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another student shot in school

dasvidanadasvidana Grand Junction CO Posts: 1,349
edited February 2010 in A Moving Train
Just read that last Friday, a student was shot and killed by another student in an Alabama middle school. Another life lost because a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person.
It's nice to be nice to the nice.
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  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Another obvious kneejerk reaction; assign blame to the gun.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    Another obvious kneejerk reaction; assign blame to the gun.
    well the gun helps, does it not???

    i am sure nothing would have happened if the kid went up to the other one and just yelled "BANG BANG!!!!!!!".....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • TravisTheSkyTravisTheSky Posts: 615
    Let me guess: The shooter was on prescribed psychotropic drugs, like all other schoolboy murderers.
    "May you live in interesting times."
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Ninth~Grader Shot Killed In Alabama Middle School
    So, an Alabama Ninth-Grader, shot and killed in Alabama Middle School, Discovery Middle School, is just the latest in a series of school shootings. I want to know why you think these shootings are occurring? Is it parents who are ignoring their children? Is it school administrators that should be doing more to ensure that weapons are not brought to school? What do you think the cause of these shootings is, and what should be done to prevent this type of tragedy from repeating itself?



    All valid questions as why something like this can happen in middle or any school.

    Peace
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    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

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  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Another obvious kneejerk reaction; assign blame to the gun.
    well the gun helps, does it not???

    i am sure nothing would have happened if the kid went up to the other one and just yelled "BANG BANG!!!!!!!".....


    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool. The person is a murderer. The person is at fault, not the gun.

    Gun bans don't work, not to mention they are unconstitutional. Should a student have a gun is not the question, he should not have had it in school. The article doesn't mention the specific gun either so I cannot comment on if he legally owned it.

    People need to stop using tragic situations to promote their political agendas.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Another obvious kneejerk reaction; assign blame to the gun.
    well the gun helps, does it not???

    i am sure nothing would have happened if the kid went up to the other one and just yelled "BANG BANG!!!!!!!".....


    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool. The person is a murderer. The person is at fault, not the gun.

    Gun bans don't work, not to mention they are unconstitutional. Should a student have a gun is not the question, he should not have had it in school. The article doesn't mention the specific gun either so I cannot comment on if he legally owned it.

    People need to stop using tragic situations to promote their political agendas.
    thanks for the kneejerk reaction to defend the murder weapon... :roll:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    It is not knee jerk at all. It is the typical response everytime someone blames a tool used to commit a crime.

    I'm guessing without looking that things like automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, electricity, weather, chemicals, and probably countless other things caused the deaths of more people in the US in 2009. Should people blame those objects too and demand bans?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    dasvidana wrote:
    Just read that last Friday, a student was shot and killed by another student in an Alabama middle school. Another life lost because a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person.

    The article does not mention what type of gun was used. Did you find that using another source?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    It is not knee jerk at all. It is the typical response everytime someone blames a tool used to commit a crime.

    I'm guessing without looking that things like automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, electricity, weather, chemicals, and probably countless other things caused the deaths of more people in the US in 2009. Should people blame those objects too and demand bans?
    nice try, but unlike a gun and a bullet, most of those things do not take seconds to kill and can not be used in a murder...cigarettes, alcohol, fast food and chemicals are contributors to death. that death results from the disease process brought on by years of poor health and lifestyle choices.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool.

    Gone any data on the case fatality rates of those "tools" versus guns? Just wondering.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    nice try, but unlike a gun and a bullet, most of those things do not take seconds to kill and can not be used in a murder...cigarettes, alcohol, fast food and chemicals are contributors to death. that death results from the disease process brought on by years of poor health and lifestyle choices.


    Timing is nothing and has nothing to do with this. The fact is people blame a device for a death when the person should be blamed.

    I don't see your logic, so since cigarettes take years to kill they should be available? C'mon that makes so sense. You are placing value on a life over another because one is instant and another takes time. I'm willing to bet some sufferers of lung cancer would have wish it would have been quick. My Stepfather is dying right now with throat cancer from chewing tobacco, and he has told me of his suffering, and this man never complained about anything.

