guns out of kids' hands and 2) improve outreach services and mental health awareness and boom ... We've got ourselves a prevention program. I have no qualms about keeping guns away from kids. I just feel that the mental health issues need to be addressed as well.
now we are getting somewhere. my only problem with that is how are you going to pick up on the mental issues without screening everybody from kindergarden on? i would not be opposed to it, but logistically and costwise it could be considered prohibitive, but if we could do it and prevent these kinds of shootings i would be all for it. but what about the people that make it all the way through school and go shoot up their place of employment just the same?
No screening program is perfect and none is ever going to be perfect. There are going to be false negatives (just like there will be people who acquire guns despite strict laws). I am not certain that a really rigorous mental health screen is even the only possible answer ... Maybe just more education in school around mental health issues would increase people's awareness to the point where some prevention could happen. I also wonder if anti-bullying programs might also prevent violence ... These programs do apparently improve kid's self-esteem (even in small ways) and they do decrease bullying incidents. Maybe a greater emphasis on these programs would ultimately translate into fewer bitter, angry school shooters?
?
i have seen shows talking about anti bullying programs. this particular one i saw teaches basic self defense in PE class in which the defense is just as violent or moreso than the bullying. i am not sure if this is the way to go or not. i would think maybe that with some sort of empathy training may work. kids are bullied for a number of reasons and maybe if the bullies were able to relate to their victims in some emotional way then maybe they would mature and out grow the bully behavior? i dunno i am just thinking out loud i guess...
Parents need to teach there children respect for others....and bulling others is wrong....why does the school need to teach this?....this is basic parenting
Post edited by aerial on
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
The prayer in schools is just ridiculous. Religious people commit just as many crimes than non-religious people.
My boyfriend was raised in a catholic school, what I hear from him and a lot of people is the kids are actually worse in there for drugs and sex. Not a generalization for all catholic schools but an interesting observation I think.
You don't need to be religious to have morals... that kind of thinking just inspires more hate.
I agree....but what is so bad about the Ten Commandments?....is it a bad?....there is a survey done saying people that have religion or pray (not sure of the right wording) are more healthy are happier
and live longer...Just what I heard......
How many kids go into private schools and shoot up people?.....maybe they have religion maybe they have more attention given ?
They live longer? Really?
I'd love to see those facts.
How many priests touch little boys? Certainly they have had religion, but were they not taught it is wrong to molest children?
I think its a sign of the times. Its not 1960 anymore, women can't afford to be stay at home moms all the time. Children have more independence, and are in a swirl of media and entertainment that glorify the use of weapons, and in a country which glorifies war some of the time. I'd say prayer in school is far down the list on why these kids do what they do.
They live longer? Really?
I'd love to see those facts.
How many priests touch little boys? Certainly they have had religion, but were they not taught it is wrong to molest children?
I think its a sign of the times. Its not 1960 anymore, women can't afford to be stay at home moms all the time. Children have more independence, and are in a swirl of media and entertainment that glorify the use of weapons, and in a country which glorifies war some of the time. I'd say prayer in school is far down the list on why these kids do what they do.
haffajappa
There are crazy bastards in every walk of life.....
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
parents need to teach there children respect for others....and bulling others is wrong....why does the school need to teach this?....this is basic parenting
and all kids have two parents these days to teach them that right?? not in this day in age when the divorce rate is >50% and the average school teacher spends more time with the kid than the single parent working 2 or 3 jobs trying tp make ends meet.. like the poster above said, this is NOT 1960 anymore...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
parents need to teach there children respect for others....and bulling others is wrong....why does the school need to teach this?....this is basic parenting
and all kids have two parents these days to teach them that right?? not in this day in age when the divorce rate is >50% and the average school teacher spends more time with the kid than the single parent working 2 or 3 jobs trying tp make ends meet.. like the poster above said, this is NOT 1960 anymore...
and thats the problem....maybe
are you saying it's the schools job to raise kids?
Do you have any? I would guess not.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
There are crazy bastards in every walk of life.....
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
so maybe we should say material things are the reason?
not lack of prayers in school.
parents need to teach there children respect for others....and bulling others is wrong....why does the school need to teach this?....this is basic parenting
and all kids have two parents these days to teach them that right?? not in this day in age when the divorce rate is >50% and the average school teacher spends more time with the kid than the single parent working 2 or 3 jobs trying tp make ends meet.. like the poster above said, this is NOT 1960 anymore...
and thats the problem....maybe
are you saying it's the schools job to raise kids?
Do you have any? I would guess not.
that sounds like the opposite of what they were saying, actually.
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
Yes, parents these days just work for material things, not putting food on the table. Not sure if I have been dreaming the past 18 months, but it seems to me it has become much more difficult for most families to make ends meet. I thought your tea party (so hard not to use the term you so despise) were in touch with the average american?
