This made me laugh. I think you got that saying wrong
The skins suck with or without mcnabb. he isn't going to solve their problems. They aren't getting better via the draft.
check this out (from mel kiper)...
It's simply a fact that aside from their No. 4 pick, the Skins have largely traded out of this draft. They now don't have any other picks within the top 100, and with the current crop of talent, that No. 37 pick the Eagles just picked up is practically a first-rounder. The McNabb pick-up may become a great success story in Washington, but the organization -- regardless of who has been in charge under Dan Snyder -- keeps kicking draft choices to the curb, and the roster has and will suffer. It's nice to pick up great players, but it's not the way to build a great team. You simply have to emphasize the draft.
Wash will prob be 6-10 to 8-8. At best imo they have a good def but changing to the 3-4 without a good nosetackle is dumb especially when they spent way to much money on fat albert last year. They have 3 old as hell nfl rbs and te coming off a injury and no scary wrs.will they be better with 5 I'd say yes but not even close to what some are saying. Donovan was a great qb here but he sure as hell lost more then a step imo.
This made me laugh. I think you got that saying wrong
The skins suck with or without mcnabb. he isn't going to solve their problems. They aren't getting better via the draft.
check this out (from mel kiper)...
It's simply a fact that aside from their No. 4 pick, the Skins have largely traded out of this draft. They now don't have any other picks within the top 100, and with the current crop of talent, that No. 37 pick the Eagles just picked up is practically a first-rounder. The McNabb pick-up may become a great success story in Washington, but the organization -- regardless of who has been in charge under Dan Snyder -- keeps kicking draft choices to the curb, and the roster has and will suffer. It's nice to pick up great players, but it's not the way to build a great team. You simply have to emphasize the draft.
Wash will prob be 6-10 to 8-8. At best imo they have a good def but changing to the 3-4 without a good nosetackle is dumb especially when they spent way to much money on fat albert last year. They have 3 old as hell nfl rbs and te coming off a injury and no scary wrs.will they be better with 5 I'd say yes but not even close to what some are saying. Donovan was a great qb here but he sure as hell lost more then a step imo.
I agree..he's an upgrade obviously over Campbell but that team isn't just hurting at one position
I still think it is stupid to trade a guy in the division
My drinking team has a hockey problem
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
i love how illogical Eagle fans can be. the ones who wanted McNabb traded because we couldn't win with him (according to them not my thought) yet now think Washington has passed us by because they have him. You can't have it both ways - you can't run the guy out of town because you think he is no good then think the team he went to is all of sudden going to be really good because you sent him there. Twisted freakin logic there boys. 95% of Eagle fans are such morons and make it hard to cheer for this team.
if you're talking about me you obviously have not paid attention to anything i have said in this thread...or last year's thread...or the one before that...or the one before that....or the one before that. you get the picture.
To compare Mcnabb to Elway is a joke. Elway and mcnabb were both mobile and had good arms thats all. Elway didn't choke at the end of the game. mcnabb feared the last drive while Elway lived for it. Thats a huge huge difference. U can compare brady to montana or manning to marino but this whole Mcnabb and elway thing is a joke no matter what anyone says or until Mcnabb actually does it when it matters. And Mcnabbs numbers weren't good for a qb that throws the ball way more then almost every qb in the game. And yes Go Phillies!!!!
obviously the end of the game heroics is the huge difference between the two.
but if you look at their stats for their first 11 years in the leageu they are earily similiar. mcnabb's completion percentage is actually 2 or 3% higher than elways. and that was my point in saying that shanahan is the absolute best coach for him at this point in their careers. they are similiar in that they both had cannons for arms, threw great deep balls, and were not the most accurage of passers. put don on a team that emphasizes the run, give him a pro bowl tight end, some young receivers, a stout defense, improve the o-line....then yes i think he has a shot at having similiar success that elway had at the end of his career.
This made me laugh. I think you got that saying wrong
The skins suck with or without mcnabb. he isn't going to solve their problems. They aren't getting better via the draft.
check this out (from mel kiper)...
It's simply a fact that aside from their No. 4 pick, the Skins have largely traded out of this draft. They now don't have any other picks within the top 100, and with the current crop of talent, that No. 37 pick the Eagles just picked up is practically a first-rounder. The McNabb pick-up may become a great success story in Washington, but the organization -- regardless of who has been in charge under Dan Snyder -- keeps kicking draft choices to the curb, and the roster has and will suffer. It's nice to pick up great players, but it's not the way to build a great team. You simply have to emphasize the draft.
i would think shanahan will wield some power down there.
I guess brian baldinger agrees with me and jamminpearls...here's his quote
The Eagles should be ecstatic. I view McNabb as a flawed player, and it was never more apparent than in the back-to-back losses to the Cowboys last season. His flaws will never go away. Now, the Eagles get at least two chances to expose the same flaws they've been covering up for 11 years. It works against the Redskins that McNabb is still in the division. Andy Reid can finally stop covering up for one of the most overrated quarterbacks in the history of the game. The Eagles will go to the playoffs. The Redskins will be watching from the golf course.
cool. should i start posting comments from other nfl analysts, who did not lose their announcing jobs last year like baldinger, who feel otherwise?
This made me laugh. I think you got that saying wrong
The skins suck with or without mcnabb. he isn't going to solve their problems. They aren't getting better via the draft.
check this out (from mel kiper)...