    Let's fix the real issue of how any weapon got into school, and what goes through someones mind to do such a thing. Blaming a device is irresponsible.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited February 2010
    scb wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool.

    Gone any data on the case fatality rates of those "tools" versus guns? Just wondering.


    Nope. I don't need to look to know that knives and bats kill. I personally knew victims of both, I've never personally known anyone to be killed by a firearm.

    But I've also personally known people that were killed by a train crash, tobacco use, asbestos (finally controlled), hanging by a rope, depression, and a vehicle accident.
    Post edited by unsung on
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    nice try, but unlike a gun and a bullet, most of those things do not take seconds to kill and can not be used in a murder...cigarettes, alcohol, fast food and chemicals are contributors to death. that death results from the disease process brought on by years of poor health and lifestyle choices.


    Timing is nothing and has nothing to do with this. The fact is people blame a device for a death when the person should be blamed.

    I don't see your logic, so since cigarettes take years to kill they should be available? C'mon that makes so sense. You are placing value on a life over another because one is instant and another takes time. I'm willing to bet some sufferers of lung cancer would have wish it would have been quick. My Stepfather is dying right now with throat cancer from chewing tobacco, and he has told me of his suffering, and this man never complained about anything.

    Let's fix the real issue of how any weapon got into school, and what goes through someones mind to do such a thing. Blaming a device is irresponsible.

    I don't think death by illness is comparable to death by murder, especially if the illness is a result of one's personal lifestyle choices.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    scb wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat, so would countless other items. The point is a gun is merely a tool.

    Gone any data on the case fatality rates of those "tools" versus guns? Just wondering.


    Nope. I don't need to look to know that knives and bats kill. I personally knew victims of both, I've never known anyone to be killed by a firearm.

    I think it's the rate at which they kill (case fatality rate, not speed) that is the issue. I mean, shit... mosquito bites kill... but it's so unlikely that one will be killed from a mosquito assault that no one really sees it as a problem, ya know?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I think Malaria is considered a serious problem at some places on this planet.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    nice try, but unlike a gun and a bullet, most of those things do not take seconds to kill and can not be used in a murder...cigarettes, alcohol, fast food and chemicals are contributors to death. that death results from the disease process brought on by years of poor health and lifestyle choices.


    Timing is nothing and has nothing to do with this. The fact is people blame a device for a death when the person should be blamed.

    I don't see your logic, so since cigarettes take years to kill they should be available? C'mon that makes so sense. You are placing value on a life over another because one is instant and another takes time. I'm willing to bet some sufferers of lung cancer would have wish it would have been quick. My Stepfather is dying right now with throat cancer from chewing tobacco, and he has told me of his suffering, and this man never complained about anything.

    Let's fix the real issue of how any weapon got into school, and what goes through someones mind to do such a thing. Blaming a device is irresponsible.
    you are absolutely wrong. deaths from tobacco are a result of the DISEASE PROCESS brought on as a result of choosing to smoke or use tobacco. you can not murder anyone with a wad of dip, so your comparison does not hold water in this situation and is irrelevent to this discussion. those examples you gave are from people's own lifestyle choices. as a conservative you should understand a thing or two about personal responsibility.

    have you ever seen a man shot? when i used to have to observe in the ER on the weekends as a student i saw the results of bullets. the device is at least partly if not entirely to blame in this situation. your argument is like saying during a lethal injection the state is the cause of death instead of the three chemicals used to carry out the execution.

    have you ever read an autopsy report, the cause if death in the case of a smoker is never murder...

    that said, i am very very sorry to hear about your stepfather...... :(
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    I think Malaria is considered a serious problem at some places on this planet.

    Sure. But are you more worried about death when you are bit by a mosquito or when you are shot? If most people's answer was when bit by a mosquito, then we would be discussing what to do about the mosquito problem in this country. But we're not, because we are less likely to die once bit by a mosquito than once shot. Similarly, we are less likely to die when hit with a bat or stabbed with a knife than when shot. And that's why gun violence is more of an issue.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    It is not knee jerk at all. It is the typical response everytime someone blames a tool used to commit a crime.

    I'm guessing without looking that things like automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, electricity, weather, chemicals, and probably countless other things caused the deaths of more people in the US in 2009. Should people blame those objects too and demand bans?