There are crazy bastards in every walk of life.....
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
so maybe we should say material things are the reason?
not lack of prayers in school.
That could be true.....but why take away the good things....did prayer ever make someone go shoot some one....ok I've said enough on the prayer issue....I did not mean to make this all about prayer
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
Yes, parents these days just work for material things, not putting food on the table. Not sure if I have been dreaming the past 18 months, but it seems to me it has become much more difficult for most families to make ends meet. I thought your tea party (so hard not to use the term you so despise) were in touch with the average american?
Look I have been the single mom route....I know how hard it is...and I meant no disrespect to any single parent....but I do know there are those that work for the material things in this world....I know some of them. It is happening
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
Yes, parents these days just work for material things, not putting food on the table. Not sure if I have been dreaming the past 18 months, but it seems to me it has become much more difficult for most families to make ends meet. I thought your tea party (so hard not to use the term you so despise) were in touch with the average american?
Look I have been the single mom route....I know how hard it is...and I meant no disrespect to any single parent....but I do know there are those that work for the material things in this world....I know some of them. It is happening
I don't think he was "defending the weapon", which in any event is not a sentient entity and is therefore incapable of owning the guilt or responsibility in this situation. I believe in some reasonable gun controls (just so we're clear), but his point was that the genuine causes of this murder lie not with the tool itself but elsewhere. I agree with this point.
Can we all agree that gun violence requires BOTH a gun and a person to pull the trigger?
Certainly. Without the gun, said violence would be of some other sort. I think the fundamental issue pertains to whether having greater access to guns actually leads to more violence, or a greater level of violence relative to what would be there without access. This is actually a very hard question to answer, even though many people who dislike guns find it super-easy to jump to an "obvious" conclusion.
I guess my question was more for someone like Unsung.
So we agree that no guns = no gun violence, and the issue is whether or not gun violence is worse than other kinds of violence, right? So how do you measure what's "worse"? It does seem obvious to me that "worse" violence is the violence that, when it happens, results in greater harm (i.e. serious injury or death). Do you propose some other way to measure it? :?
Underneath a proximal cause like weapon access are all kinds of psychological and sociological causes of violence, and if you ask me, fixing these is going to be the only way to reduce overall violence levels.
I agree that the root causes of why people commit violent acts are psychological and sociological and we should do something to reduce these root causes. But do you really think there's no other/additional way to reduce violence? Again, maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about how to reduce the consequences of violence, like death. Are you just talking about the incidence of violent acts?? :?
I haven't read this whole thread in its entirety but the whole "you can't blame the device" argument is very illogical. That's like saying, on a more magnanimous level, that you can't blame the massacre of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki on nuclear weapons - only the people who fired them. Yeah, the people who fire the weapons are obviously at fault, but no one is saying they're innocent. But when there is a device that makes killing people easier and its readily available for use by almost anyone, it's a fucking problem. I mean no offense, really, but how is this not fucking obvious to anyone? Guns make killing people easier. A bat, a knife, any other type of weapon, would make things a little less difficult. And how the hell were cigarettes and alcohol and fast food and mosquitos brought into this discussion? This discussion is about weapons, not about anything that can cause someone's heart to stop beating. Alright, I gotta stop wasting time and finish writing my paper.
i wonder how many deaths by knives or bats happened in schools compared to guns?
and actually, technically the people who fired those bombs are innocent because 'war is hell'
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
someone said stabbings would be more frequent, but as a student of psychology it is much easier for people to stand back and shoot than it is to get right up on someone and stab them. stabbing is much more of a personal way to kill someone. same as asphixiation. many times when you kill out of hate you strangle or stab people, not shoot them. that is just the way it happens usually. anybody can pull a trigger, it takes a special person to stab someone and take a life that way....look at the studies during WWI and WWII where soldiers could shoot and kill and detatch themselves from the situation and get over it, but it was much more difficult to get over killing someone with a bayonette or in some other hand to hand situation...
This is true. Although I don't have any data readily available, I know from the years my dad worked at the morgue that when someone had been stabbed or strangled to death, it was almost always done by someone they knew. Not so with gun deaths.
3) while guns do create psychological distance in a military context, statistics show that physical assaults with knives, blunt objects, and fists/feet are FAR more numerous than shootings, even in a "gun culture" like the U.S.
This is not comparable to what he said above. Just because incidence of various kinds of physican assault might be higher than the incidence of shootings does not dispute the fact that killing someone up close and personal does not allow for the physical and emotional distance that shooting someone allows.
The argument is similar to the one around the indoor smoking ban we now have in place in Norway.
Everyone said that that would do nothing, people wanted to smoke and so on. But the reality is a sharp decline in the use of cigarettes all round. So even if people are free to do as they will, laws like that do have an effect. It reduces the general accessibility of smoking and making it more of a hassle. That's all it takes to get a lot of people off it.