It's simply a fact that aside from their No. 4 pick, the Skins have largely traded out of this draft. They now don't have any other picks within the top 100, and with the current crop of talent, that No. 37 pick the Eagles just picked up is practically a first-rounder. The McNabb pick-up may become a great success story in Washington, but the organization -- regardless of who has been in charge under Dan Snyder -- keeps kicking draft choices to the curb, and the roster has and will suffer. It's nice to pick up great players, but it's not the way to build a great team. You simply have to emphasize the draft.
Wash will prob be 6-10 to 8-8. At best imo they have a good def but changing to the 3-4 without a good nosetackle is dumb especially when they spent way to much money on fat albert last year. They have 3 old as hell nfl rbs and te coming off a injury and no scary wrs.will they be better with 5 I'd say yes but not even close to what some are saying. Donovan was a great qb here but he sure as hell lost more then a step imo.
I agree..he's an upgrade obviously over Campbell but that team isn't just hurting at one position
I still think it is stupid to trade a guy in the division
agreed. the skins need some help like i mentioned. but don was at his best with a defense that keeps them in games even with sub par weapons on offense. now he has that same thing...just with a better coach. we should have shipped him out of the conference.
Jeags
I would agree with you about mcnabb and a stout def if we were talkn about the Mcnabb from 3yrs ago or so. he's not the same qb anymore,he dosen't run he's scared to through a ball in a small window. He's so much a woe is me guy it makes me sick. His presser yesterday was about the biggiest joke i've heard in a long time. He is an excuse maker and a cry baby and for that i'm happy another organzation and fans will understand what we've seen the last 1-3yrs here. He's was an amazing qb here and i hope he one day makes it into the HOF.
Jeags
I would agree with you about mcnabb and a stout def if we were talkn about the Mcnabb from 3yrs ago or so. he's not the same qb anymore,he dosen't run he's scared to through a ball in a small window. He's so much a woe is me guy it makes me sick. His presser yesterday was about the biggiest joke i've heard in a long time. He is an excuse maker and a cry baby and for that i'm happy another organzation and fans will understand what we've seen the last 1-3yrs here. He's was an amazing qb here and i hope he one day makes it into the HOF.
well let's agree to disagree man. i am of the camp that wanted reid to go and would have extended mcnabb. he had solid year this year anyway you want to spin it. good quarterbacks in this league are few and far between. the good ones now play well into their late 30's. i am aware of mcnabb's faults. i'm also aware that reid never did him any favors by forcing him to drop back and pass 65% of the time. that's just ridiculous. i hope he doesnt do the same to kolb. don needs a coach like shanahan at this point in his career. i cannot stress that enough. shanahan is the one guy who can squeeze every ounce of talent out of him.
i think you know i am not one of those people (despite what pjhawks may think) that am quick to rip on the eagles. i consider myself to be pretty objective here, usually taking a wait and see attitude to the things they do. trading him now was smart. trading him a couple hours south to a division rival who has been looking for a quarterback since the early 80's was dumb.
i do like all the youthful exuberance on this team now. all the young bucks seem to really like kolb. here's celek responding to that idiot in dallas, keith brooking:
The Eagles and Cowboys have ended each others' seasons two years in a row.
And even though it's April, the players are doing their part in adding to the rivalry.
And we at MTC love it.
You'll remember that Cowboys linebacker Keith Brooking took a jab at the Birds last week.
"The way we dominated them, obviously [Donovan] McNabb didn’t play his best, but they were very predictable," Brooking said. "We knew exactly what was coming on every play. A lot of that didn’t have to do with Donovan McNabb."
Those words found their way to Eagles tight end Brent Celek, who responded on ESPN 103.3's Galloway and Company show.
"It kind of irked me a little bit," Celek said. "I don't think they knew exactly the plays that we were running, when we were running them. They played better than us in those games and I'll give them credit. They did do a good job. But for him to say that, I totally disagree with him. I'll tell ya what, I can't wait to play him next year."
Last year, Celek broke out with 76 catches for 971 yards and eight touchdowns. We saw a side of him we hadn't seen in his first two seasons in the league - dragging defenders along for extra yardage, showing emotion after picking up first downs, etc.
He was asked what he'll say to Brooking when the two teams meet.
"I can't say that on radio, guys," Celek said. "Every time we went down there, and you see him trying to get the crowd riled up on that big jumbotron, it just gets me going, so I can't wait to play him again."
Well, we know that Eagles-Cowboys is going to be fun. And we know that Eagles-Redskins is going to be fun. What about Eagles-Giants? That's going to be fun too. But more on that later.
Celek continued to back his buddy Kevin Kolb, saying the Eagles made the right move.
"They did the right thing," Celek said. "They got faith in Kolb, and I'll tell ya what, I think Kolb is gonna be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL in years to come. I hate hearing people say that we're rebuilding right now cause we got a lot of good players on our team and we're gonna win a lot of games this year.
"The people in the front office and coach Reid have seen Kevin's development over the last three years, and they feel it's time. And I'll tell ya what, a lot of guys on the team feel the exact same way. We're ready to rally behind him and get this thing going."
i love how illogical Eagle fans can be. the ones who wanted McNabb traded because we couldn't win with him (according to them not my thought) yet now think Washington has passed us by because they have him. You can't have it both ways - you can't run the guy out of town because you think he is no good then think the team he went to is all of sudden going to be really good because you sent him there. Twisted freakin logic there boys. 95% of Eagle fans are such morons and make it hard to cheer for this team.
if you're talking about me you obviously have not paid attention to anything i have said in this thread...or last year's thread...or the one before that...or the one before that....or the one before that. you get the picture.