    Well, we already have partially banned / limited access to cigarettes, alcohol, and even automobiles. Why is it okay for controls to be placed on these items but not on guns?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I should mention that Mosquitos now carry West Nile virus as well. But that is besides the point.

    I still think we need to go inside the head of the person. Something larger is being ignored.

    I can't copy and paste now since I'm on a different device but to whomever asked me about viewing a gunshot wound. Yes I have, not on a person though. I'm an avid gun owner and I know exactly what does what. I still don't think the device is to blame, nor does destructive power have anything to do with it. I'm sure you have also see what can be done with a two inch blade called a scalpel.

    We need to focus on keeping kids safe, agreed. But we need other forms of prevention, outright bans do not work.
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    unsung wrote:
    It is not knee jerk at all. It is the typical response everytime someone blames a tool used to commit a crime.

    I'm guessing without looking that things like automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, fast food, electricity, weather, chemicals, and probably countless other things caused the deaths of more people in the US in 2009. Should people blame those objects too and demand bans?
    For the last time.

    A hand gun is DESIGNED TO KILL. None of the others are (well, maybe cigarettes, but the world would be a better place if that shit was banned too).
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.

    "Protect" by killing. ;)

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone calling for this ban you are arguing against.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.
    protect from what? guns were invented and designed for war. the purpose of war is to kill as efficiently as possible. i still do not see how your argument is relevent to the fact that ANOTHER kid was murder at school. there is no excusing that. period.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    unsung wrote:
    I should mention that Mosquitos now carry West Nile virus as well. But that is besides the point.

    I still think we need to go inside the head of the person. Something larger is being ignored.

    I can't copy and paste now since I'm on a different device but to whomever asked me about viewing a gunshot wound. Yes I have, not on a person though. I'm an avid gun owner and I know exactly what does what. I still don't think the device is to blame, nor does destructive power have anything to do with it. I'm sure you have also see what can be done with a two inch blade called a scalpel.

    We need to focus on keeping kids safe, agreed. But we need other forms of prevention, outright bans do not work.

    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    it was my proactive reaction to what was inevitable. And it was mentioned a few responses ago.

    Like I said agree to disagree and focus on why these individuals feel the need to murder. Or is that not acceptable because it doesn't follow a political agenda?
    scb wrote:

    "Protect" by killing. ;)

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone calling for this ban you are arguing against.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I'm trying to deal with reality on the topic, I doubt many kids will do that. However I'd support the use of a gun, or any other device whether designed for killing or not, to be used to stop that person.

    Would you?

    Should we fight wars? Or should we just allow those that wish to kill as many Americans as possible the path to do so because we don't want to use a gun to stop them?

    I'll say it again, probably for the fifth time, we need to find out why kids feel the need to kill other kids. Period.

    scb wrote:


    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    I'm trying to deal with reality on the topic, I doubt many kids will do that. However I'd support the use of a gun, or any other device whether designed for killing or not, to be used to stop that person.

    Would you?

    Should we fight wars? Or should we just allow those that wish to kill as many Americans as possible the path to do so because we don't want to use a gun to stop them?

    I'll say it again, probably for the fifth time, we need to find out why kids feel the need to kill other kids. Period.

    scb wrote:


    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
    what does fighting a war have to do with the topic of this thread?? there is a dead 8th grader that nobody seems to give a shit about. yet people are defending the weapon...i dont get it...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    If you don't think gun related deaths are a problem in America compared to any other country then there is no hope for you.

    Or as Charlton Heston would say, "i blame black people"
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    You obviously have not read my entire replies where I have been asking how we find out what makes kids kill other kids. What goes through their head that a life, make that two since one is dead and the other in prison, is of no value?
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    unsung wrote:
    You obviously have not read my entire replies where I have been asking how we find out what makes kids kill other kids. What goes through their head that a life, make that two since one is dead and the other in prison, is of no value?
    i am not replying to that because you and i both know that we can do all of the psychology testing we want but if a kid wants to get a gun he will have no problems doing so...the problem is guns are so readily available. less guns = less murder pure and simple...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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