Now apply to guns... Maybe a reduction in the amount of firearms lying around and/or making owning them a little more of a hassle, will reduce deaths, even if people are still people and all underlying factors the same.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
i can guarantee you this, if a person wants to kill someone,if they don't have a gun they will find something else to do the job....
I disagree. I think this is true in some cases, but in many cases it's the gun that bridged the gap between wanting to kill someone and actually doing it. There are plenty of times when a person has wanted to kill themselves or someone else and not done it either because it was too difficult/complicated or because by the time they got their shit together to do it they had calmed down. If all homicide was so well-thought-out, we wouldn't need to have different degrees of murder charges.
Thats my point some follow the rules (values, morals) some don't....but if they don't know what the rules are What Then?.....Don't know about the rest of you but I do the speed limit
I grew up in an atheist household... I've yet to kill someone, yet to steal.
And I'd like you to answer my other question. You said that there's been more school shootings, and tied in the fact of the removal of prayer in 1962. The march on Washington happened in 1963. Therefore, could one logically assume (from what you said) that this is because prayer was removed from schools?
I said "they say" and it does seem logical....kids were not shooting kids in school when I was going.....I think kids see the BS going on about how bad it is to say the Pledge of Allegiance...saying prayers...teachers can’t discipline kids in school....kids have no respect for teachers or anything else....is it the parents? is it the school? ....is it the trouble makers screwing with the American Culture....I have nothing against atheist......but why do they have a problem with me?....I don’t know the answers....I’m just pondering what the OP was asking.....What is making kids kill kids?
hahahaha. If only we could pray and say the pledge of allegiance. hahahahaha
There were a lot of responses there and a lot of baffled smileys. I don't think I was that baffling, but hey. I'll just give one blanket reply ... First, I think we can agree that interventions to keep guns out of kid's hands would decrease death rates when violent acts are committed, and are thus a good idea. I responded to gimmesometruth's argument about the distancing effects of guns in the way I did because he or she seemed to be implying that guns somehow breed violence where no such tendency existed before. If this were true, gun crimes would be more common than other violent crimes, which of course they are not. I think one can argue that guns do result in higher death tolls when someone snaps and goes on a rampage, which is why I feel that controls are needed, so long as said controls lead to bona fide increases in safety for all concerned. Guns make violent people more effective at what they do, and are therefore part of the problem (pardon the wording "effective", you know what I mean). But they are only PART of the issue here.
violent crime has increased in areas where gun control laws have been enacted,making it more likely law-abiding citizens have been un able to defend themselves from armed criminals
I don't get why liberals think that we shoulkd advocate more restrictive "gun control" laws which would make obtaining a gun more difficult for average american citizens,but in REALITY it would do very little to prevent thugs from obtaining guns.
First, I think we can agree that interventions to keep guns out of kid's hands would decrease death rates when violent acts are committed, and are thus a good idea.
I agree. Now what do you think about that same principle applied to adults?
I responded to gimmesometruth's argument about the distancing effects of guns in the way I did because he or she seemed to be implying that guns somehow breed violence where no such tendency existed before. If this were true, gun crimes would be more common than other violent crimes, which of course they are not.
I think one can argue that guns do result in higher death tolls when someone snaps and goes on a rampage, which is why I feel that controls are needed, so long as said controls lead to bona fide increases in safety for all concerned.
Guns make violent people more effective at what they do, and are therefore part of the problem (pardon the wording "effective", you know what I mean). But they are only PART of the issue here.
violent crime has increased in areas where gun control laws have been enacted,making it more likely law-abiding citizens have been un able to defend themselves from armed criminals
Comments
No screening program is perfect and none is ever going to be perfect. There are going to be false negatives (just like there will be people who acquire guns despite strict laws). I am not certain that a really rigorous mental health screen is even the only possible answer ... Maybe just more education in school around mental health issues would increase people's awareness to the point where some prevention could happen. I also wonder if anti-bullying programs might also prevent violence ... These programs do apparently improve kid's self-esteem (even in small ways) and they do decrease bullying incidents. Maybe a greater emphasis on these programs would ultimately translate into fewer bitter, angry school shooters?
My boyfriend was raised in a catholic school, what I hear from him and a lot of people is the kids are actually worse in there for drugs and sex. Not a generalization for all catholic schools but an interesting observation I think.
You don't need to be religious to have morals... that kind of thinking just inspires more hate.