Jaegler - not talking about you at all but just in general terms of those who thought McNabb sucked. I've been a huge supporter of McNabb as you know on here but even I think it was time to go. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done. As usual with Andy Reid and this ownership group (just nutting who think these guys suck - remember Rich Kotite and Norman Braman people) this team will be fine.
i love how illogical Eagle fans can be. the ones who wanted McNabb traded because we couldn't win with him (according to them not my thought) yet now think Washington has passed us by because they have him. You can't have it both ways - you can't run the guy out of town because you think he is no good then think the team he went to is all of sudden going to be really good because you sent him there. Twisted freakin logic there boys. 95% of Eagle fans are such morons and make it hard to cheer for this team.
if you're talking about me you obviously have not paid attention to anything i have said in this thread...or last year's thread...or the one before that...or the one before that....or the one before that. you get the picture.
Jaegler - not talking about you at all but just in general terms of those who thought McNabb sucked. I've been a huge supporter of McNabb as you know on here but even I think it was time to go. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done. As usual with Andy Reid and this ownership group (just nutting who think these guys suck - remember Rich Kotite and Norman Braman people) this team will be fine.
like i said i am okay with trading him. i guess i just think more of mcnabb than others here because i think he's going to make the skins contenders over the next 3-4 years. i would have taken slightly less to ship him off to oakland or buffalo...
. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done.
A great QB wasn't traded, a marginal one at best was traded. To call him great would be placing him in the like of Bradshaw, Montana, and Marino. He emulated none of them. He was a good QB who brought some life and status to Philly, but in his 10+ years he floundered over and over. This whole McNabb subject is going to go back and forth until the season starts and we see what Kolb does. If he does good, McNabb is forgotten about, if he does bad, then all we will hear about is the bad trade of McNabb and how we should have kept him. I know this is still fresh news and will be a good debate for a while, but at some point we have to move on and get on the Kolb Train and get Philly a Superbowl they deserve!
I don't know why so many eagles fans are up in arms about mcnabb going to the skins. That team sucked for a lot of reasons last year. mcnabb sure as hell isn't a savior. he is better than campbell, but he's not solving all of their problems.
and I think shanahan is vastly overrated. he inherited a team that had arguably top 5 all time players at 3 different positions (elway, atwater, sharpe). he showed his true colors after elway retired by winning 1 playoff game in 11 years. again, he's an upgrade from jim zorn, but nothing to get worked up about.
the skins still only have 1 pick in the first 100 of a loaded draft. they may have marginally gotten better with the mcnabb trade, but they're still not a playoff team.
the eagles will be fine. they made a great trade that will improve their team. I have liked what they've done this offseason. they are well set up for a SB run in 2011 if they hit on some draft picks over the next couple of years
. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done.
A great QB wasn't traded, a marginal one at best was traded. To call him great would be placing him in the like of Bradshaw, Montana, and Marino. He emulated none of them. He was a good QB who brought some life and status to Philly, but in his 10+ years he floundered over and over. This whole McNabb subject is going to go back and forth until the season starts and we see what Kolb does. If he does good, McNabb is forgotten about, if he does bad, then all we will hear about is the bad trade of McNabb and how we should have kept him. I know this is still fresh news and will be a good debate for a while, but at some point we have to move on and get on the Kolb Train and get Philly a Superbowl they deserve!
Funny to rip Donovan for not winning yet Marino is great? Again totally illogical Eagle fans - Marino won a hell of a lot less than Donovan did.
would you consider Elway great? Well Donovan's stats compare very favorably over their 1st 11 years. Donovan was a GREAT qb for the Eagles. I honestly don't get the 'floundering' part - the fn guy went to a Super Bowl and 5 NFC championships. Yes he didn't win one, but neither did Brian Dawkins, Brian Westboook etc. - yet for some reason Dawkins is revered and McNabb hated. McNabb had a hell of a lot more to do with 10 years of winning than Dawkins. I loved Dawk but he was average at best the last 3 years here and the defense is what choked against Arizona not McNabb.
I would love for the McNabb haters to list the QBs now and in the past 10 years that have been better than him - there are maybe 5-8 of them - being a Top 10 QB for a decade straight, yes I would consider him great. Hell right now I'd make the argument there are only 4 or 5 better than him today.
I wonder if most of the Eagle fans that truly don't think he is any good are the ones around 28 years old and younger - you know the ones that didn't have to sit through the endless parade of Randall Cunningham (talk about floundering...), Rodney Pette, 2 freakin Detmer's, Brad Goebel, Pat Ryan, and one-armed Jim McMahon, etc. - I've sat and watched average to bad QBs for the Eagles and throughout the rest of the league and this guy is and has been way better than average.
. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done.
A great QB wasn't traded, a marginal one at best was traded. To call him great would be placing him in the like of Bradshaw, Montana, and Marino. He emulated none of them. He was a good QB who brought some life and status to Philly, but in his 10+ years he floundered over and over. This whole McNabb subject is going to go back and forth until the season starts and we see what Kolb does. If he does good, McNabb is forgotten about, if he does bad, then all we will hear about is the bad trade of McNabb and how we should have kept him. I know this is still fresh news and will be a good debate for a while, but at some point we have to move on and get on the Kolb Train and get Philly a Superbowl they deserve!
