another student shot in school

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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    unsung wrote:
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.

    "Protect" by killing. ;)

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone calling for this ban you are arguing against.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,415
    unsung wrote:
    Glass half empty/half full. They are also designed to protect.

    We are going to have to agree to disagree.

    But bans don't work, I'll note Chicago's ban as an example.
    protect from what? guns were invented and designed for war. the purpose of war is to kill as efficiently as possible. i still do not see how your argument is relevent to the fact that ANOTHER kid was murder at school. there is no excusing that. period.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    unsung wrote:
    I should mention that Mosquitos now carry West Nile virus as well. But that is besides the point.

    I still think we need to go inside the head of the person. Something larger is being ignored.

    I can't copy and paste now since I'm on a different device but to whomever asked me about viewing a gunshot wound. Yes I have, not on a person though. I'm an avid gun owner and I know exactly what does what. I still don't think the device is to blame, nor does destructive power have anything to do with it. I'm sure you have also see what can be done with a two inch blade called a scalpel.

    We need to focus on keeping kids safe, agreed. But we need other forms of prevention, outright bans do not work.

    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    it was my proactive reaction to what was inevitable. And it was mentioned a few responses ago.

    Like I said agree to disagree and focus on why these individuals feel the need to murder. Or is that not acceptable because it doesn't follow a political agenda?
    scb wrote:

    "Protect" by killing. ;)

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone calling for this ban you are arguing against.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I'm trying to deal with reality on the topic, I doubt many kids will do that. However I'd support the use of a gun, or any other device whether designed for killing or not, to be used to stop that person.

    Would you?

    Should we fight wars? Or should we just allow those that wish to kill as many Americans as possible the path to do so because we don't want to use a gun to stop them?

    I'll say it again, probably for the fifth time, we need to find out why kids feel the need to kill other kids. Period.

    scb wrote:


    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,415
    unsung wrote:
    I'm trying to deal with reality on the topic, I doubt many kids will do that. However I'd support the use of a gun, or any other device whether designed for killing or not, to be used to stop that person.

    Would you?

    Should we fight wars? Or should we just allow those that wish to kill as many Americans as possible the path to do so because we don't want to use a gun to stop them?

    I'll say it again, probably for the fifth time, we need to find out why kids feel the need to kill other kids. Period.

    scb wrote:


    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.
    what does fighting a war have to do with the topic of this thread?? there is a dead 8th grader that nobody seems to give a shit about. yet people are defending the weapon...i dont get it...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    If you don't think gun related deaths are a problem in America compared to any other country then there is no hope for you.

    Or as Charlton Heston would say, "i blame black people"
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    You obviously have not read my entire replies where I have been asking how we find out what makes kids kill other kids. What goes through their head that a life, make that two since one is dead and the other in prison, is of no value?
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,415
    unsung wrote:
    You obviously have not read my entire replies where I have been asking how we find out what makes kids kill other kids. What goes through their head that a life, make that two since one is dead and the other in prison, is of no value?
    i am not replying to that because you and i both know that we can do all of the psychology testing we want but if a kid wants to get a gun he will have no problems doing so...the problem is guns are so readily available. less guns = less murder pure and simple...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    unsung wrote:
    it was my proactive reaction to what was inevitable. And it was mentioned a few responses ago.

    Like I said agree to disagree and focus on why these individuals feel the need to murder. Or is that not acceptable because it doesn't follow a political agenda?
    scb wrote:

    "Protect" by killing. ;)

    Maybe I missed it in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone calling for this ban you are arguing against.

    So is that snyde remark another "proactive" reaction? :roll:

    To be honest, I don't have the slightest idea what political agenda you're referring to. What reason would anyone have for wanting to regulate guns other than for reducing their harmful effects?

    So then what's being done to "focus on why these individuals feel the need to murder" (and then intervene) and how effective is that intervention? And what about those who don't necessarily feel the need to murder in a premeditated way?
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    unsung wrote:
    I'm trying to deal with reality on the topic, I doubt many kids will do that. However I'd support the use of a gun, or any other device whether designed for killing or not, to be used to stop that person.

    Would you?

    Should we fight wars? Or should we just allow those that wish to kill as many Americans as possible the path to do so because we don't want to use a gun to stop them?

    I'll say it again, probably for the fifth time, we need to find out why kids feel the need to kill other kids. Period.

    scb wrote:


    If neither the device, nor its destructive power, have anything to do with it, do you support nuclear weapons in the hands of school kids (or any other random person)?

    I'll share my perspective with you about this argument: To me, it's typically the conservative, NRA member, gun owner types (if we have to stereotype) who have the knee-jerk reactions. Someone can start a thread saying "a hand gun landed in the hands of the wrong person" or someone can acknowledge that gun violence/death is a problem, and the people I know who fit this stereotype immediately start going off about how bans aren't the answer (even if no one is calling for a ban) and "you can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" and blah blah blah. This defensiveness doesn't solve anything and makes it hard to take those people seriously or to make any progress toward solving the problem. I have yet to hear a solution to the problem, with everyone being so busy worrying that acknowledging that there is a problem will immediately strip them of their rights and get them kicked out of the NRA.

    You didn't answer my question, or my other question awhile back.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    unsung wrote:
    You obviously have not read my entire replies where I have been asking how we find out what makes kids kill other kids. What goes through their head that a life, make that two since one is dead and the other in prison, is of no value?

    Perhaps it's the normalization of violence through the media and the prevalence of gun use.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    less guns = less murder pure and simple...

    I do believe that's just mathematically (and historically) correct.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    So what do you propose to reduce the amount of guns?
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,415
    unsung wrote:
    So what do you propose to reduce the amount of guns?
    it starts with people stopping saying that guns don't kill people when they most clearly and most certainly do. it is that mentality that not only dismisses the issue, it basically ignores the issue.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unsung wrote:
    A knife would have done the same thing, so would a bat

    No they wouldn't.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unsung wrote:
    Gun bans don't work

    And you base this assumption on what exactly?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unsung wrote:
    Timing is nothing and has nothing to do with this. The fact is people blame a device for a death when the person should be blamed.

    The murderer was blamed. Murderers who murder using guns are charged with murder with a firearm.

    You can defend yourself against a knife or a bat. You can't stop a bullet.

    If you think it's o.k for kids to have guns then there's something wrong with your brain.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    unsung wrote:
    Let's fix the real issue of how any weapon got into school, and what goes through someones mind to do such a thing. Blaming a device is irresponsible.

    Nobody's blaming the gun. No one is saying that the gun grew feet and hands and fired itself at a school child. Your fucked-up laws allowed the gun to get into the hands of a child, just as there are thousands of other children in America walking around with guns, or who have easy access to a gun. If you can't see how that's a problem then maybe one day you will when it's you or someone close to you who gets shot in the face by a 12 year old.

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