No screening program is perfect and none is ever going to be perfect. There are going to be false negatives (just like there will be people who acquire guns despite strict laws). I am not certain that a really rigorous mental health screen is even the only possible answer ... Maybe just more education in school around mental health issues would increase people's awareness to the point where some prevention could happen. I also wonder if anti-bullying programs might also prevent violence ... These programs do apparently improve kid's self-esteem (even in small ways) and they do decrease bullying incidents. Maybe a greater emphasis on these programs would ultimately translate into fewer bitter, angry school shooters?[/quote]
i have seen shows talking about anti bullying programs. this particular one i saw teaches basic self defense in PE class in which the defense is just as violent or moreso than the bullying. i am not sure if this is the way to go or not. i would think maybe that with some sort of empathy training may work. kids are bullied for a number of reasons and maybe if the bullies were able to relate to their victims in some emotional way then maybe they would mature and out grow the bully behavior? i dunno i am just thinking out loud i guess...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
and live longer...Just what I heard......
How many kids go into private schools and shoot up people?.....maybe they have religion maybe they have more attention given ?
I'd love to see those facts.
How many priests touch little boys? Certainly they have had religion, but were they not taught it is wrong to molest children?
I think its a sign of the times. Its not 1960 anymore, women can't afford to be stay at home moms all the time. Children have more independence, and are in a swirl of media and entertainment that glorify the use of weapons, and in a country which glorifies war some of the time. I'd say prayer in school is far down the list on why these kids do what they do.
But there are plenty of Moms that can stay home or dads....but then they would not be able to afford the material things that bring them so much happiness.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
are you saying it's the schools job to raise kids?
Do you have any? I would guess not.
not lack of prayers in school.
Yes, parents these days just work for material things, not putting food on the table. Not sure if I have been dreaming the past 18 months, but it seems to me it has become much more difficult for most families to make ends meet. I thought your tea party (so hard not to use the term you so despise) were in touch with the average american?
Fair enough
I guess my question was more for someone like Unsung.
So we agree that no guns = no gun violence, and the issue is whether or not gun violence is worse than other kinds of violence, right? So how do you measure what's "worse"? It does seem obvious to me that "worse" violence is the violence that, when it happens, results in greater harm (i.e. serious injury or death). Do you propose some other way to measure it? :?
I agree that the root causes of why people commit violent acts are psychological and sociological and we should do something to reduce these root causes. But do you really think there's no other/additional way to reduce violence? Again, maybe we're talking about different things. I'm talking about how to reduce the consequences of violence, like death. Are you just talking about the incidence of violent acts?? :?
i wonder how many deaths by knives or bats happened in schools compared to guns?
and actually, technically the people who fired those bombs are innocent because 'war is hell'
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
This is true. Although I don't have any data readily available, I know from the years my dad worked at the morgue that when someone had been stabbed or strangled to death, it was almost always done by someone they knew. Not so with gun deaths.
This is not comparable to what he said above. Just because incidence of various kinds of physican assault might be higher than the incidence of shootings does not dispute the fact that killing someone up close and personal does not allow for the physical and emotional distance that shooting someone allows.
Everyone said that that would do nothing, people wanted to smoke and so on. But the reality is a sharp decline in the use of cigarettes all round. So even if people are free to do as they will, laws like that do have an effect. It reduces the general accessibility of smoking and making it more of a hassle. That's all it takes to get a lot of people off it.
Now apply to guns... Maybe a reduction in the amount of firearms lying around and/or making owning them a little more of a hassle, will reduce deaths, even if people are still people and all underlying factors the same.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
True. And yet guns give that angry kid the power to do a lot more damage than he would have been able to do without a gun. Don't you agree?
I disagree. I think this is true in some cases, but in many cases it's the gun that bridged the gap between wanting to kill someone and actually doing it. There are plenty of times when a person has wanted to kill themselves or someone else and not done it either because it was too difficult/complicated or because by the time they got their shit together to do it they had calmed down. If all homicide was so well-thought-out, we wouldn't need to have different degrees of murder charges.
hahahaha. If only we could pray and say the pledge of allegiance. hahahahaha
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
There were a lot of responses there and a lot of baffled smileys. I don't think I was that baffling, but hey. I'll just give one blanket reply ... First, I think we can agree that interventions to keep guns out of kid's hands would decrease death rates when violent acts are committed, and are thus a good idea. I responded to gimmesometruth's argument about the distancing effects of guns in the way I did because he or she seemed to be implying that guns somehow breed violence where no such tendency existed before. If this were true, gun crimes would be more common than other violent crimes, which of course they are not. I think one can argue that guns do result in higher death tolls when someone snaps and goes on a rampage, which is why I feel that controls are needed, so long as said controls lead to bona fide increases in safety for all concerned. Guns make violent people more effective at what they do, and are therefore part of the problem (pardon the wording "effective", you know what I mean). But they are only PART of the issue here.
I don't get why liberals think that we shoulkd advocate more restrictive "gun control" laws which would make obtaining a gun more difficult for average american citizens,but in REALITY it would do very little to prevent thugs from obtaining guns.
I agree. Now what do you think about that same principle applied to adults?
Oh. See, I didn't take it that way at all.
I agree.
I agree.
See, I knew we agreed.
Source, please?