Funny to rip Donovan for not winning yet Marino is great? Again totally illogical Eagle fans - Marino won a hell of a lot less than Donovan did.
would you consider Elway great? Well Donovan's stats compare very favorably over their 1st 11 years. Donovan was a GREAT qb for the Eagles. I honestly don't get the 'floundering' part - the fn guy went to a Super Bowl and 5 NFC championships. Yes he didn't win one, but neither did Brian Dawkins, Brian Westboook etc. - yet for some reason Dawkins is revered and McNabb hated. McNabb had a hell of a lot more to do with 10 years of winning than Dawkins. I loved Dawk but he was average at best the last 3 years here and the defense is what choked against Arizona not McNabb.
I would love for the McNabb haters to list the QBs now and in the past 10 years that have been better than him - there are maybe 5-8 of them - being a Top 10 QB for a decade straight, yes I would consider him great. Hell right now I'd make the argument there are only 4 or 5 better than him today.
I wonder if most of the Eagle fans that truly don't think he is any good are the ones around 28 years old and younger - you know the ones that didn't have to sit through the endless parade of Randall Cunningham (talk about floundering...), Rodney Pette, 2 freakin Detmer's, Brad Goebel, Pat Ryan, and one-armed Jim McMahon, etc. - I've sat and watched average to bad QBs for the Eagles and throughout the rest of the league and this guy is and has been way better than average.
mcnabb did choke vs arizona...he left about 30 points on the field in the first half when there were dudes running around wide open and he couldn't hit them. and of course getting the ball down 7, 2 minutes left...but that's what he ALWAYS did in pressure spots. the defense was awful too, but the team should share the blame in that game. a great QB is supposed to have the ability to put his team on his shoulders in big games...mcnabb didn't do that against good teams
I honestly think kolb is better suited to run reid's offense than mcnabb is. if you take the offensive system out of the equation, there is no doubt that mcnabb is a superior athlete. but reid's offense is based on quick decisions and accurate throws, both of which are mcnabbs biggest deficiencies.
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
so did the redskins...and therein lies the problem peter.
should have shipped him to the raiders...even if it meant getting slightly less.
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
so did the redskins...and therein lies the problem peter.
should have shipped him to the raiders...even if it meant getting slightly less.
if a team gets better but still sucks does it really matter? I say no
that's like a fat chick losing 10 pounds when she needs to drop 50. she's still fat
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
so did the redskins...and therein lies the problem peter.
should have shipped him to the raiders...even if it meant getting slightly less.
The raiders would have never given us anything close to what we got from wash. Mcnabb wouldn't sign an extension there that's why he didn't get traded there oak offer was probably crap because they don't wanna give up that much for a qb for 1yr and a franchise tag number at 20 million. He made it clear he wanted no parts of oakland why people don't relieve this is beyond me.for a team to trade for mcnabb and to give up good value they had to know hed sign an extension. That's why wash won out very simple to understand to me. And to the dude who said marino isn't great cause he never won a superbowl lost all crediblity right there. Marino is a top 5 qb in nfl history while mcnabb might be a top 5 qb during his 11yr time period. I loved mcnabb while he was here and appericated him 100 percent but to not see that it was time to trade him since the EAGLES ORGANZATION didn't want him here no more is blind faith.
The raiders would have never given us anything close to what we got from wash. Mcnabb wouldn't sign an extension there that's why he didn't get traded there oak offer was probably crap because they don't wanna give up that much for a qb for 1yr and a franchise tag number at 20 million. He made it clear he wanted no parts of oakland why people don't relieve this is beyond me.for a team to trade for mcnabb and to give up good value they had to know hed sign an extension. That's why wash won out very simple to understand to me. And to the dude who said marino isn't great cause he never won a superbowl lost all crediblity right there. Marino is a top 5 qb in nfl history while mcnabb might be a top 5 qb during his 11yr time period. I loved mcnabb while he was here and appericated him 100 percent but to not see that it was time to trade him since the EAGLES ORGANZATION didn't want him here no more is blind faith.
raiders had a deal in place to ship us the 39th pick. i'm sure we could have finagled a 4th rounder next year as well. they were also multiple reports out there stating they didnt care if mcnabb did not sign an extension. they made a similar trade for richard seymore a year ago with the pats. they could have franchised mcnabb for '11 if they wanted to. or don could have spent a year there, waited for farve to retire next year and then go to the team he really wanted to go to: the vikings. in reality, mcnabb did not have any say in this at all---if the eagles didn't care about sending him to a better team. he does not have a no trade clause. and there is no way he would forfit 12 million dollars by sitting out a year. so that theory is incorrect.
agree about the marino comment though. he's one of the best to every play the game. he just could not get the job done in january.
don is a poor man's john elway at this point in his career though. i still stand by that. and i believe he has a a shot to be compared favorably with him when it is all said and done. people keep acting as if his career is over when we'll be seeing him twice a year for the next 3-5 years. long way to go for him.
one more thing jammingpearls: quit saying that i do not think it was time to trade him. i have been saying its time to move on since the 2nd dallas game. go back to the first page of this thread. i just disagree with where we sent him.
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
so did the redskins...and therein lies the problem peter.
should have shipped him to the raiders...even if it meant getting slightly less.
if a team gets better but still sucks does it really matter? I say no
that's like a fat chick losing 10 pounds when she needs to drop 50. she's still fat
you obviously don't understand my argument. i feel like i'm talking to my dog. stop pooping on my carpet man!
here's an article from gcobb's site that speaks well to my argument that shanahan can get the most out of don like he did with elway. i will admit, like i've said before, that they still have some work to do on the offensive side. but i think don's gonna sign a 3-4 year extension so they'll have plenty of time to build through trades, fa, draft:
Can McNabb Succeed With Less Talent Around Him?
Donovan McNabb makes the Redskins a better football team without question. But how will McNabb perform with less talent? McNabb will find comfort in tight end Chris Cooley, who will quickly become his favorite target. However, the Redskins’ wide receivers pale in comparison to DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, and Jason Avant. Santana Moss is a deep threat, but he is old and isn’t the dynamic playmaker that Jackson is.
Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly are two former high draft picks that have shown very little so far.
The Redskins’ offensive line also has issues. Chris Samuels’ retirement leaves a large void at left tackle.
The right side is also weak with former Bills’ 1st round bust Mike Willams. Those weaknesses combined with McNabb’s diminished running skills will leave the Redskins struggling to protect McNabb.
The Redskins’ backfield is filled with aging veterans Clinton Portis, Willie Parker, and Larry Johnson, who have all seen their best days.
There’s no doubt that McNabb will help the Redskins. However, McNabb’s days of carrying an offense like he did early in his career are far behind him. With less to work with, McNabb may find the going tougher in Washington than in Philly.
But there is another factor: new head coach Mike Shanahan.
Shanahan has a history of working well with quarterbacks. The prime example of course is John Elway, who had a similar reputation as McNabb with respect to the “can’t win the big games” tag.
Shanahan took over for Dan Reeves, who was strikingly similar to Andy Reid, especially from a control perspective. Reeves controlled Elway like Reid controlled McNabb.
When Shanahan took over, he released the shackles on Elway and turned the “can’t win a big game bust” into a 2 time super bowl winner.
If Shanahan can manage McNabb slightly differently than the over-bearing Reid, he may unlock what we all think has been missing from McNabb.
There is no doubt this is the thinking Shanahan made when he decided to trade for McNabb. Shanahan sees the similarities between the 2 situations and thinks that he can be successful with McNabb just as he was with Elway.
The telling moments will be how McNabb performs under pressure situations, like the 2 minute drill. If we see something like McNabb throwing 2 yard passes with 7 seconds left on the clock, then we will know it was probably McNabb who was at fault.
But if we see McNabb perform well under those circumstances after being “freed” by Shanahan, then we will know it was Reid and his slow in-game decision making that was at fault.
If there is a marked difference in McNabb’s performance under pressure situations, this trade would be considered a disaster for the Eagles. Not only because McNabb would prove that he wasn’t the problem, but because the problem would have been Reid all along, and Reid happens to still be with the team.
That would also mean that Kevin Kolb is likely to suffer the same fate as McNabb, ever struggling with clock management issues, and strange play calls from the sidelines with no play clock time left to react to on-the-field situations other than running the play called.
For those who always wanted to know whether the problem was McNabb or Reid, the stage is set perfectly to get your answer.
and I think shanahan is vastly overrated. he inherited a team that had arguably top 5 all time players at 3 different positions (elway, atwater, sharpe). he showed his true colors after elway retired by winning 1 playoff game in 11 years. again, he's an upgrade from jim zorn, but nothing to get worked up about.
Don't forget 4000 yds over 2 years from Terrel Davis.
Don't most Philly fans dig this trade? From my outside perspective, it makes sense either way. If they think Kolb is the future and ready may as well get the ball rolling. They obviously think they'll at least be as well of with him.
It woulda been smarter,imo to not trade him in the division, for the sole reason that McNabb is gonna get hyped up for 6-10 Philly games over the next few years and that could have a strong hand in their playoff chances.
It woulda been smarter,imo to not trade him in the division, for the sole reason that McNabb is gonna get hyped up for 6-10 Philly games over the next few years and that could have a strong hand in their playoff chances.
thats my only issue. we were at the point that we needed to move on. but we also solved a 25 year old problem for our rival in the process....
Funny to rip Donovan for not winning yet Marino is great? Again totally illogical Eagle fans - Marino won a hell of a lot less than Donovan did.
Not all great QBs win the Superbowl and I think Dan Marino and perhaps even Jim Kelly are prime examples. McNabb just did not possess "greatness." Marino did. I for one am not a McNabb hater, I love the guy. Hell I even went to SU with him. But I'm not going to cry in my beer all day about Philly letting him go. It was the right decision and we all saw it coming the day we brought on Vick.
You waste entirely too much time on two crappy teams and organizations:)
Also, those Eagles receivers had a good qb throwing to them. I bet the Redskins receiving corps can do just as good, with the exception of Devin jackson being a bit better and younger than Moss.
here's an article from gcobb's site that speaks well to my argument that shanahan can get the most out of don like he did with elway. i will admit, like i've said before, that they still have some work to do on the offensive side. but i think don's gonna sign a 3-4 year extension so they'll have plenty of time to build through trades, fa, draft:
Can McNabb Succeed With Less Talent Around Him?
Donovan McNabb makes the Redskins a better football team without question. But how will McNabb perform with less talent? McNabb will find comfort in tight end Chris Cooley, who will quickly become his favorite target. However, the Redskins’ wide receivers pale in comparison to DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, and Jason Avant. Santana Moss is a deep threat, but he is old and isn’t the dynamic playmaker that Jackson is.
Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly are two former high draft picks that have shown very little so far.
The Redskins’ offensive line also has issues. Chris Samuels’ retirement leaves a large void at left tackle.
The right side is also weak with former Bills’ 1st round bust Mike Willams. Those weaknesses combined with McNabb’s diminished running skills will leave the Redskins struggling to protect McNabb.
The Redskins’ backfield is filled with aging veterans Clinton Portis, Willie Parker, and Larry Johnson, who have all seen their best days.
There’s no doubt that McNabb will help the Redskins. However, McNabb’s days of carrying an offense like he did early in his career are far behind him. With less to work with, McNabb may find the going tougher in Washington than in Philly.
But there is another factor: new head coach Mike Shanahan.
Shanahan has a history of working well with quarterbacks. The prime example of course is John Elway, who had a similar reputation as McNabb with respect to the “can’t win the big games” tag.
Shanahan took over for Dan Reeves, who was strikingly similar to Andy Reid, especially from a control perspective. Reeves controlled Elway like Reid controlled McNabb.
When Shanahan took over, he released the shackles on Elway and turned the “can’t win a big game bust” into a 2 time super bowl winner.
If Shanahan can manage McNabb slightly differently than the over-bearing Reid, he may unlock what we all think has been missing from McNabb.
There is no doubt this is the thinking Shanahan made when he decided to trade for McNabb. Shanahan sees the similarities between the 2 situations and thinks that he can be successful with McNabb just as he was with Elway.
The telling moments will be how McNabb performs under pressure situations, like the 2 minute drill. If we see something like McNabb throwing 2 yard passes with 7 seconds left on the clock, then we will know it was probably McNabb who was at fault.
But if we see McNabb perform well under those circumstances after being “freed” by Shanahan, then we will know it was Reid and his slow in-game decision making that was at fault.
If there is a marked difference in McNabb’s performance under pressure situations, this trade would be considered a disaster for the Eagles. Not only because McNabb would prove that he wasn’t the problem, but because the problem would have been Reid all along, and Reid happens to still be with the team.
That would also mean that Kevin Kolb is likely to suffer the same fate as McNabb, ever struggling with clock management issues, and strange play calls from the sidelines with no play clock time left to react to on-the-field situations other than running the play called.
For those who always wanted to know whether the problem was McNabb or Reid, the stage is set perfectly to get your answer.
You waste entirely too much time on two crappy teams and organizations:)
Also, those Eagles receivers had a good qb throwing to them. I bet the Redskins receiving corps can do just as good, with the exception of Devin jackson being a bit better and younger than Moss.
Comments
I think you are confusing the Eagles with the Raiders.
I agree..he's an upgrade obviously over Campbell but that team isn't just hurting at one position
I still think it is stupid to trade a guy in the division
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
if you're talking about me you obviously have not paid attention to anything i have said in this thread...or last year's thread...or the one before that...or the one before that....or the one before that. you get the picture.
obviously the end of the game heroics is the huge difference between the two.
but if you look at their stats for their first 11 years in the leageu they are earily similiar. mcnabb's completion percentage is actually 2 or 3% higher than elways. and that was my point in saying that shanahan is the absolute best coach for him at this point in their careers. they are similiar in that they both had cannons for arms, threw great deep balls, and were not the most accurage of passers. put don on a team that emphasizes the run, give him a pro bowl tight end, some young receivers, a stout defense, improve the o-line....then yes i think he has a shot at having similiar success that elway had at the end of his career.
i would think shanahan will wield some power down there.
yeah i think i did jumble up that line
cool. should i start posting comments from other nfl analysts, who did not lose their announcing jobs last year like baldinger, who feel otherwise?
lots of different opinions out there man.
agreed. the skins need some help like i mentioned. but don was at his best with a defense that keeps them in games even with sub par weapons on offense. now he has that same thing...just with a better coach. we should have shipped him out of the conference.
I would agree with you about mcnabb and a stout def if we were talkn about the Mcnabb from 3yrs ago or so. he's not the same qb anymore,he dosen't run he's scared to through a ball in a small window. He's so much a woe is me guy it makes me sick. His presser yesterday was about the biggiest joke i've heard in a long time. He is an excuse maker and a cry baby and for that i'm happy another organzation and fans will understand what we've seen the last 1-3yrs here. He's was an amazing qb here and i hope he one day makes it into the HOF.
well let's agree to disagree man. i am of the camp that wanted reid to go and would have extended mcnabb. he had solid year this year anyway you want to spin it. good quarterbacks in this league are few and far between. the good ones now play well into their late 30's. i am aware of mcnabb's faults. i'm also aware that reid never did him any favors by forcing him to drop back and pass 65% of the time. that's just ridiculous. i hope he doesnt do the same to kolb. don needs a coach like shanahan at this point in his career. i cannot stress that enough. shanahan is the one guy who can squeeze every ounce of talent out of him.
i think you know i am not one of those people (despite what pjhawks may think) that am quick to rip on the eagles. i consider myself to be pretty objective here, usually taking a wait and see attitude to the things they do. trading him now was smart. trading him a couple hours south to a division rival who has been looking for a quarterback since the early 80's was dumb.
gonna be an interesting year.
The Eagles and Cowboys have ended each others' seasons two years in a row.
And even though it's April, the players are doing their part in adding to the rivalry.
And we at MTC love it.
You'll remember that Cowboys linebacker Keith Brooking took a jab at the Birds last week.
"The way we dominated them, obviously [Donovan] McNabb didn’t play his best, but they were very predictable," Brooking said. "We knew exactly what was coming on every play. A lot of that didn’t have to do with Donovan McNabb."
Those words found their way to Eagles tight end Brent Celek, who responded on ESPN 103.3's Galloway and Company show.
"It kind of irked me a little bit," Celek said. "I don't think they knew exactly the plays that we were running, when we were running them. They played better than us in those games and I'll give them credit. They did do a good job. But for him to say that, I totally disagree with him. I'll tell ya what, I can't wait to play him next year."
Last year, Celek broke out with 76 catches for 971 yards and eight touchdowns. We saw a side of him we hadn't seen in his first two seasons in the league - dragging defenders along for extra yardage, showing emotion after picking up first downs, etc.
He was asked what he'll say to Brooking when the two teams meet.
"I can't say that on radio, guys," Celek said. "Every time we went down there, and you see him trying to get the crowd riled up on that big jumbotron, it just gets me going, so I can't wait to play him again."
Well, we know that Eagles-Cowboys is going to be fun. And we know that Eagles-Redskins is going to be fun. What about Eagles-Giants? That's going to be fun too. But more on that later.
Celek continued to back his buddy Kevin Kolb, saying the Eagles made the right move.
"They did the right thing," Celek said. "They got faith in Kolb, and I'll tell ya what, I think Kolb is gonna be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL in years to come. I hate hearing people say that we're rebuilding right now cause we got a lot of good players on our team and we're gonna win a lot of games this year.
"The people in the front office and coach Reid have seen Kevin's development over the last three years, and they feel it's time. And I'll tell ya what, a lot of guys on the team feel the exact same way. We're ready to rally behind him and get this thing going."
Jaegler - not talking about you at all but just in general terms of those who thought McNabb sucked. I've been a huge supporter of McNabb as you know on here but even I think it was time to go. Hard to trade a great QB but with a young QB in the last year of contract it had to be done. As usual with Andy Reid and this ownership group (just nutting who think these guys suck - remember Rich Kotite and Norman Braman people) this team will be fine.
like i said i am okay with trading him. i guess i just think more of mcnabb than others here because i think he's going to make the skins contenders over the next 3-4 years. i would have taken slightly less to ship him off to oakland or buffalo...
A great QB wasn't traded, a marginal one at best was traded. To call him great would be placing him in the like of Bradshaw, Montana, and Marino. He emulated none of them. He was a good QB who brought some life and status to Philly, but in his 10+ years he floundered over and over. This whole McNabb subject is going to go back and forth until the season starts and we see what Kolb does. If he does good, McNabb is forgotten about, if he does bad, then all we will hear about is the bad trade of McNabb and how we should have kept him. I know this is still fresh news and will be a good debate for a while, but at some point we have to move on and get on the Kolb Train and get Philly a Superbowl they deserve!
and I think shanahan is vastly overrated. he inherited a team that had arguably top 5 all time players at 3 different positions (elway, atwater, sharpe). he showed his true colors after elway retired by winning 1 playoff game in 11 years. again, he's an upgrade from jim zorn, but nothing to get worked up about.
the skins still only have 1 pick in the first 100 of a loaded draft. they may have marginally gotten better with the mcnabb trade, but they're still not a playoff team.
the eagles will be fine. they made a great trade that will improve their team. I have liked what they've done this offseason. they are well set up for a SB run in 2011 if they hit on some draft picks over the next couple of years
Funny to rip Donovan for not winning yet Marino is great? Again totally illogical Eagle fans - Marino won a hell of a lot less than Donovan did.
would you consider Elway great? Well Donovan's stats compare very favorably over their 1st 11 years. Donovan was a GREAT qb for the Eagles. I honestly don't get the 'floundering' part - the fn guy went to a Super Bowl and 5 NFC championships. Yes he didn't win one, but neither did Brian Dawkins, Brian Westboook etc. - yet for some reason Dawkins is revered and McNabb hated. McNabb had a hell of a lot more to do with 10 years of winning than Dawkins. I loved Dawk but he was average at best the last 3 years here and the defense is what choked against Arizona not McNabb.
I would love for the McNabb haters to list the QBs now and in the past 10 years that have been better than him - there are maybe 5-8 of them - being a Top 10 QB for a decade straight, yes I would consider him great. Hell right now I'd make the argument there are only 4 or 5 better than him today.
I wonder if most of the Eagle fans that truly don't think he is any good are the ones around 28 years old and younger - you know the ones that didn't have to sit through the endless parade of Randall Cunningham (talk about floundering...), Rodney Pette, 2 freakin Detmer's, Brad Goebel, Pat Ryan, and one-armed Jim McMahon, etc. - I've sat and watched average to bad QBs for the Eagles and throughout the rest of the league and this guy is and has been way better than average.
mcnabb did choke vs arizona...he left about 30 points on the field in the first half when there were dudes running around wide open and he couldn't hit them. and of course getting the ball down 7, 2 minutes left...but that's what he ALWAYS did in pressure spots. the defense was awful too, but the team should share the blame in that game. a great QB is supposed to have the ability to put his team on his shoulders in big games...mcnabb didn't do that against good teams
I honestly think kolb is better suited to run reid's offense than mcnabb is. if you take the offensive system out of the equation, there is no doubt that mcnabb is a superior athlete. but reid's offense is based on quick decisions and accurate throws, both of which are mcnabbs biggest deficiencies.
this argument could go on for months...it will be interesting to see how things play out. I for one, am glad this trade was made. I think the eagles did well
so did the redskins...and therein lies the problem peter.
should have shipped him to the raiders...even if it meant getting slightly less.
if a team gets better but still sucks does it really matter? I say no
that's like a fat chick losing 10 pounds when she needs to drop 50. she's still fat
raiders had a deal in place to ship us the 39th pick. i'm sure we could have finagled a 4th rounder next year as well. they were also multiple reports out there stating they didnt care if mcnabb did not sign an extension. they made a similar trade for richard seymore a year ago with the pats. they could have franchised mcnabb for '11 if they wanted to. or don could have spent a year there, waited for farve to retire next year and then go to the team he really wanted to go to: the vikings. in reality, mcnabb did not have any say in this at all---if the eagles didn't care about sending him to a better team. he does not have a no trade clause. and there is no way he would forfit 12 million dollars by sitting out a year. so that theory is incorrect.
agree about the marino comment though. he's one of the best to every play the game. he just could not get the job done in january.
don is a poor man's john elway at this point in his career though. i still stand by that. and i believe he has a a shot to be compared favorably with him when it is all said and done. people keep acting as if his career is over when we'll be seeing him twice a year for the next 3-5 years. long way to go for him.
you obviously don't understand my argument. i feel like i'm talking to my dog. stop pooping on my carpet man!
Can McNabb Succeed With Less Talent Around Him?
Donovan McNabb makes the Redskins a better football team without question. But how will McNabb perform with less talent? McNabb will find comfort in tight end Chris Cooley, who will quickly become his favorite target. However, the Redskins’ wide receivers pale in comparison to DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, and Jason Avant. Santana Moss is a deep threat, but he is old and isn’t the dynamic playmaker that Jackson is.
Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly are two former high draft picks that have shown very little so far.
The Redskins’ offensive line also has issues. Chris Samuels’ retirement leaves a large void at left tackle.
The right side is also weak with former Bills’ 1st round bust Mike Willams. Those weaknesses combined with McNabb’s diminished running skills will leave the Redskins struggling to protect McNabb.
The Redskins’ backfield is filled with aging veterans Clinton Portis, Willie Parker, and Larry Johnson, who have all seen their best days.
There’s no doubt that McNabb will help the Redskins. However, McNabb’s days of carrying an offense like he did early in his career are far behind him. With less to work with, McNabb may find the going tougher in Washington than in Philly.
But there is another factor: new head coach Mike Shanahan.
Shanahan has a history of working well with quarterbacks. The prime example of course is John Elway, who had a similar reputation as McNabb with respect to the “can’t win the big games” tag.
Shanahan took over for Dan Reeves, who was strikingly similar to Andy Reid, especially from a control perspective. Reeves controlled Elway like Reid controlled McNabb.
When Shanahan took over, he released the shackles on Elway and turned the “can’t win a big game bust” into a 2 time super bowl winner.
If Shanahan can manage McNabb slightly differently than the over-bearing Reid, he may unlock what we all think has been missing from McNabb.
There is no doubt this is the thinking Shanahan made when he decided to trade for McNabb. Shanahan sees the similarities between the 2 situations and thinks that he can be successful with McNabb just as he was with Elway.
The telling moments will be how McNabb performs under pressure situations, like the 2 minute drill. If we see something like McNabb throwing 2 yard passes with 7 seconds left on the clock, then we will know it was probably McNabb who was at fault.
But if we see McNabb perform well under those circumstances after being “freed” by Shanahan, then we will know it was Reid and his slow in-game decision making that was at fault.
If there is a marked difference in McNabb’s performance under pressure situations, this trade would be considered a disaster for the Eagles. Not only because McNabb would prove that he wasn’t the problem, but because the problem would have been Reid all along, and Reid happens to still be with the team.
That would also mean that Kevin Kolb is likely to suffer the same fate as McNabb, ever struggling with clock management issues, and strange play calls from the sidelines with no play clock time left to react to on-the-field situations other than running the play called.
For those who always wanted to know whether the problem was McNabb or Reid, the stage is set perfectly to get your answer.
Don't forget 4000 yds over 2 years from Terrel Davis.
Don't most Philly fans dig this trade? From my outside perspective, it makes sense either way. If they think Kolb is the future and ready may as well get the ball rolling. They obviously think they'll at least be as well of with him.
It woulda been smarter,imo to not trade him in the division, for the sole reason that McNabb is gonna get hyped up for 6-10 Philly games over the next few years and that could have a strong hand in their playoff chances.
thats my only issue. we were at the point that we needed to move on. but we also solved a 25 year old problem for our rival in the process....
Not all great QBs win the Superbowl and I think Dan Marino and perhaps even Jim Kelly are prime examples. McNabb just did not possess "greatness." Marino did. I for one am not a McNabb hater, I love the guy. Hell I even went to SU with him. But I'm not going to cry in my beer all day about Philly letting him go. It was the right decision and we all saw it coming the day we brought on Vick.
Also, those Eagles receivers had a good qb throwing to them. I bet the Redskins receiving corps can do just as good, with the exception of Devin jackson being a bit better and younger than Moss.
you'll be surprised how accurate kolb is.
go back to your cowboys thread...lotta action in that right now. oh, wait...